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Official 'enterbasefrompasscode' Resolution thread


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1 hour ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

because on live one of the two most active servers of coh was virtue, in fact between virtue and freedom the main meta game server where basically each about 40% of the active player population, CoH has always had a unquie draw to role players that no other MMO has ever had.

 

Meanwhile it was a fact that pvp on coh was deemed by the parent company and the developers as a failure because far too few actively made use of it, and those that did almost exclusively exploited the system to farm for the ultra valued pvp recipes.

 

So Role players typically make up in coh lets say conservatively 30% of the player base accounting for those on the RP server that dont really RP, while PvPers make up less then a single percentage point in CoH if the modern player population metrics follow the pattern of the old live servers.

 

Ive yet to see one PvPer chime in and state hey I spend all my game time in the pvp zones, and that includes staying in one like bloody bay once they reach the min level and street sweep there to lvl further. That is what someone has to do to really qualify as an active pvp zone player in coh, and no one does that. If you spend less then a fraction of your total play time in the pvp zone you cant really defend it as meaningful enough to be a reason for devs to do anything concerned with it in my book.

So because I'm bored I'm going to actually take the time to respond to this.

 

PvP wasn't deemed a failure by the parent company or the developers, at least not initially. Prior to Issue 13 this game had some of the best PvP you could find in any MMO. It wasn't perfectly balanced, but it was fast-paced and a ton of fun. Many servers had PvP events or leagues and at its peak there were at least a dozen independent teams engaged in competitive arena-based PvP. That might not seem like a lot, but this game never had a super-high population. It is true that a vast majority of the playerbase never engaged in PvP, but the same argument can be made for many aspects of the game - most people don't RP, most people don't badge-hunt, et cetera. The situation changed dramatically after Issue 13's sweeping PvP changes which ironically were intended to make PvP more appealing - most of the competitive players left and very few new people actually got into PvP. PvP IO recipes didn't get introduced to the game until Issue 14 and while it's definitely true that people used arena matches to farm for those drops, saying that was what most PvP consisted demonstrates an utter lack of understanding of what was actually going on in the game at that time.

 

It doesn't matter how much of the playerbase a subset of players is - it could be one percent, or ten percent, or fifty percent. Saying that a group of players represents a small percentage of the playerbase and therefore doesn't matter is antithetical to everything this game's community stands for, or at least stood for. These days, I'm not so sure.

 

In regards to your last paragraph, well... I guess I have to address it, but it's... really, really dumb. No one is going to chime in and say that they do that, because doing that is completely stupid. No one's going to spend the time to level up a PvP character in PvP zones when they can PL to 50 in a couple hours and then IO and accolade their character. Have you ever tried to level a character from 1-50 via entirely street sweeping? I've done it, and once you hit the upper 20s it gets agonizingly slow. If someone spends a large portion of their time in-game in a PvP zone, they're a zone PvPer. Besides, you've already said in here and other threads that you basically despise PvP in this game, and you used Guild Wars as an example of an MMO with good PvP, so why would I take anything you have to say seriously?

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4 hours ago, Waypoint said:

 

I PvP, in Arena and Zones, more than I do actual content at this point. Aside from the fact that it is an exploit, it ruins zones because people skip death and just hop to base to load up on things to survive. It's not fun.

 

Please stop quadruple posting. Post all your thoughts at once, or edit the post.

First of all, I will respond to and state whatever points I wish and do so ina  civil manner. You are totally in the wrong to try and tell me how to post. As long as I am not violating  the forums rules Ill post as often  as I like and respond to whomever I wish. So you can just keep your efforts at being a forum dictator to yourself. I am Bentley bloody Berkeley and you are no one of import to me.

 

As to your first complaint. Ive laready stated multiple times I am fine with an alternative that does not work in pvp as long as it preserves the QoL factor for base builders and the expanded cityscapes people are making. As for cheating death, a break free and a ethereal shift does just the same in any and every situation. In outdoor zones or on TFs people just use /ah to restock as needed some even use AH storage to stock pile meds and larges to access via the /command quickly. Death is merely an annoyance these days costing travel time at most outside of purely for bragging rights master of badges. Most would argue that travel inbetween actual playing of content is less fun then anything else.

