barrier
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Posts posted by barrier
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On 12/25/2020 at 1:14 PM, arcaneholocaust said:
Considering we know the arena community has zero problem imposing arbitrary rules on their own - why not just ban arena temp powers like raptor pack?
Because a lot of the "problems" aren't apparent when 16 idiots are playing each other without any bans. The bans are there because the meta looks horrific when it's any of the high end arena teams playing against each other or when one of those teams fights a community team and doesn't hold back.
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On 12/14/2020 at 3:43 PM, Phoenix' said:
Still waiting to get credit for being the first Fire Blaster in Zone...
I don't even think that's true. I think Lib was running around on a Fire/Plant really early on, probs on the second week of kickball? I rolled one shortly after because I thought it would be a fun toon and played it zone a ton because it was, even before the snipe buff.
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1 hour ago, America's Angel said:
@barrier Ah so you're saying the increased damage from procs on Homecoming wouldn't be as big of a deal if res buffs did more? If that's what you're saying then...yeah it seems like we actually agree on the same solution. (Buff res shields.) And yeah CM as an anti-mez/hold spike counter sounds good to me. Mez spikes not having a counter is one of the dumbest things in PVP IMO.
yup yup
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28 minutes ago, America's Angel said:
I don't understand what you're saying here. Damage wasn't a problem on live back when we had the old %chance-to-proc system. DR & resistance buffs & APP/PPP armours all still interact the same way they did pre-shut down. The only thing that's changed on Homecoming is the move to PPM, and Fire/Plant blasters fire/x corruptors and x/ice defenders slotting 3-5 procs in each attack. That's the cause of the Homecoming-exclusive "damage is too high" concern.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want procs nerfing. It would negatively impact 1v1s too much. But they are the cause of the problem. Your idea of buffing +res shields is a good one. It'll help counter procs in 8v8, but not impact 1v1.
Help me out - why does your/M3z's team hate raptor packs whilst Rare & Renegades are happy to play with them? Why are some teams cool with it, but some not?
1. Again, they are not the problem. DR resists bending down resists to 40-50 percent for squishies and cast resistance shields adding 3% to your resists at best is the problem. A proc nerf would be moronic if the reason for the nerf is 8v8 damage. Mitigation is the issue. I said it before: I used to be able to two-shot 1606s on my blaster pre-i13. The way that was balanced back then was the fact that the blue ladder ran sonics and the red ladder ran sonics and therms which then mitigated how huge damage was before DR was a thing.
Adjusting resists would be the way to go. And maybe also looking at DR on mez resists so that two cast CM’s put you into server tick territory for duration, effectively eliminating the power of mez’s for teams that can run a tight backline (while punishing those that can’t).
2. I am in Renegades. We use raptor packs. We have played the slow game in the past. It is fucking boring. That’s why I hate it. That simple. Raptor packs and regroups slow the game down. Speed is why I like this game and why it quickly replaced Guild Wars 2, Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter for me when Homecoming came out. Right now, I’d rather spend my time playing Overwatch than having to deal with the drudge that is a playtowin match among competitive teams.
In Rens we had a couple of chats about forbearance. We didn’t run stupid stuff like Stone Blasters and we probably ran two Masterminds three times at most even though we have one decent MM from the ladder (Spec) and a very vocal one from those times as well (me). Give it a couple of months and you’ll see how this meta ends up encouraging a much slower and boring game as the community teams get themselves together and some of them start playing to win.
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On 11/18/2020 at 6:06 AM, America's Angel said:
This was also my initial thinking in the 8v8s I'd played these last few weeks. But then I realised that I was probably just surviving more because most people actually aren't actually that good at locking quickly/spiking in unison, and the snipe range nerf revealed this skill deficit. (A deficit that, until now, blazing bolt's insane range was hiding.)
That said, I preferred the 8v8 meta on live. Where ranged damage was lower, so locking quickly/spiking in unison mattered more, and evading was harder. (You had to actually know how to evade by reading the match better, and knowing how to use distance/break LOS.)
