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3333053222

Ice/Fire/Flame AE Fire Farmer

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27 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

I'll look into it when I get home in a few hours, but have you tried updating directly from Pine's? I'm not even sure that is possible, figure I'd ask.

Thank you.  I opened up my version of Pines just now and I don't see any update menu item.  Plus I think that the Hero Designed 2.23 is in collaboration with Pines, but is not Pines (not that I understand these details :) ).

 

Edit:  I found the answers in 

The first page of the thread has a link to "Setup Installer" that is all I needed, then you can update to the most recent version once Mids is opened by going to Options > Check for Updates now.

Edited by HellsFury

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23 minutes ago, 3333053222 said:

This is NOT 223% recharge. This is 153.8% recharge. You're using Forced Feedback on Kick to get it to those values, which, it may work and proc all the time, but it resumes back to the normal recharge after 5 seconds and this doesn't perma apply and make Blizzard that much faster than mine. 

You are incorrect.  again.  Click the green dot on Kick and it bumps the recharge to 323%.  --- 

Quote

 

You also did not cap fire resistance. Remember the 5% top value is even more valuable than then last 5%. This will really hurt you. You also gain a lot less health. You have no Hot Feet (although I can't bar you on this one because you've said you dislike Hot Feet due to fear.)

There is a scaling 10% which scales according to HP.   It will cover the gap, and with layers of knockdown it doesn't really matter.

Quote

 

Recharge is great but even still... You could've shored up some of the resist by going for Prev Medicine in Caut Aura and getting more fire resist.

doing so would cost me the 10% in recharge that I get from gravitational.   If I was really worried about the fire resist there are easier ways to cap it than to six slot preventative.   For instance throwing two fury's into any of the pbaoe's would take me there

Quote

 

Melt is not up as often as you'd believe it to be with the Kick, unless Kick permanently adds 100% (which it doesn't, it still "drops" and has to be restarted with Force Feedback) it is not up as often as you'd be made to believe. 

Again, you've got this wrong. 

Quote

 

You gain a greater farming benefit out of Degenerative Core not Reactive. Strange, but true. 

Possibly

Quote

 

If you got rid of the extra proc damage on BIB you could've gained 3% more fire res which almost takes you to capped fire resistance without sacrificing realistically any clear speed but improves your damage mitigation.

At the cost of 10% recharge.

Quote

 

Your accuracy is not good. You will miss lots of enemies. That will floor your clear speed especially in +4. 

Level shifts are real my friend.    75 base chance to hit.  39% accuracy = 105% chance to hit.  Minus 9% --- or is it 18% chance to hit from lvl difference.   I dont know if the third level shift would count.  would need to look, but either way, rain powers don't miss very often, lol. 

Quote

 

In your build, things like burn would be up more often given your ageless and kick combo but not necessarily your blizzard or melt armor as much as you'd think given that the FF proc is 100% for 5 seconds not on a full 30-60 second cooldown power. You have no annihilation procs; pros and cons to this. Others debate it and say it's bad, I'm personally in the middle and use it for a small boost. 

 

I literally only put the + recharge in kick so that it wasnt a completely wasted slot.  If you think I'm wasting my time spamming kick on things in +4's you're nuts. 

Edited by natewest1987
just a spelling error lol

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2 minutes ago, natewest1987 said:

You are incorrect.  again.  Click the green dot on Kick and it bumps the recharge to 323%

There is a scaling 10% which scales according to HP.   It will cover the gap, and with layers of knockdown it doesn't really matter.

doing so would cost me the 10% in recharge that I get from gravitational.   If I was really worried about the fire resist there are easier ways to cap it than to six slot preventative.   For instance throwing two fury's into any of the pbaoe's would take me there

Again, you've got this wrong. 

Possibly

At the cost of 10% recharge.

Level shifts are real my friend.    75 base chance to hit.  39% accuracy = 105% chance to hit.  Minus 9% --- or is it 18% chance to hit from lvl difference.   I dont know if the third level shift would count.  would need to look, but either way, rain powers don't miss very often, lol. 

I literally only put the + recharge in kick so that it wasnt a completely wasted slot.  If you think I'm wasting my time spamming kick on things in +4's you're nuts. 

I took off Ageless, and then I took off Kick, you are left with 153.8% recharge. You do not keep the full 70% recharge the entire 2 minutes Ageless is up. It gradually decreases down to a single digit number.

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11 minutes ago, natewest1987 said:

 

At the cost of 10% recharge.

