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Traps tweaks and changes.


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I love Traps.

The support set that is, for fenders, corrs, and MMs. It is a cool and different set, but some powers could really use a tweak.

 

For starters..Acid Mortar. On a corr this is -20% resist, and -26 of a fender. Why? Every other -res buff is -30 (sometimes but not all for fenders). The only different ones are nature (and that is such a quick recharging power anyway). It should be 30 for corrs and MMs, especially considering how less flexible it is than powers like Sleet/Tar. It needs to be placed, requiring you to be very close to a mob, can miss, can be destroyed (though hardly ever happens) and will not reliably debuff an entire mob. On top of that, there is NO red triangle effect, showing a mob IS actauly resist debuffed.

 

Triage Beacon. The recharge on this, a tier THREE powers, is so long, as too make it basically useless. Combined with it being +regen (way less useful than the Nature patch heal, which is a tier5 power, and has a FOUR second rech)..it just does not help much. Cut the rech, maybe make it a pulse heal/absorb. Even with a +end pulse too, like the nature one.

 

FFG. A great power. But it is sooooooooooooooo slow. I can outrun it jump with combat jumping and normal movement. ANd the fixed 4 min duration? Traps as a set..EVERY power it has is a click. Every one. I think only TA shares that (and I am not a TA fan either). Of all the traps powers, FFG should be a toggle. Keep it destroyable, to differentiate it from FF and Sonic, and make it MUCH faster to better keep up with you.

 

Seeker Drones. A..nice..kinda..alpha power. But again, the rech is so long, and the stun is not even a sure thing. Even 'bad' aoe stuns like Thunder Clap are at least a guaranteed mag 2! This is another power that could be a toggle too..like orbiting drones that debuff acc and perception, which would also fit a trapper theme.

 

Trip Mine and Time Bomb. They both suit the set, but are so similar as too be pointless. Either one should go, combining the two and making the animation NON interruptible (traps has way too many 'placing' powers as it is.

 

Give the set a Gun Drone. It makes total sense for the set.

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The fear instilled by Acid Mortar was the primary thing that killed the set for me and caused me to give up on it.  Web Grenade is single-target, and Caltrops cover too small an area and do too little slow to keep enemies from taking off to the far corner of the map in terror.  I was spending too much of my time just trying to keep mobs from running to the point that I'd lose target on them.  Unless the set gets some way of dealing with that, or the fear gets removed or reduced, I don't expect to ever play it again.

 

The FFG was probably the second most bothersome thing.  I don't have a good internal clock for 4 minutes, especially during busy combat situations.  So I never knew when it might self-destruct in the middle of combat when I really needed it.  So I ended up resummoning it a lot.  It got tedious.  On top of that it did a poor job following me.  It would get hung up on geometry or sometimes seemed to just sit around pondering if it really wanted to be near me.  All of that is if it didn't just get destroyed by AoEs or targeted by mobs.

 

It's a set I really wanted to love.  It's so different from all others and seems so full of potential.  If it ever gets reworked I'll look on with interest but I doubt I'll roll another trapper.

Edited by carroto
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Web Grenade - Now officially worse than the Devices version (along with trip mine and time bomb). I think an AE slow around the target would be good. Up the recharge to compensate if need be.

Triage Beacon - make it mobile and add + recovery. Stationary effects have low value on good teams, and this power heals a pitiful amount as is. 

FFG - agreed that it needs a boost to its speed. Otherwise it's an amazing power and IMO the main reason to take the set.

 

Trip Mine and Time Bomb/Detonator need a complete overhaul. They only deal damage, which is kind of lame from a support set. They are slow animating and interruptable, making them ill-suited for the fast paced reality that COH teaming is. At minimum, they need the animation changes that Devices got.

 

Trip Mine should become "Tactical Mines" or something. A 3-in-1 power similar to Swap Ammo. Leave Trip MIne itself as the incendiary damage option. Add in a Cryo Mine to deal ice damage and apply a recharge/run speed slow, and a Flash Mine or something that deals energy damage and lowers to-hit by 20%.

 

Time Bomb/Detonator should become Doomsday Device, a variant of Omega Maneuver, that summons a taunting bomb that briefly confuses nearby enemies and blows up. Also lower the recharge of the MM version. 10 minutes is insane for what this does.