The problem, ofc, is that damage is too high right now due to procs to be able to reliably use LOS breaks/distance to evade. So Jaunt is required.
So...how to balance this? It seems like a no-win situation.
Ideas:- Lower blaster HP to 1606. See if that fixes it. If not, then try...
- Increasing Jaunt's Cooldown to 20-30s. See if that fixes it. If not, then try...
- Decreasing proc damage.
I'm hesitant about decreasing proc damage because this will negatively impact 1v1s. So I'd suggest trying the first two ideas, first.
Also, I don't think Raptor Packs are a problem. Not when you can just take -fly powers. For example, Madvillain's been running a fire/dev in kickballs these last few weeks and it has been good at countering raptors.Damage isn't too high because of procs. It's too high because we have few mitigation strategies/mechanics to deal with it. People need to stop saying that the problem is procs because some naive developer here is going to believe it some day and this game will be much worse off because of it.
The problem with damage is the way Diminishing Returns interacts with cast resistance buffs and APP/PPP armors. Those things could be reworked to make it all a lot more like it was before i13. If you think damage is too high now, imagine a blaster two-shotting you with TF and Blaze or three shotting you with Blaze, Bone Smasher and Flares. That's what live was like. It's just that people don't remember that. The only reason people didn't blow up in 8v8's back then was that we had resistance buffs that mattered and we even carried oranges to pop when you saw icons on your bar because that made sense back then.
Regarding your points:
1. Increases mortality but likely decreases the speed of the game as people spend 15 seconds in the sky every time 2 offense die. Those 15s sound like nothing, but that's enough time in a match to make me want to alt tab and tetris.
2. Meh. Jaunt is fine until resistances get fixed.
3. Nope.
I consider Raptor Packs to be an issue. They slow the game down. They make me want to spend more time in other faster games. A team that Raptors after every two deaths is about as fun to fight as a team that runs a bunch of stone blasters (fossilize tanks and brutes) and masterminds. IE, Not Fun.
And fire/dev is fine when you're playing casually and not Rens or Rare's core teams (which I believe are the only non-community teams that can field full 8's right now, which should give you an idea of how this meta has encouraged a huge amount of stratification and attrition). Against Rens or Rare, giving up an absorb shield (especially after the changes), Strangler and Toxins is just going to get you punished, more often than not.
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On 11/8/2020 at 10:28 PM, wombicus said:
True... Maybe -x% HP would be more of an even penalty...
and increase fall damage?
Just add -fly to it and adjust the timer so that preemptive jaunting is discouraged. Jaunt, coupled with the absorb changes, has made it so that it makes little sense to target a blaster in the upcoming meta. This is what the range bonus nerf accomplished: a bunch of blasters that can port out of blazing bolt range really easily...
While I haven't been playing much lately (much like @M3z, I find this City of Raptor Packs meta to be stupid boring and would rather play faster games elsewhere), I survived more proper spikes last week than I've ever had before, and it was all about realizing that my "fuck it i'm dead" threshold for blazes and stranglers in my tray is incredibly higher now that as a blaster you have nearly 2.1k hp and you're not going to get hit with a blazing bolt if you jaunt up with your 80% range bonus on jaunt and they're not carrying a range bonus from the blazing bolt.
I actually think the bolt range nerf and the absorb changes were pretty bad moves, after having play tested a bit.
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2 hours ago, reib said:
if someone tries to escape up high, yes, but if only try to jump/run/jaunt towards the base it is fun to kill him with jaunt + 160 range.
If they run to base... that's part of the game. With e liedown, if you can't get that kill you don't deserve it.
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16 minutes ago, reib said:
I meant that i believe that jaunt Is not unbalanced per se But that It become unbalanced When combined With Jump packs. I love jaunt to Press and Chase people more than to evade.
I disagree. Jump packs are what make jaunt chasing possible.
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5 minutes ago, reib said:
Jaunt Is fine, problem Is Just jaunt+Jump packs.
That is literally how you chase...
