crimson72
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Posts posted by crimson72
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13 minutes ago, Rudra said:
Those who want to put in the effort to game the market are going to. The OP will punish those who don't game the market far worse than it will handicap those who do. Because the ones who do will simply look at how the market has been changed, realize they can now charge even more because the supply has gone down, and invest the time to figure out just how much more they can get other players to pay for the reduced availability.
Ok, you make a reasonable point. I'm merely offering suggestions to raise talking points about this, and there are things that can be implemented to improve this for nearly everyone. Maybe limiting the maximum number of items you can sell or buy in a day isn't a good idea for reasons that you've stated, but I think huge taxes on items that greatly exceed the average price, as well as some stricter limitations on posting and bidding (possibly higher than what I suggested) still seems sensible to me.
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32 minutes ago, biostem said:
You mean "priced at an amount I am willing to pay". You want to remove any long-term/delay of gratification strategies from listing on the AH.
It seems to be commonly agreed by most reasonable people that as long as people find a way to play the game and enjoy themselves in a way that doesn't negatively impact the enjoyment of others, that's fine. But when you have people intentionally putting stuff up at wildly insane prices in hopes to over charge people who expect to pay average prices and get it relatively quickly, then I'd argue the ones doing that are negatively impacting the game of others, therefore measures should be in place to strongly penalize this.
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I've had bids up for 5+ days on some items at what I assumed were reasonable prices that others paid according to the log. If there's a way to pull up a longer term log, like average price paid for a given item over the period of a year for example, I haven't figured out how to access that. I would gladly pay the yearly median price for any given item without any complaints.
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1 minute ago, biostem said:
You mean "priced at an amount I am willing to pay". You want to remove any long-term/delay of gratification strategies from listing on the AH.
Correct. This would benefit nearly everyone.
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4 hours ago, Psyonico said:
Can only pray 10 items at a time? So when I get 6 merits for fighting a GM and try to sell the 18 converters I get out of that and can't?
No
Just
No
Wrong. You sell one block of 10 of them, if it's priced reasonably it should be a near insta-sell. Then feed the other 8 in there and you just sold them all in a few secs. My suggestion of doing this is in part to encourage people to put instant sell prices on stuff vs trying to price fix and over charge people looking to buy. This would make the AH better for pretty much everyone involved except for a small minority of players. Last I checked, converters were between 60-70k. The player who puts 10 converters up for 100k is going to be waiting a very long time to sell those, and in the process their 10 slots will be occupied. Limitations discourage people from doing this, and it's something that would benefit nearly everyone, because nearly everyone would benefit if you can make bids on items for reasonable prices and simply get their items right then and there.
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I'll use an example:
The level 40 "budget" build. This would be 100m+ now, if you used the AH to buy the stuff. There's no way any of you could put that together for anything close to 20m.
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It's NOT stable. If so, then explain to me why builds that cost 20m a couple years ago are now in excess of 100m to build? I'm talking like relatively budget stuff. Not one person has offered a rational explanation for this. People fixing the market/prices is the most logical explanation.
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3 minutes ago, Ignatz the Insane said:
OK, probably not what you're looking for, but anecdotally:
As much as I was swimming in Merits while leveling, I was constantly using them on my crafting toon. This was after leveling several toons on generic IOs and frankenslotting. My first 50 became my main in many ways, including spending a few minutes every session buying yellow recipes, crafting them, rare roulette, and selling. At times it became tedious, but I made a ton of money. But I was always short Merits. They were gold for marketeering. Eventually, I soloed melee projects to fund Merits to fund crafting to fund Squishy alts who didn't solo as quickly or easily.
Then I had 20 Billion or so and....stopped. I haven't needed any more. Some of that real world stuff like not being able to play as much. Even so, I doubt I'll ever need to farm or grind for money again.
What were you aiming for with converters to try and flip? Chances are, I have some recipes in my inventory right now that I could "convert" to a payout. I also have 60 or so converters I got normally just doing whatever (mostly AE farming)
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I'll strongly consider using converters, I find a lot of recipes while farming, and last I checked on the AH converters were selling for around 60-70k a piece. I'm trying to calculate the ratio of 1 converter per merit and estimate whether it's quicker to simply get 3.5 million inf through farming vs getting 50 merits from a TF or whatever content you acquire them from. 3.5 million doesn't take very long at all to get, even on my under equipped spines/fire brute who's still a purple pill addict. I'd estimate the rate to increase by a whole lot if I was fully kitted to the point where I had max defenses and resists. Even looking at merits from the perspective of 50 being able to buy a luck of the gambler defense/recharge 7.5% for 50 merits, which typically goes for around 6m on the AH, even 6 million inf might still be quicker to obtain even with a brute who's an unoptimized purple pill addict over grinding merits.
