DarkRevelation

Player created events, i.e. SNS, costume contests, Hami, MSR, etc. all create impact to a zone. No, they are random and therefore less predictable than a scheduled event on a low population server in a lowbie zone on a Saturday night. The person who runs the event has asked that Kronos not be spawned. You can be a contrarian for contrarian sake and argue that someone spawned it before (the 'but little Johnny did it' argument), argue that you are confused as to why it was asked that it not be spawned anymore (you are not owed an explanation, which is entitled behavior btw), go on about how it impacts others (All of those quest runners in Skyway City on a Saturday night on Torch? Get real, lol. The only time where there would be less people there is on a Sunday night. That event breathes life into a slow server at a slow time.), and complain about my attitude (woof! woof!), but it all boils down to this. She asked for it to stop. If you or anyone else doesn't like it, go create your own event and Kronos each other until you can't move anymore.

On that we agree, but I doubt we agree on where it is coming from. No, I'm just pointing out the error of your ways. This is a player created and run event scheduled for the same time each week. Thankfully the Game Masters have leeway and use common sense regarding things like player created events, i.e. SNS, costume contests, Hami, MSR, etc. Anyone can see that this is an established event NOT meant to grief others, but something that the community can all do together. This isn't using dimension shift on Hami, or dragging Monsters to a costume contest, where the intent is to harass/harm/troll and that makes it different. Rikti/zombie invasions could be considered griefing using your logic. They aren't and neither is SNS. I'm sure the community as a whole will breathe a sigh of relief knowing that you are on the case. You run on along now and do that, ya here?

I'm not your buddy, guy. Kali needs no one to white knight for her. Might want to check your entitlement - You and your echo chamber buddy keep tossing the word entitlement around, and I'm sorry (not really) but I have to do this: I'm not entitled to anything. Kali created the event, she runs the event, and does it for the server's enjoyment. She politely asked in broadcast on Saturday that Kronos not be brought to the event she runs. You speak of confusion and the need for 'clarification and insight' into the reasons why Kronos shouldn't be brought to the event. The person who runs the event asked that it be stopped. What more do you need? Does Kali owe you/everyone an explanation on why she asked that it be stopped? No. Does she owe you/everyone an explanation on how the event is run? No. Are you/everyone owed an explanation on why some group used Kronos in the past? No. Plain and simple, she asked that it be stopped. It doesn't matter if everyone on the server did it in the past, she asked that it end. You use the word entitlement, but who is acting entitled? You probably should have also quoted the rest of their post: It is not a driver issue unless the change to the GMs caused driver issues, which it didn't. Its not just her. A lot of people have complained to her about the Kronos problem.

One more time: Whatever the issue is, she asked for it to stop, period. Please respect what she has asked for. She asked that in broadcast on Saturday and she stated it here tonight on the forums. It should be crystal clear to you and everyone else as to how she feels about it. Regardless of who did what/when, this is what she is asking for. Please respect what she has asked for.

I'll repeat this: Whatever the issue is, she asked for it to stop, period. Please respect what she has asked for.

I'll leave this here for you. https://forums.homecomingservers.com/code-of-conduct/#multiboxing-policy Multiboxing Policy We allow a basic level of multiboxing on the Homecoming servers outside of peak times. These rules apply on a shard-by-shard basis (by ‘shard’ we mean Torchbearer, Excelsior, etc). If the status indicator for a shard is green (1 dot) or yellow (2 dots), you may play with up to three accounts at once. If the status indicator for a shard is red (3 dots, 1,100+ players) you may only play with a single account. If you are caught multiboxing repeatedly while a shard is red (1,100+ players players logged in), all of action will be taken against your account including being disconnected from the game or temorarily or permanently banned. It is your responsibility to monitor server status and current player count if you wish to multibox. You can do this both on our website and in the #live-shards channel on our Discord. An exception to this rule is raid zones (The Hive, The Abyss, the Labyrinth of Fog, etc.) which have a limited population cap. Multiboxing is not allowed in these zones. Breaking this rule may result in all of your characters being removed from the zone and short-term suspensions being issued for repeat offenders. Finally, Game Masters may request that you stop multiboxing during events such as the Halloween and Winter events to reduce server load or decongest populated areas. Please note that this policy does not apply to groups of players simply playing from the same home/network. It only applies to individuals playing multiple accounts on their own.

Whatever the issue is, she asked for it to stop, period. Please respect what she has asked for.

She is the one who politely asked that Kronos not be brought to the event that she started, runs and maintains every Saturday. This is certainly an odd way to show your appreciation for her efforts.