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  • 2 months later

The weak points of the set are definitely Trip Mine and Time Bomb. Their activation time and that they can be interrupted makes them near useless, especially as they are point blank powers that require melee engagement.

I feel like Trip Mines should be "throwable" like caltrops, they could still have a "set up" time, and Time Bomb should absolutely just be made similar to the Crab Omega Bomb.

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I have not many issues with Traps. It pretty much is my go to set for quick and easy defense cap. 

 

Porting over some of the changes from Device would be nice.. EG Not being interrupted placing Trip Mine. 

 

Time Bomb/Detonator for Masterminds - I don't care what they do with it because anything would be better then current. It is just not usable.  I tried to use it on my Mastermind for Thematic reasons and it just sucked.. Period.. With the recharge I got it down to 5 minutes and still was useless.  I tested it out solo and you would think it would kill a bunch of mobs. I expected just the bosses to be alive barely and it missed on minions.  For a 5 minute timer it better wipe out a whole room. 

 

But as mentioned and being repeated move the changes over from Devices to Traps at least.. That is a good start.

 

Maybe make Time Bomb as was also mentioned above into a 3 type of bomb set. Cryo, Fire, Acid, Negative.

 

One thing I never seen in this game is a power to pull mobs in..  

 

Maybe a bomb that sucks mobs into it before blowing up. EG reverse repel.

 

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MM:

 

Triage Beacon is skippable, but I respec into it at 50 for 0x8 content. It is for the pets, not for players.

 

I get a lot of mileage out of Caltrops and Acid Mortar. The Mortar (and FFG) grabs aggro. Caltrops keeps MOB in the area I want.

 

The power I hate is Web Grenade. It isn't worth slotting. I hate having to take it at lvl 1. It doesn't stick the 'crazy runners'.

 

I like Seeker Drones, but it is hard to see what they do. I always skip the Trip Mine.

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The main issue with traps is that the game is way too mobile for the powers in it. They rely on setting up a fort and having enemies constantly around you, but we go from mob to mob they dont keep coming to us.

 

Adding more mobility to stuff like the triage beacon or throwing the bombs would be great.

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I'm a Traps fan and don't share many of the complaints expressed here except for 1 - FFG mobility.  Speed is a part of the problem but just as much is ability to move around caves (for example).  Sometimes I end up just re summoning rather than going backward to help with its pathing.  

 

Actually I do  have another complaint.  I like Web Grenade but the end cost seems high.  I'm not going to go through all ST immobs, but my /Atomic blaster's ST immob has a base recharge of 4 seconds and 17.8 second duration and has a base cost of 5.2 end.  WG in contrast has the same base recharge and duration but almost twice the endurance (9.75).  Controllers (the ones I checked at least) recharge in 4 seconds, cost 7.8 end but have a base duration of ~28 secs.  Bottom line, on a /Traps MM my end bar goes down real quick like when I go into spam WG mode against an AV/GM.

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9 hours ago, Hedgefund said:

Actually I do  have another complaint.  I like Web Grenade but the end cost seems high.  I'm not going to go through all ST immobs, but my /Atomic blaster's ST immob has a base recharge of 4 seconds and 17.8 second duration and has a base cost of 5.2 end.  WG in contrast has the same base recharge and duration but almost twice the endurance (9.75).  Controllers (the ones I checked at least) recharge in 4 seconds, cost 7.8 end but have a base duration of ~28 secs.  Bottom line, on a /Traps MM my end bar goes down real quick like when I go into spam WG mode against an AV/GM.

I'm fairly certain that's just a MM issue, not a web grenade issue. For some reason, MM end costs are drastically inflated compared to other classes for powers they share, and the attacks they don't share seem to have high end costs as well.

 

My traps MM is fairly happy, but I agree detonate/time bomb need drastic reworking, and wouldn't oppose something being done with FFG to improve it's ability to keep up and triage beacon to either make it more mobile (either let it follow you, or give shorter recharge) or to make it more worth pulling to the beacon instead of charging ahead.

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  • 1 year later
On 11/12/2019 at 8:15 AM, Galaxy Brain said:

The main issue with traps is that the game is way too mobile for the powers in it. They rely on setting up a fort and having enemies constantly around you, but we go from mob to mob they dont keep coming to us.