Can someone tell me how long it takes to get 50 merits using the best known methods? A quick search suggests about 45 minutes to an hour, but that could be wrong, or maybe it's better now, these were topics a few years old.
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A power leveled 50 alt can still exemplar down and do task forces, etc if that ends up being a good method. So it's not like leveling to 50 misses anything other than certain story archs.
I don't care so much for the stories in MMORPGs, and this is one of the reasons why I tried, and couldn't play a game like Final Fantasy 14 with the forced main story arch, it was mind numbing for me, when all I wanted to do was run dungeons/raids/etc and get loot. People don't have to like that, but that's my preferred way of playing MMORPGs.
I can state for a fact that the number of games I've played for the story is 0.
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3 minutes ago, Ignatz the Insane said:
This simply isn't true. The game certainly isn't more difficult that it was on live. Toons run perfectly fine on SOs....although I'd buy generic IOs starting at level 22 rather than use SOs. Sure you should be 'fully kitted in sets' for Hard Mode stuff, but nearly everything else absolutely doesn't require it.
There are a variety of ways to make money. All of them take a bit of time and a bit of effort. My advice? I'd follow Yomo's advice and solo a melee character to 50 running solo story arcs and Task Forces. You'll accumulate over 1000 Merits doing so, along with a bunch of recipes, which you can craft, convert and either sell or use. I'm a big fan of newer players frankenslotting their first few toons.
If you want some specific advice on making money using the Market with little time investment, head on over to the Market forum. Put those Merits to use!
Can you offer a specific example for how merit farming is more efficient than AE farming (includes selling drops/recipes and inf gained)? I've asked this before, and I've never gotten a decent response. I'm interested, if you can at least provide me with some specifics. You don't need to type a huge wall of text, just an example of why this method is more efficient/better than this other method is all I'm asking for. Because it seems to me like this is simply an alternative for people who don't like AE grinding more so than it being a better method. I'm open to trying it.
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Nobody has to like people power leveling, that's their personal opinion, but absolutely nobody can deny that power leveling hasn't always been a part of CoH gameplay at every single point during the game's life. If one method was nerfed, another area/map/build became meta for whatever the new method was. This is and always has been a thing.
Anyone who remembers the old game can attest to all the farm groups running portals in PI. Virtually every single team entering and exiting portals were farming groups power leveling. Pretty much every SG (the ones worth joining at least) had dedicated farm tanks who helped the group level up alts.
Even lower level teams, the tanks would herd up massive swarms on the overworld, or in missions, and buffers/healers/blasters would do their roles to keep the tank alive and eliminate the packs. It was fun.
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7 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:
wow. you get that from me /e facepalming farming and powerleveling?
Nothing is forcing you to market it you don't want to.
To me, I was first against powerleveling.
Some missions that were routinely farmed had timers put on them to stop farming
Then the AE came out ... The AE farms are power-leveling on steroids. What was to be a creative tools for players to create and share content was turned into a farming-fest and power-leveling tool.
If anything, CoH was turned into a power-leveling farming game and not a marketing simulator.
Players join and don't want to bother playing the actual game because they can get power-leveled to 50 in a couple of hours.
I'm going to hold back saying any more.
If you think CoH is a power leveling simulator now, then you haven't seen nothing. CoH was always a power leveling simulator. I still remember the time when tanks had no aggro limits, and cones/aoes would hit as many targets that were in range, and tanks could quite literally herd an entire AE meteor map worth of enemies into an ice patch and burn the whole stack down. Ask anyone who played back then, they can attest to the almighty fire/ice tank. The pwnage was so hardcore, that even factoring in double exp at current rates, the exp/hr is still overall lower than it was back then. You could also sidekick people with a level 46, so level 1s were sidekicked at 45, and while the tank was burning down massive stacks of 53s, and the sidekicks got full exp gains.
