ValiantBlu

I just think most people slotting KB>KD into tornado to make it usable is a problem. if a power needs a certain enhancement to be viable, it’s not a good power i would be satisfied if the only change I proposed that made it into HC is reduce the movement speed and give it a wide radius to compensate. Forget LPS, forget dropping thunderclap, forget buffing O2 boost, and forget buffing snowstorm. The only truly needed rework is tornado. i just think the idea of LPS is a major QoL improvement that would make the KB easier to control and provide additional uses to the set’s most delicate powers

To be clear I love the energy you brought in with you but I really want to be abundantly clear on these two things I want the KB to more controllable and I think that’s an important distinction from impactful. And it should play nice with others because it’s a support set. It doesn’t need to work in every single team, but I don’t believe this proposed changes do that. I, do however believe it broadens the sets horizons to playing well with others. lastly, the proposed changes don’t impact anyone’s current playstyle by much. The most drastic changes are losing thunderclap but snowstorm would effectively fill the same role; and tornado, which if you just skip the LPS ability or toggle it off, has largely the same function (especially when slotting SA, enemies will still fall, it just won’t move far but enemies won’t have to be right on top of it).

Not to bring this back up but I really wanted to address this in more detail and my comment was already long enough. Let’s discuss some meteorology. “Hurricanes aren’t known to at tract” But actually, they do. First as I mentioned before, it would make more sense for enemies to orbit you with hurricane active. Hurricanes don’t push outwards from the center, the air rotates around the center (always counter clockwise in the northern hemisphere). If you’ve ever seen a video of debris flying in a hurricane, it certainly looks like it’s being pushed (because it is); but it’s being pushed by the air which is moving counter clockwise around the center. More to my point, though, hurricanes are low pressure weather systems (hence LPS). Air always moves from high pressure to low pressure, and the point of lowest pressure in a hurricane is at the eye of the hurricane (where it’s finally reaching equilibrium). So not only do hurricanes spin… they pull. In fact the reason they spin is because of how quickly they pull, creating a vortex. All wind actually does this, wind never moves in a straight line, it’s always circling around a pressure system; counter clockwise and inward for low pressure systems and clockwise/outward for high pressure systems. Wind is just air trying to reach equal pressure, so it pushes out from high pressure and pulls in from low pressure. The only reason wind appears to be moving in a straight line is often those pressure systems are so large that you can’t observe any curve in its path. TL;DR Hurricane having a repel property makes the least sense, thematically. Going with what they’re known for they would primarily orbit, but eventually get sucked in.

Honestly, let’s simplify this what if Low Pressure System were just inherent to the wind powers, it unlocks if you pick any one of them (gale, hurricane, or tornado). No need to alter snowstorm or remove thunderclap, pick any one of those three powers and you get a toggle that changes the direction of the knock. No need to move any powers around.

Right but like Okay 1) You said thunderstorm is not bad on kb 2) You slot SA on tornado (I’m assuming you think it needs it) 3) you don’t take gale 4) you said hurricane is situational I made no comments on thunderstorm specifically, and 100% agree with that I asked for reworks that would make SA unnecessary on tornado, gale more useful/less skippable, and hurricane less situational unless your argument is that tornado needing SA, gale isn’t worth picking, and hurricane being niche are all good things, im not seeing how or why you’re disagreeing