Yes, I understand that you were in a 'raid' of nine people, in a brand new zone/encounter in a game that doesn't get new zones/encounters very often, which killed the Minotaur. Now stop and ask yourself why were there only nine people in that raid? Low pop server? Maybe, but enough to dampen the excitement of a new zone/encounter? I doubt it. We run the only organized Lab runs on our server right now, and the most we can get is just under three teams. That is with us only running it once a week. Why? It should be packed with people trying this out, but it isn't. This is why: Let me post that last line again so it sinks in: It was neat the one time I went, there's better things to do with my time in game. Over, over and over this is what we hear from people about the zone. When asked what people thought about the Minotaur/Lab this is what we get. They'd rather run something they have run a thousand times before than do this new encounter because it simply isn't worth the investment of their time. They will run something that benefits them more. Again the cost vs reward ratio is not adequate as it stands right now. I'm sure they can pull numbers on the zone and see that people are just not using it. The word is out that it isn't worth it and people are staying away, save to get the badges and move on. @Glacier Peak the rewards may be fine for you, and may be fine for some others, but it doesn't matter if you stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and loudly say 'THE REWARDS ARE FINE FOR THE MINOTAUR AND THE LAB' as many times as you want, the numbers in the raids do not lie. We are lucky to get twenty at one time doing it only once a week. The same thing was brought up while it was on the test server. It's neat, but not worth my time. Do you understand now? Regardless of your feelings there is a prevailing attitude amongst the player base that this isn't worth their time. Keep championing that this is fine, enjoy your 'raids' of nine people and watch them slowly dwindle away. The numbers do not lie; most people are not using the zone outside of badges. It isn't worth their time. See how many people show up to your 'raid' once the Halloween event starts. People will be biting/kicking/scratching to get in one of the multiple full raids going, because THAT is worth their time. I really like this zone and want to see people using it, but I can't sell how cool it is to a lot of people. I need help in the form of meaningful rewards or it will wither and die, if it hasn't already.

That is a really, really good idea.

Your comparison is strictly reward based, which does not take into account other factors. What is the time investment and manpower required for defeating those GMs compared to the Minotaur? It is nowhere near the same. I don't know how many PUGs you have lead in the lab so far, but the time investment for someone who does is currently very steep. You don't just get to toss out a few things in league chat and take off. Granted, a lot of this is because it is new and a good bit of people have not invested any time in learning the Lab (at all), but the cost vs reward ratio is not adequate as it stands right now in my opinion, and unfortunately others as well. It takes a good bit of time to explain what needs done, why it needs done, how to do it, and when to do it. I love the zone and am very thankful for it, but it is not a simple tank and spank like your aforementioned GMs. It is going to take time to explain this to people, organize the run, do the run, and then all of the administrative tasks afterwards, which I will cover later on. I helped run one last week and I don't know how many times I was asked if this was really worth it. When I asked why didn't they think it was worth it, I was told the same answer by everyone. 'Yes we are getting more XP/INF but it is slower, and the rewards suck'. These were all lvl 50s who don't care as much about XP/INF past a certain point. A lvl 45 in there is all but carried. You can do that with a few 45s, but not too many. People want things to make their characters bigger/faster/stronger/different, and not just for that zone. Something needs to be boosted if you want people to use it and I'll explain. Take the Mapserver event a few months back. I swear some people would have kicked their grandmother down a flight of steps to get a spot in some of those raids. Why? Obviously the boosted XP from 1-50. We run Hamidon raids on Torch twice a day, 3-4 runs per raid, and most are close to capacity seven days a week. Why? The amount of reward merits has people there two hours a day every single day of the week. The cost of their time versus the reward of that amount of RMs spread out over alts drives that level of attendance. Love it or hate it, some people use AE to level/farm, even after multiple nerfs to XP/inf in those missions. I'm not going to go into why I think it is used so much, as it is a hot button topic and not for this thread. Regardless It is used extensively, and all day every day. We do iTrial runs twice a week, and they fill up. Again, the (chance) of getting something meaningful to improve their characters via incarnate materials. Not just a single chance at getting a shitty 'Enchanted Sand' either; multiple runs so the odds of not getting screwed by a having a 'Detailed Reports run' even out somewhat. Incarnate rolls are nice, but getting a common multiple runs in a row is like getting socks for Christmas. No one wants that shit. I mean its better than Aether/Primals to me, but not by a lot. I don't care one bit for aethers/primals; some do though. Adding a single incarnate roll is better than nothing for the Lab, but I can hit those other iTrial runs and have a much better chance at getting better incarnate items by sheer volume alone, and in less time than it takes to do the Lab in almost all cases, save for UG, and that currently would still be faster than the Lab. It isn't going to be enough to entice people to come in. I don't think it will even be close. The only thing in the game that I know of that has pretty good rewards but most people stay the Hell away from are the Shadow Shard TFs when they are the WST. It ain't worth it, no matter the reward in that case, i.e. time investment and aggravation. What I have seen so far is that people come in wanting the badges, and they cut out shortly after a few minutes of fighting mobs. The loss of shifts/levels means that they start taking damage at a higher rate. Even if you kept on going grinding mobs in the Lab after a Minotaur kill, the degradation of the level shifts from fighting mobs alone means you still need to hunt MalFogs to stay ahead of the curve. It looks like that is being addressed hopefully. The issue is that grinding mobs right after the Minotaur kill is not how things are being done, especially in a PUG. You have to factor in the amount of time it takes after a Minotaur kill right now to explain where XYZ is, and these badges are here/there/everywhere, motes, etc. Hopefully that will ease over time, but it will not if people don't use the zone. Right now people want the badges more than anything that I have seen, by far. That will eventually dry up and isn't sustainable for the zone to keep people coming back. We managed to retain enough people afterwards on the last run where we were able to grind mobs for 30 minutes, but that left only 30 minutes for the badges/motes, which is cutting it close shuttling people around, especially with most not core attuned. Unfortunately these were also the people who asked if this was really worth it, and they are the ones who stayed. The others just ducked out when things got tougher. If I had any asks for this zone I would ask that the XP/rewards/merits/something be boosted to make it notably worthwhile where people want to come in, and not just for the badges. I would also ask that the time be extended between the Minotaur death and its re-spawn, say two hours instead of one? It would allow more people who are unfamiliar with the zone to come in and look around and see that it is an awesome place without our buddy hunting them down in 3-5 minutes. It would give a raid more time to do all of the administrative things post-Minotaur kill, like badges/motes/etc. and still allow for time to run through the zone grinding out mobs. I am very thankful that I explored on the test server when I could kill the Minotaur with the test server tools, so I could get a better feel for the place. I don't know how much I would be doing in the zone had I not been able to see what all that I saw there. I love the zone. I go in there on my lunch break and stealth around and play keep-a-way with the Minotaur. It is its own mini-game for me. I hope that more people will come in and see how awesome it is. We need some help though to get people in, and keep them there beyond the badges.

