Jump to content
s3ri0us

Earth/Storm build?

Recommended Posts

Spoiler

2019-09-07 16:50:22 You turn the ground into Quicksand!
2019-09-07 16:50:22 Quicksand:  HIT Elite Security Agent! Your Quicksand power is autohit.
2019-09-07 16:50:22 Quicksand:  Your target takes 183.35 points of bonus smashing damage!
2019-09-07 16:50:22 [NPC] Elite Security Agent: Neutralize the hero threat!
2019-09-07 16:50:23 Mob Specialist MISSES! Submachine Gun power had a 5.00% chance to hit, but rolled a 29.31.
2019-09-07 16:50:24 Riot Guard MISSES! Automatic Pistol power had a 5.00% chance to hit, but rolled a 22.50.
2019-09-07 16:50:24 Special Agent Infiltrator HITS you! Automatic Pistol power had a 5.75% chance to hit and rolled a 5.60.
2019-09-07 16:50:24 Riot Guard MISSES! Automatic Pistol power had a 5.00% chance to hit, but rolled a 58.45.
2019-09-07 16:50:24 Special Agent Infiltrator shoots you for 0.62 points of damage!
2019-09-07 16:50:25 Elite Security Agent HITS you! Adv Assault Rifle power had a 6.90% chance to hit and rolled a 5.10.
2019-09-07 16:50:25 Elite Security Agent rattles you with his Adv Assault Rifle for 0.98 points of lethal damage and slightly lowers your defense!
2019-09-07 16:50:27 Special Agent Infiltrator MISSES! Crane Kick power had a 6.33% chance to hit, but rolled a 76.87.
2019-09-07 16:50:32 Quicksand:  Your target takes 183.35 points of bonus smashing damage!

Proc once placed and proced again.

1 application of quicksand Vs 5 crey

Looks to be 10 secs apart

Quicksand 1 recharge 1 impeaded swiftness proc no Incarnate.

Edited by Chelsea Rorec

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Spoiler

2019-09-07 17:00:53 You turn the ground into Quicksand!

2019-09-07 17:01:11 Quicksand is recharged.
2019-09-07 17:01:24 Quicksand:  Your target takes 137.51 points of bonus smashing damage!
2019-09-07 17:01:25 Tank Smasher MISSES! Tank Grenade power had a 6.50% chance to hit, but rolled a 58.49.
2019-09-07 17:01:33 Quicksand:  Your target takes 137.51 points of bonus smashing damage!
2019-09-07 17:01:43 Tank Smasher MISSES! Tank Grenade power had a 6.50% chance to hit, but rolled a 24.22.

1 Quicksand V 1 Tank Smasher proc twice.

Quicksand 1 recharge 1 impeaded swiftness proc

Edited by Chelsea Rorec

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Bopper said:

@Chelsea Rorec can you edit your posts and add in how each power was slotted (procs and regular enhancements), and also what incarnate alpha is slotted? I want to do my due diligence when looking over your logs.

Quicksand is 1 recharge 1 Impeaded swiftness proc lvl 30.

My toon has no Incarnate slots and is lvl 46

And if i can help out anymore i would be only glad to.

Edited by Chelsea Rorec

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Chelsea Rorec said:
  Hide contents

2019-09-07 16:50:22 You turn the ground into Quicksand!
2019-09-07 16:50:22 Quicksand:  HIT Elite Security Agent! Your Quicksand power is autohit.
2019-09-07 16:50:22 Quicksand:  Your target takes 183.35 points of bonus smashing damage!
2019-09-07 16:50:22 [NPC] Elite Security Agent: Neutralize the hero threat!
2019-09-07 16:50:23 Mob Specialist MISSES! Submachine Gun power had a 5.00% chance to hit, but rolled a 29.31.
2019-09-07 16:50:24 Riot Guard MISSES! Automatic Pistol power had a 5.00% chance to hit, but rolled a 22.50.
2019-09-07 16:50:24 Special Agent Infiltrator HITS you! Automatic Pistol power had a 5.75% chance to hit and rolled a 5.60.
2019-09-07 16:50:24 Riot Guard MISSES! Automatic Pistol power had a 5.00% chance to hit, but rolled a 58.45.
2019-09-07 16:50:24 Special Agent Infiltrator shoots you for 0.62 points of damage!
2019-09-07 16:50:25 Elite Security Agent HITS you! Adv Assault Rifle power had a 6.90% chance to hit and rolled a 5.10.
2019-09-07 16:50:25 Elite Security Agent rattles you with his Adv Assault Rifle for 0.98 points of lethal damage and slightly lowers your defense!
2019-09-07 16:50:27 Special Agent Infiltrator MISSES! Crane Kick power had a 6.33% chance to hit, but rolled a 76.87.
2019-09-07 16:50:32 Quicksand:  Your target takes 183.35 points of bonus smashing damage!