Just because you can’t control how tornado repositions enemies doesn’t mean it doesn’t reposition enemies lol and you can 100% control thunderstorm. Just because you can’t give it commands does not mean you have 0 control. Placement is everything. Like for example if I’m shoving a mob into a corner with hurricane and I place a storm cloud over my head; it’s going to supplement my repel with periodic knocks. Even tornado has limited control in the beginning it tosses enemies up but also in the direction it’s moving so you place it in line with where you want enemies to end up. The only real downside to tornado is how quickly it moves away from its starting position to wherever it wants to go and the long duration; hence the suggestion to slow it down to make it more manageable. But if you’ve already used your other abilities to lock enemies down into a corner, tornado always follows enemies, it’ll follow them in the corner but they won’t have anywhere to go. In other words as Pet commands are not the only way to control a pet, that’s a skill issue. And what does the rest of the set do? Freezing rain slows, knocks down, and lowers def and res. Snowstorm slows. Thunderclap stuns minions, making them move slowly and unable to attack. Wow 4 out of 9 powers reposition enemies, 3 out of 9 slow enemies and help maintain position, and the last two are a ST heal (with a niche cleanse and an abysmal heal) and a group def/res buff. Only 2 powers have nothing to do with placing or keeping enemies where you want them. 4/9 move enemies, 3/9 make enemies unable to move well on their own, 2/9 are miscellaneous. the beauty is all these powers can work together to contain enemies into a tight knit group and 4 of them debuff, which also means they’re helping each other maximize the debuff, making them that much easier to nuke. but, hey, you already know everything about storm summoning so I don’t need to explain to you how powers that don’t exist in a vacuum interact together do I?

The thunderclap animation is hands down my favorite in the game. Every power that has that animation I immediately want it lol i just find the ability is only useful when solo or on teams that just aren’t prepared for end game content. Super useful to temporarily delete half the damage in a mob but most teams that have one or two solid toons just delete them permanently on sight. In other words I’m taking this power because it looks cool and I’m preparing for my team to struggle, but that ability point would be better spent preventing them from struggling. I didn’t pick a damage/support hybrid class to not support my team lol yet here we are. I’ve never really had an issue with Gale’s accuracy but I also can’t remember the last time I used it unslotted. And since there’s no damage I really have no choice but to slot acc lol

That’s interesting you say -ToHit I mentioned this in my conversation with my friend and he thought it would be OP. I’m inclined to agree on that one but it would be entirely dependent on how much it reduces ToHit. would definitely be easy to overtune by mistake. Love the idea though

Okay so 1) The current iteration of tornado, with no enhancements slotted, will pinball around the room at Mach 1 and launch enemies to the stratosphere so it already has the problem you’re discussing. That’s part of the reason I suggested lowering the magnitude, with a pull effect and an increased radius/decreased movement speed it will gather enemies rather than disperse effectively assisting the tank in herding them up. The push effect can be used the same way but inversely, for example place the tornado behind a mob and approach front the front with hurricane. Enemies will be pinned between both effects. You could use it to separate mobs, say you accidentally pull agro from a separate mob, placing a largely immobile knockback point can keep them at bay while your team cleans up. Runners? Block the door with the tornado. I definitely understand your reservations about giving pets KB but as is, it’s going to do 3 laps around the room and push enemies out of all AoE damage sources and ruin your teams synergy, it’s only useful with SA slotted and even then it turns it into a meh ability. These proposed changes make it more manageable without SA slotted and gives it function without needing to slot a very specific enhancement (which is a clear sign of a bad ability anyways). 2) They already scatter, adding a status effect that makes them scatter doesn’t make it worse. Scattering becomes more manageable as well when combined with other proposed changes 3) I also believe Thunder Clap is useful so I can’t argue here. My argument was based more on my perceived popularity of it. It’s not *that* great though if I look at it objectively. Fully slotted it should be virtually 100% uptime on stun but only for minions and those usually die before stun has a chance to be very effective. In teams with low damage output I’m always glad to have it, but in general I don’t need to use it. This is why I recommended adding a CC component to snow storm to still have that ability to prevent enemies from attacking (unless you attack them in this case) because I know what a valuable tool it is. Losing that warrants compensation. 4) hurricanes also aren’t known for pushing, they spin. If the ability were scientifically accurate enemies would orbit you. Also the ability spins clockwise but low pressure systems (like hurricanes) spin counter clockwise (in the northern hemisphere). There’s nothing scientific about this power, it’s just fun. As far as pulling them into a squishy character, the -ToHit combined with where your defense should be should keep you mostly safe. I’ve personally found it difficult to get my storm’s def to an acceptable level but hurricane’s -ToHit is a major compensation for that; but you wouldn’t be meant to use it solo. Solo you can still push enemies back, toggle LPS off if you don’t want them near you. I would still be shoving enemies into corners solo with this rework, it would just allow us to affect more enemies with that -ToHit, right now your best bet is to circle your tanks mosh pit which limits the number of affected enemies. 5) it’s just a niche heal I think it should do more and I prefer buffing secondary components over primary to give abilities identity over others. Giving it more things to cleanse is the natural choice here. Thematically I could do some light mental gymnastics to justify it but I agree immobilize is a weird addition. I just feel that stun and sleep cleansing is too niche, confuse, fear, and taunt cleanse are helpful but still niche, so immobilize was tossed in to make it somewhat useful against just about every faction. Hold cleansing would just be OP. Maybe cleansing slows over immob? I don’t know. Needs something. im also open to the idea of making a magnetic set based on these principles. I think it would be neat. and to be clear I don’t think storm is weak I think it’s niche and has a high(er than average) skill floor. Goal wasn’t to buff it much outright, but to make it more versatile.

