jubakumbi

And a corollary to that is an argument that the existence of said gated content would encourage people to both play that content and stay to play in general, if there was more of that content added. I think the gated content sans costumes is already mostly there in the form of badges and temp powers, personally, and HC is adding more badges. I also think that this gated content will have no real impact on player retention at this point in the games lifecycle. I don't play gated content now in MMOs that still have corporate funding, I never played it in COH, unless I felt like the content was fun, Playing content just to open a gate on a character is a chore like cleaning the garage, it is not fun like playing in the sprinkler on a hot day, IMO. Sure, I might have a clean garage to show off, but who cares? A huge reason I loved this game in the first place was that my 'earned gear' had nothing to do with my appearance. I literally played the cape mission only a handful of times on Live, once when it was just new, and once later for a character that needed a cape for concept. I adopted Edna's outlook of "No Capes!" and to this day, I don't design costumes with capes because of that stupid Gate. Seriously. That cape content gate ruined any chance I ever had of making capes a regular part of my costume designs, it negatively impacted my creative output and my general mood. When we discovered there real reason, that the software could not handle the rendering and the devs just wanted to lessen the number of in-game capes, I realized stifling creativity was part of their plan to keep the game up and running, from my POV, just like the misinformation and rage against the players over AE. This is how I see all cosmetics as earned content in games - stifling the creativity of players for money. I don't think I ever had all the accolades from TFs and stuff...as in, not all on one character, but not all total spread over 30+ 50's. Chores in a video game have simply never been my thing. I participate today in MMOs with the seasonal content like COH has, and never enter any of the season content, because I am playing the game to escape from real life and/or I am focused on what I want to do, not what the extroverts want me to do with them right now. At least the ones in COH are basically just power leveling events, like ToT. So, the idea that having more of these gates, that adding more of them, will increase player numbers and retention is what I think is simply misguided, from people that are on the edge of outgrowing the game or needing a break, and thinking that 'if they just' then the game would be fresh and new again...you can never really go home, as the saying goes... Nothing wrong with adding more badges and tiny % increases to the power creep IMO to make some people who like them have the opportunity to get them, IMO, but it won't have some magic impact on player numbers. I think opening up more of the current content has a higher chance of keeping the game interesting for more people, over creating in-game hoops for players to jump through, like making all content level with your character, etc. And, finally, I know I am sick of being called a 'casual' simply because I choose to play more creatively, I challenge anyone to out-do some of my builds, I can min-max with the best in this game. Simply because I don't enjoy the square-dancing grind, simply because I don't base my well-being on being able to show others in game what I have accomplished, I am called 'casual' like it's some insult - I take it to mean that I can play games like rational individual rather than a rabid-fanboi, knowing they are games for fun, not a second job or a way to prove to others I am worthy... Happy Holidays!

You are able to convey your options and outlooks without tearing down or directly insulting other POVs to make you point. IME, and obviously that of others, some posters are not, and cannot state their preferred playstyles and opinions w/o denigrating other playstyles, or using them as examples of 'bad', to somehow promote their outlooks. For me, it's just that simple.

I tackle depression where and when I see it, I don't consider it to be off limits. I am not demonizing anyone by recognizing humans play to get hits of dopamine, it has nothing to do with addiction in general. This is the first post I have even referenced addiction on these forums, I think. IMO, you tried to use some idea that there is an onus on the players running a game should feel bad for not getting more people to play, because those players 'needed' the game. That's it. If that is not your intent, as you have explained, Great! You can read in whatever else you like.

This is the rub for the whole, decades old, never ending, drama filled, 'holy war' about the idea of 'earning' anything in a video game. It is totally, completely, 100% subjective. What one player calls a 'chore', another calls a grind and another calls 'appropriate'...and none of those are exclusive and the POVs change with time. When you have people playing for fundamentally different reasons because they get their dopamine in fundamentally different ways, there is no way to please to masses. IMO, this is much more of a life outlook that bleeds into games more than it's a game playstyle bleeding into real life. Some people want everyone to get everything available in the code to use as tools to make characters from the start, making comic based clip books and stories, while other want a super-hero life simulator, and everything in between. All I want is for people to stop martyring themselves over these ideas, acting as if people have deeply wronged them personally simply because we see life differently. While others are tired of whatever, I grow weary of the constant refrain that simply disagreeing, even if passionately, is an attack, but I live in reality and I know it's a pipe dream, just like adding/changing most of what is discussed in these threads because that's reality.

Virtually all of it, because it's all written in such a way that it virtually removes all character/player agency. Most all of it forces the character down a narrow path, IMO. No different than most of the rest of the genre, TBH.

I prefer to examine the why over the details of the thing discussed, so sure, I do have a differnt scope, cannot disagree. I draw context where I see it, thanks, not just where you think it's appropriate. 🙂 Not dialing back at all really, I totally think the whole idea of having to earn costume rewards is directly tied to the monetization of these games ad is the root cause of training people to think these gates are a 'playstyle', I was using it also as an example of leveraging the PWE in others as a dopamine lever. We make the rules, we can alter them at will, it's not chess ... but it is now COH:HC, so really, HC makes the rules. The only intersting thing to me is why people bring up these ideas, especially for a gme in this state, the brain chemistry and outlook behind the thoughts are the fascinating part, the details all just change form game to game, mountain to mountain, molehill to molehill. Totally different scope, no question. Why people want to turn games like this into discrete chores is just one of teh things I love to examine within the gaming community.

