Jump to content
Leandro

Patch Notes for September 10th, 2019

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, QuiJon said:

Again I know how to raid. I know how to raid this hamidon, I led raids against pre-i9 hamidon. I was on the SG that first took him down on my server. But please forgive me for not being 25 years old anymore. Please forgive me for after working 11 hours and getting home and spending time with kids, and wife, and finally getting some diner and doing anything else that is being expect of me on any given day, if all I want to do is relax a bit by playing a video game I enjoy and check out from thinking  without having to take on the role of being a raid leader. And I know other people have real lives also.

 

A while back you all said you were gonna take a break from leading raids. I didnt bitch about that or throw some fit that you had to keep doing it. If someone doesnt want to lead they should not be forced to. But this is not that. This is a game mechanic specifically in place that prevents players from taking part in content that is already being played in a publicly open zone. And we are not locked out because the server can not handle the stress or any physical reason. We are locked out because of some out of date idea that this game has some recognizable sense of reward vs effort attached to it. 

 

Well this game, when being played as "intended" allows for 1 level 50 character to team with 7 level 5 characters who all stand at the door and do nothing and kill an entire map at +4 levels. In normal missions even not just AE content. It allows when being played as "intended" for AV strength and monster strength characters to be taken out by single heroes or villains. Players to solo TFs. and multiple other things that in any other game would have been nerfed out if they even made it to live. So I fail to see how saying that having a zone population that allows Hamidon to be zerged is breaking any reward mechanic in the game. So while I agree that I, or someone else could step up and lead a raid if we choose to, I am saying more why should we have to if the encounter is being fought already just to satisfy some bullshit idea that this game has balanced rewards mechanics?

And you don't think a 15 seconds Hami raid is boring? There is absolutely no work involved in a zerg Hami raid, just time spent forming up and spawning Hami.

 

You're complaining about something that was obviously completely broken and your argument about sometimes possibly being left out isn't a good one. Should task forces and incarnate trials be uncapped? No, that's stupid and illogical. There were only that many people showing up for the raids because it was ridiculously easy for a lot of rewards. I know many people who only showed up for the rewards, not because it was fun.  Stop blaming other players for this change when the Homecoming devs even admitted the increased zone cap was a bug.

 

I didn't even get into the terrible lag that comes along with having that many people in a single zone. Yes, it was still laggy with the 64-bit client.

Edited by Corruption

@Fiery Enforcer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Corruption said:

And you don't think a 15 seconds Hami raid is boring? There is absolutely no work involved in a zerg Hami raid, just time spent forming up and spawning Hami.

 

You're complaining about something that was obviously completely broken and your argument about sometimes possibly being left out isn't a good one. Should task forces and incarnate trials be uncapped? No, that's stupid and illogical. There were only that many people showing up for the raids because it was ridiculously easy for a lot of rewards. I know many people who only showed up for the rewards, not because it was fun.  Stop blaming other players for this change when the Homecoming devs even admitted the increased zone cap was a bug.

 

I didn't even get into the terrible lag that comes along with having that many people in a single zone. Yes, it was still laggy with the 64-bit client.

I didn't say I don't think it was boring, I said that I don't think the solution for that was to lock out players that want to take part. Find a way to include players and make it not boring. Hell even with only 50 players a MSR is still boring as hell I don't see how that has anything to do with players wanting to do something. They want the reward. 

 

First of all just because a ton of people started to fightin a raid doesn't immediately say it is broken. As I pointed out, one play fighting a map spawned for +4 and Eight players is also "broken" if you want to look closely at it. However absolutely NO attempt or suggestion has been made to say that needs to be fixed has it? Task forces and incarnate trials are instance missions and as such have a cap naturally. It is not the same thing as an enemy spawning in an open public zone having a limit put on it as to who can and can not take part in fighting it. Imagine if this was Lusca or Jack in Irons and you were not allowed to attack it because the game decided it would result in the monster taking to much damage to quickly. That is what this change is equivalent to. Most all playes only do anything for the reward so stop using the idea that the event is or isn't fun as a way to justify why you would want to do it. And honestly the more personalities in the zone, the more fun I have not because the fight itself is fun or not. Fighting that stupid rezing AV in an ITF isn't fun, it is done because it earns a reward. And even so that is not nearly as hard anymore as it used to be either, should we cut the team size of a ITF down to 3 to make it a challenge again?

 

The lag I will give you. I know that got bad with that many people. But it was not horrible at 100 people so why cut it off at 50? Heck is wasn't that bad at 150 people. But even so if you want to use lag as the argument then that still would say the level cap could be higher, atleast double then what it is. 

