issue 26 Patch Notes for September 10th, 2019

[hotbroccoli]

While Indom was able to get Hami down in the Hive2 - the whole atmosphere changed and I will miss that "festive" experience of uncapped zones. 😞

[QuiJon]

3 hours ago, Foxfyre said:

There's a difference between spawning hami and then intentionally bringing him to triple bloom status and a "failed raid".

It would be up to the GM's to determine the difference.  And they can watch you without you even knowing they are there.

I prefer that we don't ask our volunteer GMs to start making that determination on "intent". If they have enough people together to get hamidon to a spawn or two then you can easily argue that they had enough people to attempt a valid raid right? So at that point you really are talking about guessing a groups intent.

[QuiJon]

2 hours ago, Apparition said:

 

They kind of already can, by flooding the zone with players until a second zone is forced open.  Which a lower zone cap actually helps.

And so then what happens when I am in the first zone, being flooded to spawn the second, and they say to change zones but I cant make it in time and someone coming in fresh gets a spot and I get locked out after waiting for like 20 minutes while the zone filled up? Might only be a couple people a raid but you know it will happen as the change is called while people are still entering the zone.

 

[Foxfyre]

Ok so we just had our raids tonight.

 

A few thoughts:

Yes, there were some complainers after we finished the first raid.  How they didn't think we should have to go back to doing it the old way and how it was "slow" now.  And i don't fault them for thinking that way, especially for those who'd never done Hami's back on Live.

For those who stayed through tho.....people's minds actually started changing.  People mostly stopped complaining and a lot of people who were on voice (a lot hop on our Discord for voice chat during the raids) started saying they were having more fun than they'd had in quite a while doing Hami raids.

While the sense of community is definitely increased from having more people in the zone at once, there was also a pretty big sense of it from everyone having to work together doing it this way as well.

We completed 3 raids tonight successfully.  Hive 2 attempted a raid but did not finish.  I'm not sure we'll shoot for 3 every night, as each raid now takes 20+ minutes, but we'll likely still do at least 2 per night going forward.

Once everyone gets trained up in the old school method, raids should start getting even faster (a lot of time was spent giving instructions) and we might get back to doing 3 consistently again.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Foxfyre

[Foxfyre]

11 minutes ago, QuiJon said:

I prefer that we don't ask our volunteer GMs to start making that determination on "intent". If they have enough people together to get hamidon to a spawn or two then you can easily argue that they had enough people to attempt a valid raid right? So at that point you really are talking about guessing a groups intent.

You missed my point about how they can watch you without you even knowing they are there.  They can be completely invisible.

If they watch a group triple bloom Hami and then immediately bail then it doesn't take a genius to judge intent.

[PaxArcana]

1 minute ago, Foxfyre said:

If they watch a group triple bloom Hami and then immediately bail then it doesn't take a genius to judge intent.

... so you want our very few, all-volunteer GMs to spend the whole night, every night, invisibly watching every Hami raid on the off-chance that maybe one of them might get griefed?

[BlastLord]

I've seen the old hami raids getting griefed by a player name ERIK THE GREAT pulled GMs into hami and causes wips.

[Foxfyre]

1 minute ago, PaxArcana said:

... so you want our very few, all-volunteer GMs to spend the whole night, every night, invisibly watching every Hami raid on the off-chance that maybe one of them might get griefed?

Nope.  Sure don't.

[PaxArcana]

Just now, Foxfyre said:

Nope.  Sure don't.

Then why bother insisting that they could/would/should do exactly that?

[Grimmly]

1 hour ago, hotbroccoli said:

While Indom was able to get Hami down in the Hive2 - the whole atmosphere changed and I will miss that "festive" experience of uncapped zones. 😞

I joined the raid on Indom in Hive 1, which was formed by the same player who's been forming the Hamikaze raids for a couple of weeks.

 

Thought it would go well, saw few old timers. Then the Leader started PM'ing me questions about how to do the old school method and eventually conned me into taking lead (something I quit doing months ago as i hate dealing with people who simply cannot read or follow directions).

 

NP I thought, I've led raids before Hamikaze became a thing.

 

Went over instructions, asked for Ranged, Melee and CC leads..... and a Hami Taunter and pocket healer for him/her just in case......... Dead Silence. Start to get a bad feeling.

Asked again...... only response was several asking if they could start GMs now. Apprehension grows.

 

Fine I thought, I'll just assign the color leaders. Picked 3 I had seen at raids regularly for a few months..... then repeated instructions. Green leader (with 35+ vet levels) PM's me to ask what CC means. Voice in my head says "Weeee'sa gonna DIE!"