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Also, queing for content has never worked once for me. That was one of the very first things I tried when I started this game looking for teams was to simply use the que, and hope that it worked like a traditional que function in MMORPGs. Turns out that nobody really uses it. It's frustrating that nobody seems to use such a convenient feature for teaming. I tried to que for dfbs many times on several low level alts, and waited in ques for an excess of 30+ minutes before dropping them. Why the community seems to insist on totally ignoring this as well as the game's traditional teaming feature (setting yourself as looking for group + a comment) is a complete mystery to me as a returning player. Back when I played on live, people would have absolutely used that que if we had it. It's an example of an actual good feature that was added since I last played that nobody seems to take advantage of.
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1 hour ago, Sanguinesun said:
For the record, I've never in all these years earned "10's of billions" of influence. I personally do not known anyone who has though Im sure there are some that will chime in on the forums here to say they do/have. I would say they're not the typical player. Your belief that you need to earn that is a bit over the top to be honest. That's more how you perceive things that the actuality of what folks as a whole do, I believe.
With all that said then, correct me if Im misunderstanding you at this point.
1. You feel you cant get teams on the most popular server and give up after 15 minute intervals. (btw I've leveled a toon to 32 today, 95 merits, one aether, and have through selling drops, the aether and more gotten over 6 million influence whilst doing so and had zero issues with finding teams throughout the day and this evening having started teaming at level 5 and just finished a task force to be said level 32.
2. You feel only grinding in the AE as a farmer is the only way you feel comfortable with playing to earn influence.
3. You dislike the Auction house and do not wish to use it in any capacity.
4. You dislike playing content in the game that earns merits and also feel its a grind.
5. You dislike invention enhancers, set enhancers.
6. You with the game was just SO and HO's from the early days.
7. You've been dismissive of every suggestion, recommendation, and ways to help you from people throughout the thread.
Would this all then accurately characterize your thoughts and feelings to this point?
If so, I've only one other question for you:
Due to seemingly most all facets of what comprises of playing this game are disliked by you and you're unhappy; because your wants do not match the reality of what homecoming servers are providing, what can we do otherwise to help you?
1. What I said was true based on my experience, which I already said could vary wildly depending on if you have friends or know people who play this game. And to be perfectly honest, this would have been the exact same in live had I not knew a network of people who also played the game. Thugs/Poison mastermind could barely solo 0/1 radio missions, and it was quite slow, so I was desperate for a team, and couldn't reliably find one. At some point you give up and find a way to solo with a stronger build that doesn't rely on whatever the whims of the day are, and how active other players are. I could be the only person on the server, and my AE farm is running regardless.
2. This is partly true, as the other methods don't really suit my style.
3. This is NOT true, I have sold rare salvage on the AH and have used it to purchase things. I've stated my issues with the AH very clearly.
4. This is true, because it's seeming less efficient than simply AE farming and getting inf and drops to sell. AE grinding vs grinding for merits is all the same to me, whichever provides the better gains is what I'd prefer. Maybe you can provide a specific example of how grinding for merits is overall more efficient than grinding AE for drops?
5. This is NOT true, I simply dislike some of the methods for acquiring them.
6. Yes, when I played during live there were no IOs, and no AH. If I was to state which I prefer more, SOs and hamis to the current system, I'd prefer earlier issue CoH to the current issue for sure, all things considered. In fact if there was a server that ran a pre-ED version of CoH, I'd 100% be playing that version, and would abruptly abandon current issue.
7. I wouldn't say every, but many of them yes. Because they're recommendations that don't really suit my style of play. I've already stated that I've given strong consideration to making an alt account to power level my main like one poster recommended in this topic.
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Here's how this could be addressed. At any given time you can only have 10 items posted for sale, and additionally be bidding on 10 items, and can only purchase 50 items per 24hr period, and separately sell 50 items per 24hr period. This would bottleneck access to the market through limitations that wouldn't discourage a player like me, but it would discourage rampant price manipulation. People likely wouldn't put up low value items like white and yellow salvage, but others have already stated that the system gets involved in some cases to sell these. Anyone trying to repost an item that's wildly above the market average for that item should either be denied, or have to pay a really high % posting fee, around 50%+. It won't look like such a good idea if you're trying to sell an item for 5x more than the average while getting footed for a 50% tax on something that's going to sit for a long time and take up limited posting space. Anyone caught using multi-boxing or multiple separate accounts to grossly circumvent the limitations should have all their accounts banned.