I'll be out of town for the next week, so hopefully Betty can bump into what we saw. GL

Went in tonight with drastically different results. Same two as before, with a 3rd, and couldn't damage him at all. We had been able to slowly work the health down with two, but the addition of a third put it out of reach for us with what we know worked the day before. I apologize for not getting any popup testing in, but for whatever reason we couldn't scratch the Minotaur at all tonight.

I assumed it was at 50/25%, but obviously that wasn't the case. We had it pop up multiple times during the fight, so I will try to get something for you. We are going back in tonight.

What do you need from me that would help you the most?

Went back in last night to test again. We saw the popup at 75% when we went to the arena. we saw it again at 50% and 25% as well. At one point we let the health go back over one of those percentages and got the popup again. It was a little distracting asking us if we wanted to go to the arena when we were already there, but we just clicked through it and kept going. We were able to take it down again. We tried other power sets/classes, and got stomped. We have ideas on other things to try against the Minotaur and will test them as possible. We explored the maze a bit, got hopelessly lost, but it was fun looking around.

On Torch each Saturday night we do the 'Saturday Night Synapse' raid. Multiple raids doing Synapse each week, and the overflow leagues (usually 2) all converge in Skyway City to assist when the leagues all hit the Babbage mission around the same time. Roughly 4-5 leagues in Skyway with 18-28 Babbages. It is fun, extremely chaotic, and with some very real lag which is part of the charm. Chaos abounds with almost 200 players. That is what SNS is for those who didn't know. @Herah, aka Tots, is who ran it with me last night. Like @Spaghetti Betty they are very humble, and a helluva player. There are more than enough of us out there that miss having to think and plan for an encounter, figuring out what works and what doesn't. Thank you again @Cobalt Arachne, and keep 'em coming.

