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Official 'enterbasefrompasscode' Resolution thread

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18 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

You keep arguing that somehow the slash command is vastly superior for travel to what already exists and I tried explaining that it is not in every given situation.  It all depends where you are and where you need to go.  Sometimes it is the best choice, some times its not.  Sometimes Oro portal or the train are better options simply because of where you will exit.  This isn't rocket science.  Using it just for quick travel is a convenience that's no different than the Oro portal or P2W powers. 

 

You brought up using it on speed runs.  I see this just about every day.  People who are farming merits by running speed TFs have travel time down to a science and I can guarantee you not everyone is using the slash command for quick travel.  In my experience it isn't even used half the time.  Again, depends on where you are and where you need to go.  The slash command to the base is not always the fastest choice as you asserted. 

 

Using one of your examples - hazard zones - say I'm deep within Boomtown and need to go to PI or Talos Island next.  The Oro Portal or the Base Porter will get me where I need to go.  What difference does it make which one I use since they both arrive at the same place in the same amount of steps?

 

It is typically the best choice, yes. It's instant, you can use it whenever you like. Want to use an Ouros portal? Gotta disable, say, Afterburner first, or flight, or not be mid-port. Want to use the slash command? Instant.  You're there now, no need to disable any powers to do so. Hell, you don't even have to have any HP to use the slash command. You can do it while you're dead, or untargetable, or anything. Your status is irrelevant, you can just instantly pop over to where you need to be. That's not the case at all with the Ouroboros portal.

 

 If those people have it down to a science and aren't using the slash command, which is indisputably the best option for the majority of scenarios, then they don't have it down to an exact science, plain and simple. It isn't rocket science: Instant, no interrupt period, access to far more zones than Ouroboros has access to, available starting from level 1, where as you can't use your Ouros portal yet at that level, able to level up with NPCs in the base or sell your extra enhancements recipes on your way to porting out extremely conveniently.

 

By your own admission, in some scenarios, the Ouros portal is -on par- with the slash command.  I can think of maaaybe one or two scenarios in all the TFs/mission arcs where Ouros is preferable, and that's specifically for TFs that want you to talk to Miss Lib in Atlas, or Azuria.

 

If you want to go to a hazard zone? Slash command is better. Unquestionably. You got people in your group who get lost in transit trying to get to places, like, say Posi 2, how everyone blanks when it's time to go to Faultline? "Hey, just type in /enterbasefrompasscode portal-1111 and take the Faultline portal." Boom. Easy directions. Ouros, you'd have to walk them through "Oh, well, first you take the Ouros portal to... oh, well, I guess you can't get to Skyway from there, so, uh, I guess go to Talos, then take the tram to Skyway, then go down to the Faultline entrance?" or at best "Hey you already bought the Pocket D porter I hope, so just use that, then go to the Faultline elevator."

 

It's just better. Yes, as you said, the Ouros portal is better at taking you to Ouroboros. Yes, in one or two instances, the exit is preferable for time over the base exit point. Otherwise, it is, in a couple instances, on par with the slash command, and in most instances, no where near as effective. 

 

Edited by Indystruck

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Reduce the base teleport power interrupt time a bit, and I'll won't gripe about using that. I've got maybe 10 users in my base with 40 toons total. I'll give them each a million INFL to buy Base teleport power. Every new member that joins with a toon I give them 1 M influence to start with to get Base teleport gratis. Done and Done.

 

Two other travel powers I'd be happy to use if they'd fix them: LR Teleport and Mission Teleport and I wouldn't miss the enterbase "cheat" as much.

LR TELEPORT: I've been at the end of a LR teleport animation and someone passes the star or levels up, causing the "Your team is now experiencing this as Level 47!" message to pop up which breaks the LR Teleport and now I have to wait 5 minutes for the power to cool down and use again. Or you join a Team from an invite and so you see they are in Ind. Port, so you LR teleport to IP and the mission leader says "Okay everyone, first stop is Founders Falls for this mish." You look at where you are in IP to the trams and you're like.. "Um....I'll be there in a bit over 5 minutes."
 