No money has to be involved to want to invoke the PWE, I was not talking about strict monetary gain when I referenced PWE. The entire premise of having to 'earn' things in a game that is dedicated to enjoying free time, is based on the PWE, IMO. That is the idea behind having to 'earn' any of these things in teh game. Since it is no longer a Retail game, that simply becomes more evident, IMO. As for wasting time, it's mine to waste, but good on you for trying to get in a 'your time is useless jab'... Your idea to 'use basic english and clues', IMO, shows just how you are still wanting to throw punches for some reason, another inuendo that I must be daft. Too funny.

Back to the old 'wanting everything for free', huh? Nothing to do with it. There is no retail game. It is not a Job. The bits in the DB have been flipped so we can have all the costume parts up front. Yet, some people still seem to think those bits in the DB having been flipped gives us 'free' stuff that we did not 'earn'. I don't need the Protestant Work Ethic in my video game to enjoy it...it's really just that simple. I understand there are those that DO want the PWE in thier games. They have the tools to make thier own gates.

Really sorry to break it to you, but that is a very disingenuous outlook. Sure, I can play the binaries on other hardware. The playerbase, however, touted as the 'reason' to play the game by many, is primarily on HC, so we are at the mercy of thier choices, in terms of the game existing as a 'whole', over simply saying you can fire up the binaries and run them. You seem to simply not like the _term_ I used, and choose to think it is negative - that's you assigning an emotion to the words, IMO. I did not say I was trapped. I said we are all at the mercy of the choices the HC team makes, it's just reality, just like Live - if you want to stay where the players have decided to hang out, then you are at the mercy of the people running those servers for the changes to the game. Being at the mercy of a few people making the rules the masses will play with is not being trapped, unless you choose to look at it that way. I don't. It's no different than any other game, really. You seem to be assuming I am using the language to somehow convey a negative 'feeling', wheras I simply think I used the most accurate word, IMO.

Yes, I have one on my machine. Admitting we are at thier mercy disparages them how, exactly? I am also thankful we can play the game, but HC iteself is not the reason we can play the game. Saying that HC now pretty much controls the main playerbase of the game and that we at thier mercy is simply accepting reality. So how is pointing that out insulting them?

But they said 'seems selfish', and it does. That is not calling a person selfish, that is saying the idea seems selfish from thier POV. Very different. I would like it if so many people would not assume an attack on the idea is an attack on them. As for the Army Ranger comparison - thanks for your service - but I don't need that kind of rigid structure in my videos games, thanks. It's a video game, not a life simulator. If you want to play to the lore, you can, making other people do it does sound selfish at this point int eh games lifecycle, even if you, yourself, don't see it that way or consider your outlook to be selfish. This is the rub. If you use your own self-discipline from that Army Ranger training, you can create the dopamine pay-off you desire, w/o the game forcing it. We have people that claim they want something, but seem unwilling to go and do it, when the tools exist, and try to tell everyone else they have to chage course. That, IMO, is denying reality.

I think the accolades are fine as-is, those don't really have the impact at character creation something like not have a cape does, IMO. I would not have an issue with being able to purchase them, but I don't see the point, i would not do it, IMO the bonuses are not worth running the content or spending resources. Besides, IMO, the bonues are so small when you look at IOs, etc., that I never bother to use any of them and I have god-characters from IOs. Anything that can be used in a character concept, IMO, should not be gated at this point. IMO, the gate people have been trained on as a playstyle is a retail trick to get people to play/pay more. Badges and the like are more like true 'badges of honor' from having 'done things', regardless of the reason, be it e-peen, a small bouns, or just personal satisfaction. At this point, I see no positive impact from adding gated things...badges are, IMO, just a things that happens from doing stuff. All of the industry has awakened to the fact the best move is to make the current content more accessible.

I personally think it's more comedy gold that there are numerous instances of offers of a middle ground and comprimise, but some voices continue to say they do not exist. This denial of reality is, IME, at the root of this whole argument, coupled with the attitude of things got 'taken away' rather than 'changed'. IMO, this is a prime example of the attitude 'if you understood, you would agree', something a lot of humans tend to exhibit, IME. @DSorrow, you are doing the people's work here, hat's off to you! It's amazing to me that we can show right now that using the tools in-game, players can gate anything they like with a little self-discipline and a personal goal and still get told there is no way for it to work, when it already does. It will never cease to amaze me that some people want to turn these games into some form of second life/job/career/lifestyle and think the rest of us are 'not understanding' because we just want to play a video game for a while, not prove to anyone, ourselves, other random people on the Internet, no-one that we 'deserve' to wear a cape. However, none of this has changed in the decades I have played games. None of it. These are circular arguments that have all existsed since we have been talking about games, my whole life. The Wheels on the Bus go Round and Round...it's entertaining!

You are right, much more like martyrdom IMO.

Why would anyone think that a fundamental, ages old, MMO issue would get solved on a forum for fan server of a dead game? Why would anyone think that the people on the forum would gather around any specific idea? For an example that shoots down 'nobody' willing to comprimise, adding in the costume parts as TF rewards that can be acquired with some other in game currency would work fine to me - so there is a comprimise, right there. The issue is attitude and outlook. If you choose to view things as having been taken away, nothing anyone else says can change that outlook. My outlook is simply that things changed, rather than things were taken from me, especially in a video game. As for the toxic guilt trip someone is trying to lay on the thread that by not encouraging someone to play the game through changing and adding content, anyone is somehow dimissing mental health issues, I wish I could post what I really think...but I will try and do it in a way that will last longer... While these games are a great tool and coping mechanism for a large number of at-risk people, it is not some idea that can be used as a weapon to make people think a group of fans running a dead game need to make changes to accomodate people with issues, when they are lucky to even keep it running. That kind of guilt trip is exactly the reason I refer to the 'community' of this game in the negative terms I often use.