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Frosticus

Poison sucks.... right?

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Every day you hear people saying how badly poison performs. Heck I'm even guilty of it in the past.

It definitely has a lot of skippable powers. I'd only take 3-4 powers from it if I could (defender could), but those 3 powers are very impressive in what they do.

 

It's funny because people praise storm based on 4 powers (steamy, freezing, LS, nado). They praise the power of cold with only 4 powers (fog, benumb, sleet, HL). The reality is, procs take poison from being meh, to one of the strongest sets available. The term proc monster gets thrown around a lot, this set is the real deal.

 

Anyway:

Envenom: 30% -res/def on target, 15% -res/def 8ft aoe. This sounds like a reasonably decent power. It procs at 67% on 3 procs, with a pretty fast cast time. That makes it a great power.

Poison Trap: this is a goddam nuke with aoe hold. It actually recharges fast enough to use every spawn (60 sec base) even on fast teams. If you like procs and you want to build a "proc monster" this is the best proc power in the game bar none. 

Venomous Gas: Probably the best power in the game that requires no slotting. 15ft aoe autohit -res/def/dam/tohit. All with respectable values, with the -res being the star.

*Weaken: I don't use weaken, because it doesn't make me clear things faster, but it is actually a great power. 

*Paralytic: fires off 4 procs regularly. As good as any power like this

 

You need to dedicate !!8!! additional enhancement slots to become an offensive powerhouse. If you care about return on investment, I can't think of a better combo.

 

I look at poison as an offensive set, so I generally compare it to the king of offence - storm

I've done storm. I posted about my demon/storm in the pylon thread. It is unreal. Insane even.  I'm telling you that poison brings as much or more to team efficiency than storm. It solo's spawns as fast or faster thanks to poison trap nuke and has enough mitigation between venomous gas and poison trap to tackle a lot of content. It however, does not bring as much single target damage as a storm potentially can. But, it is considerably safer than storm vs an AV*

 

*Most people don't understand how -dam debuff works. Between weaken and venomous you apply 30% -dam. This is then multiplied by the -res. Envenom and Gas apply -48.75. Envenom procs achilies and poison trap procs fury of glad at a very high rate. So anywhere from -48.75 to -88.75 resistance debuff.  Which turns the 30% -dam up to 44.6%-56.6%. Weaken also debuffs a lot of behind the scenes mechanics overall making most enemies much more manageable. This is a pretty noticeable impact against +2 AV's. It starts to taper off higher than that.

 

How I roll

plant/poison/stone, which beyond being extremely fun and packed full of synergy, is maybe the most thematic character I've ever made (really nice for me as I'm typically a power gamer). Plant was originally designed as a villain set. If you read the power descriptions it isn't "nice" and "fluffy". Carrion creepers literally feeds off of slain foes. So poison fits the mould of plant super well to me at least. 

 

Plant is ridiculous. You don't even need a secondary to make a good plant character, so a lot what this build achieves is either due to plant and the potent synergies between plant and poison. So ymmv. Stone epic takes procs and runs with them as well or better than any epic set.

 

Performance: So how bout some performance metrics?

I don't have videos for you, but I'll post you my build so if you too are a reasonably skilled player you can expect great results.

Farm: I clear the comic con s/l space map at +4 w/ bosses in less than 6 mins consistently. The build isn't completed yet. I think it will get down in the 5.5 avg range with a judgement power and lore used over time. I haven't died on it in the last 20 or so clears. So the build is pretty stable. It is a snooze fest at +3, but requires active playing at +4. I might make an insp combining macro cause all i do it just use the drops as they come now.

Pylons: I take down pylons without insp/temps/etc (scrapper rules) in 2:50-3:30 consistently (310-350 dps due to proc variance). The build has no pets cause outside of MM's and a few unique troller pets (PA and haunt) I personally think pets are a waste. Surviving the pylon is a non issue for the build.

 

Build is intended for 45+ content. Perma hasten, capped hp when you fight, proc damage thru the roof.  Use your second build slot for low level play. 

 

 

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Good job!

 

Build was glitched for me; Incarnate stuff showing up in level 2 and 4 power picks.

 

Regardless I noticed you dumped the Purple Set Sleep Proc. Is it pure $#!+@? I am interested in abusing placate mechanics, what are your thoughts about this proc?