 

Carefully explain once again, instructing ranged, control and melee to follow their leads while Hami Tank holds his attention (while this is happening several are off fighting GM's and spamming about when are we gonna start.  Maybe I should have stayed for the second MSR I think to myself.

 

Go over instructions one last time, give orders to start GM's and boom game crashes...... Guardian Angel looking over me maybe? Logging back in I'm bombarded by tells asking why I quit, explain i didn't but am in Hive 2 now. Exit and try to enter Hive 1 which it let me do (a fact I'll later regret). New leader throws League lead back at me like it's hot.

 

Notice in coalition chat a well known Raid leader just asked if there is room on raid, noting one of the impatient members of league has left I invite her, sending her a tell that I'll give league lead as soon as she zones in. But NOPE Hive1 now full she's locked out and gets to go to Hive 2, lucky her.

 

Hami Spawns, we regroup at rock, I post color leads in chat once more and remind everyone to keep their EoE buff up..... and immediately get several tells asking what an EoE buff is....... I pour myself a double whiskey.

 

I Begin count down..... 5... 4.... 3.... 2.... (several members suddenly die having raced ahead) 1.... Dive!

 

I see several ranged players following the melee lead, 2-3 more people just die from terminal ignorance..... main tank flatlines (seems his pocket healer/buffer forgot how to heal/buff). NP we can recover I think.... Hami laughs at me.

 

We get most of the blues down somehow by my third EoE, note people still at rock. Finish my whiskey.

 

Blues down, on to yellows..... Main tank has ceased all attempts at taunting and Hami is knocking us around like bowling pins.

 

Yellows down at last.... attempt to start on greens, no dice. Half of league is down or returning from hospital. CC group is scattered or posting on twitter.

 

I Yell for everyone to retreat and regroup, make it back to rock with maybe 2% health remaining....... TWO people listened and followed me.... TWO!!!!

Time for another whiskey.

 

Few minutes (and many deaths later) I manage to get everyone back to rock, just greens and Hami Left. Announce that we will start with closest Green Mito and work clockwise.... amazingly we kill all greens without a hiccup this time and start on Hami. I feel a small surge of hope...... foolish me.

 

At the 75% mark I Yell for everyone to withdraw...... get back to rock with the 2/3s of league that managed to suddenly develop reading skills in the last 10 minutes.... we watch the Illiterate die. Several players quit, declaring this is too hard and not fair, including the guy who formed the league to begin with.

Second whiskey gone.....

 

Finally those who remain regroup, we launch second dive and things get even worse..... Main Tank quits mid dive. Attacking blues, 1 down.... I die beneath Hami's gelatinous heel. Rez, die... get rezzed manage to pop my last EoE (started with 10) as I'm reduced to near death again. Have ranged people attacking greens, yellows, woodchucks.... bushes who looked at them funny. Basically everything except what ranged lead is targeting.

 

I go back to rock, open ouro, hit quit league. 

 

In Ouro, I pour another whiskey which I sip as I write "REMEMBER..... Do NOT volunteer for Hami League lead again" on a post-it note and put it over my monitor.

 

Join a Few BaFs, and an ITF and enjoy killing crap for another hour or so.

 

 

R.I.P. Hamikaze

[Profit]

Hamikaze is still more than possible. But now it takes some planning. You wanna hamikaze? Make sure everyone knows it's a hamikaze and goes to warburg and loads up on nukes. Follow the same strategy as normal hamikaze except everyone fires off nukes first. Once all those nukes go, you can literally have the league set brawl to auto and are almost guaranteed a win.

 

Otherwise, be glad your doing weakened hami instead of pre I9 hami where each raid takes 2+ hours and you have the sinking feeling that a yellow dawn is imminent. Cause honestly, until you've spent the 5+ hours clearing a yellow dawn, you shouldn't be complaining. (And yes, it took us 5+ hours one night to clear, and we stayed and cleared it because we didn't want to be the group that didn't clean up their mess, plus there was an afternoon raid scheduled the next day.)

[QuiJon]

3 hours ago, Foxfyre said:

You missed my point about how they can watch you without you even knowing they are there.  They can be completely invisible.

If they watch a group triple bloom Hami and then immediately bail then it doesn't take a genius to judge intent.

If I was in a group that I thought was borderline on the edge of being able to do it to begin with and we got a double or triple spawn and wiped I would probably leave. If we didnt have enough to do it before we certainly would not now. Doesnt mean I didnt hope to complete it.

[EyeLuvBooks]

21 hours ago, Apparition said:

 

Praise the Lord Jesus Christ!  Thank you! 

