kryori
-
Posts
14 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Store
Articles
Patch Notes
Posts posted by kryori
-
-
11 hours ago, Sovera said:
Tankers do substantial damage for actual gameplay. While leveling I hit Build-up, use my two PbAoEs and all minions are dead and lieutenants are at half HP. Can other ATs do this? Yes. Can they even do more? Yes. Do they more damage? Also yes. Does this mean Tankers hit like crap and it's a slow whittling of enemies? No.
That just is not remotely my experience.
I just came from playing a mid-40s Inv/SS Tank, and Rage + Foot Stomp into a pack of +2 Crey leaves half the minions knocked down but still hanging on. I'm left to clean them up with single target attacks, I'm struggling to manage endurance with all the toggles plus the need to swing so many times. My late-30s SD/SS brute fares better, but the teleport -> foot stomp opener is only available every 90s.
I ran +2 Citadel with each of them over the weekend and both performed poorly, in that either my teammates were in so little danger that nobody needed to do anything but hit a blaster T9 or they had managed to pull several packs and were crumbling from behind me, something I could do little to manage.
By comparison my Ars/Kin ran the same content effortlessly, preemptively neutering packs of adds and locking down anything firing into the back line while boosting offense through the roof. I felt I had an impact, and kept Vandal held throughout the final confrontation just as effectively as I might have done on a tank.
I'm not going to offer to tank MoLRSF with a controller, but for general purpose gameplay I just don't see how you're getting damage out of a tank, especially during leveling when you can't rely on IO set boosts. I'm willing to believe that I'm just bad at building tanks, but if slotting acc/dam/dam/end in attacks and end/res/res or end/def/def in toggles is bad building I guess the game has just changed greatly since I last played melee.
-
1 hour ago, Sovera said:
In terms of damage they are toe-to-toe which has made many Brutes very sad. This is mostly due to a complete abuse of procs and tossing as much as four or even six into all attacks and then rely on a mix of incarnates and a Tanker's innate higher defense to not need to spend as much into shoring said defenses with IOs. Brutes do more damage, but then lose that edge by spending more of their slotting budget shoring their defenses, and even then they will have gaps which buffers need to cover.
Damn. If you can build a tank to hit as hard as a brute, someone made some bad balance choices somewhere along the line.
Guess I'll just drop it and play other classes for the time being, because whether they're optimal on paper or not, mine feels bad to play in practice, especially coming from something like FFXIV where a tank controls an encounter and deals substantial damage at the same time.
-
48 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:
None of those other ATs hold aggro so well as a Tanker and none of them, not even Brutes, is likely to survive near so well either.
Brutes have the same resistance and defense caps, don't they? Both have access to the same taunts, and defenses are easier to shore up with IO sets than offense. My understanding is that Brutes have higher base damage and Fury where tanks have lower base damage but higher target caps on their abilities - but that higher target cap doesn't help when you're dealing with so many targets that you can't hit them all to keep them off your team.
-
48 minutes ago, Snarky said:
Controllers are great. very powerful. way less damage than tanks, which... nvm enjoy
Fulcrum Shift.
-
1
-
-
27 minutes ago, Snarky said:
and after listening to us argue for 3 pages. You got any ideas? Because yes, A Sentinel has the same agro cap as a Tank. Now tank the AV with it in a MoMLTF....
After listening to you argue about fire blasters in a thread about tanking I didn't learn much of value, but I was able to pick up some insight into alternatives that might be more to my liking, yes.
Trying an Arsenal/Kinetics controller right now and it's almost what I had hoped for, if only the confuse power which is described as a "stealth" effect didn't alert enemies. I can almost have the power to both neuter an alpha strike and actually keep my team safe once things get more complex than "dive into pack, hit footstomp".
But I keep being misread and don't want folks who have other interesting ideas to have to slog down through your entire petty argument, so I'm summarizing my thoughts for a few of the latecomers.
-
8 hours ago, Ironblade said:
The tank's job is to manage the enemies that can one-shot people or throw an AoE that devastates half the team.
Sure, but my complaint isn't that tanks can't do this, it's that many ATs can do this - Brutes, notably, with higher damage and quicker access to their AOEs, but also Scrappers, and even well-IO'd crabs and masterminds, especially if incarnate pools are available. Maybe this isn't the case in four-star advanced missions, but I no longer see my tanks as a good choice for either taking alpha strikes or dealing with AVs, so I'm looking for a better AT to defuse alpha strikes and keep mobs who can mez or fire AOEs off of squishy teammates.
-
Well I'm glad that's working out for you, but it doesn't help much to have a greater ability to tank for nobody. If you're solo literally anything will keep all the agro off your team.
-
1
-
-
10 minutes ago, Neiska said:
The TLDR is that each pet can aggro "around" 6 mobs each. This is in addition to the 12 mobs the mastermind themselves can engage. So, 6 pets at 6 enemies each, that's 36 mobs. Plus the 12 for the mastermind, is 48 mobs. In theory.
