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PuckMulligan

demon/ secondary reccs?

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But not:
- Dark  (dark looks p sweet, I might actually try it)

- Cold

- Time

- Storm

 

 

I wanna do something non-obvious so not dark or cold and I've done time and storm already. Look forward to hearing suggestions!

Edited by PuckMulligan
maybe dark?

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Thermal would be on the obvious list I'd think, but you didn't mention it.  Good match anyway.

 

Most non obvious, (but still good), maybe nature?

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Traps XD


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Make Energy Aura available for Tankers plz, Munitions Mastery (Epic) for Masterminds, Temporal Manipulation (attacks) for Dominators, buff somehow underperforming Lore pets (Robotic Drones, Demons, Seers).

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My vote would be for nature - it's very good and covers many bases of support/debuff/heal/etc.

Edited by biostem

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7 minutes ago, Riverdusk said:

Thermal would be on the obvious list I'd think, but you didn't mention it.  Good match anyway.

 

Most non obvious, (but still good), maybe nature?

true, I should add that

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17 minutes ago, biostem said:

My vote would be for nature - it's very good and covers many bases of support/debuff/heal/etc.

I have nature on my corr and I love it!

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2 minutes ago, PuckMulligan said:

I have nature on my corr and I love it!

What primary did you pair with it, if I may ask, (sorry for the derail)?

Edited by biostem

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Just now, biostem said:

What primary did you pair with it, if I may ask, (sorry for the derail)?

dark! her name is the bog queen and she's swamp themed.

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1 minute ago, PuckMulligan said:

dark! her name is the bog queen and she's swamp themed.

I've been playing around with an archery/nature corr, and it's good but not great, so I'm always looking for other's input.  As for nature on a MM, I made use of a "targetcustomnext alive demonlings" to select one of my weaker pets then fire off the heal, since it is cone-based.  Helps a little.  Cheers!

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2 minutes ago, biostem said:

I've been playing around with an archery/nature corr, and it's good but not great, so I'm always looking for other's input.  As for nature on a MM, I made use of a "targetcustomnext alive demonlings" to select one of my weaker pets then fire off the heal, since it is cone-based.  Helps a little.  Cheers!

I've been enjoying dark/nature. I wouldn't say they synergize exactly but it's a nice assortment of abilities that leaves me never at a loss for something useful to do. The damage seems pretty nice too compared to the dark/plant blaster I rerolled into that toon.

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1 hour ago, Pale_Enchantress said:

Cold, Dark, and Time are easily my vote for the three strongest support sets in the game. They are all amazing with demons or anything else.

any reccs/highlights for dark powers?

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46 minutes ago, PuckMulligan said:

any reccs/highlights for dark powers?

Pretty much all of them, except black hole...  

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I wouldn't really think Cold, Dark or Time would work best with Demons, since demons are resist based, and both those all help with def (along with FF and Traps.)  

 

Thermal and Sonic are the resist sets.  Thermal seems to be great based on what I've read, but haven't tried Demon/Thermal yet.  Sonic I'm not sure about.

 

I'd also think healing sets would work pretty well with demons since they do have the resists not to die immediately to everything, again you're looking at Thermal, but also Nature, Pain, Empathy, and to a lesser extent Time, Dark, Rad, and Kin have a some going for them in that order, but Rad and Kin don't have much other mitigation.    I did try out a demon/pain on live and hated it though, so take that with a grain of salt. 

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3 hours ago, Justisaur said:

I wouldn't really think Cold, Dark or Time would work best with Demons, since demons are resist based, and both those all help with def (along with FF and Traps.)  

 

Thermal and Sonic are the resist sets.  Thermal seems to be great based on what I've read, but haven't tried Demon/Thermal yet.  Sonic I'm not sure about.

 

I'd also think healing sets would work pretty well with demons since they do have the resists not to die immediately to everything, again you're looking at Thermal, but also Nature, Pain, Empathy, and to a lesser extent Time, Dark, Rad, and Kin have a some going for them in that order, but Rad and Kin don't have much other mitigation.    I did try out a demon/pain on live and hated it though, so take that with a grain of salt. 

Nature has a resist buff as well.

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On 9/2/2019 at 4:08 PM, PuckMulligan said:

any reccs/highlights for dark powers?

/Dark is so powerful all its powers except Black Hole are great. Petrifying Gaze is probably the second most sacrificable ability but you can stack the mag with your demon prince and dark servants holds. I can't imagine what you'd get that would be better. 

 

9 hours ago, Justisaur said:

I wouldn't really think Cold, Dark or Time would work best with Demons, since demons are resist based, and both those all help with def (along with FF and Traps.)  