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People sitting on 10s of billions got the currency to just buy up all of a certain recipe or enhancement posted on the market, let's say they just clean them all out for 1m a pop, and then proceed to just repost them all up at 3-5 million a pop? There's zero measures in place to keep people from doing this, and that's really the core of the problem I have with markets is people manipulating them in this manner. Putting more limits on selling could curve this somewhat, or at least discourage it.
I've already seen cases just searching for specific enhancements, where there's only a few of a certain type for sale with 600+ people bidding and it's absolutely clear that the prices are being manipulated artificially here. People with 10s of billions are controlling the supply and unilaterally deciding what the new price is. So, it's not that I don't know how to do this, I very well could, I just find such activities to be unsavory.
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Anyone care to explain why a set that cost 20m in 2019 now costs 100m+? I was looking at budget builds, and the builds people say they did for 20m in 2019-2020 are absolutely not possible to do anymore for anything close to that amount. I think the only way to explain this is people playing market simulator and driving up the prices, as players amass more currency by doing nothing, they're more inclined to keep doing this and keep gradually driving the prices up as there's really not much of a currency sink for these players.
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I've already looked into merits, and it's not a good investment of time to grind merits, if you're gonna grind you might as well just run a farm tank. I was looking at spending 50 merits on a luck of the gambler defense/recharge, and it turned out I could just buy it off the AH with money I got farming in less time that it would have taken to get 50 merits.
Specifically with markets, the real issue I take is that players manipulate markets for gains. I don't take issue with a market existing for the purposes of bartering or trading on a base level. For me with markets it's more about how to implement markets/trading in a game while also designing it in a way where players can't just play market simulator is a smarter way to do it IMO. DIablo 4 is case and point for a way that this was addressed. Also, launch Diablo 3 vs RoS where they totally killed the auction house. I quit playing D3 at launch, that was really my first experience with a game that had a robust marketplace, and I didn't like it at all.
Also even in WoW, there's trading on some things, but you can't just trade for best in slot equipment, you have to raid for that. I found WoW's market to mostly be a sellers market for players like me, I rarely if ever purchased anything on it and only sold. And after some time, I was at the point where I didn't interact with the market at all. WoW's market would have been a serious issue for me if people could just drive the prices up on equipment by speculating the market, and items weren't soulbound and you could just trade whatever the hell you wanted to. That would have made it more like this game's market.
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11 minutes ago, FFFF said:
Nothing stops you from playing that way. The game still has merchant-purchasable SOs and DOs. Invention salvage actually makes it easier. Get 2-3 pieces of orange salvage and you’re pretty much set, since you can insta-sell them for 500k each.
I have a character who runs on mostly common crafted IOs, a few SOs and crafting a few useful, found recipes. Once you get around 50-60% level 25-30 common IOs, you have no influence worries. The character is absolutely fine solo and quality of enhancements are largely irrelevant in team settings anyway since buffs and debuffs are so powerful.
I don't like it because I feel penalized for not engaging in the economy in a more robust way. The more people talk about how effortless it is to just make billions on the market, the more I'm convinced this is the case. Some people like market simulator, other's don't. Taking a game that wasn't a market simulator and turning it into one is going to turn some people away, there's no way to make both sides happy when you add stuff like that. Because the people who don't like it take issue with the fact that it exists in the game at all.
SOs and DOs don't hack it. I learned this first hand by playing a couple of characters. In the original game, back when I played, hamidons were best in slot, and other than that you had SOs. So a 50 fully kitted in SOs with a couple of hamis was quite strong compared to a similarly equipped character in the current game. You'd need to be fully kitted in sets in this one. This is extra stuff they added that I don't care for, and I either participate or run a gimped character, or stop playing.
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5 hours ago, KC4800 said:
Farming to power level your lowbie weak character, I am assuming through dual boxing, is different from just making a Farming Brute or Tank and farming solo for influence. I don't have any trouble with you doing either. However, some in the community do not like to play with a new 50 who made it to 50 by getting power leveled. They automatically think you do not know how to use your powers correctly. When I start a new character with powers I have never used or do not know their best use, I tend to solo that character and learn the powers, while feeding him influence my farming tank grinds for. It takes a while to get to that point.
Welcome back to the game. There is a whole lot of new content to enjoy that doesn't require a lvl 50. This is not a game that ever required you to get to max level to actually enjoy the content.
It doesn't take awhile to learn how to use a powerset. There's no extraordinarily complex rotations that require full and complete focus in order to play in this game. People said that about Mastermind, but I found it to be a pretty chill class to play, although it was extremely weak (at least Thugs/Poison was). I copied some button binds off a topic I googled, and that made Mastermind a lot easier to manage.