Okay so the only thing I’m proposing it loses is thunderclap the rest are objectively buffs is thunderclap that important?

I disagree with snow storm. Obnoxious endurance drain, meh slow (which slow is already a meh effect). Its best purpose is -fly and thats niche. But even entertaining your point. Can’t balance a set around pre-16 gameplay. Blink and it’s over.

Hi there Before I get into the meat, just a little background If you don't care about all this, skip to the numbered list On live my first character was a Gravity/Storm Troller... everyone hated me And for good reason, I was a 10 year old, this was my first MMO And I loved ragdolls I don't think I need to say much else ❤️ I've tried storm on other toons as well but at that time I just wanted to do damage and quickly learned that Controllers and Defenders were not the AT for me I went on to play other games and since then I've primarily settled into support and tank roles in most games I play. There's still that little piece of me that wants damage, but I no longer feel like I have a purpose on a team unless I'm bringing some utility, so when I returned to CoH shortly before the servers shut down, ATs like Corrupter and Brute were exactly perfect for me. Anyways coming back to HC, playing on and off, there's always two toons I come back to My energy/energy Brute (which I will one day reroll as an Energy/Invul Brute) My storm/storm Corrupter I love my Corr And this time, I decided I would play responsibly I slotted SA into all of my knock abilities, no senseless knockback here, this set is basically just soft CC and I'm here for it But the more I played this toon, I just feel like slotting knockdown in everything... handicaps it So... yes it's impossible to screw over the team if you remove all knockback But now you're building around this one enhancement, and putting it everywhere, I can't get all the set bonuses I want Plus some enemies just straight up don't care about <1Mag knocks, it became really apparent on tornado, I cast it and some enemies are just completely unaffected, it sucks. So I started experimenting with KB in group settings, slowing taking SA out of my kit and trying out different ways to utilize KB to benefit the team. It felt like learning to ride a bike without training wheels. Yes, you fall and hurt yourself (or in this case your team) but it's part of the process and the more you do it the less you fall. The more I use the set without SA the more I'm convinced that it is definitely a handicap. You're meant to push enemies into walls and corners, use the environment to group them, debuff them, and then nuke them. You're meant to corral them and set up big damage plays for yourself and your teammates. 269 hours and a handful of respecs later, I'm very pleased with this build, it's challenging but I'm able to consistently solo +4 x8 content with... let's say controlled chaos In groups I'm very careful about my positioning and never fire a knockback unless I know it will benefit the team I mean... when I think I know, I still screw up sometimes, but I'm never just careless Sometimes I find teams that adapt to my playstyle and we are able to shove enemies into corners all day and go to work on them Sometimes I find teams that can't adapt and that's fine too, I have to adapt too sometimes The issue is, my way of adapting w/out SA is often holding back. I end up ignoring about half my kit. The set is based around positioning enemies just as much as it's based around debuffing them; but virtually no teams play in a way that benefits from storm's strategy. People don't round enemies up into corners they start mosh pits in the center of the room. Some may adapt, but others won't and they shouldn't have to. So you're left with 2 options if you don't slot SA. Force everyone else to play around you (which is selfish and unfun), or spend so much time being cautious that you would have contributed more to the team on any other power set. And we're right back to square one. I'm handicapping myself. There's simply no way to play Storm to it's max capability in a team setting unless your team is willing to play around you. Slotting SA makes your knocks less effective against the enemies that actually need to be knocked, and prevents you from forcing enemies into an ideal position, but not slotting it forces you to pull your punches in most teams. Set