 

Thermal and Sonic are the resist sets.  Thermal seems to be great based on what I've read, but haven't tried Demon/Thermal yet.  Sonic I'm not sure about.

 

I'd also think healing sets would work pretty well with demons since they do have the resists not to die immediately to everything, again you're looking at Thermal, but also Nature, Pain, Empathy, and to a lesser extent Time, Dark, Rad, and Kin have a some going for them in that order, but Rad and Kin don't have much other mitigation.    I did try out a demon/pain on live and hated it though, so take that with a grain of salt. 

The "resist set/defence set" thing is blown out of proportion with anything but forcefields. Time, Cold, and Dark are just so good there isn't anything they don't have huge synergy with.  With demons you gave an easy time slotting all 6 pet auras. Dark gives enough - to hit the demons will benefit, it also gives control, debuffs, one of the best heals in the game (and I dont evenusually like heals), and some limited buffing.

For time, Power boosted foresight with pet aura IO's is going to softcap your pets, and thats just a single power from a set where every power it gives is amazing.  On everything but AV's soft control and debuffs will keep your pets alive better then passive defence, but why pick and choose when you can have both? 

/Cold is godly, like time the +def shields are just one small tool in a massive chest of powers. The shields will help your demons survive but everything else does too. It's the best AV debuffer in the game except perhaps poison which offers nothing else. Colds main issue is it blooms late and works best with a good build. I will conceed that it might not be the best match for demons if someone it just going to use generic SO and IO and isnt good with builds.  Investing in a /cold build gives you a higher power ceiling than most other support sets.

 

These three are going to find itself able to offer more to solo or team than demons/thermal and thermal is a great set. Demons/Sonic isnt even going to come close, the pets will still die more often. However /thermal, and /sonic are both fine sets just they don't quite dominate every type of combat you could find yourself in like the above three. 

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I like my Demon/Thermal a lot. I play him as pure support build. On Support builds i like to have a rez and vengeance. If i don't have to heal i can debuff the enemys and buff my allies even more with forge and thaw for the ones without mez protection.

It is a really fun set and the fire theme goes well with the demons. Obviously the resistance buff synergizes also pretty well.

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I do have a Demon/Time at 49 now.  It was quite good at low/mid level, I was able to go +2 in the 20's which I've never experienced on any other combo of any AT.  Unfortunately it's seeming fairly bad at this level, I don't have sets in it yet, so perhaps it will improve after sets, but it definitely doesn't synergize well right now.   I don't have the inf to spend for sets on a combo I'm finding questionable though.  I could possibly pull the sets from my Bots/Storm which I'm not enjoying currently, but I'm not quite ready to give up on that character.  Slows and -rech don't seem to work well at the highest level either, which is most of what time does for mitigation.  

 

The above is why I'm skeptical of dark or especially cold working well with Demons.

 

I didn't realize Nature had resists, that makes it a prime candidate and explains why I've seen so many Demon/Nature in incarnate trials - obviously it can hold it's own at high level, so would be a great choice.

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Reasons why /dark synergizes really well with demons:

1) Really, really strong heals. Defcapped T1 pets have a particular but fairly common failure state - they run out of range of one of your auras(or get knocked away from you), then take a big alpha and die. Demons mitigate this by having strong resistances even if they get pushed out of the fiddly small auras. The downside is that they take more damage overall, which /dark's incredibly strong healing can usually handle. It's hard to overstate how strong twilight grasp is - it's one of the highest AoE heals available(beating out most single target heals), at one of the lowest cooldowns and endurance costs. It also debuffs -hit, -dmg and -regen. It's bonkers.
2) Strong -dmg. An obvious complement to the concept of damage smoothing, the combo of resistance + -dmg + heals is what really makes damage bearable. /Dark can bring a strong -20%(-50% with dark servant) AoE damage reduction, and an absolutely ludicrous -100% damage on a single target. 
3) Strong -hit. Resistances are nice, but you still don't wanna get hit at least by mooks. /Dark, even in its neutered MM state, can stack -30% hit in an AoE(darkest night/fearsome stare), not to mention dark servant's 50%+ extra -tohit.
4) Plugging resistance holes. Shadow Fall will perfectly slot into the gaping resistance holes of demons, bringing them(alongside pet auras) to a reasonable 50%.
5) Strong -res/-regen for hard targets. /Dark boasts some of the best -res(90s cd, -30%) and A-tier -regen(-500% with roughly 50% uptime, and roughly -250% stackable from twilight grasp, which brings you to an average -500%, on the level of cold and thermal).

6) A /dark MM can softcap s/l def and cap s/l/e resistances, making them a great tankermind. Due to options 1-5), you don't have to spend all your time tanking for your pets, you can instead strategically taunt dangerous targets.

...