Also, as a returning player, I still remember how to use classes like controllers, tanks and blasters, the basic dos and don'ts. Like don't just run up and use rain of fire on a pack and take a freaking alpha strike. When the game was live, tanks really didn't like it when players put down CCs or moves that would scatter the packs. So moves like rain of fire, or moves with AOE knockback effects (exception for nuclear AOEs that do massive damage), people didn't generally use them.
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Unfortunately, I'm disappointed to see yet another game turned into a market simulator. You know I really liked Path of Exile as well, but couldn't find a way to enjoy that one either because of "markets" and "trading". And it seems like I'm in a similar position with this game. I'm the type of player who'd rather find their own drops. So I much prefer a system like Diablo 3's to Path of Exile's system, or games where you find or craft your own gear. Diablo 4 is right around the corner, and I'll be playing that instead of this. There will be minimal trading in that game too, but far less so than this game or PoE, but you won't be trading for the best equipment.
I just can't say as a returning player from issue 7 or 8 that I approve a lot of the changes made in later issues.
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1 minute ago, Nemu said:
I find the current player base don't read. They may very well spam in LFG that they are forming teams but they don't read the same channel they post and grab people interested in joining teams. It's far easier to get invites by sending tells to people advertising for teams and even then you may run into people that lack the common courtesy to respond back with a "we are full."
I totally get where you are coming from. There are days that I don't want to deal with illiterate players or players that lack common courtesy and it's much easier to close myself in. Fortunately this game is lax enough where you can do just that.
On the other hand, if you do give teaming a chance you might find yourself having fun with some cool people, some of which might even make your friend list.
If you play mostly on Excel, you can also ask those Sovereign guys that are always kneeling in Oro to invite you to their SG/coalition. That coalition is pretty active.
Someone invited me to a SG, and I accepted, but this SG turned out to be a massive wall of completely inactive level 50 characters. It was probably 1 person's alts.
Also, I do like teaming, but I'm not going to wait around too long to get on one. I've taken advantage of opportunities to do a couple of TFs for example, but beyond content like this, I don't see too many advantages for teaming doing stuff like radio missions for example. Half the teams I've been on seem to insist on trying to bite off more than they can chew on difficulty and spawns. I already knew from playing this game previously that ramping up the difficulty and spawns without some damage dealers on the team makes for a not so fun experience. Getting bogged down by a massive swarm of freakshow while players are dropping left and right just isn't a very intelligent way to play.
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17 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:
Forgive me if this sounds condescending; it's not meant to, but you should put the Looking For Group channel (LFG) on it's own tab and keep an eye on it. That's where most of the team ups occur, unless you have a private channel of friends.
Welcome back!
I logged in on 4 separate days looking for a team, and after 15 minutes I just logged out of the game. Soloing is painful on a fresh start. This was on Excelsior server as well. It takes a lot of effort to find a decent team, far more so than it takes to just AE farm. I'm not going back to spamming LFGs hoping for a group anymore. Those days are completely behind me.
I might take that suggestion above about making an alt to level up my characters. The very last thing I want to do is sit and spam an LFG for 15 minutes hoping someone sends me an invite. I'd rather take advantage of opportunities to join teams for TFs or whatever vs it being pretty much required for a character.
Also, people don't seem to use the team function, where you flag yourself as looking for group. In old CoH that system worked, and people would message you and ask if you'd like to team up for X or Y. I never once got an invite by flagging myself as lfg on the team function. I don't know why nobody seems to use it anymore.
Implement more measures to curve market manipulation.
in Suggestions & Feedback
Posted · Edited by crimson72
How about ignore some of the other stuff I suggested, and let's focus on higher % taxes for erroneously priced items?
I'll use an example. A luck of the gambler defense/recharge 7.5% typically goes for around 6m, no? Let's just say that's the average price for that item. Now, someone shows up and posts a 12m tag on it, they have to put up 50% instead of 10%, or 6 million just to post it. Meaning nobody would realistically ever put up an item for double the going market rate. And people attempting to do this could be given some sort of notification.
Also, I think information about the average price paid for a given item over a longer period than the last 5 sales of the item should be given to the player. It's a better context as to what the true average price might be. For all I know the last 5 items sold are lowball, or extraordinarily high, and I've got no info to help me know the difference.