 

Adding more mobility to stuff like the triage beacon or throwing the bombs would be great.

I'd suggest making the stationary Traps pets TP-able (ie. TP other) so that you can relocate them, pull them to the next mob, etc.

 

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41 minutes ago, MaHaBone said:

I'd suggest making the stationary Traps pets TP-able (ie. TP other) so that you can relocate them, pull them to the next mob, etc.

 

 

Acid Mortar already is TP-able, and the duration of the debuff is 20 seconds. FFG is targettable too, though its supposed to follow you.

 

I would love for FFG to get the Prestige pet treatment, so its a toggle instead of a 4 minute click.

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I skip Web Grenade when I have the chance, just because of my personal tastes.


Caltrops - Proc-trops are okay with me. Not as useful as the days of yore, but still useful. Oh, their intended use? Secondary for me because they're not very good at it, as detailed above.

 

Triage Beacon - Mobile Triage would be a worthy change. Hell, give it tank treads and let it roll around behind you lol. I would also favor a change in the way it provides its benefit. It's a pitiful alternative when compared to other powers of the same kind. I would also favor a change in the way it provides its benefit. It's a poor alternative for other powers of the same kind.

 

Acid Mortar - meh. No strong feelings one way or another, but I agree that other ATs do it better and more reliably.

 

Force Field Generator - I'm with the others. Good power, poor speed.

 

Poison Trap - not a great power, and seems almost strictly inferior to the Poison AT's power of the same name that does DoT.

 

Seeker Drones - take 'em or leave 'em. Not bad, but not so great that they merit inclusion in all of my builds using this set. If others have something to say about them, listen to them because I have nothing to add.

 

Trip Mine - Throwable mines would be perfect. Leave the setup time, but make in not interruptible and deployable over there. I could take or leave the different damage-types options mentioned above. I just don't want to have to run into melee and stand there in the hopes that the agonizing animation time doesn't get interrupted.  Setting them up as-is with the hopes of bringing enemies to them means I have to stealth past the mobs and hope to drive the enemies to them, set them up before getting to mobs and hope to draw the enemies to them, or set them up randomly and hope an enemy happens upon it. The power is already hard to use, but being completely unable to rely on it to provide any kind of consistent benefit makes it a questionable pick. Taking Presence for a Taunt or Fold Space to bring enemies to the traps is a very poor choice for having a power that can be reliable on its own, especially when most of the ATs that get the set absolutely do not want the attention, especially at melee range.

 

Time Bomb - no new ground to cover. Everyone before me said what needed to be said. It's almost completely useless. Abysmal Recharge, interruptible melee setup, very little bang to justify the drawbacks. The Doomsday bomb suggestion has some merit. As for me, I say make it a sticky bomb. Target someone and it stays on them. In 8 seconds, they detonate. If they drop before then, it goes off at that point. And for goodness' sake, reduce that crazy Recharge time!

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On 11/10/2019 at 1:19 PM, Fist said:

The weak points of the set are definitely Trip Mine and Time Bomb. Their activation time and that they can be interrupted makes them near useless, especially as they are point blank powers that require melee engagement.

 

Well, no, Trip mine is not necessarily - it's just the only way most people can *use* it at the speed of current teams.  Solo, you can set up all sorts of shenanigans (that Hero One/vaptain whatserface, for instance, gives *plenty* of options for preemptive trip mining - like for every Rikti ambush except the first (watch your text,) and of course the portals can be pre-mined. But chances for that are few and far between - and yes, minefield setup takes *time.*

 

Time bomb is just hot garbage. Heck, replace Time Bomb with Minefield, which sets some number of Trip Mines in a placed area. More / bigger ones if you have it *and* Trip Mine.

Edited by Greycat

Primarily on Everlasting. Squid afficionado. Former creator of Copypastas. General smartalec.

 

I tried to combine Circle and DE, but all I got were garden variety evil mages.

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Ok so I've been playing traps for the first time recently and had some thoughts:

 

Fold Space is a huge game changer, you can drop all your motion traps in one place and tp a whole spawn onto them.