 

Most modern online games allow for instant to mission travel to make grouping as easy and painless as possible which encourages pugging over just soloing.

 

You also admit you dont actually stay in pvp zones while leveling you clearly are one that only hangs in them after making a pvp uber build taht basically destroys all balance and fun for anyone more casual daring to enter a pvp area. Which highlights ofcourse the poor quality of the pvp design of coh as there is just too much of a possible imbalance between players in pvp even at the same lvl.

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40 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

I am Bentley bloody Berkeley and you are no one of import to me.

Oh wait, Bentley Berkeley? I think I've heard of you -- Waypoint owes you an apology, he didn't realize you were the guy who posts in threads only to get summarily laughed at by everyone else in it. I can only assume you are a parody account of a CoH player.

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48 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

You also admit you dont actually stay in pvp zones while leveling you clearly are one that only hangs in them after making a pvp uber build taht basically destroys all balance and fun for anyone more casual daring to enter a pvp area. Which highlights ofcourse the poor quality of the pvp design of coh as there is just too much of a possible imbalance between players in pvp even at the same lvl.

PvP zones are meant for PvP.

 

Bud, are you okay?

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59 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

You are totally in the wrong to try and tell me how to post. As long as I am not violating  the forums rules Ill post as often  as I like and respond to whomever I wish. So you can just keep your efforts at being a forum dictator to yourself.

You're right. I was in the wrong to tell you how to post on the forum. It wasn't me being a forum dictator, though, as I said please. It was more just a general housekeeping/request of consideration. I respect you have a lot of thoughts and opinions.

 

59 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

As for cheating death, a break free and a ethereal shift does just the same in any and every situation.

Current state of PvP, from my understanding, is that break frees aren't really needed due to mez duration being so short because of PvP mechanics. You really only need greens to counteract the insane amount of damage that is currently plaguing PvP. Additionally, ethereal shift does not save you because someone can chase you into ethereal/phase shift, thereby killing you if you're low enough. 

 

59 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

In outdoor zones or on TFs people just use /ah to restock as needed some even use AH storage to stock pile meds and larges to access via the /command quickly.

Auction house is disabled in PvP zones.

 

59 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Most would argue that travel inbetween actual playing of content is less fun then anything else.

Totally reasonable, but I also know that most would argue that jumping from building to building, or flying through the city itself, is one of the biggest highlights to a game where you can be a superhero.

 

59 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Most modern online games allow for instant to mission travel to make grouping as easy and painless as possible which encourages pugging over just soloing.

 

Also fair, because City of Heroes also offers that (at least for Incarnate Trials and Task Forces) with the LFG Chat and Queue.

 

59 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

admit you dont actually stay in pvp zones while leveling

Correct. I don't think anyone does this, even in PvE. If they do, good on them, but street sweeping is not an efficient use of time. If they included missions in PvP zones (actual content), I'd love to do that. I think it would be fun and would provide an additional challenge to a game that is fairly easy with the right -- or even wrong, for that matter -- build. The game isn't difficult, but it's difficult if you do decide to level only through street sweeping (barring doing that in PvP zones).

 

59 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

pvp uber build taht basically destroys all balance and fun for anyone more casual daring to enter a pvp area.

Nope. My builds do not destroy balance. I don't play anything overly powerful because I'm still learning PvP myself. In fact, one of my builds doesn't have an actual broken power in PvP because the hold duration is bugged. If I used it, that gives me an unfair advantage. I've been facerolled many a time in the arena and in zones. It's a learning process, and a fun one. If someone does want to get into PvP, I will gladly encourage that and help in any way I can.

 

59 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Which highlights ofcourse the poor quality of the pvp design of coh as there is just too much of a possible imbalance between players in pvp even at the same lvl.

You're right. PvP design has a lot to be desired in this game, but the PvP community is very welcoming to anyone who does want to PvP. You can check out our discord, which is located in the PvP section of the forum. I'll gladly help anyone to the best of my ability, as well anyone there.

Edited by Waypoint
Clarification on PvP mechanics/understanding.
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13 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

You also admit you dont actually stay in pvp zones while leveling you clearly are one that only hangs in them after making a pvp uber build taht basically destroys all balance and fun for anyone more casual daring to enter a pvp area. Which highlights ofcourse the poor quality of the pvp design of coh as there is just too much of a possible imbalance between players in pvp even at the same lvl.