 


-Main Controllers-

Dark/Time/Primal   Earth/Thermal/Ice   Electric/Poison/Mu   Fire/Dark/Fire   Gravity/Kin/Mace   Ice/Rad/Ice   Illusion/Traps/Mace   Mind/TA/Psionic   Plant/Storm/Ice


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22 minutes ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

Good job!

 

Build was glitched for me; Incarnate stuff showing up in level 2 and 4 power picks.

 

Regardless I noticed you dumped the Purple Set Sleep Proc. Is it pure $#!+@? I am interested in abusing placate mechanics, what are your thoughts about this proc?

Honestly I have never used the sleep power. I just have it for the set bonuses. I tend to play very aggressively and there is so much dot damage going  off all over the place that the sleep doesnt do much for me. So I cant tell you about placate. I can try and it out though and see what happens. 

 

Incarnates are nerve alpha so I can 4-6 slot procs without giving up any meaningful enhancement value.

Melee hybrid cause that's where I'm usually playing and it provides significant bonuses.

Ageless because global rech is ftw with procs and I've sacrificed so many set bonuses to maximize procs that I need it for my long cool down powers. also endurance.

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37 minutes ago, Frosticus said:

I can try and it out though and see what happens. 

Don't on my behalf. Its a Mag 2 Placate so only Louies and below. Its more of a curiosity on my part. I imagine placate in general is a pain on controllers especially if your abilities have lots of DoT or lingering effects.

Edited by 5099y_74c05

 


-Main Controllers-

Dark/Time/Primal   Earth/Thermal/Ice   Electric/Poison/Mu   Fire/Dark/Fire   Gravity/Kin/Mace   Ice/Rad/Ice   Illusion/Traps/Mace   Mind/TA/Psionic   Plant/Storm/Ice


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I'll try it out. I like knowing things. I was just pondering  if it would let me pull more mobs into my death zone as you can only aggro so many on the map.

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1 hour ago, Frosticus said:

I'll try it out. I like knowing things. I was just pondering  if it would let me pull more mobs into my death zone as you can only aggro so many on the map.

I like this thinking 😉


 


-Main Controllers-

Dark/Time/Primal   Earth/Thermal/Ice   Electric/Poison/Mu   Fire/Dark/Fire   Gravity/Kin/Mace   Ice/Rad/Ice   Illusion/Traps/Mace   Mind/TA/Psionic   Plant/Storm/Ice


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I'm all for fun and concept. The few times I said Poison isn't that good is when people say it's amazing, purely based on the numbers they see on Mids. To them, I reply saying other sets do what Poison does, only better. And then I add that Poison doesn't have anything really unique to the set except for the splashing mechanic - that I firmly believe needs some tweaking. So, in a nutshell, I feel the same about Poison than I do about FF or TA. Each of these sets need a slight rework to make them great alternatives and bring more variety to the game.

 

Now, the great thing about Homecoming is that procs can turn most "OK" sets into something much better. Hell, my Sonic/Beam is one of my favorite characters, mostly because of Procs and how they make my toon so much more interesting and active.

 

As you say, Plant/Anything is bound to perform well just because of Plant alone. May I ask if you use Seeds on your farm clears?

 

Great job, anyway and I'm glad you have found another fun character to play with!


Inverno - Ice/Ice Tanker

Stone Arrow - Earth/TA Troller

Timeless Record - Time/Sonic Defender

 

Excelsior

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Thanks for posting this. My little Poison/Beam defender is only 40 but I see the end potential. 

 

One little aspect you might have overlooked is that Poison Trap can actually be made perma. Not sure how practical that actually is but just the thought of a perma hold 25' radius patch that does like 300 pts of damage is just awesome. 

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44 minutes ago, Ankhammon said:

Thanks for posting this. My little Poison/Beam defender is only 40 but I see the end potential. 

 

One little aspect you might have overlooked is that Poison Trap can actually be made perma. Not sure how practical that actually is but just the thought of a perma hold 25' radius patch that does like 300 pts of damage is just awesome. 

A fun little proc for poison trap is the lockdown +2. It procs at a high rate and lets you aoe hold some of the bosses in the group for a short duration. It may be worth considering for a defender and some trollers. 

 

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9 hours ago, Falsey said:

Great job, anyway and I'm glad you have found another fun character to play with!

Me too! as this is ultimately the only important goal.

I know you arent implying this as you state your fondness of procs,  but my frame of mind is that the PPM system is here to stay. Get on board or get out of the way Haha.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say poison IS amazing. It is not amazing at all things, but if you can overcome its deficiencies it is the best at what it excels at. 