7) It's fun to play. /Thermal and /Time are solid choices, but they're both fairly hands-off. Since /Dark relies heavily on debuffing, you want to be pushing all those buttons.

 

Reasons why /dark isn't optimal for demons:

1) It doesn't help the pets hardcap res. This is a drawback compared to nature and thermal - you're effectively taking double damage when hit compared to them(but /dark gets hit a lot less often when it layers debuffs, and also keep in mind the gaping energy resist hole).

2) Dark is endurance hungry on an already endurance hungry AT.
3) Dark is very active, which means you can't make optimal use out of the excellent primary attacks.

4) Dark is a stack of cards, on top of the stack of cards that MM's pet herding already is. When things go wrong, they go very wrong. This is especially bad for demons because they have the longest recast/rebuff times, for some reason.

 5) Missing Twilight Grasp twice in a row is infuriating.

 

 

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I have a thugs/dark whom is mostly complete. My one complaint has been an inability to solo AVs effectively. You throw your debuffs on one, and after using its alpha strike abilities on you, the AV will run off while waiting for its abilities to recharge, which are faster than your debuffs. I was only able to get Hopkins down to around 80% or so before his health started gradually increasing and I’m wrapped up in a cycle of trying to heal the pets while resummoning dead ones and debuffs as I can. I’ve only tried soloing the weekly TFs so far, so not sure if the issue extends to incarnate content as well. While leveling the toon felt a little squishy, but I did so without the defense/resist IOs for the pets. At 50 they feel fine in general content.

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It's been too long since I've played /dark never really thought about the resists, as I was playing on bots.   Combined with the -dam and heal it should be pretty good on Demons, I concede. 🙂

 

As to incarnate content, pretty much all controls, especially slows and immobilization, are pretty heavily resisted, if you're soloing you're just as likely to have everything run off as AVs do.   Of course if you're soloing DA you'll probably be wanting to set to +0 anyway as the mobs are so tough going much higher is extremely difficult.  In other incarnate content you'll be in teams or leagues so it doesn't really matter that much,  BAF still wants MMs with slows though, so you should be fine there.

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http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1690&c=805&a=1610&f=HEX&dc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So what is the best spec, perspective of fun and or just in sync pairing are all different. I say narrow it down and then roll with a theme you like.  I will give my 3 points and hope it help someone choose, and not get bad info like I did to start.

 

When I first rolled a Demon I had a Thermal. Was very happy with it but then I read on the forums resistant secondary's are horrible end game. People would say  pets have such low hit points that resistance is pointless.   One bash after another  so I  caved and rerolled a Demon/Cold ultimate giant killer from what the forum have you believe.  Recently I tested  the resistance builds and  this  notion was false maybe at a lower resistance but at cap 90% the pets do not get one-shot easily unless its a av game mechanic.. Going back to Demon/cold it was great don't get me wrong, but for demons were not perfect and the consistent single target healing and lack of CC protection. Just did not fit right for me I felt weak  to many gaps for me. So I lost interest and went back to other alts. Cold in my opinion just works better with other primaries there just not a lot of positive syncing with demons  yes its a very strong secondary but its def base and Demon are at heart resistant base.

 

I kept wanting to go back to a MM so I dusted of my Demon/Thermal and started lvling, it just works so much better and almost everything Cold can do to a  Thermal can do but to a lower degree but it has 2 great heals and CC protection for pets. - regen for AVs. debuffs, buffs its has it all. Now here where it meshes well with Demons its the resistance cap it get there with ease and its beautiful  90% res cap Demons with heals is just broken.  So after testing Sonic and Thermal I kept going with Thermal.  Why ?  Sonic end up over capping 90% by a large margin and  because of that why  would you want to loose heals and - regen from thermal to go Sonic where the extra resistance is worthless.

 

With that Sonic testing being over kill for Demons, I found a nitch I would have never thought of Necro/Sonic. caps most  resistances at 80% and pets heal themselves. Is it as strong as Demon/ Thermal  absolutely not  but is it in the middle of the pack yes  and its graphic and playstyle is what I am pleased with is it weak absolutely not,  and it  is allot of fun. SO what Iam getting at is play on Justin Server find what you like and then level with a great team in game and enjoy. If you want the best build in game its Thug/trap hands down and I would say top 5 would be a Demon/Thermal. 

 

Dark is good with every primary  but being good and meshing well  are not the same thing. Dark would mesh well with a def primary or Necro for massive -tohit values. Again not saying its bad but nothing screams Demons. 

Edited by Ironscarlet

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On 9/6/2019 at 9:35 PM, Vinceq98 said:

http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1690&c=805&a=1610&f=HEX&dc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

Can you repost that in long form also?  It is mostly empty.

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