Actually no, you actually GAIN 1.25% recharge. All I did was replace where you put Panacea (+health/end) from the Caut Aura to health, then take off the extra proc on BIB and then move it over to Caut Aura and replace it with Preventive Medicine and you gain 3% more fire resist and 1.5% recharge. 

 

Here is a little bit of a revised build for that.

 

Hero Plan by Hero Hero Designer 2.23
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Blaster
Primary Power Set: Ice Blast
Secondary Power Set: Fire Manipulation
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Flame Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Ice Blast -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(3), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(5), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(7)
Level 1: Ring of Fire -- GrvAnc-Immob(A), GrvAnc-Immob/Rchg(25), GrvAnc-Immob/EndRdx(31), GrvAnc-Acc/Immob/Rchg(40), GrvAnc-Hold%(46)
Level 2: Frost Breath -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg(A), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(7), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(9), PstBls-Dam%(19)
Level 4: Kick -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A)
Level 6: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A)
Level 8: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Hover -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), WntGif-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng(11), WntGif-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng/EndRdx(11), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(13), Rct-ResDam%(45)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 14: Tough -- Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Ags-ResDam(15), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(17), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(19), Ags-EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 16: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(17)
Level 18: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A)
Level 20: Cauterizing Aura -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Prv-Heal(21), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(21), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(23), Prv-Heal/Rchg(23), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(50)
Level 22: Build Up -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 24: Fire Sword Circle -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(25), SprBlsWrt-Rchg/Dmg%(37), Erd-%Dam(37), Arm-Dam%(46)
Level 26: Ice Storm -- Rgn-Dmg(A), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(27), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), Rgn-Knock%(34), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(36)
Level 28: Bitter Freeze Ray -- SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), SprDfnBrr-Dmg/Rchg(29), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg(31), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 30: Combustion -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(50)
Level 32: Blizzard -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(33), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(34), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(34)
Level 35: Bonfire -- SuddAcc--KB/+KD(A)
Level 38: Burn -- Dmg-I(A), FuroftheG-Acc/Dmg(39), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(39), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(39), Erd-%Dam(40), ScrDrv-Dam%(46)
Level 41: Fire Shield -- Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Ags-ResDam(42), GldArm-3defTpProc(42), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(43), Ags-EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 44: Melt Armor -- AchHee-DefDeb(A), AchHee-DefDeb/Rchg(45), AchHee-ResDeb%(45)
Level 47: Bitter Ice Blast -- Apc-Dmg(A), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(48), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Apc-Dam%(50)
Level 49: Aim -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Defiance 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany 
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment 
Level 50: Reactive Core Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement 
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon 
------------

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Edited by 3333053222

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3 minutes ago, 3333053222 said:

Actually no, you actually GAIN 1.25% recharge. All I did was replace where you put Panacea (+health/end) from the Caut Aura to health, then take off the extra proc on BIB and then move it over to Caut Aura and replace it with Preventive Medicine and you gain 3% more fire resist and 1.5% recharge. 

Gotcha.   I didn't realize you mean't to move the slot back over to cauterizing, as I took it from cauterizing to fill ring of fire. 

 

I'm not exactly sure why you are so reluctant to take advice when posting a build that you stated was the most optimized, ice/fire, brute slaying competition for fire farms - literally several edits ago, and when you haven't even bothered to try it on the test server. lol.   But all good mate. 

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Just now, natewest1987 said:

Gotcha.   I didn't realize you mean't to move the slot back over to cauterizing, as I took it from cauterizing to fill ring of fire. 

 

I'm not exactly sure why you are so reluctant to take advice when posting a build that you stated was the most optimized, ice/fire, brute slaying competition for fire farms - literally several edits ago, and when you haven't even bothered to try it on the test server. lol.   But all good mate. 

I'm not reluctant at all, I've revised this build several times and admitted to flaws in my previous builds. And actually I would, except for the fact that incarnates and patron pools are currently unavailable in the Justin server. For me to use this without level shifts and no Degen plus no Ion Core and also no Assault would not give an accurate performance plus disable me from reaching the defense cap... so really... I can't test it.

 

However I have made fire/fire and I've also made ice/rad so I'm pretty sure I know how this plays out.

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2 minutes ago, Doomrider said:

Just curious... is there a particular reason people are still using Pines over Mid's Reborn? 

They're fairly interchangeable, a lot of it comes down to whichever one is more convenient for the user to open. For me, 2.21 pines is more accessible on my computer (in a file) than 2.23 is which is somewhat of a pain to find. 

 

2.23 is obviously superior and better but a lot of it comes down to convenience.

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I was reading the comments about "Burn" having a fear component. Why is that? I guess ONLY the Brute/Tank variant doesn't have it?