Okay, and that sounds excellent, but in testing with my Bot/Time and Demon/Dark MMs, it seems damn near impossible to get them to do anything as far as controlling targets when a player so much as brushes past the thing they're hitting with a damage aura running or grazes them with a rain of fire/water/etc. Is there a way to cause your minions to consistently draw agro off other players, or does this only work in a solo AE farming environment?
-
3 hours ago, Sovera said:
Based on our conversation I think you'd like to play a Plant whatever. Controller if you want further buffing the team, Dominator if you want to do damage instead. All because Plant has an absurdly OP power in Seeds of Confusion that can be made to recharge in 15-20 seconds and that basically CCs a whole group. AND it's available at level 8 😛
I'll have to give this one some thought - my primary corrupter is rad/kin and my primary dominator is plant/psy so I've played the sets individually, but both my Ice/Kin controller and my Fire/Kin controller got shelved shortly after 50 for being boring to play and "win more" sorts of characters - they don't feel like they can make a bad team viable the way rad/kin or plant/psy can. Getting all of the non-boss spawns entirely off the agro table while letting the team crutch SB + Fulcrum for end/damage might be enough to make a Controller feel worthwhile, though, especially if I can get some damage in the epic pool.
-
1 hour ago, Snarky said:
You are saying Tanks can't manage agro. That another AT would definitely be better.
For what it's worth, I'm not saying that tanks can't manage agro. I'm saying that they can't manage agro any better than an AT with better damage. Their primary powerset is defensive, that degree of defense is unnecessary in a post-IO world, and the only other thing I see mine bringing to the team these days is subpar damage, so I'm looking for ways to fulfill the role of a tank without playing the AT "Tank".
-
1
-
-
3 minutes ago, Sovera said:
I'm not sure how to parse your question. On one hand you ask which AT is best for tanking but then lead by saying you want to hold agro on more than 17 mobs.
I'm not necessarily trying to hold agro on 16+, I'm trying to prevent more than 16 targets from going after the rest of the team - traditionally this was stuff like kiting a whole map yourself and diving into a dumpster to break LOS on a pack of werewolves, turning a hard corner into a location-based knockdown patch like Ice/ or Fire Control bring, stuff that didn't require a hard taunt to keep an enemy from firing at the group. That kind of approach leads to any little tickle of damage spreading packs of foes across my entire team, leaving me running around meleeing things one by one and getting no value out of my AOEs; it makes it feel bad to be playing a tank.
So I'm looking for ways to 1) soak an alpha strike and 2) keep squishes from being hit by stray mezzes, grenades, etc - the things that aren't dangerous to a melee AT but can take a ranged AT out of the fight. I don't think playing a Tank is a good way to do that anymore, so I'm asking for recommendations on how to deal with large numbers of targets without losing the ability to soak that initial retaliation from a 54x8 sized pack in a TF.
-
1
-
-
I'm curious to see what sorts of solutions people have come up with for handling multiple packs and which ATs work best for dealing with agro cap problems.
I'm returning after 5ish years, and it looks to me like the threat cap has been clamped way down on Homecoming. This keeps a tank from holding threat on more than 16 targets, taunts or no taunts. In an 8 player TF/SF this means it only takes one extra pack to have problems a tank can't solve with agro on the healer, on anyone who used a rain power, etc.
That makes my tanks feel about as useful as a brute or scrapper in most situations- if you're just there to get your face smashed by the EB/AV during the period where they can't be controlled, you don't need the overkill levels of defense and resistance that tanks trade damage for.
I'm not sure how best to handle this as an individual who wants to defuse alpha strikes and manage agro as a primary role in a team. It seems like the best plan is to eschew something like a Invuln/SS Tank for a Spines/Fire Brute, because burning down all the minions gives you more space in your agro cap to actually tank the boss/lt mobs and occasional EBs.
I've also been eyeing Mastermind sets and considering soaking the alpha in bodyguard mode, then letting agro fall where it may and hoping that 6 extra bodies are enough to soak up stray attention while I focus on support.
The best option seems to be relying on Confuse, which avoids the agro cap by having enemies agro one another rather than a tank, but reliable AOE Confuse powers seem limited to Plant, Mind, and maybe Arsenal control sets. That means playing a Dom or Controller, which can't soak an alpha strike themselves - you get a 'sleep it first' playstyle that feels awful in group content. If I could get a solid AOE confuse on a MM that would be ideal but I don't see a way to do that.
Has anyone had success in keeping all the fire off the squishies? What approach, and what AT, worked best for you?
-
1
-
-
Glad you went with OVH - I've been using them as a host for years and have nothing but praise for them.
Oh, and of course I threw a chunk of cash at you. Looks like that bill's going to be obliterated in a hurry.
ARS VS AV AND CONTAINMENT
in Controller
Posted
If it's not too much trouble - how would you soak the alpha in something like a 54x8 TF/SF on an Arsenal controller? Is that all down to /dark's Fade? If I could soak an alpha my Ars/Kin would feel damn near perfect, but as it is the smoke's confuse seems to agro targets who have not yet noticed my team, and when they start returning fire, they're aiming at me, not my tanky pet. Got up to 50 and ready to start unlocking incarnates and patron pools, still working on what to IO and budget for, but I've not been able to soak a serious alpha strike on that toon.