Proc once placed and proced again.

1 application of quicksand Vs 5 crey

Looks to be 10 secs apart

I only see 10 seconds of log. Quicksand I believe last for 45 seconds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Bopper said:

I only see 10 seconds of log. Quicksand I believe last for 45 seconds.

after i removed the guff that was all the activity of quicksand.

plus it dosn't say when it ends

Edited by Chelsea Rorec

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Chelsea Rorec said:

after i removed the guff that was all the activity of quicksand.

Ok, sounds good. So you collected 30 samples here. There were 5 opportunities for each of 5 Crey in your first test, and 5 opportunities for the Tank Smasher. Of these 30 opportunities, you got  4 procs (13.33%). This falls right in line with expected, as the formula for pseudopets with a 25 foot radius would have a 15.3% probability to proc. Now, I won't make conclusions with a small sample size, but so far it looks like everything is working like normal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Bopper said:

Ok, sounds good. So you collected 30 samples here. There were 5 opportunities for each of 5 Crey in your first test, and 5 opportunities for the Tank Smasher. Of these 30 opportunities, you got  4 procs (13.33%). This falls right in line with expected, as the formula for pseudopets with a 25 foot radius would have a 15.3% probability to proc. Now, I won't make conclusions with a small sample size, but so far it looks like everything is working like normal.

I'm just glad it IS working 🙂

My whole build is built around large mobs and herding so that % will increase with larger mobs sizes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Ok, sounds good. So you collected 30 samples here. There were 5 opportunities for each of 5 Crey in your first test, and 5 opportunities for the Tank Smasher. Of these 30 opportunities, you got  4 procs (13.33%). This falls right in line with expected, as the formula for pseudopets with a 25 foot radius would have a 15.3% probability to proc. Now, I won't make conclusions with a small sample size, but so far it looks like everything is working like normal.

My next question is does the +recharge proc still work with pseudopets and does it stack ? RE: Lightning storm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Chelsea Rorec said:

I'm just glad it IS working 🙂

My whole build is built around large mobs and herding so that % will increase with larger mobs sizes.

The percentage won't increase, but the number of procs will increase. Think of it this way, assuming the targets don't run out of the quicksand, and the fight lasts for at least 45 seconds, then you can expect each target in the quicksand to have 5 attempts at getting hit with the proc (which has a 15% chance of hitting). The probability of missing every time on a target is 43.6%, so your probability of hitting the target at least once is 56.4%. It's not bad. It's not game breaking. 

 

For what it's worth, I use 4 procs in my Distortion Field, which lasts for 45 seconds also, but has only a 20 foot radius (so higher probability to proc). I get very good production out of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Chelsea Rorec said:

My next question is does the +recharge proc still work with pseudopets and does it stack ? RE: Lightning storm

I haven't tested it, but there is a /Storm Summoning thread in the defender section that I believe has your answers. As for stacking, it won't, but it should/could refresh the duration of the +Recharge

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Bopper said:

The percentage won't increase, but the number of procs will increase. Think of it this way, assuming the targets don't run out of the quicksand, and the fight lasts for at least 45 seconds, then you can expect each target in the quicksand to have 5 attempts at getting hit with the proc (which has a 15% chance of hitting). The probability of missing every time on a target is 43.6%, so your probability of hitting the target at least once is 56.4%. It's not bad. It's not game breaking. 

 

For what it's worth, I use 4 procs in my Distortion Field, which lasts for 45 seconds also, but has only a 20 foot radius (so higher probability to proc). I get very good production out of it.

my whole game plan is use 4 powers with 12 procs and kill the mob i herded and throw in other stuff if needed.

It does work.

From what i've read +recharge proc works better in AoE powers not single target like Lightning storm.

Edited by Chelsea Rorec

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Chelsea Rorec said:

my whole game plan is use 4 powers with 12 procs and kill the mob i herded and throw in other stuff if needed.

It does work.

From what i've read +recharge proc works better in AoE powers not single target like Lightning storm.

That's because you are giving the FF proc more opportunities to trigger in AoE powers. You only need it to proc once, since there is no stack. So even though there is a degrade to your probability to proc on each target due to the Area Factor of the attack, that degrade will get offset if you can hit 3 or more targets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Bopper said:

That's because you are giving the FF proc more opportunities to trigger in AoE powers. You only need it to proc once, since there is no stack. So even though there is a degrade to your probability to proc on each target due to the Area Factor of the attack, that degrade will get offset if you can hit 3 or more targets.