 

Quote

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Fiery_Aura

Burn was changed in Issue 18. The Fear component was removed, an initial damage hit was added, and the tick rate of DoT damage was decreased.

 

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Just now, Nayeh said:

I was reading the comments about "Burn" having a fear component. Why is that? I guess ONLY the Brute/Tank variant doesn't have it?

 

 

That's what I thought as well... I'm unsure at this point, from my personal anecdotal experience on 60 vet levels of Fire/Fire blaster, I haven't observed a fear or enemies running out of my Burn but perhaps it is there in some effect/form because others are saying it is. 

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Mids Reborn is updated to 2.6.0.3 now though, and I can't load half of the builds I see posted on the forums that are posted using old versions.

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3 minutes ago, Nayeh said:

I was reading the comments about "Burn" having a fear component. Why is that? I guess ONLY the Brute/Tank variant doesn't have it?

 

 

It is only because the effect summons a mini pet, which causes a low level of fear.   

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Just now, natewest1987 said:

It is only because the effect summons a mini pet, which causes a low level of fear.   

Do you know the Magnitude of fear?

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Just now, 3333053222 said:

Do you know the Magnitude of fear?

I don't, but it isn't very high.   My comments about fear were more directed towards hot feet, but I mentioned Burn because it also contributes to it, I guess by stacking with it.

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Here is the build for the person that solo'd a Master ITF at +4x8. Fire resist is lower than ideal for a farm, but everything else is there.

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.2
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Blaster
Primary Power Set: Ice Blast
Secondary Power Set: Fire Manipulation
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Ice Blast -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(3), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(5), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(7)
Level 1: Ring of Fire -- HO:Nucle(A)
Level 2: Fire Sword -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(7), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(11), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(11)
Level 4: Combustion -- Erd-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Erd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Erd-Dmg(13), Erd-Acc/Rchg(15), Erd-%Dam(15), Erd-Dmg/Rchg(33)
Level 6: Aim -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), RechRdx-I(21), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 8: Freeze Ray -- Apc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Apc-Acc/Rchg(43), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Apc-Dam%(43)
Level 10: Fire Sword Circle -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(17), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(17), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), Obl-%Dam(21)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 14: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(46)
Level 16: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 18: Bitter Ice Blast -- SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsWrt-Dmg/Rchg(23), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(25), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), SprBlsWrt-Rchg/Dmg%(27)
Level 20: Cauterizing Aura -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(A), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(27), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(29), Pnc-Heal(29), Pnc-Heal/+End(31)
Level 22: Ice Storm -- SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDfnBrr-Dmg/Rchg(48), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50), SprDfnBrr-Rchg/+Status Protect(50)
Level 24: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(31), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(45), Ags-ResDam(46), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 28: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(31)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Blizzard -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(33), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(34), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(36)
Level 35: Burn -- Arm-Dmg/Rchg(A), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Arm-Acc/Rchg(36), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Arm-Dam%(37), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(37)
Level 38: Hot Feet -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(39), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(40)
Level 41: Scorpion Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(42), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(42), ShlWal-Def(42)
Level 44: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(45)
Level 47: Tactics -- HO:Cyto(A)
Level 49: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Defiance 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 50: Agility Radial Paragon 
------------

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8 hours ago, Doomrider said:

Annihiliation proc is kinda garbage IMO. It isn't -20% as MID's advertises. In reality it's closer to 10% against even level enemies and in my testing it has certainly had less uptime when compared to Achilles or FotG in the same powers so I'm not confident the chance to proc is even on the same level as those. That being said, i believe you'd be better of slotting a dmg proc in lieu of the Anni proc.

Take a look at this screen shot. This was on test against even levels enemies with the character level shifted (hence the slightly higher value than I alluded to above). Look at the value compared to Achilles (also pictured). That value only gets small as the difficulty increases (likewise all -res debuffs).
Achilles is shown as -22.2 % where as Annihilation -13.88%.652726258_0oppachillesannihilation.thumb.png.7b4959c6be8230352b5a1fb8ba0576b3.png

Ok, I tested the Annihilation proc. It turns out, I was wrong about something, Annihilation proc is resistible just like the other resistance debuffs. Also, it is working (as of today anyways). I noticed on my power analyzer the calculation of the New Resistance after debuffs has a huge delay (like 1 second). It is possible that you took your screen shot too early and the effects of Annihilation were not calculated yet. I did a few videos and monitored my calculated resistances in power analyzer, and it all adds up correctly. For what it's worth, here are the results of one of my tests against a Lattice (Monster in Peregrine Island).