 

And homecoming devs never said there was a glitch until they fixed it. You can not tell me that devs that are also playing the game every day didn't notice that the zones had no caps on them for 5 months and never mentioned it or that it would eventually be fixed. You also can not tell me that it would take 4 months to fix this glitch if it was a glitch and not an intended change that they regretted later. It would not be difficult to slap in to any weekly update a change to the code that capped the population limit on the zone so if this was a mistake why would it take this long to fix. What happened was it was done intentionally. I wont argue that I am sure the consequences were unintended. But it has been broken for 5 months I don't see why a better fix could not have been done in that time, or if it really was just noticed why a fix has to be done immediately instead of looking at all options. Hell how long was the martial assault set broken and they didn't take that away from players. They know the base slash command is broken and they have not fixed that because there are other issues with the legit power they want to look at first before taking that away. The rewards offered in this game as all just made up stuff. It costs no one anything for it to be broken while they find a better fix. 

Edited by QuiJon
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, QuiJon said:

You can not tell me that devs that are also playing the game every day didn't notice that the zones had no caps on them for 5 months

I was told about the cap increase on Saturday and immediately reversed it. The "devs" don't play the game every day, and when we do it's most likely not in the production servers. Don't confuse GMs, who are in game constantly to help players, with "devs", who mostly experience the game through staring at code and near-empty test servers.

  • Like 8
  • Thanks 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Leandro said:

I was told about the cap increase on Saturday and immediately reversed it. The "devs" don't play the game every day, and when we do it's most likely not in the production servers. Don't confuse GMs, who are in game constantly to help players, with "devs", who mostly experience the game through staring at code and near-empty test servers.

I wonder, out of curiosity, roughly how many lines of code are there? For the server and separately for the client?

 

Separate from lines of code would, I think, be bytes of config data (where things like zone caps are stored) - my guess anyways, I only have experience with very small blocks of code.

 

While we all have our different views on how balance and other changes that come out impact our game play styles, I would hope we are all in strong agreement at the awesomeness that patches and upgrades are coming out.

 

Even were our wondrous dev's playing daily it does not mean they play the same way you or I do play. I am, sadly, burdened with a full blown case of alt-i-holisism and have only recently made it again to the Rickti War zone and not at all to The Hive. I didnt notice the cap had changed just by running missions, how would you?

 

Thank you again to everyone who makes this world work for us!!


** Asus Crosshair VI Hero, Ryzen 1800x, TridentZ 64GB DDR4 @ 3000, GTX 1080 ti, 48" 4K Samsung 3d & 56" 4k UHD, Storage:  WD-Blue 4TB, Intel M.2 NVME 500 GB On MOBO, StarTech PCIE 3.0 x4, 1x M.2 NVMe 1TB 2X M.2 SATA III [Crucial MX 500gb], [samsung Evo 850], Optical Asus BluRay Quad Layer 16x **

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, QuiJon said:

Again I know how to raid. I know how to raid this hamidon, I led raids against pre-i9 hamidon. I was on the SG that first took him down on my server. But please forgive me for not being 25 years old anymore. Please forgive me for after working 11 hours and getting home and spending time with kids, and wife, and finally getting some diner and doing anything else that is being expect of me on any given day, if all I want to do is relax a bit by playing a video game I enjoy and check out from thinking  without having to take on the role of being a raid leader. And I know other people have real lives also.

 

A while back you all said you were gonna take a break from leading raids. I didnt bitch about that or throw some fit that you had to keep doing it. If someone doesnt want to lead they should not be forced to. But this is not that. This is a game mechanic specifically in place that prevents players from taking part in content that is already being played in a publicly open zone. And we are not locked out because the server can not handle the stress or any physical reason. We are locked out because of some out of date idea that this game has some recognizable sense of reward vs effort attached to it. 

 

Well this game, when being played as "intended" allows for 1 level 50 character to team with 7 level 5 characters who all stand at the door and do nothing and kill an entire map at +4 levels. In normal missions even not just AE content. It allows when being played as "intended" for AV strength and monster strength characters to be taken out by single heroes or villains. Players to solo TFs. and multiple other things that in any other game would have been nerfed out if they even made it to live. So I fail to see how saying that having a zone population that allows Hamidon to be zerged is breaking any reward mechanic in the game. So while I agree that I, or someone else could step up and lead a raid if we choose to, I am saying more why should we have to if the encounter is being fought already just to satisfy some bullshit idea that this game has balanced rewards mechanics?

Someday, you may want to look back at this and say, huh, did I really kick up such a ruckus because they fixed the ATM machine that was spitting out 20s?  Dude, send me a PM and tell me what you were exploiting merits to buy.  I'll give you whatever you want so you can spend time with your family and spend less time defending whatever it is you want right now on the forums.

  • Like 4

[NPC] Sorcerer: You won't find a better deal.
[NPC] Sorcerer: I need a moment.
[NPC] Green Ink Man: These are excellent goods.
[NPC] Sorcerer: Your price is steep.

