Morgrum
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Posts posted by Morgrum
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You know what you guys are right lets just nerf every attack set down to Energy Melee regardless of what penalties the sets have because of IO's which break the game and untested set combos throwing the game off that way every ones miserable.
I know how the set plays I have been playing it for quite awhile it is no where near what you guys are saying it is.
And there is obviously no way of getting you to understand that because you keep pointing at Spreedsheets, Pylon test, broken combos apex runs, and Mid's and going SEE SEE!
It is good mind you but not omg I cannot play anything else.
I run routinely with 3 other tankers 2 SS/Invuln and a EM/Shields and I look at them enviously for what they are capable of doing.
Beyond this post I am out because there is no talking reason of how things work in game to folks who play math-hammer and I am at work having spent to much time on these forums already when I should be working.
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1 minute ago, Galaxy Brain said:
Missing due to other players killing the enemy isn't unique to TW though. Just play any PUG where people spam Judgements, or earlier where nukes or strong AoEs are whipped around. This may be coming from a biased perspective, but it seems in that example you are pulling first and swinging second where I generally play with Brutes or Scrappers that swing first. That said, that is a very big concern for Tankers using the set who may not be swinging first to get momentum rolling outside of Build Momentum.
Which is its biggest drawback for Tankers like myself.
When Build Momentum is up I can hit it stutter step and jump in to grab aggro.
When it isn't I have to rely on my Taunt Aura and Taunt.
This is a serious drawback to TW versus say SS Footstomp or Electric melees aoes.
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1 minute ago, Hopeling said:
With a 15-foot radius? I can't think of any besides stuff like nukes. Can you give an example?
Something like Spin does more damage, sure, but that has an 8-foot radius instead of 15. As I pointed out six pages ago now, Whirling Smash does the same damage as Foot Stomp, with a faster animation and a shorter recharge, even though Foot Stomp itself already breaks the damage formula.
Whirling Smash isn't the #1 most damaging AoE, but its combination of damage, recharge, and area are unmatched.
Whirling blade also needs a prep ability to be allowed to use it which other skills do not.
That is a factor your not including.
As is TW's use in groups where you start attacks that miss or lost because of your animation times.
I cannot tell you how many times I have had pulls die around me while I am in an animation only to try and get to the next group to start drawing aggro with Taunt and a slow attack.
The numbers you guys keep presenting are numbers based in a vacuum and not the reality of playing the game.
Another thing I and others have posted before here but was ignored outright.
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10 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:
Not at all. Only that your numbers are misleading. They present the fact that most people don't make it to 50 on Titan Weapons and posits that it's because it sucks at lower levels and gets good later because it's #1 at 50.
But the most popular set overall, which does really nice damage and is good pretty much from the get-go and strong all the way to post-50, only has a 1 in 26 ratio of being played to 50. While Titan Weapons, the 7th most popular set, gets to 50 1 in 12 plays.
It could be "It's better at end-game and sucks at low levels" just as easily "It holds attention better" because this game -runs rampant- with Altitis and the majority of characters stall out around 32-44.
Unless we intend to posit that it has a larger number of people who PL it to 50 and just play it at high end 'cause that's the only way it's "worth" playing. But we'd need some different numbers for that. Specifically good would be 'Time Played' on Titan Weapons characters compared to other character/set combo.
In short: Needs more Datas and drawing conclusions from 2 datapoints is bad.
I will completely agree with that on both points we do need more data.
And not Pylon, apex Bio armor test...… I still hold that the issue we are having with melee sets having insane dps is due to Bio combos.
TW's is the third of my 8 Incarnates but since he is a Tanker he is naturally my main.
I have just gravitated to Tankers since Beta.
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10 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:
This is going into outside meta, but Spine/Fire is much easier to play and *farm* with given specific content catered to it. When you can easily mop up a farm catered to your set with less effort, people will gravitate to that even if other sets can crank out more DPS that takes more attention.
TW/Fire will be able to do much more content than Spines/Fire will, but Spine/Fire is what is advertised as the AE farming build to use to make bank and people will flock to it. I dont think I have actually seen one in the wild outside of the AE lobby lol.