And MISSION TELEPORT: 2 hour cool down. 2 HOURS! Sometimes you have 10 door mishes to complete in a story arc. You use the power to go clear out some 5th Column out of a tunnel....Yay! Now you only have to wait one hour and 47 minutes to use this power again to hit those other 9 doors.... OR another thing that happens; you start to use the Mish Teleport and the drawn out animation grinds away as it build's up to the flash......and you get attacked by a random mob or ambush. Sad trumpet. Womp womp!😞

 

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Heroes: Joan (of Atlas), Monkey, Assault, Homunculous, Seismic & Fastball 

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25 minutes ago, Megajoule said:

Unless you're a tank. 😝

I should smack you for that. No Brute or Scrapper has ever, or will ever beat my Tank. I do just fine thank you, and I imagine it's only going to get better...

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26 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

You keep arguing that somehow the slash command is vastly superior for travel to what already exists and I tried explaining that it is not in every given situation.  It all depends where you are and where you need to go.  Sometimes it is the best choice, some times its not.  Sometimes Oro portal or the train are better options simply because of where you will exit.  This isn't rocket science.  Using it just for quick travel is a convenience that's no different than the Oro portal or P2W powers. 

 

You brought up using it on speed runs.  I see this just about every day.  People who are farming merits by running speed TFs have travel time down to a science and I can guarantee you not everyone is using the slash command for quick travel.  In my experience it isn't even used half the time.  Again, depends on where you are and where you need to go.  The slash command to the base is not always the fastest choice as you asserted. 

 

Using one of your examples - hazard zones - say I'm deep within Boomtown and need to go to PI or Talos Island next.  The Oro Portal or the Base Porter will get me where I need to go.  What difference does it make which one I use since they both arrive at the same place in the same amount of steps?

 

It doesn't have to apply in EVERY situation to be broken. It's flat broken, period. Anyone arguing against that either has self-interest at heart, or simply doesn't know how game balance works.

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7 minutes ago, Rocketeur said:

MISSION TELEPORT: 2 hour cool down.

You might want a mechanic to check on your Mission Teleporter...Mine is a 30 min cool down...same as Team Transporter...

 

Unless there is a different one from the one sold by the nice P2W lady


"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." - Niels Bohr

 

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8 minutes ago, justicebeliever said:

You might want a mechanic to check on your Mission Teleporter...Mine is a 30 min cool down...same as Team Transporter...

 

Unless there is a different one from the one sold by the nice P2W lady

You may be right. I didn't time it, but it was a very long time and I just pulled up the specific recharge info off of the Paragon Wiki (Which doesn't hold water with Homecoming changes). Sorry for the inadvertent hyperbole.


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Heroes: Joan (of Atlas), Monkey, Assault, Homunculous, Seismic & Fastball 

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31 minutes ago, Peerless Girl said:

 

It doesn't have to apply in EVERY situation to be broken. It's flat broken, period. Anyone arguing against that either has self-interest at heart, or simply doesn't know how game balance works.

The person you quoted isn’t arguing against that...in fact they’ve been very firm in their understanding of needing to make a change...


"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." - Niels Bohr

 

Global Handle: @JusticeBeliever ... Home servers on Live: Guardian ... Playing on: Everlasting

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1 hour ago, Indystruck said:

 

It is typically the best choice, yes. It's instant, you can use it whenever you like. Want to use an Ouros portal? Gotta disable, say, Afterburner first, or flight, or not be mid-port. Want to use the slash command? Instant.  You're there now, no need to disable any powers to do so.

 

Why wouldn't you just use the Oro portal right after exiting a mission?  I mean, if your entire argument is going to be I have to click a button before using the Oro portal, that isn't much of an argument as far as I'm concerned.  Having to click a button doesn't even register on the silly scale.   Also, saying being able to use it at level 1 doesn't hold water either.  What reason is there to use it at or the Oro portal at level 1?  You don't have any content running in the majority of zones accessible from them.

 

If you want to claim it is better because there is no cooldown and no real effort put into obtaining it, then yes I will agree it is superior.  This is also why I am agreeing that it does need to be changed, along with it being abused in PvP zones and Master of TFs. 