 

Team clear speeds (not counting kinetics). It stands out above storm and TA in this regard. Pretty far above honestly. 

 

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Don't know if you are following the other proc thread but have you noticed any specific proc order in your logs to answer this?

 

Quote

Yes. So a power is slotted with procs A, B, and C in that slot order. What order are the procs checked in? Really I am more interested in what order are their effects applied? One example where order may matter, if you have a -RES proc, you would want this proc to fire first before the damage procs go off.

 

 


 


-Main Controllers-

Dark/Time/Primal   Earth/Thermal/Ice   Electric/Poison/Mu   Fire/Dark/Fire   Gravity/Kin/Mace   Ice/Rad/Ice   Illusion/Traps/Mace   Mind/TA/Psionic   Plant/Storm/Ice


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8 hours ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

Don't know if you are following the other proc thread but have you noticed any specific proc order in your logs to answer this?

 

 

 

In short, no. I explained why as I understand how the -res procs work, but that understanding is admittedly from 10 ish yrs ago 🙂

 

I'll share an interesting thing about poison trap though. It can "critical" and hit the same target twice with the same proc. Initially I thought it was the hold detonation combining with the 2% hold gas chance but I've seen my aoe damage procs double hit. ie armageddon fire damage. 

I still think that's what it is but it seems to roll all the procs. So the critical while rare is not unseen.

 

kinda neat.

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19 hours ago, Falsey said:

 

As you say, Plant/Anything is bound to perform well just because of Plant alone. May I ask if you use Seeds on your farm clears?

Yes, but with a caveat.

 

I dont *need* to use it and as such i dont use it all that much. I fire it into the intial convergence point while I get the kill zone set up and to get some quick kills for creepers to spawn from.   Once creepers are at work and my tree is down I'm very stable. 

 

I'll use it more when my melee hybrid drops as I can get a bit unstable then. and I use it on the last couple roving spawns that I can never seem to pull over to my death zone just to more rapidly clear them. 

 

I dunno, I had no intention of it being a decent farmer and it definitely cant hang with the big boys but it keeps me busy between TFs and with enough inf to go out on the town 🙂

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How would you slot this out lower level? I'm not interested in playing at 45+ but envenom comes immediately. Would you immediately six slot envenom to put procs in it?

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7 hours ago, Gentoo said:

How would you slot this out lower level? I'm not interested in playing at 45+ but envenom comes immediately. Would you immediately six slot envenom to put procs in it?

6? nah. 4-5 slots by lvl 21 depending on how much acc you slot. 1-2 acc, 3 procs

you can get as many damage procs into poison trap as you are able to right away. It doesn't need purples. 

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On 8/25/2019 at 6:29 PM, Frosticus said:

Envenom: 30% -res/def on target, 15% -res/def 8ft aoe. This sounds like a reasonably decent power. It procs at 67% on 3 procs, with a pretty fast cast time. That makes it a great power.

How do you have Envenom slotted?   The build you posted has incarnate powers loaded in it's place.    

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I've been trying this build - got to 37 with a few of the cheaper procs slotted.  

 

Not rolled a 'troller since the old CoH so I don't have much to compare with.  I have to say this is a fun build, Plant seems pretty powerful anyway.  

 

Being a wimp I have been soloing -1 +8 maps with double XP to make up the difference.  Walk up, to a mob, throw Spores, pop down a Poison Trap, chuck Seeds of Confusion, then the AoE Immob (can't remember name)  Chaos ensues.   I then lurk around the edge, throwing in some holds and envenom into lieutenants which fire off pleasing random proc damage.    It's the sort of build you find yourself looking for big mobs to play with.  Cheers for the Build - it ain't cheap, but it is fun :D

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Hmm. I have a plant/poison as one of my two 50 controllers...and I play him completely differently than this, so this is cool to see.  I think I might spin up his second build as a copy of yours and see how that feels.  Just in case I want a 4th or 5th option for farming... :P.

 

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So I built this character and am a few slots off completing it, I can't manage to get through a fight or two without going through the entire END bar.

 

How are you managing that?

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On 9/14/2019 at 12:35 PM, ozob said:

So I built this character and am a few slots off completing it, I can't manage to get through a fight or two without going through the entire END bar.

 

How are you managing that?

Pre incarnates?