The second you start quoting pylon test using a untested and balanced secondary/primary ( Bio ) you went into outside META.
The second folks use the example of a TW/Bio scrapper running an Apex with an unbalanced secondary you went into outside META.
When folks start pointing at TW/Bio brutes you went into outside META.
The common denominator on the massive dps melee builds is not TW's its Bio Armor.
And I having played a brute with fire as his secondary I cant tell you BURN does way more damage then Whirling blade ever will.
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I have but they are rare.
And usually they are vet level 100+...………..
Ae builds are someone I try not to group with.
Farming does not equal Task Forces/Trials.
Running an ITF with AE farmers is not fun I have gone through that nightmare that in PUG's before.
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7 minutes ago, Megajoule said:
Farmers pick Spines.
People who want to be Superman pick Super Strength.
??? pick Titan Weapons.
(I want to say ???="people who know TW is OP".)
Or maybe they are Anime fans who want to cry out Arc of Destruction at the top of their lungs everytime I click on the button.
I know that's what I want to do.... and have done.
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11 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:
Out of 6,300 people playing Titan Weapons Scrappers, 1/12 make it to 50.
Out of 8,000 people playing Street Justice Scrappers 1 in 26 make it to 50.
Out of 4,000 Scrappers playing Electric Melee, 1 in 10 make it to 50.
Out of 8,000 Martial Artists, 1 in 22 makes it to 50.
Out of 5,500 Spines Scrappers 1 in 12 makes it to 50.
When you break the numbers down by percentage, it looks like people just give up on a lot of powersets much more often than your initial numbers present it. But Titan Weapons, Electric Melee, and Spines are all near 1 in 10 going all the way.
So your saying that Electric Melee and Spines will be the next calls for nerf by forum users?
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7 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:
Hopeling beat me to it, but @Morgrum those stats reflect popularity and not raw effectiveness. That's why you see a million inv/ss tankers and claw/regens, or theme/theme pairings.
I am not hoping to beat you to anything I am just showing raw data as you like to show when folks beat up on innocent pylons. (shrugs)
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7 minutes ago, Hopeling said:
TW rises to #3 in the 32-49 breakdown, and #1 at 50. This seems to line up with the claim that it's mediocre to bad at low levels, then becomes very strong later.
It is not strictly a Bio Armor issue, as I went on to say in the very next sentence, which you quoted. Have you read my breakdown on page 3?
Yes I have and while TW does a bit more damage per say then other sets it was a balancing act for its slowness and built in penalties it was always designed that way.
TW's came out way before Bio armor.
Bio armor if I remember right never went live and was never balanced for release.
You are once again focusing on a secondary set that has never been tweaked for balancing to show how a attack set that was tweaked before it was released is an issue.
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1 minute ago, Hopeling said:
If anything, TW/Bio scrappers are the poster children for TW brokenness, moreso than TW/Bio brutes. It outperforms other sets with every secondary, though. See my first post on page 3; TW powers literally get to break the damage formula in their favor.
Once again that is a Bio Armor issue not a TW issue.
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Ok lets look at some breakdowns here from what folks are playing right now in game.
1 Invulnerability Super Strength 6914 2 Fiery Aura Fiery Melee 2838 3 Radiation Armor Radiation Melee 2305 4 Shield Defense Broad Sword 2257 5 Stone Armor Stone Melee 2068 6 Bio Organic Armor Battle Axe 1702 7 Willpower Super Strength 1601 8 Electric Armor Electrical Melee 1527 9 Shield Defense War Mace 1407 10 Dark Armor Dark Melee 1277 11 Invulnerability Titan Weapons 1190 Well over twice SS toons then TW and after that TW/Fiery/Rad are pretty close to one another.
TW's #11 build.