Edited by ShardWarrior

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14 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Why wouldn't you just use the Oro portal right after exiting a mission?  I mean, if your entire argument is going to be I have to click a button before using the Oro portal, that isn't much of an argument as far as I'm concerned.  Having to click a button doesn't even register on the silly scale. 

Again, as I said in the rest of that post, it's entirely independent of your current status, that's the advantage. If you happen to get offed, and the mish completes, you can just gobble a wakie while already porting to the base. Or just port first, then gobble a wakie if the status is still hot in the mission. Or depending on how close you've managed to make the items in the base you're using, port, interact with the teleporter, have your corpse transfer over to the zone you're going for, *then* pop your wakie. Or just toggle up afterburner in mish to prepare for zone travel without enduring any animation gaps. It's alot of small advantages that are part of the overall advantage that was elaborated on further on in that post, as opposed to the two sentence snip. If you wanted the gist of it, you could've just gone a couple more lines to see what I was getting at, as opposed to talking about the "silly scale", which was:

1 hour ago, Indystruck said:

Your status is irrelevant, you can just instantly pop over to where you need to be. That's not the case at all with the Ouroboros portal.

 

Edit: Anyway, all this being said, I am a fan of the idea of reducing the cooldown of the Base TP related powers to something that's less than a half hour.

Edited by Indystruck

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It might have some very, very, very small advantages given in a very, very narrow set of circumstances that really are meaningless and save you fractions of seconds.  I mean, how granular do you want to get?  If I'm not dead, don't have flight or afterburner and just finished a mission, it's just as easy to port to Oro to go where I need as it is to port to my base.  I'll save myself what?  A fraction of a second travel time?   Again, I think comparing them from the standpoint that the slash command has no cooldown and costs nothing at all to get is a better reason for labeling it as superior. 

Edited by ShardWarrior

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2 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

No question is it being exploited in PvP and on Master of TF runs, so it does need to be removed.  We can only hope that it will get replaced by something similar, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

I did however point out that the ethereal shift temp power we can now stack to a high number of charges from P2W allows the exact same thing,a  click that can be used in virtually any emergency to get 30 seconds of breathing room, which is then enough to use an o portal, or just run the frell away. So the so called exploit of this for pvp is not nearly as exploity as some might say because there is a tool that allows for such trickery at least in pvp, as for the master of badges, they are for sheer bragging rights, and in no way a factor that really warrants this being removed as only a fraction of the population ever has been active in TFs let alone master runs.

 

Taking away something many use because a tiny tiny subset who claim to seek challenge would then try to negate that challenge just tells me the challenge itself should be the thing removed. Things there purely for braggarts are not a positive addition to the community in any game.

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16 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

I did however point out that the ethereal shift temp power we can now stack to a high number of charges from P2W allows the exact same thing,a  click that can be used in virtually any emergency to get 30 seconds of breathing room, which is then enough to use an o portal, or just run the frell away. So the so called exploit of this for pvp is not nearly as exploity as some might say because there is a tool that allows for such trickery at least in pvp, as for the master of badges, they are for sheer bragging rights, and in no way a factor that really warrants this being removed as only a fraction of the population ever has been active in TFs let alone master runs.

 

Taking away something many use because a tiny tiny subset who claim to seek challenge would then try to negate that challenge just tells me the challenge itself should be the thing removed. Things there purely for braggarts are not a positive addition to the community in any game.

 

Things there purely for people who denigrate others' playstyles is not a positive addition to the community in any game.

 

You do realize that you just keep digging yourself further in a hole, yes?

 

You keep mentioning things along the lines of, "It only negatively affects tiny slivers of the gaming community, so I don't give a damn."  I don't know if you realize this... but RPers are a tiny sliver of the gaming community as well.  I mean, it may not seem that way to you because they have their own server... but then again, so do PvPers.  Why does your tiny sliver of the gaming community have more importance than another tiny sliver of the gaming community?  Hint: It doesn't.

Edited by Apparition
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8 minutes ago, Cinderwalker said:

Has there been any official Dev post concerning this topic?