needs a rework, here's what I'm proposing: Add a Toggle ability. We'll call this "Low Pressure System." Low Pressure System (LPS) changes the attributes of your wind-related powers This ability will replace Thunder Clap It will also be the 3rd ability, Snow Storm will become the 7th By default Gale will Knock Back With LPS toggled, gale will Knock To (the player) O2 Boost will be buffed In addition to cleansing stuns and sleeps it will now cleanse: confuse, fear, taunt, and immobilize Snow Storm will now have a fear component Low magnitude and duration, but balanced to maintain the same functionality as Thunder Clap (should have ~100% fear uptime on minions when fully slotted) By default, Hurricane will repel With LPS toggled Hurricane will attract (similar to how enemies are pulled towards singularity) Hurricane will also begin repelling or attracting at the start of the cast animation; however the animation still can not be interrupted By default, Tornado will Knock Back (previously Knock Up) With LPS toggled Tornado will Knock To (the tornado) Tornado will also have its movement speed reduced to roughly the same speed as the walk toggle, making this pet more predictable/manageable To compensate, its effective radius will be improved; bringing it in line with most standard auras The base knock magnitude will be reduced, however. Enemies will remain in your jurisdiction without any knock enhancements Profit I think these changes would benefit the set by improving its versatility and accessibility. Anyone who dislikes the idea of LPS can always stick with their current build (unless they took Thunder Clap) and just leave SA slotted in there. Anyone not wanting to use SA can have a more versatile build that can utilize knocks more strategically and less delicately. I've only discussed this with one other person and the only rebuttals were that Snow Storm would be worse since Fear makes enemies scatter, and more knocks would make storm a more annoying set when used by most randoms. But Snow Storm already applies panic which makes enemies scatter. This would just make them unable to attack while scattering unless you attack them first; that combined with the LPS enhanced wind powers like Tornado and Hurricane enemies shouldn't be scattering unless you allow it. As for the increased knocks, LPS would pull enemies closer together rather than disperse them, even if done carelessly. At least this would give randoms the chance to accidentally benefit their team. It was for these reasons I was more concerned that the proposed changes would overtune the set. That said, that's only two perspectives, I'm certain the rest of you will have more to say, feel free to discuss I'm open to defending this stance, and I'm willing to entertain the idea that I'm wrong I just know I love my storm summoner but I often wonder why I'm not playing a more useful set and... that feels bad

— not sure why posted twice —

Considering I was 12 when I made these characters I’m a bit reluctant to share the names but My old Justice mains: Strange Ninja PB Jason now on Excelsior @ValiantBlu Gen Joule Capt Kelvin Pvt Pascal

Been thinking about this comment I made a lot over the past few days Wildly disrespectful to the original dev team and honestly not authentic, just frustrated To be clear, I mained a Peacebringer on Live, and the first time I unlocked the AT, back in 2006, I thought they were so cool the very first time I used the forms, and honestly still do I just get tired of not seeing my costume, which is why I ended up going with a human only PB. Love the aesthetic of the light powers but after spending so much time at the tailor to only see it when I'm hanging out in Atlas Park feels bad But at the same time, I always missed using the forms and what they do functionally Up to this point I'd only ever mained damaged classes in every game I played White Dwarf is honestly what I always consider to be what lead me to my love of tanks and it was shortly after switching to human-only that I rolled my first tanker in CoH, (invul/energy) The point I'm trying to get at is, from the start it was the forms that drew me in because they were cool And probably a big reason why I don't main Kheldians anymore is because the excitement of transforming into a squid/lobster alien wore off within about 2 months of my first one... it's been 18 years since then