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14 hours ago, Gibson99 said:
Disable Jaunt for PvP. Problem solved. It's a totally absurd to get two travel powers for one, especially when jaunt is used in PvP zones to get players out of sticky situations from which there is no escape. It feels like jaunt was made with this in mind.
eh, in zone i chase with jaunt more than i evade with jaunt so, maybe you need to adjust your playstyle.
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Just now, Troo said:
Maybe I should have said "There could be some give and take."
I get that some folks can't help but trigger when anyone mentions something contrary.
Do you have a problem with Siren's Call? So for @barrier you don't need these change there then or in Warburg, or in.., or in..
If these changes were happening to only one zone, there would be hardly any push back.
Sweeping wholesale changes on the other hand are gonna receive some additional scrutiny. The additional questions and concerns should be heard and addressed, not dismissed.
Nice deflection. Did you actually get your accolades at level 35 for Siren's
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12 minutes ago, Troo said:
Oh I get it. I might not want to use such a item but I also understand that some might and that there has been requests for similar in the past. It doesn't seem like a crazy request.
There needs to be some give and take.
Right now it does look like the arena crowd are pushing changes and a bit of 'the heck with everyone else'.
I do not appreciate the accolade changes. I didn't get many of my accolades for level 50. I got them for level 32.
1. There does not need to be a give and take. Take your PVE grinder mentality elsewhere.
2. The arena crowd is pushing changes because the zones are empty and the arena is not.
3. Please don't tell me you got your accolades at level 35 for Siren's because I am just going to be extra mean to you if you did.
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6 minutes ago, Gibson99 said:
You can rationalize this all day long. The bottom line is Kickballers brought their Preferred Way To PvP to the Zones.
Is it right or wrong? 3, 2, 1 Fire!
Time will tell.
On a side note (haha), can you kickballers petition the devs to make slows work again? You got your Arena Rules so maybe you get slows too!
I'm a big fan of slows. I know M3z is too. So are the PvPers on my global and on zone chat.
Argue against the "rationalization" then. Your "bottom line" is not an argument on game mechanics, which is what I responded to you with. The source of a proposed change in game mechanics is not an argument against a proposal.
Pretty sure everyone wants slows to work again, but the PVEers really got their way with the power boost nerf. My grav/poison and every one of my poison and cold mm's could do actual slows before the PB nerf. Not so much now.
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Just now, Gibson99 said:
I remember vividly this idea of “lowering the barrier” to help out noobs ruining PvP before. Don’t you?
So when I hear this same phrase being used saying, “we’re going to make PvP a fair experience for the new players”, I’m skeptical and nervous.
Actually, I don’t believe it at all. It’s simply Kickballers helping themselves by forcing their arena rules upon zone players.
The difference about this time is that this is coming from people who know how insane incarnates can be when used properly. Your newly minted beam/ta blaster with alpha only has close to zero chances against a fully t4 incarn'd fire/plant in the hands of someone who halfway knows what they are doing. It is not that it's a somewhat interesting match up, it's that it's a totally deterministic match up regardless of skill even before the encounter begins and that's not good for the game. Incarnates, other than alpha, reduce the number of possible outcomes, independent of the skill of the parties involved. Meanwhile, i13 just made skill less relevant. That was just different.
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3 minutes ago, M3z said:
melee in organized team is different than zone/small teams. Even then melee in organizes boils down to taunting, if taunting is banned (it is) melee is useless.
Melee in zones/small teams are invulnerable(if running pvp viable build) but aren't really able to get kills.
Overall the verdict on melee outside of fightclub non movement based 1v1s is they are absolute trash. This is from someone who has tried to pvp with both stalkers/scrappers pretty extensively in various formats (zones/8v8s etc).
The solution is a change to the mez system, but that is a very complicated subject that I don't feel like going into in this post lol.
I think you need to see what an SS/X/Fossilize Brute can do if played like a blaster in zone. There is very little reason to play a blaster in zone if you have a proper tank/brute build that properly procs KO Blow, Stone Cage and Fossilize. I hate to say this but Madvillain was right on this stuff.