In summary: it wasn't supposed to be exposed to players in the first place, so it's going to go away eventually, but the devs understand why players want to use it, so when it's disabled, it will likely come with changes to allow inter-base teleports and improvements to existing travel powers (subject to feasibility and ease of implementation concerns).

Edited by GM Capocollo
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First, I'd like to raise a point that seems to be simply ignored: This is City of Heroes and City of Villains. A game based on comic books where entities have tremendous abilities and powers via whatever methods. Those methods do not include using slash commands. Use of the command absolutely detracts from the intended feel of the game: Using cool powers and abilities to do stuff and things. Sure, it's convenient, but it doesn't fit. Any further discussion about the command in particular is, frankly, wasted time.

 

Consider instead discussing alternatives and improvements to things that DO fit into the game. Improvements to the base teleport power such as those that have already been raised, or even alternatives such as adding a base portal to Ouro. What about inter-base connection points for SG bases? This has been brought up in other places, has plenty of different possible ways to be implemented, and definitely fits in this discussion.

 

Get crazy. The Ouro portal takes a couple seconds on a 5 minute cooldown, isn't interruptable, can be dropped in a mission and is usable by your entire team (hell it can be used by the entire zone if you enter last). Why have a long cooldown or an interrupt period on the base teleporter power? Why not have it or a separate power drop a base portal similar to Ouro's so people around you can use it? There's probably reasons for some things, but the point is to challenge the mold of Ye Olden Time's design decisions in the context of the current state.

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1 hour ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

I did however point out that the ethereal shift temp power we can now stack to a high number of charges from P2W allows the exact same thing,a  click that can be used in virtually any emergency to get 30 seconds of breathing room, which is then enough to use an o portal, or just run the frell away. So the so called exploit of this for pvp is not nearly as exploity as some might say because there is a tool that allows for such trickery at least in pvp, as for the master of badges, they are for sheer bragging rights, and in no way a factor that really warrants this being removed as only a fraction of the population ever has been active in TFs let alone master runs.

 

Taking away something many use because a tiny tiny subset who claim to seek challenge would then try to negate that challenge just tells me the challenge itself should be the thing removed. Things there purely for braggarts are not a positive addition to the community in any game.

Comparing a toggle power that 1) has an activation time, 2) has a recharge time, 3) costs inf to buy, and 4) can be suppressed when mezzed with a slash command that has none of those drawbacks is like comparing apples and oranges. Every thread this slash command has come up in has seen you somehow linking it back to PvPers and quite frankly it's tiring.


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1 hour ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

I did however point out that the ethereal shift temp power we can now stack to a high number of charges from P2W allows the exact same thing,a  click that can be used in virtually any emergency to get 30 seconds of breathing room, which is then enough to use an o portal, or just run the frell away. So the so called exploit of this for pvp is not nearly as exploity as some might say because there is a tool that allows for such trickery at least in pvp, as for the master of badges, they are for sheer bragging rights, and in no way a factor that really warrants this being removed as only a fraction of the population ever has been active in TFs let alone master runs.

 

Taking away something many use because a tiny tiny subset who claim to seek challenge would then try to negate that challenge just tells me the challenge itself should be the thing removed. Things there purely for braggarts are not a positive addition to the community in any game.

I don't care how many mental and verbal gymnastics, and Evel Knievel-style leaps in logic you take, it doesn't justify an exploit, period. It is however, entertaining watching you try, so please, do continue.

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1 hour ago, ShardWarrior said:

  Again, I think comparing them from the standpoint that the slash command has no cooldown and costs nothing at all to get is a better reason for labeling it as superior. 

That is part of what I had said, yes.

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2 hours ago, GM Sijin said:

First, I'd like to raise a point that seems to be simply ignored: This is City of Heroes and City of Villains. A game based on comic books where entities have tremendous abilities and powers via whatever methods. Those methods do not include using slash commands. Use of the command absolutely detracts from the intended feel of the game: Using cool powers and abilities to do stuff and things. Sure, it's convenient, but it doesn't fit. Any further discussion about the command in particular is, frankly, wasted time.