 

Problem 1: Poison Trap is Good Actually, but even with its -res and Trip Mine + Time Bomb + Seeker Drones I've been unable to clear even minions reliably. This is a support set, so DPS isn't exactly top priority, but the fact that I can execute something so convoluted and then have to clean up anyway is kind of ridiculous. In other words, planning /= payoff here. Traps should be that Batman of sets: can beat anyone with enough prep time.

 

Problem 2: Too much interrupt. Trip Mine is difficult to use, but with stealth and planning I've been able to drop it during combat on large teams. Unless the mobs use AoE then you are just screwed. Time Bomb is just impossible. It takes WAY too long to plant, and then there is little indication of when it will go off. As I described above, I try to combine it with Poison Trap and Trip Mine, and have them go off all at once. Timing this is extremely hard, since I can't tell when it will go off.

 

Problem 3: Too many sub-par powers. Web grenade is worthless. Single target immobilize? You can buy those. Most of the other powers are so specific that you have to build your entire play style around them. All of the explosives are worthless on teams. The support abilities are worthless solo. If you are stealthing, FF Generator and Seeker Drone are liabilities more than aids.

 

Solutions:

 

  • Web Grenade: Replace it. Maybe some kind of End Drain would work instead.
  • Caltrops: You've done nothing wrong and we're glad you're here.
  • Triage Beacon: MORE POWER. Make it move, or make it do periodic heals. Regen is old school we need something with a punch. Or boost recovery too, like plants.
  • Acid Mortar: IDK I skipped this.
  • FF Generator: This thing is pretty good actually. I just wish it wouldn't grab aggro when I'm solo. Maybe let it respond to pet commands so I could make it stay still?
  • Poison Trap: People bash this and I don't know why. I have dropped it in combat and locked entire mobs while my team ruined them. The hold could be more consistent and I wish activation were faster. Also the trigger range could be bigger, I've placed this and had it sit there the whole fight because the mob wouldn't scoot 6 inches to the right.
  • Seeker Drones: Worthless. These last few powers are the confusing part, because they make you think the set should do damage.
    • Option 1: More drones. Make this a swarm that can consistently hit things. 99% of the time they just fly off immediately and mildly annoy your enemy.
    • Option 2: These things are a debuff actually? Make the explosions hit more things, make the debuffs worthwhile. I swear I just learned they could disorient while writing this.
    • Option 3: Replace it entirely. Make them fire Web Grenades repeatedly. Make them buff your support.  Make them buff your team's damage. Or something else, IDK.
  • Trip Mine: Let it take interrupt reduction enhancements. I feel like it used to? I think the idea was to reduce damage output. So either don't put "Superior" in that description, or have it do something else.
    • Hear me out: Cut the damage down a bit. Three charges before recharge, like combat teleport. You throw them in front of you ~10 feet, no interrupt. 2 second timer before they "Activate". Then they go boom if an enemy comes within range. You can cover a hallway, or just throw them around in battle to cause chaos. you could even put a -ToHit or light Disorient on it.
  • Time Bomb: Don't make this sound so cool if it isn't awesome.
    • Make the damage gooder
    • Visually display timer so I know when boom
    • Make it a static pet that I can tp into place if I have to
    • Make it take interrupt enhancements so I don't have to be a psychic to use it. Seriously, it's like 20 seconds between button and boom right now, not only can I not make my team wait patiently to time up with this, but mobs will just wander away in the meantime.
  • Other thoughts
    • Traps needs to come with stealth. Either port Field Operative from Devices, or make like a Stealth Field Generator that buffs your team
    • This is a SUPPORT set. Really I shouldn't be using it as DPS. I love that it is, but every power needs to in some way alter the flow of battle, not just hit things. I'm a Defender, that's what my secondary is for. And I don't mean bump up the knockback, because I don't hate people like that.
    • Fold Space is such a game-changer here. Maybe build it into the set? Replace Time Bomb with like Spacial Warping Device. You plant it in a group of enemies, and after some amount of time, they TP to your location, maybe getting stunned or knocked down like Wormhole in Grav Control.

 

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After playing with this set, I thought of a few changes that'll speed this set up a bit. Even solo this set takes too long to setup imo.

 

If poison trap had the same cooldown and activation time of poison trap from poison set that would be a very good improvement.