So this should have been addressed to me, I think? I don't do much zone PvP because the quality is lower than what you'll find in a competitive arena match and the prevalence of the base TP macro has made it pretty unfun. I am going to touch on your points though - of course I'm going to make a good build for my character. Do you run all your characters on SOs or do you optimize their builds? You probably weren't aware that most aspects of the game function very differently in PvP than they do in PvP and diminishing returns mean your "pvp uber build" doesn't have nearly as much effect as you think it does.

 

You've said this in other threads - something about an inherent imbalance between builds in PvP because of the broad range of powersets available. And you know what? You're 100% right. But let's look at it this way - if I'm trying to build a character that can solo AVs and GMs, are you going to use an Assault Rifle/Force Field Corruptor for that? Nope. If I'm trying to build an AoE DPS machine I'm going to use a Fire/Fire Blaster. My point is there are different aspects of the game that some builds are more suited to than others. PvP is another one of those aspects - it favors builds that emphasize single-target burst damage, though on a team you can get away with more build variation. Even though this game's PvP implementation is a shadow of its former self, post-I13 PvP is still some of the best MMO PvP out there.

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2 hours ago, Waypoint said:

Correct. I don't think anyone does this, even in PvE. If they do, good on them, but street sweeping is not an efficient use of time. If they included missions in PvP zones (actual content), I'd love to do that. I think it would be fun and would provide an additional challenge to a game that is fairly easy with the right -- or even wrong, for that matter -- build.

IIRC there are missions that you can take in Bloody Bay and Siren's Call.  They're like Marcus Valerius or Borea missions, they're all timed, but most of them (there's a patrol) take you to instances in a zone where you can grind on Longbow or Arachnos.  If I remember rightly, there's an XP bonus on these also, as hazard zone pay, so they're not a bad way to grind for small teams. 

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6 hours ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

First of all, I will respond to and state whatever points I wish and do so ina  civil manner. You are totally in the wrong to try and tell me how to post. As long as I am not violating  the forums rules Ill post as often  as I like and respond to whomever I wish. So you can just keep your efforts at being a forum dictator to yourself. I am Bentley bloody Berkeley and you are no one of import to me.

 

 

Nah, you're someone stealing a well-known game NPC for your own use, and affecting his rather similar attitude as well. Last time I checked using in-game NPCs for yourself was frowned upon, I would *certainly* hope you're not doing that *in-game* too..otherwise it might be an issue for you...

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8 hours ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

I am Bentley bloody Berkeley and you are no one of import to me.

 

Weren't you the guy who said you were "not an elitist" when you were called out on being an elitist? And yet here you are telling people what they can and can't ask for since Bentley Berkeley said they don't matter. 

 

Image result for thinking emoji

 

Jabs aside, my own personal feelings on the matter is that, if it's an harmful EXPLOIT, it should be fixed. In this instance, people are reporting that incredulous folks in PvP are using it to avoid a defeat, which is wholly unacceptable. But I agree that, in it's stead, base teleport powers should be more convenient for those that use them, and PvP overall could be made more enticing to people.

 

I mean, for me, I just run/fly/jump to the nearest portal, since most zones have one, but since Homecoming came live I've been shocked to find people even lazier than me.

Oh? You like City of Heroes?

Name every player character.

I'll be waiting in my PMs.

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11 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

Thanks for the clarification.  Would seem to be a lot of work to make a whole new power/system just for this purpose alone.  Would there be any other things you could re-use this on?

Yea it's certainly more work for the devs than just letting players deal with entering their growing list of passcodes themselves. As for the question it depends on the context.

 

If you meant a power that accepts an input, it could be used for Long Range Teleport or any other teleport power that has multiple destinations. It could maybe also be used for something like Mastermind customization where you tell the henchmen power which version of the NPCs you want it to summon. Nothing else comes to mind in that regard at the moment, and these still require power bar... cluttering.

 

If you meant a brand new system specific for base passcodes? I doubt it. Sometimes you just need a specialized solution to a unique situation.