1 Spines Fiery Aura 12769 2 Super Strength Invulnerability 4827 3 Radiation Melee Radiation Armor 3352 4 Super Strength Willpower 3183 5 Electrical Melee Shield Defense 3074 6 Radiation Melee Fiery Aura 3061 7 Electrical Melee Electric Armor 2824 8 Super Strength Fiery Aura 2813 9 Brawling Willpower 2782 10 Fiery Melee Fiery Aura 2365 11 Broad Sword Shield Defense 2256 12 Titan Weapons Willpower 2245 Closer now but Spines and SS are still played handily more then TW.
TW's #12 build
( Cough Farmers.... Rad melee is making a strong comeback here with the new changes )
1 Claws Regeneration 2511 2 Martial Arts Super Reflexes 2384 3 Street Justice Willpower 2307 4 Broad Sword Shield Defense 2305 5 Electrical Melee Shield Defense 1842 6 Dark Melee Dark Armor 1685 7 Katana Regeneration 1562 8 Katana Ninjitsu 1522 9 Street Justice Super Reflexes 1515 10 Spines Regeneration 1500 11 Electrical Melee Electric Armor 1458 12 Radiation Melee Radiation Armor 1428 13 Martial Arts Regeneration 1426 14 Titan Weapons Bio Organic Armor 1387 Scrappers the true look at what set works and what does not because they are always on full dps.
Looks like the top 5 are very close to each other... and TW isn't in the top 5.
TW's #14 build oh look its that Pylon killing build folks rant about when they want to nerf TW's
Tanker TW's #2 but it is half of what is number 1 and #'s 3,4,5 very close to #2
Brute TW #3 1,2 very close #3 almost 1/3 less played then the first two and like I said Rad melee with the new boost should be sitting around TW in played toons.
Scrapper is all over the place. TW's #7 but its a tight even flow all the way to the top.
Is TW a top tier power once it is maxed. Yes
Is it over powered. No it has its limitations and this is the reason you see SS outplaying it time and again.
Could you Imagine a SS Scrapper omg give me some of that!
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I hate to doubt you but what you are saying on this thread and what you should know by playing the set isn't jiving with what myself and others who play the set are saying.
Momentum isn't based on number of targets around you btw.....
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Or maybe having played one to 50 and playing one actively now Instead of number crunching pylons and looking at spreadsheets I know first hand the difficulties the set has.
Its isn't as plug and play as you are attempting to make it out to be.
Sure on paper it looks great but in game actually playing the game its not what you are making it out to be.
Oh yea HI this is Morgrum the old Beta Axe/Fire tanker.
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Honestly it sounds like your more on a crusade to hit a set that doesn't need to be hit because a select few can use IO's and power set combos to throw its numbers through the roof.
The same thing can be said about those same combos and what they do to other attack sets when applied to them.
Maybe instead of trying to hit a set with so many disadvantages built in you should look at ways to help sets like dual blades which need to be boosted up.
Now that would be time better spent.
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Since I keep hearing Brute and Bio armor thrown around a lot as being the issue with TW.
Why not look at those two factors instead of crying wolf on an attack set that has inherent penalties built into it.
Hell we all know a Brute once they are IO'd out will completely outperform a Tanker in dps, close in on scrapper damage, and have near tanker survivability.
How is that TW's problem?
Sounds more like a class issue that is seen once again when IO sets are put into the mix.
Pre sets Brutes are fine.
Post IO sets well there is a reason you see so many Spines/Fire Brutes.
But don't cry wolf on them because the whining coming out of the AE building would cause Atlas park to explode.
Maybe stop trying to nerf sets because IO's are out of hand?
Also try leveling the set yourself.
No AE, No Power leveling, NO BIO ARMOR ( Because that's where things get skewed)!
Play the set and see what we are talking about.
And try to remember the game is not balanced on IO sets.
One thing more that is against the TW set the knockback mag is massive insanely so even with a KB to KD IO if its blue you will send the target flying and yellow and orange will go flying if some else so much a farts a KD mag 1.
That is not a benefit since I causes you to now try and rundown everything that was once grouped.
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Honestly guys TW is fine.
It hits hard in burst damage with some of the worst Recharge, Endurance, and Animation times and a Combo system tacked to it.