Same as more or less any build without end recovery tools. 

miracle, numi, panacea 

perf shifter

strive for set bonuses that give +end

slot for end reduction 

And refrain from spamming seismic smash haha

 

For incarnates I rushed ageless cause it makes endurance almost meaningless at t4

 

 

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I'm looking at the build you posted, and that's what I have been working too.  So that makes sense.  You don't really manage end until Ageless is a thing.  So that's a respec build after getting incarnates slotted in and up.  Okay, I was wondering because I struggle to do much of anything even with the slots in stamina and such.  I even tweaked the build to give a little more recovery too 🙂

So do you have a build you used BEFORE you had T4?  I love the proc concept, and you are right the damage output is through the roof, but without that T4 it's... really difficult to use.

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Yah basically you'd want to eliminate a proc in each power and put in some type of end reducer before you have ageless. Pre nerve you could drop another and go with a couple acc/end. that would sort it out in conjunction with the health uniques and perf shifter.

 

I don't have a pre incarnate build handy. I just take whatever seems fun and/or useful in a team. The focus of this build is to utilize incarnates in the most transformative way possible (by eliminating the need for acc and endurance)

Once I had venomous gas and my rock shield is when the character started to feel really good. Nothing wrong with it prior to that, but those two powers made me much more confident and solid in most situations. While leveling I only made sure that seeds and poison trap were proc'd. And of course my st hold and an achilies in envenom. Seeds is a solid aoe attack with procs and PT is still great with like 4 procs. It is nuts with 6 (3 of which are purple) ha. 

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try this one

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.1
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Plant Control
Secondary Power Set: Poison
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Stone Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Strangler -- Apc-Dam%(A), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(5), NrnSht-Dam%(5), GldJvl-Dam%(11), GldNet-Dam%(13), Apc-Dmg(25)
Level 1: Alkaloid -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Envenom -- ShlBrk-%Dam(A), TchofLadG-%Dam(3), AchHee-ResDeb%(3)
Level 4: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 6: Roots -- TraoftheH-Dam%(A), PstBls-Dam%(7), JvlVll-Dam%(7), Ann-ResDeb%(15), Rgn-Dmg(21)
Level 8: Seeds of Confusion -- MlsIll-Dam%(A), SprOvrPrs-Rchg/Energy Font(9), CrcPrs-Conf%(9), Ccp-Dam%(13)
Level 10: Super Jump -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 12: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(15)
Level 16: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(17), RedFrt-Def(17), RedFrt-EndRdx(19), RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg(19), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(21)
Level 18: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(23), RedFrt-Def(48), RedFrt-EndRdx(50), RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg(50), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 20: Tactics -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 22: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 24: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-ResDam%(33), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(37)
Level 26: Carrion Creepers -- Ann-ResDeb%(A), JvlVll-Dam%(27), PstBls-Dam%(27), ExpStr-Dam%(29), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(29), ImpSwf-Dam%(33)
Level 28: Paralytic Poison -- GldNet-Dam%(A), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(33), NrnSht-Dam%(43), Lck-%Hold(46)
Level 30: Spirit Tree -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(31), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(31), Prv-Heal/Rchg(31), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(40), Prv-Absorb%(48)
Level 32: Spore Burst -- FrtHyp-Sleep(A), FrtHyp-Sleep/Rchg(34), FrtHyp-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(34), FrtHyp-Acc/Rchg(34), FrtHyp-Sleep/EndRdx(48)
Level 35: Poison Trap -- SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(A), UnbCns-Dam%(36), Arm-Dam%(36), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(36), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(37), Erd-%Dam(37)
Level 38: Fissure -- JvlVll-Dam%(A), PstBls-Dam%(39), ExpStr-Dam%(39), FrcFdb-Rechg%(39), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(40), Ann-ResDeb%(40)
Level 41: Seismic Smash -- Hct-Dam%(A), Mk'Bit-Dam%(42), TchofDth-Dam%(42), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(42), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(43), Hct-Dmg(43)
Level 44: Rock Armor -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def(45), RedFrt-EndRdx(45), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(45), RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg(46), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 47: Venomous Gas -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A)
Level 49: Earth's Embrace -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(23)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), PrfShf-End%(25)
Level 50: Nerve Core Paragon 
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany 
Level 50: Melee Core Embodiment 
Level 0: Task Force Commander 
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion 
Level 0: Portal Jockey 
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
------------

 

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