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  1. Full disclosure, I just didn't make a good proc build above ^. Some of you awesome people shared your own proc'd out builds with me., which were nothing like mine. Many of these sacrifice a lot in the name of damage, and I'm not quite that adventurous, but I learned a ton in going through them. So I proc'd out what I could, muling less valuable attacks for purps and other set bonuses, and was able to come up with a more proc-centric build that still has "almost" soft-cap (turns out 44.5% defense in Mids equals 43% in game which sucks), decent resistances and solid dmg, rech and accuracy. So then I tested it out in live (not beta), and got over 300 ST dps on a pylon, and over 700 MT dps in AE farm. Massive gains in damage, with acceptable losses in def, res, rech, dmg & acc. The loss in rech hurts the most, losing perma-haste, triple stacking Active Defense, & gapless attack chain. But that gap is ok, at least I have time to pop off AD, Hasten & Agility. My favorite part is putting Stalkers Guile with Hide proc in Shield Charge, so I can go LR > BL w/ crit from hide > SC > TS w/ chance to crit from hide. I didn't like it in AS where I'd prefer dmg, plus it's usually followed up by a weak attack with minimal crity goodness.
  2. Hell yeah, that just made this proc a lot more useful. In fact, maybe even adding value to the Decimation proc in Zapp which I hit every time it's up. It has 1 PPM (16.7%). With no rech IOs, it will average out (80%/12) to about 6.67% dmg, better than the global 3% I'd get from 4th SotM set piece. Of course, global applies to all attacks, even AoE where I won't be using Zapp as much. But here's the thing - if u/macskull's formula is correct, with NO rech in Zapp, it actually has a 42% chance to proc due to long recharge. That is awesome, but somehow doesn't seem believable or everyone would take it...maybe it's for a non-homecoming build of CoH? > Here's the info I'm using: https://www.reddit.com/r/Cityofheroes/comments/c5ub58/all_about_ppm_procs_per_minute/ specifically "EDIT: u/macskull has information collected into a spreadsheet here." edit: here's the table used to calculate. Activation time is cast time - interrupt? longer actually improves chance to proc btw. SINGLE-TARGET PPM amount 1 Activation time 1.33 seconds Base recharge 24 seconds Recharge slotting 0.00% in Pines/Mids Chance to proc 42.22% Either way I'll roll with it on my new build, which I think is the most balanced build I could muster, with solid def, res, dmg, acc, rech & procs. And not too expensive.
  3. Thank you Omega, once again you've helped a ton. What do you all think about Decimation: Chance of Build Up in Zapp? A 16.7% chance for a 5s BU for an attack every 8.5-9s isn't huge, but 2-4 attacks doing 80% more base dmg is sweet, esp if AS is one of those. The Assassin's Mark proc is huge, seems like BU is always up, plus the Gaussian's proc in BU - but a passive BU from Decimation would be a nice addition to the active BU. In my head. And we've seen how flawed that is.
  4. Ok, and hide forces a crit, which doubles enhanced base dmg, not counting procs from incarnate or enhancements? If so, yeah, it would be more valuable than a standard proc of 71.75 dmg at 53% chance.
  5. Ok, one more sniper question -- if I use the Stalker's Guile Chance to Hide, will that cause Zapp to do the slow long animation, like how Assassin's Shock would? If so, is it even worth it if AS & Zapp are half my ST attacks? And would that insta-cast proc affect the hidden mechanics? If so, I could see an argument for putting Chance to Hide in AS, but more and more I'm suspecting a dmg proc in both AS & Zapp would do more than Hide and inst-cast.
  6. Meh, my best advice is to ignore my advice. dps can vary wildly from fight to fight - I'll get 415 one farm clear, then 385 the next? But with 3 runs you start to get an average and a rough idea, but it would take 10s of runs per build variation to really get any objective numbers. That said, I was playing around with a few more options, and went all purples for shits and giggles, and got my personal best MT dps of 433, next run 418. So I took the same build and went at a pylon, hitting ST 238, just shy of my best pylon runs 245 w procs. I don't know enough about how dmg is calculated from procs and crits, but the raw data in my combat logs shows that my best ST run was proc'd, but that cost my MT chains more than I gained. My best MT run was purp'd maxing recharge and a crap ton of dmg boost. I suspect that recharge helps the dps of this AT since I'm trying to leverage two separate 4 power attack chains for ST & MT. Proc dps doesn't seem to improve with dmg or rech boosts from sets, and I dont have enough global recharge to run 2 separate attack chains without gaps. For this particular build I'm going back to some purples and set bonuses to maximize resistance. Either way I'm just not seeing the numbers to support losing set bonuses in lieu of heavily proc'd build. I'll leave my telenukes partially proc'd since they have a lower damage cap, but I think this balance gives me max survivability, MT dmg, solid ST dmg, and plenty of endurance.