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49 minutes ago, grimreaper12k said:
It's also going to further widen the gap between ranged and melee toons. While the ranged player(s) can easily make up for the lost damage with more attacks, melee will have to close the distance however many more times for the same damage and no longer have judgment for clean-ups. Add to that, the loss of destiny (barrier in particular) is much more significant for melee toons' survivability. That said, a melee that doesn't want to die still has a much better chance of escaping a fight and some have potent T9s to lean on, so at least there's that.
I strongly disagree with this point. I never once died on my SS/Rad Brute in 8v8. Not a single time ever. That's because the only real threats to a properly spec'd taunt bot are t4 incarnates.
I recently respec'd that toon into a fossilize build and I can definitely tell you that even before getting barrier, it is probably the most survivable spike toon that I have and it can consistently do an epic ton of damage. I am not seriously worried at all about having incarnates removed. It will probably fare better than now.
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3 hours ago, reib said:
A pvp player can spend even 80/90% of his entire online experience only in a pvp zone. for a pve player the pvp zone takes up less than 1% of his life online. because therefore we are still talking about pve? I think pve players this time should just stay out of the question, wait and adapt to what's coming.
This is proper.
I assume you mean PVE zone on the first line.
There are 4 zones in the game tailored to PVP. All the others (Probably hundreds if we count instanced maps) are yours. You can have the rest. Those badges and AV's weren't designed for PVEers. They were meant to encourage PVP. People pretending to be ignorant of said fact need to just stop.
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20 minutes ago, Parisstar said:
If you have accolades already will you still be able to use them in zone and you just wouldn't be able to buy the ones from vender? Seems a bit weird I spent ages accolading 200 toons to not be able to use the ones I earned(would be a bummer to me.) Everything else looks great though! ❤️
I probably have close to 75 or so fully accoladed and mostly IO'd pvp builds over multiple accounts.
I am 100 percent fine with this change.
My work was in the service of PVPing, not some sort of completionist endeavor.
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19 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:
First question, aren't there PvE missions, task forces, and flash back arcs that allow you to do just that? As an aside, I recently got all the RV AV badges and it was a ton of fun: RV AV badge topic.
Second question, how do these proposed changes prevent or inhibit your ability to continue to do so? Have you tested and found a noticeable impact or outright inability to do so?
Please assume I'm asking these with the best of intentions and I'm not provoking any hostility. I love playing this game and I want everyone's feedback to be heard.
I want to note that these changes will make it a lot less likely that people like me will show up to your badge hunt in RV and three-shot your PVE build with a corruptor. Incarnates are that stupid.
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5 minutes ago, Monos King said:
Disagree with this one. Every PvP zone literally gives temporary powers, it's part of the appeal and none of them actually ruin the experience; only incarnates did that. I'm supposed to go and get Warburg nukes and then not even be able to use them in zone? That's pretty absurd. I am also not asking for only the PvP earned temporary powers to be re-enabled, I am asking that all of them be. Amplifiers are already rightfully disabled, it's already known to be essentially a disqualifier if used in a duel; if I want a fight with no temps, I just do an arena fight. No need to take away that fun from zone at all.
Other than that these are fantastic changes.
Okay, I want to hear, for the record, when was the last time you used a Warburg nuke in Warburg?
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1 minute ago, ROBOKiTTY said:
This is gonna be unfortunate for people who just want to hunt the NPC AVs and heroes. Maybe it's time for a PvE version of the zone.
I mean, you guys did those hunts without incarnates. Those NPCs were never buffed after incarnates were released. It's not like Incarnates are being turned off in BAFs and Lambdas.
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I don't think there are enough people to properly split the zone into two without destroying RV.
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13 minutes ago, M3z said:
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Veteran Combatant
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Indestructible
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Prescience
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Oppression
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Cheat Pistol
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Call to War
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Special Technique
Fixt that for you. 😉
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This is the best thing to happen to PVP since it was introduced.
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Jaunt / Combat Teleport
in The Arena (PvP)
Posted
Don't think you've played enough PVP games if you think that's the case.