 

 Trip mine could be turned into a grenade that also does -res debuff or -defense debuff. Time bomb could be changed into proximity mines that are thrown onto surfaces that explode when enemies are near.

 

Mortar could be changed to have movement like gundrone with the possibility of having two max. 

 

Seeker could be changed into stun grenades.

 

 

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On 4/29/2021 at 12:13 AM, Arbegla said:

 

Acid Mortar already is TP-able, and the duration of the debuff is 20 seconds. FFG is targettable too, though its supposed to follow you.

 

I would love for FFG to get the Prestige pet treatment, so its a toggle instead of a 4 minute click.

Is Acid TPable? I was sure it failed on me a few months ago when I tried it.

 

 

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One year later, eh?

 

I strongly oppose mobile Truage Beacon, on the basis of the set being about fortifying a location. I view the dalliances from that design (ffg and seekers) as a way to help gain a foothold.

 

I also don't think recasting ffg every 4 minutes (at most) is at all a big deal. It's the Traps version of re-upping party bubbles, something to ensure you're not just afk following someone else at full efficacy.

 

Changes I do support:

  • Triage Beacon buffs - I suggest giving it Faraday Cage treatment, where you can only have 1 but relocate it everywhere you go!
  • Changing acid mortar to take Ranged aoe sets - is it a bug that it's ST? The attack is listed as aoe.
  • Changing seeker drones to take Ranged aoe sets - same story as AMortar.
  • Buffs to web grenade.
  • Buff poison trap usability - it should be better at affecting whole groups instead of just the minion who triggered it. It's problems like these that promote toe-bombing and other "work against the desired gameplay" behavior.
  • Turn Time Bomb into a Fold Space bomb.
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12 hours ago, kikyoku said:

Fold Space is such a game-changer here. Maybe build it into the set? Replace Time Bomb with like Spacial Warping Device. You plant it in a group of enemies, and after some amount of time, they TP to your location, maybe getting stunned or knocked down like Wormhole in Grav Control.

Beat me to it I see! 

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29 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

I tried with team tp a few days ago and it didn't work.

 

I had hopes of moving my mortars long with the team.

You could once upon a time on Live but they removed it.

 

Of course with the recent changes it could have started working again.

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1 hour ago, Replacement said:

One year later, eh?

 

I strongly oppose mobile Truage Beacon, on the basis of the set being about fortifying a location. I view the dalliances from that design (ffg and seekers) as a way to help gain a foothold.

 

I also don't think recasting ffg every 4 minutes (at most) is at all a big deal. It's the Traps version of re-upping party bubbles, something to ensure you're not just afk following someone else at full efficacy.

 

Changes I do support:

  • Triage Beacon buffs - I suggest giving it Faraday Cage treatment, where you can only have 1 but relocate it everywhere you go!
  • Changing acid mortar to take Ranged aoe sets - is it a bug that it's ST? The attack is listed as aoe.
  • Changing seeker drones to take Ranged aoe sets - same story as AMortar.
  • Buffs to web grenade.
  • Buff poison trap usability - it should be better at affecting whole groups instead of just the minion who triggered it. It's problems like these that promote toe-bombing and other "work against the desired gameplay" behavior.
  • Turn Time Bomb into a Fold Space bomb.

 

I would strongly disagree that /traps (and to a less extent, /devices) being about fortifying a location. The recharge on the powers is quick enough that you can create a mobile death zone. I don't think there is any 'desired gameplay behavior' for the set either, you can play it like a fortifier, or you can play it much more aggressively. The choice is yours.

FFG is basically a Pet version of Dispersion Bubble, and that's a toggle. Giving FFG the 'Prestige Pet' treatment, where its a toggle pet, even if it costs a bit more endurance it would help a lot in not having your buff suddenly disappear. I've had that happen on more than one occasion where the FFG blew up at just the wrong time, and I got mez'ed, or the mobs got a lucky hit off, as FFG is the bulk of my defense boost.

Acid Mortar. at least the Mastermind versions, take Ranged AoE Sets. I'm really not sure why the other versions are different. I can kinda agree with the Seeker Drones changes, as those are AoEs as well, as should reflect the proper sets. Maybe we should post that chance in the Bugs forum, as having the sets work different between ATs seems like a bug to me.