  7. Alright everyone, thanks to your collective advice, and a week of grinding on beta tracking ST & MT dps, I'm getting close to my final build. Here are my conclusions, and questions: I went Charged Brawl over Havoc Punch. Base ST dps is 167 w/CB vs 145 w/HP, timing of CB > CI > CB > AS works perfectly, stacks 3 AF for crit, hit Zp & Jdgmt when up. Replaced Spring Attack w Ball Lightning, my MT dps (on S&L farm) went from 268 to 287. Swapped Agility w Musculature and it went to 350. Switched from Assault Radial to Core, it went to 374 (stacking +15% dmg likes AoE, even if telenukes do better with radial). Proc'd attacks, and my dps went to 413. A sustained 413, up from 268. Holy hell you people are awesome. Procs are awesome on this build, the numbers are there. But I noticed I was dying a lot more, esp on ITF when defense debuffs got me (Agility +def offset this previously). In looking at Frosticus's Sav/Shield Stalker I see that ignoring Resistances was my mistake. So I'm currently running this build on beta w greatly improved survivability, losing some global rech, end, dmg, acc and def. This toon is much more survivable, and has OwtS for tough fights & def dbuff. The resists are noticeable. Global dmg went down but my dps wasn't too impacted, maybe because procs don't scale? I can accept losing some +dmg set bonuses, but I wish I could keep Assault. Is Assault more valuable than OwtS? Acc went down, but @ base 39% in mids for +4 mobs still near 95%, not even counting BU. I think accuracy is fine, and I don't need Tactics. Def is no longer soft-capped, which sucks, but I'm not too far off (around 43% situationals). Can we call this close enough? Rech went down, but I can still sustain continuous ST & MT attack chains, very close to perma-hasten. It's as close as I could get. End starts to drop during last 30s of Ageless, esp MT fights, but I haven't detoggled (yet). OwtS give +recovery, not bad on ST fights (AV fight, etc). It's not good but manageable... How could I improve this build? My main goal is AoE damage, that's why I rolled Elec/Shld Stalker, but I need to still provide serious ST dmg for the AV fights, and stay alive 😃
  8. lmao, don't do this to me!?! But seriously, this would be an awesome replacement to HP or CB. Too bad you're forced to take one =/ I don't have a SJ, and never played it, so I can't verify dmg in-game, and don't know how the combo system works. But I can plug in the attacks based on Bopper's data, calculating base dmg, and you'll have to infer the crit/combo/proc stuff. Give me a bit and I'll try to get it on this evening.
  9. Long story short, my brother wrote a python script to calculate various attack chains, seeing which is the best attack available (including waiting if that improves DPS). This doesn't calculate procs or crits, so we have to manually infer that data. I plugged in all 11 attacks from Elec/Shield/Mu/Jumping, based on values from in-game on Beta, including base numbers and pylon attacks. We then set it for a 3 min fight. On ST chains, script likes Zapp, Chain Induction, Charged Brawl, Assassin Shock, with AoEs to fill in the gaps. Assassin Shock & Zapp are beasts, and this isn't even including crits and procs. [Name, # times used, total damage, dps] Chain Induction, 29, 6793.25, 37.66/sec Zapp, 20, 6266.20, 34.74/sec Assassin Shock, 26, 3867.76, 21.44/sec Charged Brawl, 48, 2399.04, 13.30/sec Lightning Rod, 6, 1066.02, 5.91/sec Pyronic Core, 2, 983.14, 5.45/sec Jacobs Ladder, 11, 981.75, 5.44/sec Shield Charge, 6, 850.86, 4.72/sec Ball Lightning, 11, 667.59, 3.70/sec Spring Attack, 4, 333.68, 1.85/sec Havoc Punch, 2, 157.08, 0.87/sec Thunder Strike, 0, 0.00, 0.00/sec On MT chains, using guesses on # mob hit, again script likes Chain Induction, but also Jacobs Ladder & Thunder Strike. Spring Attack scores way down the list. [Name(#mobs hit), # times used, total damage, dps] Chain Induction(4), 29, 33966.25, 185.65/sec Jacobs Ladder(3), 22, 9817.50, 53.66/sec Thunder Strike(5), 13, 7580.95, 41.44/sec Lightning Rod(10), 6, 5330.10, 29.13/sec Zapp(1), 17, 5326.27, 29.11/sec Pyronic Core(10), 2, 4915.70, 26.87/sec Shield Charge(10), 6, 4254.30, 23.25/sec Ball Lightning(10), 13, 3944.85, 21.56/sec Spring Attack(5), 5, 2085.50, 11.40/sec Assassin Shock(1), 7, 1041.32, 5.69/sec Charged Brawl(1), 3, 149.94, 0.82/sec Havoc Punch(1), 0, 0.00, 0.00/sec Some suggestions from this rough data: (1) Chain Induction scores high on both ST & MT, and is the real hero in this set? (2) Zapp is a beast. Not even counting procs or crits. (3) Jacobs Ladder scores