 

The Lattice has a base resistance of -40% Smash. It is 0% for Lethal, Fire, Cold, and Psionic. It is +20% for Energy and Negative Energy:

Resistance Debuff Test
Smash L/F/C/P E/NE   Piercing Rounds Annihilation Comments  
-40% 0% 20%   N/A N/A Base  
-68% -20% 4%   -20% N/A 1 stack, no proc  
-96% -40% -12%   -40% N/A 2 stacks, no proc  
-113.5% -52.5% -22%   -40% -12.5% 2 stacks, proc'd  
-85.5% -32.5% -6%   -20% -12.5% 1 stack, proc'd  

 

In every single combination, the formula works properly:

New Resistance = Base Resistance + (100% - Base Resistance)*(sum of all Resistance Debuffs).

For example, let's look at the 2 stacks plus the proc:

New Smash Resistance = -40% + (140%)*(-52.5%) = -113.5%

 

Now, full disclosure, I only analyzed the numbers that showed up in the power analyzer. I did not look at my combat log to confirm the damage taken by the enemy matches the stated resistances. That would be required to confirm everything works properly.

 

Edit, I went back and looked at the damage. It matches up perfectly. So mystery solved. Annihilation proc works exactly as advertised, 12.5% resistance debuff for 10 seconds at 3 PPM. It's not as good as Achilles' (20% debuff, 3.5 PPM), but it's still effectively a decent damage boost (boosts your proc damage as well) and it is easier to slot.

Edited by Bopper

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At this point, if you prefer more knockdown then slot OF in Ice Storm. If you want the res proc, put it in Ice Storm instead. One will make you deal slightly more damage, the other will make you more survivable. Your choice.

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11 hours ago, Bopper said:

Ok, I tested the Annihilation proc. It turns out, I was wrong about something, Annihilation proc is resistible just like the other resistance debuffs. Also, it is working (as of today anyways). I noticed on my power analyzer the calculation of the New Resistance after debuffs has a huge delay (like 1 second). It is possible that you took your screen shot too early and the effects of Annihilation were not calculated yet. I did a few videos and monitored my calculated resistances in power analyzer, and it all adds up correctly. For what it's worth, here are the results of one of my tests against a Lattice (Monster in Peregrine Island).

 

The Lattice has a base resistance of -40% Smash. It is 0% for Lethal, Fire, Cold, and Psionic. It is +20% for Energy and Negative Energy:

Resistance Debuff Test
Smash L/F/C/P E/NE   Piercing Rounds Annihilation Comments  
-40% 0% 20%   N/A N/A Base  
-68% -20% 4%   -20% N/A 1 stack, no proc  
-96% -40% -12%   -40% N/A 2 stacks, no proc  
-113.5% -52.5% -22%   -40% -12.5% 2 stacks, proc'd  
-85.5% -32.5% -6%   -20% -12.5% 1 stack, proc'd  

 

In every single combination, the formula works properly:

New Resistance = Base Resistance + (100% - Base Resistance)*(sum of all Resistance Debuffs).

For example, let's look at the 2 stacks plus the proc:

New Smash Resistance = -40% + (140%)*(-52.5%) = -113.5%

 

Now, full disclosure, I only analyzed the numbers that showed up in the power analyzer. I did not look at my combat log to confirm the damage taken by the enemy matches the stated resistances. That would be required to confirm everything works properly.

 

Edit, I went back and looked at the damage. It matches up perfectly. So mystery solved. Annihilation proc works exactly as advertised, 12.5% resistance debuff for 10 seconds at 3 PPM. It's not as good as Achilles' (20% debuff, 3.5 PPM), but it's still effectively a decent damage boost (boosts your proc damage as well) and it is easier to slot.

It's a decent DMG boost provided it actually procs and all you ever face is +0 enemies. As the difficulty goes up that debuff is going to get smaller and it's already pretty small at its base. This is part of the reason why I was saying it's not worth the slot. 

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1 hour ago, Doomrider said:

It's a decent DMG boost provided it actually procs and all you ever face is +0 enemies. As the difficulty goes up that debuff is going to get smaller and it's already pretty small at its base. This is part of the reason why I was saying it's not worth the slot. 

That holds true for all the procs. They scale similarly. So if it were to, let's say, add 10% to your kill speed against even level mobs, it would do the same for +4 mobs.  (edit, badly worded)

 

Now, if you dont want to slot it because it procs less often (3 ppm vs. 3.5 ppm), and because it procs for less (12.5% vs. 20% debuff),  then that's fine. I won't say it's useless, though, but it certainly is less impactful. Either way, slotting it would depend on the build.