Yep that is what i figured.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/6/2019 at 9:15 PM, Sir Myshkin said:

You should take a closer look at what Avilister is working towards. Your build sacrifices a ton of opportunity and doesn't have nearly the same level of damage capability. All those procs you have committed to Freezing Rain and Earthquake, as the game currently stands, are doing (basically) nothing. It's a fault of the game algorithm on rain type powers, and the patch abilities like earthquake, ice slick, and quicksand. You'd also get a lot of extra mileage out of your Storm abilities by getting a few Force Feedback +Rech procs in the build too.

 

Build higher global recharge bonuses and take your excess recharge enhancements out of your abilities and you'll get a significant increase in proc performance as well. That extra enhancement lowers your probability and negatively impacts anything with a 30/s or lower base recharge. Seismic Smash, when set up as a fully loaded Proc power, will hit for 500 points on its own. It's all about global bonuses, boosted ToHit to offset slotting limitations, and loading up on Procs. Controllers get a lot of mileage out of it.

So to clarify in my build.

Quicksand is Proc'ing twice.

Freezing rain is proc'ing ALOT.

Earth quake is also proc'ing.

Volcanic Gases is proc'ing

 

There is evidence of all of this in the combat logs posted and the tests with Bopper.

So my question is if all of the above is correct why is nobody taking advantage of all these facts except me ?

 

Quote

All those procs you have committed to Freezing Rain and Earthquake, as the game currently stands, are doing (basically) nothing.

I really hope these tests have changed your mind about what is actually going on with earth powers and you atleast think about slotting some procs in those powers because i really enjoy my build and like i've said before it's fantastic for herding and destroying large mobs.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Chelsea Rorec said:

So my question is if all of the above is correct why is nobody taking advantage of all these facts except me ?

 

Because, on each activation, the chance to proc is 18% or so for Freezing Rain... which adds about 13 damage to the power, per IO. So, 3 slots into FR with damage IOs have you do 36 damage with it, on the average, per target at level 50. And another 36, 10 seconds later. I think it also does 25 damage base, so you COULD slot it up for about 40 damage with Damage/Recharge plus another 2x38 from procs. But that only puts you at 116 AoE damage.

 

Now, 116 is really NOT bad damage for a power whose main purpose is a lot of debuffing. But that's because the power does a bit of damage on its own... Earthquake doesn't have that, and can't put as many IOs, for example. So you end up with multiple AoE powers all at less than 120 damage and all with pretty long recharges. With enough of them plus your own Epic AoE attacks, you actually can manage to do some reasonable AoE damage... but it's a LOT less than other AoE damage options even when just looking at Controllers (See my Dark/Poison thread for an example). So people who are making builds for AoE damage are really not going to look at this type and level of damage, and people who are teaming aren't going to bother spending slots on relatively weak DoT damage when in a team spawns melt too fast.

 

So in the end, what you're doing works, but a min-maxer will likely look at better AoE options.

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Coyote said:

So in the end, what you're doing works,

That's what she's been trying to say all this time tbh, as far as I have read, she never claimed this to be the best option and quite frankly, your Dark/Poison thread is kinda irrelevant since this whole thread is about an earth/storm build. Are there better options with other Controller powersets? probably, same way I am sure there better AoE options with other ATs, in the end, she suggested an earth/storm build that works, as you just admitted, anything else beyond that is sort of irrelevant and sometimes seems even petty.

Edited by Nightmarer
Typos, typos everywhere
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Coyote said:

 

Because, on each activation, the chance to proc is 18% or so for Freezing Rain... which adds about 13 damage to the power, per IO. So, 3 slots into FR with damage IOs have you do 36 damage with it, on the average, per target at level 50. And another 36, 10 seconds later. I think it also does 25 damage base, so you COULD slot it up for about 40 damage with Damage/Recharge plus another 2x38 from procs. But that only puts you at 116 AoE damage.

 

Now, 116 is really NOT bad damage for a power whose main purpose is a lot of debuffing. But that's because the power does a bit of damage on its own... Earthquake doesn't have that, and can't put as many IOs, for example. So you end up with multiple AoE powers all at less than 120 damage and all with pretty long recharges. With enough of them plus your own Epic AoE attacks, you actually can manage to do some reasonable AoE damage... but it's a LOT less than other AoE damage options even when just looking at Controllers (See my Dark/Poison thread for an example). So people who are making builds for AoE damage are really not going to look at this type and level of damage, and people who are teaming aren't going to bother spending slots on relatively weak DoT damage when in a team spawns melt too fast.

 

So in the end, what you're doing works, but a min-maxer will likely look at better AoE options.

Go back and look at the combat log because i'm pretty sure there is 1911 damage on that log from freezing rain.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Nightmarer said:

That's what she's been trying to say all this time tbh, as far as I have read, she never claimed this to be the best option and quite frankly, your Dark/Poison thread is kinda irrelevant since this whole thread is about an earth/storm build. Are there better options with other Controller powersets? probably, same way I am sure there betetr AoE options with other ATs, in the end, she suggested an earth/storm build that works, as yo just admitted, anything else beyond that is sort of irrelevant and sometimes seems even petty.