They put SUPERHEROES in my trading game?!?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not seeing it in the notes, but did this patch increase the price of all the rocket packs for the P2W vendor?   I don't remember them being 50K

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, tatmia said:

I'm not seeing it in the notes, but did this patch increase the price of all the rocket packs for the P2W vendor?   I don't remember them being 50K

The 30 minute jet packs are 5k, just like they've always been.  The other jet packs are 50k.  I don't recall exactly their price before, but I'm sure it was more than 5k, since the 30 minute jet pack was all my starting characters could afford.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Leandro said:

mostly experience the game through staring at code

download.jpg.5504b6f03a34bc37c7d3581ddb1402d5.jpg

  • Like 2
  • Haha 2

I used to play under the handle @Purple Clown.

I'm in the UK.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/10/2019 at 9:22 AM, Ukase said:

Look - I like reward merits, emp merits - all that stuff. But, I think if we look at the hamidon raid as it was "intended"...the original dev team never imagined that 4 leagues would just bum rush hamidon and win easily. It was never part of the thought process. 

Actually, they learned this very early in the game. The mission "Find who's supplying the Freakshow with the new weapons" mission that gives you the Nemesis Staff temporary power originally gave the temp power to whichever character opened the right crate. At the time, missions were infinitely resettsble, and the zone limit in the Hive was 240. A group of people assembly-lined running people through the mission to get a Nemesis Staff, then they took enough people to fill the Hive and performed a sub-two-minute Hami Raid, simply by rushing in and shredding him with NemStaff blasts.

 

The mission was quickly changed to give the Nemesis Staff temporary power to the mission holder, regardless of who opened the crate, and the temporary power was nerfed to make it single-target, rather than AoE. So, yes, the original dev team was perfectly aware that the Players would zerg Hamidon if they found a way to make it work.

 

And I remember some of the early Hami raids, where the lag when we finally massed on the nucleus was so bad that -- with Hasten active and AM stacked twelve or more times, powers could take several minutes to recharge for your tier 1 and 2 attacks.

Edited by srmalloy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/13/2019 at 4:25 PM, Leandro said:

I was told about the cap increase on Saturday and immediately reversed it. The "devs" don't play the game every day, and when we do it's most likely not in the production servers. Don't confuse GMs, who are in game constantly to help players, with "devs", who mostly experience the game through staring at code and near-empty test servers.

So you can data mine all this information from the live servers that we have been flooded with as to how many characters exist, how many player accounts, how many of each AT, how many of each power set, what their level ranges are, how many instances exist on the server at a time, what the population is at any given time, and for 5 months no one ever noticed that one zone in particular was hitting commonly a population level that was 4 times what it was supposed to be set at? 

Look even if I believe this and I find it hightly questionable, I still question the solution. So long as a instance gets a break down of certain ATs they need to complete a raid the raid is totally simple to do so long as people are willing to listen to directions. And capping the zone at 50 only actually means that 1 (ONE) round of mitos is commonly now taken out. So that 20 second raid now lasts 1 minute and 20 seconds because once the initial mitos spawn is down if you have smart players you can zerg through hamidon with still only 50 people and pets. (and I mean incarnate pets not even nukes or shivans) 

This is why I have vocally been cirtical of the change. The only real thing the change accomplishes is not to make the raid more difficult, but to at some point block people from being able to take part because not enough people come in for a raid to actually do it for another new instance that formed. And I would be willing to bet if you looked at all those numbers you can, every night since this change happened even if multiple isntances took down hamidon on the same server that at some point a new Hive spawned that capped out at just a few players. All those players were essentially blocked out from raiding because that zone never even got he chance to attempt a raid because of this change. And I feel like for an event in a open public zone that is not fair. People say "well THIS OR THAT is also instanced what is the difference" the difference is to do a ITF I don't need to find 49 other people that want to do it I need to find 7. And even if I only find 5 inmost cases can still do that TF or mission. Hamidon doesn't scale down to a 15 person raid any more then it scales up to a 200 person raid. 

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, QuiJon said:

So you can data mine all this information from the live servers that we have been flooded with as to how many characters exist, how many player accounts, how many of each AT, how many of each power set, what their level ranges are, how many instances exist on the server at a time, what the population is at any given time, and for 5 months no one ever noticed that one zone in particular was hitting commonly a population level that was 4 times what it was supposed to be set at?

Different people do different things. I had nothing to do with that datamine collection, that's not my thing. Cipher has nothing to do with setting zone cap limits. No single person is aware of every aspect of both development and server management; whoever noticed the zone cap increase never told me, and so far I haven't heard any other developer say they knew about it.

Edited by Leandro
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, QuiJon said:

This is why I have vocally been cirtical of the change.


You've been vocally critical of it because, as you've told us at great length, it's personally inconvenient for you.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...