Edited by Bopper

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11 minutes ago, Bopper said:

That holds true for all the procs. They scale similarly. So if it were to, let's say, add 10% to your kill speed against even level mobs, it would do the same for +4 mobs. 

 

Now, if you dont want to slot it because it procs less often (3 ppm vs. 3.5 ppm), and because it procs for less (12.5% vs. 20% debuff),  then that's fine. I won't say it's useless, though, but it certainly is less impactful. Either way, slotting it would depend on the build.

Sorry to be confused by this, but, is the value it debuffs at against +4 enemies the 12.5%, or is it whatever it scales to from originating at 12.5%? 

 

Edit: confused by the first paragraph in that quote lol.  Because you said it scales, so if it adds 10% against even level mobs but only 5% debuff or something off +4’s... how does it still add 10% clear time ?  Actually. I won’t get the math, but am I understanding that right ? 😑 lol

Edited by natewest1987

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6 minutes ago, natewest1987 said:

Sorry to be confused by this, but, is the value it debuffs at against +4 enemies the 12.5%, or is it whatever it scales to from originating at 12.5%? 

 

Edit: confused by the first paragraph in that quote lol.  Because you said it scales, so if it adds 10% against even level mobs but only 5% debuff or something off +4’s... how does it still add 10% clear time ?  Actually. I won’t get the math, but am I understanding that right ? 😑 lol

I definitely phrased it wrong. This is all I meant: 

Let's do an example with made up scales (because I dont know them).

 

At +0, the debuffs are 12.5% and 20% for annihilation and Achilles, respectively.

 

At +4, the debuffs are (we'll say) half, so 6.25% and 10%.

 

Let's assume these debuffs are always on,  how much damage will you do?

If no debuffs, let's assume 100 damage. So for +0 mobs, you now do 132.5.

 

If you do +4 mobs, you now do 116.25 damage. 

 

In both cases the added damage from Achilles is 60% more than the added damage from Annihilation, but the added damage for both is still reduced by higher mob levels. 

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3 hours ago, Bopper said:

I definitely phrased it wrong. This is all I meant: 

Let's do an example with made up scales (because I dont know them).

 

At +0, the debuffs are 12.5% and 20% for annihilation and Achilles, respectively.

 

At +4, the debuffs are (we'll say) half, so 6.25% and 10%.

 

Let's assume these debuffs are always on,  how much damage will you do?

If no debuffs, let's assume 100 damage. So for +0 mobs, you now do 132.5.

 

If you do +4 mobs, you now do 116.25 damage. 

 

In both cases the added damage from Achilles is 60% more than the added damage from Annihilation, but the added damage for both is still reduced by higher mob levels. 

gotcha, thanks for the clarification.   Still a 6% debuff is a 6% debuff.   if it procs I guess

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3 hours ago, Bopper said:

I definitely phrased it wrong. This is all I meant: 

Let's do an example with made up scales (because I dont know them).

 

At +0, the debuffs are 12.5% and 20% for annihilation and Achilles, respectively.

 

At +4, the debuffs are (we'll say) half, so 6.25% and 10%.

 

Let's assume these debuffs are always on,  how much damage will you do?

If no debuffs, let's assume 100 damage. So for +0 mobs, you now do 132.5.

 

If you do +4 mobs, you now do 116.25 damage. 

 

In both cases the added damage from Achilles is 60% more than the added damage from Annihilation, but the added damage for both is still reduced by higher mob levels. 

Also-- do you know if level shifts effect the scale of the debuff?

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On 9/6/2019 at 4:40 PM, Bopper said:

The formula is this:

New Resistance = Original + (1 - Original)×(Resistance Debuff)

 

If we only look at Achilles and Opportunity, we get:

35% + (65%)×(22.2%+5.55%) = 16.96%

25% + (75%)×(22.2%+5.55%) = 4.19%

 

This is exactly what the numbers show in your screenshot which implies there is no effect from the annihilation proc. I'll dig through on the Sentinel page (I think around page 3 or 4) I can show an example of annihilation having an effect (I'll link to it later). So I dont know what's different between then and now.

 

Edit: Link to what I was referencing earlier when annihilation proc did work: 

 

 

In that example, the original resistance is 20% and it shows debuffs of 5, 9.6, and 12.5. If we ignore annihilation again, we'd get the following:

New = 20% - (80%)×(9.6%+5%) = 8.32%. However the final is -3.68%. This means one of 2 things, either Annihilation is 15% and resistable, or it's 12% and unrisistable.

I’m no math guru, but on your Achilles + annihilation formula, shouldn’t your end number be bigger, as all I see is multiplication and addition, which makes things bigger, not smaller.

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