Knockback Protection?

[CrimsonOne]

I am curious if anyone here would know, how much Knockback Protection would a non Invul tank need to no longer be knocked back by Lord Recluse? My Electric/Energy tank has 15.6 in Knockback and was being tossed around like a rag doll.

[Call Me Awesome]

If your set doesn't include KB protection the thumb rule is to either slot 1 KB IO (for MAG 4) or go to 3 (for MAG 12).  MAG 4 will handle 90% of the KB in the game and anything stronger than MAG 4 will beat MAG 8 so slotting two is fairly pointless.  Electric has quite good KB protection in Grounded so you should not be KB'd by much of anything and do NOT need any additional protection.

 

I've never had any tank with KB protection get knocked back by LR so I don't know what to tell you.  You do have Grounded? 

[CrimsonOne]

2 minutes ago, Call Me Awesome said:

If your set doesn't include KB protection the thumb rule is to either slot 1 KB IO (for MAG 4) or go to 3 (for MAG 12).  MAG 4 will handle 90% of the KB in the game and anything stronger than MAG 4 will beat MAG 8 so slotting two is fairly pointless.  Electric has quite good KB protection in Grounded so you should not be KB'd by much of anything and do NOT need any additional protection.

 

I've never had any tank with KB protection get knocked back by LR so I don't know what to tell you.  You do have Grounded? 

Yup, I do have Grounded, and that is where all my KB is coming from, which says it is MAG 15.6, and yet Recluse was bouncing me around like a basketball. Invul tanks never seem to have the issue but they get a status resistance of 10000% to Knockback from Unyielding (Which is INSANE). So I am not sure if there is another way to give other tanks a similar KB resistance or protection. 

[Rylas]

1 hour ago, CrimsonOne said:

Yup, I do have Grounded, and that is where all my KB is coming from, which says it is MAG 15.6, and yet Recluse was bouncing me around like a basketball. Invul tanks never seem to have the issue but they get a status resistance of 10000% to Knockback from Unyielding (Which is INSANE). So I am not sure if there is another way to give other tanks a similar KB resistance or protection. 

Grounded requires you to be... well, grounded. That is, on the ground, for the KB protection to work. So if LR hit you while you were jumping around, he'll send KB you for sure.

Edited September 3, 2019 by Rylas

[CrimsonOne]

24 minutes ago, Rylas said:

Grounded requires you to be... well, grounded. That is, on the ground, for the KB protection to work. So if LR hit you while you were jumping around, he'll send KB you for sure.

Only time i was in the air was when I was flying from the Knockback =P

[CrimsonOne]

Here's a screenshot of the action, me on the ground, with Grounded on, getting Knocked back, and this is after Red and Blue towers are down, so he's not hitting as often and not as hard. I don't want to waste more slots just to add KB if i don't know how much it would take to fix it. It is more of a curiosity more than anything. 

[CrimsonOne]

Ran another test this morning and increased my KB Protection to 19.6 and I was still knocked down. I don't think this works like it should, or at least it doesn't work like we think it should. 

 

  

[Rathulfr]

Is the problem that you're getting knocked back, or that you're getting knocked down?  I thought those were two different effects?  Consequently, does knockback protection work against knockdowns, also?  If so, should it?  If not, shouldn't it?  I don't know: I'm genuinely asking.

Edited September 3, 2019 by Rathulfr

[CrimsonOne]

1 hour ago, Rathulfr said:

Is the problem that you're getting knocked back, or that you're getting knocked down?  I thought those were two different effects?  Consequently, does knockback protection work against knockdowns, also?  If so, should it?  If not, shouldn't it?  I don't know: I'm genuinely asking.

It is all Knockback. Knockdown is the same thing just a different direction. You can slot your knockback powers so you knockdown instead, mainly so you don't piss off your teammates and spread nicely grouped mobs all over the map.

[Rathulfr]

14 minutes ago, CrimsonOne said:

It is all Knockback. Knockdown is the same thing just a different direction. You can slot your knockback powers so you knockdown instead, mainly so you don't piss off your teammates and spread nicely grouped mobs all over the map.

I'm not sure it really is.  There are power descriptions where protection/resistance for Knockback is described differently than Knockup (which I understand is the same as Knockdown).  But I could be wrong.  I believe that I read something to that effect by @Captain Powerhouse, but I don't remember where.  Perhaps he can chime in and clarify?

 

(edit) Here's something from @Number Six that describes what I am thinking.

 

(edit 2) Here's something from @Steampunkette describing the difference between knockback versus knockup/down.  It seems that knockback is relative to you and the target, while knockup/knockdown is relative to the target and the ground.

 

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Rathulfr

[CrimsonOne]

1 minute ago, Rathulfr said:

I'm not sure it really is.  There are power descriptions where protection/resistance for Knockback is described differently than Knockup (which I understand is the same as Knockdown).  But I could be wrong.  I believe that I read something to that effect by @Captain Powerhouse, but I don't remember where.  Perhaps he can chime in and clarify?

Combat Attributes doesn't show any stats for Knockup. However, Grounded also adds the same Mag 15.6 to Knockup as well. 

[Rathulfr]

1 minute ago, CrimsonOne said:

Combat Attributes doesn't show any stats for Knockup. However, Grounded also adds the same Mag 15.6 to Knockup as well. 

So Grounded actually lists the same mag 15.6 value for both Knockback and Knockup?  If so, then it seems that Lord Recluse's attack power that knocks you down is greater than mag 15.6 or 19.6.  Or it's broken.  Either way, I got nothing else.  Sorry, mate.

[justicebeliever]

Knockdown is just a smaller Knockback (lower magnitude)

 

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Knockdown

 

Knockup is a different mechanic, but KB protection works on it as well

 

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Knockup

[Zepp]

KD is a weak version of KB. KU is a different mechanic with a y-vector rather than an x.

[CrimsonOne]

5 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

So Grounded actually lists the same mag 15.6 value for both Knockback and Knockup?  If so, then it seems that Lord Recluse's attack power that knocks you down is greater than mag 15.6 or 19.6.  Or it's broken.  Either way, I got nothing else.  Sorry, mate.

Indeed! I believe it is broken. I am in the process of writing up another post in the feedback section to address this.

 

[Rathulfr]

5 minutes ago, justicebeliever said:

Knockdown is just a smaller Knockback (lower magnitude)

 

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Knockdown

 

Knockup is a different mechanic, but KB protection works on it as well

 

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Knockup

Ok, so it seems I confused Knockup/Knockdown as the same thing, different than Knockback.  But actually, Knockback/Knockdown are the same thing (just different magnitude), which makes Knockup a different effect.  Thanks for clarifying that, @justicebeliever!

 

[CrimsonOne]

Posted something more in the feedback section. There are three Tank armors that would run into this issue due to not having Knockback Resistance. I am now convinced you couldn't add enough Knockback Protection into your build to stop Lord Recluse from knocking you back, it's all about that resistance.