And this pretty much kills Mother Ship Raids now. You might have a team of 6-8 doing actual missions in the RWZ. Someone calls for an MSR. 42 people fill the League and now the next 6 can't get in. One of the team of 8 leaves to get stuff from their base, one more joins the League and now the guy from the team can't get in. Oh, but now there's a second zone! So...what...the whole team of people who were in-zone first now have to move to another zone?

 

Look, I get that some people were beating Hami's ass like a bongo drum the past few weeks and that needs to stop but how about a cap of 60? Prevents a whole second league from forming and also prevents the situation I just outlined above.

[Squid Vicious]

6 hours ago, Foxfyre said:

... We completed 3 raids tonight successfully.  Hive 2 attempted a raid but did not finish.  I'm not sure we'll shoot for 3 every night, as each raid now takes 20+ minutes, but we'll likely still do at least 2 per night going forward ...

Last night's movie was called, "Revenge of the Hami" ... at least for the Excelsior:  Hive 2 peeps.    😛

 

I very much appreciated FoxFyre and a few more of the Hive 1 peeps who (after pwning their Jello) zoned over to Hive 2 to assist.   

 

Unfortunately, too many folks were unfamiliar with the old-school mechanics, and jumped ship.   Plus, there were never really any focus fire leads established through which to target (this is essential it seems to me).   We were on the verge of something good, though and were beginning to push past the second bloom of Mitos and just DPSing Hami down, but it just wasn't enough.   😑

[RayZac]

On 9/10/2019 at 3:32 AM, Leandro said:

 

• Fixed a bug where Illusion pets were ignoring enhancements.

Sudden Acceleration KB to KD slotted in Phantasm doesn't seem to be working as I'd expect. Yellow+ enemies still seem to be getting KB by attacks about 1/2 of the time. Maybe working as intended?

On the subject of Phantasm... it seems to have gotten significantly squishier.

[Apparition]

Two The Hive maps spawned on Excelsior server last night.  Tuesday nights are my tabletop gaming night, so I didn't make it into The Hive 1, but I made it into The Hive 2 after the raid had already started.  From what I have been told, the raid leader in The Hive 2 was completely unfamiliar with the normal Hamidon raid strategies to the point where he ordered the meleers to take down the blue mitos.  Most of those in The Hive 2 never did a normal Hamidon raid either.  After a couple of wipes, most left.

 

Then I came, bringing 20 EoEs with me since they were fresh out.  We gave it another go.  League wipe, causing a double bloom.  Then some of those that finished in The Hive 1 came to help out, (thank you!)  We gave it another go.  I think I died four more times in that round.  We just didn't have the DPS as too many had already left over the previous half hour.  Eventually, the raid in The Hive 2 was called.

 

It was GREAT!  Sure, we lost.  So did many other Hamidon raids back in the day.  It's a learning curve, like any other raid.  It helped teach people that were willing to learn the actual raid mechanics and to respect The Hamidon. :D

 

After over a month of staying away from the Zerg Hamidon raids, I look forward to Hamidon raiding again on occasion, and plan to be there again tonight.  I look forward to it, whether we succeed or not.

[Apparition]

1 hour ago, EyeLuvBooks said:

And this pretty much kills Mother Ship Raids now. You might have a team of 6-8 doing actual missions in the RWZ. Someone calls for an MSR. 42 people fill the League and now the next 6 can't get in. One of the team of 8 leaves to get stuff from their base, one more joins the League and now the guy from the team can't get in. Oh, but now there's a second zone! So...what...the whole team of people who were in-zone first now have to move to another zone?

 

Look, I get that some people were beating Hami's ass like a bongo drum the past few weeks and that needs to stop but how about a cap of 60? Prevents a whole second league from forming and also prevents the situation I just outlined above.

 

Uh... you do realize that mothership raids in RWZ were a thing when the zone was capped to 50 from 2007 through 2012, yes?  I lead at least two a week for years.

 

It will be fine.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Apparition

[CabooseCC]

21 hours ago, Shadeknight said:

The zone cap being dropped to 50 will make Hamidon useless to run. A dedicated leecher will just follow the raid to the Abyss.

Sure, it forces one to do all three mito phases "right" but this screams "NO FUN ALLOWED." to the maximum degree.

Maybe the fix here is to just have several more large scale raids like this in other zones with similar profit margins that way everyone isnt just hopping on the hammi train.  Leechers are just the risk you take when you do that raid.  I've never leeched, but have also never been bothered by their presence, but that's mostly because I roll with a competent league.