Poison trap is very much an AoE. The gas cloud it spawns affects WAY more than the mob that triggers it. Details of what it does it handled here
but it definitely has an AoE component to it, for every aspect of the power, including the Hold. The radius of the gas cloud is pretty large already. And the massive -regen debuff will floor any AV/GMs regen, even with their resistance, and the purple patch. Its just that good. It is also very easily perma-able, as the gas cloud lasts a long time, and refreshes the debuff constantly.

Web Grenade, being the T1 power is already pretty powerful, with its -fly, -jump, and slow debuffs in addition to its immobilize. Granted, the animation could be a tad faster, but its already a pretty solid power, considering its a T1.

Trip Mine and Time Bomb definitely need a rework though. Even just giving Trip Mine the /devices treatment to remove the interrupt will go a long way in making that power more group friendly.

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I would start with:

 

1) Give web grenade the entangling arrow treatment by adding a debuff.

2) Speed up force field generator.

3) Give trip mines the devices trip mine treatment. 
4) Buff time bomb.

 

Other than that, I’m not super convinced of some of the other cited issues. For instance:

 

- RE: debuff values of acid mortar: it’s sort of ok they’re that low because you can have two of them.

- RE: triage beacon: not convinced about the desirability of the Faraday Cage treatment since you can have multiple of these as well, right?

- RE: seeker drones: I haven’t used this power so not sure how good or bad it really is.

- RE: caltrops and poison trap: these are both in good shape.

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@Arbegla I'm not saying you're intended to pull everything back to mission entrance. I'm saying you create locations and hold them. 

 

And I am definitely saying toe-bombing wasn't intentional.

 

Source: the definition of the word "trap."

 

Enforcing gameplay that makes it have the same "directly affect enemies with no regard for position" just makes it a thematically disjointed version of everything we already have. I do not see the point.

 

Likewise, I don't see a lot of call to make bubble buffs into limitless duration toggles. You can recast ffg to refresh the pet before the previous expires, and it's hardly a painful animation to wait for. I don't see the need to make triple-boxed pocket support more hands-free. I'm all for QoL, but not auto-battle.

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42 minutes ago, Replacement said:

@Arbegla I'm not saying you're intended to pull everything back to mission entrance. I'm saying you create locations and hold them. 

 

And I am definitely saying toe-bombing wasn't intentional.

 

Source: the definition of the word "trap."

 

Enforcing gameplay that makes it have the same "directly affect enemies with no regard for position" just makes it a thematically disjointed version of everything we already have. I do not see the point.

 

Likewise, I don't see a lot of call to make bubble buffs into limitless duration toggles. You can recast ffg to refresh the pet before the previous expires, and it's hardly a painful animation to wait for. I don't see the need to make triple-boxed pocket support more hands-free. I'm all for QoL, but not auto-battle.

 

I guess I don't see the definition of 'trap' the same way you do, so I'm having a hard time seeing that angle. I see a 'trap' as any device, stratagem, trick, or the like for catching a person unawares. It doesn't have a location aspect to it at all, just that the person triggering it doesn't know it is there. Using my definition, the only powers that really fall into that strict definition is caltrops, Poison Trap, Trip Mine, and Time Bomb. Everything else is very noticeable, and/or able to be targeted.

Expanding to use the definition of powers that directly affect enemies while regarding position has you include Triage Beacon and Acid Mortar, but still leaves Web Grenade, Seeker Drones, and FFG as powers that have no regard for position. Seeker Drones will actually follow you around (though they are kinda slow) until they detect an enemy, and then they explode.

The FFG isn't really a single target bubble buff, and other like powers (things that mirror Dispersion Bubble) are all toggles. Both Sonic, and Force Field have the same power as a toggle. Allowing the FFG to still get destroyed, like a Prestige Pet, still gives it a 'trap' like feel of being a secondary object that is providing the buff, without it just spontaneously exploding at the wrong time. Like I said, if the FFG blows up, and then you get mez'ed, you can't resummon it right away, and the 'notice' that it is about to expire isn't very clear. The animation itself isn't bad, its more the 'mid-combat experience' that I'm worried about. Another thing to consider, is that the Sky Raiders Force Field Generator has no duration, its a permanent pet. Why are the players version self-destructing?

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