 

11 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

If you were able to get a new power to work where whatever it is could accept user input via macro I think that would go a long way because it offers a solution for bookmarking.

I'd 'ish' this. It's a solution, but an inelegant one that requires players to clutter their bars with macros (which are limited in number) or use something like a popmenu which is unfriendly to the uninitiated and requires restarting the game to update. Would it be better than losing the macroability entirely? Certainly. Is it the best option, all things considered? Not really up for me to say, but I'd like to think there's something better that can be done for a long-term solution, even if it takes longer to get here.

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Creating a whole new UI system for what is ultimately just storing text sounds like the sort of thing that'd take a faaair amount of time to me, honestly. Like... nothing is likely to trump the current macro system, I'll concede that. But, I like my valuable power bar real estate and never built macros for the hordes of bases I visit. I just store the base passes in a notepad++ file, alt+tab, snag what I need, and paste it in. You won't be able to do that when the slash command goes bye-bye, granted, but, clicking a base portal and hitting alt+tab copy alt+tab paste is a pretty easy solution that doesn't put the burden of developing a new system entirely on the developers. Not a good permanent solution, maybe, but, something that you'll be able to subsist on until something else is put in place.

 

Edit: Or perhaps just e-mail yourself using the ingame e-mail? But the way text input works in this game is sorta weird and doesn't like copy/paste from the game itself sometimes, I find the text file way more beneficial, typically. 

Edited by Indystruck
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5 hours ago, GM Sijin said:

Yea it's certainly more work for the devs than just letting players deal with entering their growing list of passcodes themselves. As for the question it depends on the context.

 

If you meant a power that accepts an input, it could be used for Long Range Teleport or any other teleport power that has multiple destinations. It could maybe also be used for something like Mastermind customization where you tell the henchmen power which version of the NPCs you want it to summon. Nothing else comes to mind in that regard at the moment, and these still require power bar... cluttering.

Thanks for the reply.  I am a programmer by profession, so I always think of how to write re-usable modular code over one offs.  That's why I asked if the idea could be re-used for other things in the game. 

 

You're correct macros can definitely clutter the bar, but we do have a lot of flexibility in customizing them.  Quite a lot to take into consideration with designing something to replace this for sure.

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4 hours ago, Indystruck said:

Creating a whole new UI system for what is ultimately just storing text sounds like the sort of thing that'd take a faaair amount of time to me, honestly. Like... nothing is likely to trump the current macro system, I'll concede that. But, I like my valuable power bar real estate and never built macros for the hordes of bases I visit. I just store the base passes in a notepad++ file, alt+tab, snag what I need, and paste it in. You won't be able to do that when the slash command goes bye-bye, granted, but, clicking a base portal and hitting alt+tab copy alt+tab paste is a pretty easy solution that doesn't put the burden of developing a new system entirely on the developers. Not a good permanent solution, maybe, but, something that you'll be able to subsist on until something else is put in place.

 

Edit: Or perhaps just e-mail yourself using the ingame e-mail? But the way text input works in this game is sorta weird and doesn't like copy/paste from the game itself sometimes, I find the text file way more beneficial, typically. 

Only speaking for myself here but having to cut/paste from lists is too much work for me.   I wouldn't bother with bases if that were the case.

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22 hours ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

As to your first complaint. Ive laready stated multiple times I am fine with an alternative that does not work in pvp as long as it preserves the QoL factor for base builders and the expanded cityscapes people are making. As for cheating death, a break free and a ethereal shift does just the same in any and every situation.

The costutme auras have an option for "combat only"; this is a status check that activates the aura when you attack or are attack, and your aura remains on for a period of time after the last incoming or outgoing attack -- I'm not sure what the timer is on it; ten or so seconds feels about right. If you took the same status value -- done efficiently, it would be a field in the character record on the server that was set when the character was 'in combat' -- and used it to disable the ability, so that you couldn't use it in combat (thereby rendering it useless for escaping from PvP or to skate defeats in Master runs), and give it a delay after leaving combat before it could be used, it would prevent the two primary uses that are being cited as its presence allowing you to skip around risk in certain content. Add a second check that skips past the first check if the character using the command is flagged as a GM.