really high. Even set at 3 targets, it's dps outperforms Thunder Strike set to 5 targets, but TS gets a bigger burst out of hide... (4) Havoc Punch has lower dps vs Charged Brawl, but performs better in actual attack chains. (5) Although Zapp & Ball Lightning add no Assassin Focus, both score well and can crit from hide. I think this really is a winning Pool. (6) Thunder Strike scores pretty well, even if it often hits less than 5 targets. I will try it 2nd in attack chain so more mobs are alive when it goes off out of hide for it's big burst dmg. (7) Spring Attack straight up sucks (for this particular build). So Omega-202 was definitely right, Thunder Strike & Ball Lightning are each better than Spring Attack, and Zapp is badass. Havoc Punch vs Charged Brawl is a bit of a wash, there's a slight gap with HP, but overall higher DPS. Havoc Punch, Assassin Shock, Chain Induction, Thunder Strike, Lightning Rod, Shield Charge, Zapp & Ball Lightning. For ST chains, BU > Zapp > CI > HP > AS > BL For MT chains, BU > LR > TS > SC > BL > CI
  10. K, I am standing 7ft away from the middle Rikti Test Dummy. Thunder Strike hits the middle 3 targets, Spring Attack doesn't hit any targets, and all other AoEs hit all 5. Man, you haven't been wrong today. I'm running calculations on the raw damage right now, maybe SA will still have some redeeming qualities?
  11. None at all, I'm here for help, and really appreciate the advice and excellent explanations. My thinking was that at least while Hide is active I get a pretty massive boost to defense which really does help, more often than not I get a crit on Thunder Strike, but dear lord it seems so obvious now, why the hell have I been waiting til the end. Hahaha, I am a slow learner. Thank you. So really what you're asking is which of the AoEs available to me will have the highest dmg output in a chain...LR, SC, SA, BL & TS ignoring some other pools. I really can't get any data on SA, but in game has it quite low. I am 99% certain you are right, but I'm going to go back to Beta and look at the damage logs, then scrub the data and will post my findings.
  12. Ok, that's actually brilliant. ty for this. I really, really want to, but I need the huge defense bonus from Winter's Bite to stay soft-capped. Let me see where else I can find that defense so I can proc Zapp. Spring Attack doesn't break Hide, so it stacks super well with the other 2 telenukes, then giving me 50% crit chance on my 4th AoE, which is looking like Ball Lightning now.
  13. Went back to beta with your collective advice, and yeah, Mu and Musculature are pretty awesome. I was using a 4x8 S&L Farm to test my AoE, and a Pylon to test my ST. Musculature made a significant improvement in both, with no sustained endurance issues. Sets and Ageless alone are plenty. It does start to dip down near the end of Ageless, but I never ran out. I really do like Ball Lightning. It hits more mobs and casts fast, awesome to follow 3x telenukes w/plenty of crits. But really where it shines is that Ball Lightning's cast time is so fast I can use it in the ST chain: along with Chain Induction to hit multiple bosses after my alpha; or when waiting on AS, CI, HP & Zapp to fill in the gap. The negatives are less damage, the knockdown/disorient was decent damage mitigation, and Zapp & BL don't gain Assassins Focus. I think it's worth these trade-offs. So now I need to read through the guides on AH and making money...and learn how the hell procs work. Until then, here is what I'm working towards:
  14. Man, just when I thought I was done with my build I made the mistake of asking on the forums... So I really dig what Croax said, and it has me wondering about Mu. I could swap Laserbeam Eyes for Zapp, but would it be worth it to swap Thunder Strike with Ball Lightning?? Does Ball Lightning crit from hide? It seems like a terrible drop in damage, but my god Thunder Strike sucks. I get it, we need another AoE, and it's dmg is awesome, but 7ft radius and 3.3s cast time really harm it's effectiveness. In today's high speed game, a lot has changed in 3.3 seconds. It takes a lot of finagling to get lined up to make it really shine, even on something like ITF where the mobs clump so well.
  15. Ok, that's really true. Total damage output is certainly damage x recharge, but right now I'm all recharge buffs with little damage buff. So Musculature would increase damage buff more than it would decrease recharge. Looks like I have to grind out another T4 lol. Hello Heather Townshend.
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