[Robotech_Master]

3 hours ago, EyeLuvBooks said:

And this pretty much kills Mother Ship Raids now. You might have a team of 6-8 doing actual missions in the RWZ. Someone calls for an MSR. 42 people fill the League and now the next 6 can't get in. One of the team of 8 leaves to get stuff from their base, one more joins the League and now the guy from the team can't get in. Oh, but now there's a second zone! So...what...the whole team of people who were in-zone first now have to move to another zone?

Well, they can all just meet up inside their next mission, and then all exit to the same zone together. Heck, once they've entered the mission and left the zone, it'll fill to the point where they have to exit into the other zone when the mission completes anyway.

 

What's the hardship for a single team to have to change zones? A few extra clicks and a little annoyance? It's not like what zone a task force team is in matters to them one way or the other.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Robotech_Master

[Foxfyre]

5 hours ago, QuiJon said:

If I was in a group that I thought was borderline on the edge of being able to do it to begin with and we got a double or triple spawn and wiped I would probably leave. If we didnt have enough to do it before we certainly would not now. Doesnt mean I didnt hope to complete it.

Oh dear god.....will you read what I said???

I said if a group triple bloomed Hami and then promptly bailed.  Not died.  Not failed.  INTENTIONALLY ALL LEFT THE GOO.

Come on man....it's not rocket science.

[Foxfyre]

1 hour ago, Apparition said:

Two The Hive maps spawned on Excelsior server last night.  Tuesday nights are my tabletop gaming night, so I didn't make it into The Hive 1, but I made it into The Hive 2 after the raid had already started.  From what I have been told, the raid leader in The Hive 2 was completely unfamiliar with the normal Hamidon raid strategies to the point where he ordered the meleers to take down the blue mitos.  Most of those in The Hive 2 never did a normal Hamidon raid either.  After a couple of wipes, most left.

 

Then I came, bringing 20 EoEs with me since they were fresh out.  We gave it another go.  League wipe, causing a double bloom.  Then some of those that finished in The Hive 1 came to help out, (thank you!)  We gave it another go.  I think I died four more times in that round.  We just didn't have the DPS as too many had already left over the previous half hour.  Eventually, the raid in The Hive 2 was called.

 

It was GREAT!  Sure, we lost.  So did many other Hamidon raids back in the day.  It's a learning curve, like any other raid.  It helped teach people that were willing to learn the actual raid mechanics and to respect The Hamidon. 😄

 

After over a month of staying away from the Zerg Hamidon raids, I look forward to Hamidon raiding again on occasion, and plan to be there again tonight.  I look forward to it, whether we succeed or not.

Make sure to be early so you get in Hive 1!  

[Foxfyre]

21 hours ago, Shadeknight said:

The zone cap being dropped to 50 will make Hamidon useless to run. A dedicated leecher will just follow the raid to the Abyss.

Sure, it forces one to do all three mito phases "right" but this screams "NO FUN ALLOWED." to the maximum degree.

For what it's worth, at least on Excelsior last night.....something happened that I didn't expect.

All the freeloaders and leechers didn't even bother to show up.  It was weird.  We used to have a group of about 10 people all with the same SG name who would huddle off all by themselves, never join league, never interact with anyone......they weren't there last night.  Nor any of the others.  So, the leechers might, for the most part, stay away.

[Abraxus]

I'm not criticizing anyone here.  However, I do recall a lot of chatter about how the game has gotten WAY to easy.  Now that a large group endeavor has been made more challenging, most of what I'm seeing is that it's too hard.  The thing is, as I recall, it's supposed to be hard.  There is supposed to be significant risk of failure, to make the reward something well earned.  It forced cohesion, teamwork, and strategy to win.  Granted, that might be something of a rarity in a lot of the content, but please don't complain about a challenge when presented one.  Adapt, and overcome...or don't do it. 

 

In the immortal words of Jimmy Dugan "The HARD is what makes it worth doing".

[Foxfyre]

For anyone trying it again tonight who might want a refresher on Hami strategy.....I wrote up a full guide for it a while back.

 

 

[Foxfyre]

1 minute ago, Abraxus said:

I'm not criticizing anyone here.  However, I do recall a lot of chatter about how the game has gotten WAY to easy.  Now that a large group endeavor has been made more challenging, most of what I'm seeing is that it's too hard.  The thing is, as I recall, it's supposed to be hard.  There is supposed to be significant risk of failure, to make the reward something well earned.  It forced cohesion, teamwork, and strategy to win.  Granted, that might be something of a rarity in a lot of the content, but please don't complain about a challenge when presented one.  Adapt, and overcome...or don't do it. 

 

In the immortal words of Jimmy Dugan "The HARD is what makes it worth doing".

The funny part is the Hami encounter is still balanced to SO's.  So it's not "hard" still anyway.