 

On 8/29/2019 at 5:35 PM, GM Sijin said:

A game based on comic books where entities have tremendous abilities and powers via whatever methods. Those methods do not include using slash commands.

Just as an observation, there are a lot of activities your characters can take that, while there are ways to do them using the existing user interface, using a slash command makes them much easier -- and in at least one widely-used case, possible without major inconvenience. You can right-click on a character and select 'Add friend' or 'Add global friend' from the menu, but if they've dashed off, there's nothing to click on; "/friend" and "/gfriend" allow you to add friends if they're not physically present. You can drag inspirations onto your pets to apply the inspiration to your pet, but doing this in the middle of combat when your pets are moving around is a crapshoot; the "/inspexec_pet_xxxx" commands allow you to toss inspirations to your pets without twitch skills. You can activate abilities by clicking on them from your trays, but it's "/bind" that attaches them to keys to make them more accessible, and the "/powexec_xxxx" slash commands give you additional functionality when setting up binds and macros. Or the "/ah" command to conveniently bring up the Auction House interface. And the less that is said about the backflips that you had to go through to get your alts added to a personal SG without the "/altinvite" slash command the better. And while a lot of these aren't things that a superhero would be doing while beating up miscreants, arresting miscreants is not the be-all and end-all of a superhero's existence -- and the 'powexec' and 'bind' slash commands are examples where our methods do include using slash commands.

 

 

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19 hours ago, Heraclea said:

IIRC there are missions that you can take in Bloody Bay and Siren's Call.  They're like Marcus Valerius or Borea missions, they're all timed, but most of them (there's a patrol) take you to instances in a zone where you can grind on Longbow or Arachnos.  If I remember rightly, there's an XP bonus on these also, as hazard zone pay, so they're not a bad way to grind for small teams. 

They are only available within a certain level range, I wish the restriction on that was removed so you could never outlevel doing missions for Bloody Bay & Siren's Call.

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30 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

Just as an observation, there are a lot of activities your characters can take that, while there are ways to do them using the existing user interface, using a slash command makes them much easier -- and in at least one widely-used case, possible without major inconvenience. You can right-click on a character and select 'Add friend' or 'Add global friend' from the menu, but if they've dashed off, there's nothing to click on; "/friend" and "/gfriend" allow you to add friends if they're not physically present. You can drag inspirations onto your pets to apply the inspiration to your pet, but doing this in the middle of combat when your pets are moving around is a crapshoot; the "/inspexec_pet_xxxx" commands allow you to toss inspirations to your pets without twitch skills. You can activate abilities by clicking on them from your trays, but it's "/bind" that attaches them to keys to make them more accessible, and the "/powexec_xxxx" slash commands give you additional functionality when setting up binds and macros. Or the "/ah" command to conveniently bring up the Auction House interface. And the less that is said about the backflips that you had to go through to get your alts added to a personal SG without the "/altinvite" slash command the better. And while a lot of these aren't things that a superhero would be doing while beating up miscreants, arresting miscreants is not the be-all and end-all of a superhero's existence -- and the 'powexec' and 'bind' slash commands are examples where our methods do include using slash commands.

I think you misunderstood my meaning. Your examples are mostly the way the player interacts with the game (typically interface), not the way the character interacts with the game environment. There is a sort of exception in there: /ah. It replaces your character going to WW/BM/Whatever Praetoria's is called and I'd personally like to see the command start a unique animation to signify the character is checking the AH, similar to the way using the police radio/newspaper/invention workbench plays animations to signify what the character is doing.

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Ok so base tp is going...but. In that case, can we update (or at least CONSIDER) updating some of the more annoying TFS in the game? WHich are usually blueside. I just duo'd Numi in 50 mins..which is far and away faster than a lot of full teams I have been on, simply because we could bounce around the zones. That hunt section is a completen and utter PoS, and a relic from the early stages of the game. It isnt fun, it isnt a challenge,m it is 100% a time sink. Same as Citadel and the missions at both ends of IP, teh Boomtown mission of Syn etc etc.