 

Consider instead discussing alternatives and improvements to things that DO fit into the game. Improvements to the base teleport power such as those that have already been raised, or even alternatives such as adding a base portal to Ouro. What about inter-base connection points for SG bases? This has been brought up in other places, has plenty of different possible ways to be implemented, and definitely fits in this discussion.

 

Get crazy. The Ouro portal takes a couple seconds on a 5 minute cooldown, isn't interruptable, can be dropped in a mission and is usable by your entire team (hell it can be used by the entire zone if you enter last). Why have a long cooldown or an interrupt period on the base teleporter power? Why not have it or a separate power drop a base portal similar to Ouro's so people around you can use it? There's probably reasons for some things, but the point is to challenge the mold of Ye Olden Time's design decisions in the context of the current state.

I don't see adding yet another beacon to bases for inter-base teleport being much of a solution.  You're still going to have to keep lists handy and tab out to cut/paste codes in.   The existing base port power is ok, but would need a much, much better animation (or better yet choice of animations - eg. tech, magic etc.), much, much shorter activation time and the ability to bookmark other base passcodes like we have now.  Personally, I don't mind it having a short cooldown (although I really don't see the need for this to be honest) or being interruptible either.  Bookmarking is the most important piece for me personally.  I can only speak for myself, but if we're going to just be given another beacon and/or less crappy version of what exists now without having the ability to bookmark, then it simply isn't worth the time or effort to code something new IMO.  I kind of like the idea of an Oro type portal drop power for it - so long as it can accept bookmarks.

 

I think an important question you all need to ask yourselves is what purpose do you want bases to serve?  Are they supposed to be just for RP or are they supposed to be functional?  If functional, then travel is a piece of that - are they supposed to supplement existing travel methods or supplant them?  Opening them up as you have and removing the utterly ludicrous prestige restrictions that existed when the game was live was a great thing IMO.  I disagree with just about everything @Bentley Berkeleysaid, however I do agree that base building to help expand the game is worth noting.  Personally, I have met and teamed with a great many players who don't want the hassle or drama of being in a SG or invest the time in building something themselves, but they very much do appreciate being able to use what others have built.  There are many bases now built for this specific purpose and something to think about as you work out what you want to do.  How can you capitalize on that to make the game better?

Edited by ShardWarrior
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Would adding more base portals in zones help alleviate the sting of losing the slash command? Instead of one portal per zone, add 3-4 spread around the zone to make it quicker to get to a base portal. And vary the entrance types (doors, sewer manholes, caves, etc. like current door missions use) so that those wanting a more RP-friendly base entrance can have one.

 

33 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

You're still going to have to keep lists handy and tab out to cut/paste codes in.

You don't have to tab out to be able to copy/paste text. Send yourself an e-mail with the codes. Then when you need one, hit reply on that e-mail, copy the code out and paste it into the base portal. Or make a macro (or repurpose the old enterbasefrompasscde macro once it is rendered obsolete) that sends yourself a tell (using /t $name,) with the code, and copy the code from the chat window. There are probably other ways to do it but those two jump immediately to mind.

 

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2 minutes ago, AboveTheChemist said:

You don't have to tab out to be able to copy/paste text. Send yourself an e-mail with the codes. Then when you need one, hit reply on that e-mail, copy the code out and paste it into the base portal. Or make a macro (or repurpose the old enterbasefrompasscde macro once it is rendered obsolete) that sends yourself a tell (using /t $name,) with the code, and copy the code from the chat window. There are probably other ways to do it but those two jump immediately to mind.

 

Can only speak for myself but that is way too much work for me lol.   Far easier to just drop and oro portal or take the train.

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On 8/28/2019 at 5:39 PM, justicebeliever said:

In the interest of helping the Dev’s have the best information, what were your plans around the current slash command?

Well, I guess it's not all THAT special, but due to the restraints of high-level factors (multiple sky/indoor-outdoor lighting can't exist on the same base), we were planning to make a series of bases and use the command to zip between them.  This is RP stuff, so it's within the story of the group.  If there was a way to make base teleporters go from one base to another, that would solve this "need" instead.

Edited by Tipsy
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