This without a full IO set is so bad that most folks give up on TW and reroll something else.
Yes Momentum can help with that some of the time.
Yes you can build a set to do pure DPS but if I did that I would have to sacrifice the survivability of my WP Primary on my tank.
Its has good mitigation but so does my War Mace's cone and sweeping pbaoe as does SS's Footstomp which can be tweaked to have a fast recharge.
The set is clunky requiring you to do combos with long to momentum medium animation timers holding you in one spot I.E. leaving you vulnerable in TF's/Raids.
I look at my TW-WP combo and my SJ-Bio combo and my SJ-Bio hands down out DPS's in the range that is not even close with close to the same survivability because of the heal/absorb shields.
I look at the numbers your posting there and my TW simply does not do what you are posting because while he does good damage for a Tanker he is is built to tank aka the name Tanker.
TW by itself isn't an issue TW just like other attack sets with certain defensive sets I.E. Bio armor is an issue.
Maybe you should be looking at the common denominator that is allowing all of these different attack sets to have the massive damage instead of looking at the sets themselves.
One thing that hasn't been stated is the delay in the initial attacks that TW has making it a bit more difficult then say a Foot stomp to grab and hold that groups aggro because you will not have Momentum up and ready for every set of mobs as you and your team leapfrog between groups.
And as stated above there are AT combos that blow TW damage out of the water when your doing a static test on a pylon.
Which has no bearing what so ever to the game itself because your basically hitting a punching bag.
Your not looking for the glowy lines of death on the ground, controlling aggro, getting said AV to turn and face you instead of groups.
When your actually playing the game your DPS goes down tremendously because well you are doing a hell of a lot more then spamming attacks at an unmoving pylon by yourself.
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Feedback: Testing Melee Set Performance
in Suggestions & Feedback
Posted · Edited by Morgrum
Jesus Christ this trend is still going?
Ok ya'll know what I am to old to care about what anyone thinks about me so let me tell it to you straight.
You are a bunch of children crying because you think someone else's toy is better.
You could instead of going hey lets help out the rest of the sets and bring them up to a better standard.
But nope you try to common core everything down then you cry that that makes the game to easy if it isnt.
No it does not IO's and Incarnate levels make the game easier.
If you do not want the game to be easy don't use them then increase your level and team size and stop trying to punish the rest of us.
I for one play this game as a fun experience I do not want this game to go back to what it was at release because that was a miserable experience.
The devs do not want us to grind through that type of experience either because we get double experience if we want and we aren't forced to go on miserable raid after miserable raid to unlock our incarnate levels.
I am not built to do the insane things some folks have done since I am a Tanker and I enjoy grouping with my Coalition.
Guess what those few folks who build those extreme builds might just enjoy doing what they are doing.
Instead of going wow that's cool but not for me you point fingers and cry foul foul foul!
You haven't once spoken about the Blasters who Solo master ITF's, or the Masterminds/Controllers who go around ruining GM's and task forces by themselves.
This is exactly the same type of conversations that happened which killed EM.
You folks are exactly the type of folks who kept posting numbers because they were not happy that others were happy.
It is nothing but vindictive jealousy on what a few folks have done so you want to blanket punish everyone who uses a set.
So how about you play the game as you want and leave the rest of us alone.
How about you start new postings such as Dual Blades how can we help the set or Katana needs these improvements
Because if you had your way and the game became an unfun experience again myself and other casual players like myself who are vast amount of players btw will leave.
This is an old game with a nostalgic feeling to it but I for one will drop it immediately if the Dev's go your route and try to make a second job again; and you can bet others would do the same.
Then you can enjoy trying desperately to run the content that you wanted to be harder in leagues you cannot fill.
Infinitum stop posting man just let them continue here on their own and beat their chest until the get TW's nerfed into oblivion.
After which they will start on the next set which they do not like and push for nerfs on them and continue on until they are the only ones left on these servers.
They are miserable people let them be miserable without your comments to give them a chance to beat their chest and act superior to you in replies because they do not like something.