Of course the argument can be made that with ATT and TT, these arent so bad. And that is true. But not every team has those. Naturally updating the TFs would take a lot of time, but in the interests of making them suck less (especially for new players. How many new players are gonna want to go NEAR a tf after doing Synapse?), how about a temp task Force power (like teh jetpack in posi) that lets you TT a few times? That wouldn't be a 'win' button in any part of the game besides that tf, and make them only usuable in zones, to prevent insta escape from death during master runs.

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39 minutes ago, Razor Cure said:

Ok so base tp is going...but. In that case, can we update (or at least CONSIDER) updating some of the more annoying TFS in the game? WHich are usually blueside. I just duo'd Numi in 50 mins..which is far and away faster than a lot of full teams I have been on, simply because we could bounce around the zones. That hunt section is a completen and utter PoS, and a relic from the early stages of the game. It isnt fun, it isnt a challenge,m it is 100% a time sink. Same as Citadel and the missions at both ends of IP, teh Boomtown mission of Syn etc etc.

Of course the argument can be made that with ATT and TT, these arent so bad. And that is true. But not every team has those. Naturally updating the TFs would take a lot of time, but in the interests of making them suck less (especially for new players. How many new players are gonna want to go NEAR a tf after doing Synapse?), how about a temp task Force power (like teh jetpack in posi) that lets you TT a few times? That wouldn't be a 'win' button in any part of the game besides that tf, and make them only usuable in zones, to prevent insta escape from death during master runs.

Running through content quickly has more to do with the players at the keyboard than the powers they're using. You can do Numina in about 30 minutes with a team that knows where the hunt missions are and splits them up. I think the argument re: ATT/TT would've held more water back on live where powers like that were gated behind veteran badges or Paragon Market transactions, but these days they're available for very little inf to everyone from level 1 onwards. Not saying that doesn't mean TFs shouldn't get updated, but you can do even longer ones like Dr. Q in about an hour.

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3 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

Ok so base tp is going...but. In that case, can we update (or at least CONSIDER) updating some of the more annoying TFS in the game? WHich are usually blueside. I just duo'd Numi in 50 mins..which is far and away faster than a lot of full teams I have been on, simply because we could bounce around the zones. That hunt section is a completen and utter PoS, and a relic from the early stages of the game. It isnt fun, it isnt a challenge,m it is 100% a time sink. Same as Citadel and the missions at both ends of IP, teh Boomtown mission of Syn etc etc.

Of course the argument can be made that with ATT and TT, these arent so bad. And that is true. But not every team has those. Naturally updating the TFs would take a lot of time, but in the interests of making them suck less (especially for new players. How many new players are gonna want to go NEAR a tf after doing Synapse?), how about a temp task Force power (like teh jetpack in posi) that lets you TT a few times? That wouldn't be a 'win' button in any part of the game besides that tf, and make them only usuable in zones, to prevent insta escape from death during master runs.

There is more to using bases than speedy transport for speed TFs - there are people building several of them for their RP groups and being able to bookmark them is a huge QoL point.  I'm not an RPer myself, but just as we should not ignore the reasons why the slash command hurts PvP, we also should not ignore that being able to quickly travel to friendly bases with bookmarking is a desirable feature for those who RP.

 

As far as lengthy TFs, this is something I mentioned earlier with regard to why so many people are using the slash command for fast travel.  I think everyone can clearly see the ratio between advertisements for "speed" runs vs "normal" TF runs.  Game design has moved away from lengthy travel time being a means to impede progression and dungeon runs that take several hours to complete.  The revamped TFs and newer additions like DFB, DiB, Summer BB etc are all short and contained to 1 zone.  People just don't have or don't want to spend the time on travel.  This is something to consider when re-designing/creating whatever is going to be added once the slash command goes away.  The slash command doesn't eliminate travel on lengthy TFs.  It just helps make it a little more palatable.  Just my opinion. 

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47 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

People just don't have or don't want to spend the time on travel.

They sure made due all this time before the last month or so when the command wasn’t available.

 

It really all comes down to laziness and not being able to properly utilize all the tools we already have have to make travel a non-issue.

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1 minute ago, Starforge said:

They sure made due all this time before the last month or so when the command wasn’t available.

 

It really all comes down to laziness and not being able to properly utilize all the tools we already have have to make travel a non-issue.

You've completely missed the point of my post.  And no, people who prefer not to waste limited game time on travel are not lazy. 

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