 

Ugh, don't be petty. I didn't say a word against her options or design. She just asked "why isn't anyone else doing this", and I answered exactly and only that question. To be honest, I didn't really examine her build so I could even have an opinion on it overall. I only answered "why would someone who knows about damage procs, NOT be using them in AoE rains when you can do AoE damage with them?". And I think my answer was pretty fair and reasonable, and explains why other people aren't doing this... but I never said that she's wrong to be doing it. I can see reasons why you might try to shoehorn a build into a role that doesn't fit it very well, if you don't like making too many alts.

 

Remember this: CoH is easy, so "a build that works", when giving advice on the forums, is a very low bar. When we're discussing builds, usually the discussion is focused towards min-maxing the builds in some way, because otherwise there are just so many "play as you would like" options. So when people suggest changes for builds, it's usually not in the context of "you need to do this to succeed", but more like "you'll do more damage (or have more defense, or whatever) if you do this, but if you are fine with your build, then that works too".

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Chelsea Rorec said:

Go back and look at the combat log because i'm pretty sure there is 1911 damage on that log from freezing rain.

 

Did you ever say what level those mobs were? I figured that they had to be lower level, since you're doing 200+ damage, using procs that are listed as doing 71 damage base.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Coyote said:

 

Ugh, don't be petty. I didn't say a word against her options or design. She just asked "why isn't anyone else doing this", and I answered exactly and only that question. To be honest, I didn't really examine her build so I could even have an opinion on it overall. I only answered "why would someone who knows about damage procs, NOT be using them in AoE rains when you can do AoE damage with them?". And I think my answer was pretty fair and reasonable, and explains why other people aren't doing this... but I never said that she's wrong to be doing it. I can see reasons why you might try to shoehorn a build into a role that doesn't fit it very well, if you don't like making too many alts.

 

Remember this: CoH is easy, so "a build that works", when giving advice on the forums, is a very low bar. When we're discussing builds, usually the discussion is focused towards min-maxing the builds in some way, because otherwise there are just so many "play as you would like" options. So when people suggest changes for builds, it's usually not in the context of "you need to do this to succeed", but more like "you'll do more damage (or have more defense, or whatever) if you do this, but if you are fine with your build, then that works too".

So, now you are not only patronizing but also admitting you could not be arsed to check her build before contradicting her over and over again. Also, you are assuming that, uaual advice is a low bar and the discussions on a build are always about min/maxing when all OP asked for was a solid build. This looks to me like you are getting too much assumptions from your own rear and flag them around as if they were some sort of an absolute truth. And to top it  someone who took the name of a player who sadly passed away is calling me petty. I'd better stop derailing this thread more than I have already, have it your way dude.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Coyote said:

 

Did you ever say what level those mobs were? I figured that they had to be lower level, since you're doing 200+ damage, using procs that are listed as doing 71 damage base.

I think thats irrelevant what is relevent is they are proc'ing more than once so are doing more damage than you are stating.

Slotting it for procs get you more damage than slotting for damage.

Even mids agrees with me (25 dmg with dam mods Vs 347dam with procs) and this is IF it procs once which it isn't. It's proc'ing TWICE.

 

If this dosn't satisfy i will GLADLY supply more logs to show you what is REALLY going on.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Chelsea Rorec said:

I think thats irrelevant what is relevent is they are proc'ing more than once so are doing more damage than you are stating.

Slotting it for procs get you more damage than slotting for damage.

Even mids agrees with me (25 dmg with dam mods Vs 347dam with procs) and this is IF it procs once which it isn't. It's proc'ing TWICE.

 

If this dosn't satisfy i will GLADLY supply more logs to show you what is REALLY going on.

Also don't forget the -res which makes the procs do more damage.

I just had a proc damage for 91.

That's a bit more than your stated 71.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mean lets face it when i place all my powers (quicksand,earth quake,volcanic gases,freezing rain) i have 12 procs firing killing stuff and that's even before i've touched the storm powers or any other powers.

I can throw in stalagmites which is 1 more proc or stone cages which is 3 more (yes i've seen procs firing on cages).

All on powers that don't really do a lot of damage themselves.

most stuff dies but sometimes you have stubbon bosses which requires other storm powers or seismic smash.

 

Seems to me Coyote that you are fixed on your idea of a earth/storm and are really close minded to new idea's and try and beat down anyone who brings something new to the table but thats how progress is made.

Someone standing up and saying "hey have you tried this" and bringing proof to the ney sayers.

I'll bring more logs or better still come with me on a mission and see for yourself.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...