I second that, @Spaghetti Betty is incredible. I went in two days ago solo on my 'indestructible' granite tank and did fine with the mobs, but once the Minotaur got to me that HP reducing attack ate me up. At one point I had a max HP of 349, and another time 1 HP. I was the only person in zone, so it kept coming for me and found me within 2-5 min each time. It would stand over me as I lay dead, occasionally popping Axe Cyclone, I guess waiting on me to pop a rez. Using burnout and Barrier I found the defense percentage to keep it from smashing you over and over. Went in again last night with a friend to see what we could learn. I initially used the same granite tank, and they had a brute. They killed the Minotaur with the QA power when we first met it, so we could explore some. An hour later we fought it again, using burnout and Barrier to keep defense up high enough, and killed it, albeit 'cheating'. An hour after that we fought it straight up with the brute and I swapped to a controller, and we were able to beat it without using burnout. I don't want to give away too much and spoil the encounter, but there are multiple ways to beat it. Neither of us was on a *meta* build. We both play a lot though, and understand the characters we used and why we use them. I wanted to bring in a Kin defender to check for 'to hit' on the scaled mobs but it would have been slaughtered with just two of us, damn aggro cap. It wasn't a short fight, at all. The tornadoes I didn't even really see while on the granite tank, but I certainly felt them on the controller. It was a fun fight, and scaling of the Minotaur on a low population server will be very much welcomed. I'm certain that this will be the case down the line for some servers, as there may only ever be a few in here at certain times. We were the only two in the zone for several hours last night. It would have been impossible if it wasn't scaled. We explored the violet/orange zones in the place after you beat the Minotaur (through the white vortex). Orange was my favorite simply because of the mob composition. We thought it was more difficult than the violet. We never found the motes, but we plan on going back with a larger group soon. We had a really good time, and I see us using it in the future a good bit. The XP/inf was great, the mobs are interesting, and the zones/changes/etc. are fun. At the very least it gives an option to go to at 50 with a group to grind some vet levels or to get shards that isn't DA or running through Cim over and over. Very thankful for the TP to a buddy feature. I appreciate that someone wants there to be actual roles again in the game. It is going to require thought and planning as what to bring, and how to attack it. We picked what classes/roles we brought for a reason. You're not going to beat this unless you utilize multiple roles if you have a smaller group. I'm sure it can be zerged with a large group/raid. You need buffs/debuffs/control/dmg/tank, and I am happy that this is back in some shape/form/fashion again in the game. Facerolling through +4/8 isn't exactly exciting. I thought it was very well done., and it is obvious the amount of work that went into it. Thank you very much @Cobalt Arachne !

I appreciate the information. Basically don't build for what you have in the past, swap to new targets. Trying to hit max HP will make for an interesting build. I would assume that an offensive armor set is the mark for tanker/brute/scrapper, with the caveat of hitting as high of HP as possible. That gives me a good starting point, so I appreciate the information.

For reference, this thread was brought up on a different thread in the Tanker section Thank you again @Projector for this thread, as you are putting light on something that needs it IMO. I am interested in the builds that are being using for this content, and more so the design concepts of the builds. I've been wearing out the test server lately. My focus was originally on just a tanker build, but I have moved to all types of ATs and builds. Being able to use the incarnates for defense/resistance/status/etc. opens up a whole new game that is not accessible in general play. I have dove down the wormhole of max damage and I have started by looking at the pylon threads for builds, as they are the best burst damage builds that I have seen. My question is can they be translated to something usable in starred content, i.e. can you move with it and be effective, where is it effective from (ranged/melee), can the endurance hold out, etc.? I think at least some of them can, and it is what I have been working on lately. @Spaghetti Betty put out a build in the Tanker forum a few months back that got me started on this journey. Its not my build, so I don't like bringing up others builds without asking if it is ok, but Betty posted it on the Tanker forum and has some videos of that build in action, so I believe it will be all right to point it out. It was a eye opener on how we could make tankers do more damage while still being able to tank. I ran that build up and have used it to do all kinds of things in the game. So thank you @Spaghetti Betty. @Projector I have read what you have said on Ice/Cold and how effective it is in starred content. I would assume that others could fill some of those roles, but to what degree of effectiveness I guess is the issue. For example, I have a dark/dark controller that can floor to-hit in most content, but is it enough to slow down 4 starred content? It is only filling one role really, with some mitigation for other things such as fear, where the Ice/Cold does more. Have you been looking at any other ATs/power choices, and if so, have you had any luck? What have you found to get the best 'bang for your buck' as far as debuffs and buffs go? For tankers, I know Rad works well for most starred content. I use another one of Betty's builds, a Rad/Fire, to tank whatever is available. For a lot of content, like Hamidon, I swap the Alpha incarnate from Musculature to Spiritual Core, for the healing/recharge which puts the Regen Debuff resistance at roughly 90% w/o external buffs. It lowers the damage output through procs not proc'ing as much. That brings me to my question; at what point have you seen where a trade-off like that is warranted for this content, i.e. regen protection vs. damage? What have you seen in that content that works for the tankers?

@Projector, no, thank you for shedding light where there was none. I haven't seen anything anywhere about the tankers' role in * content until your post, which led to your videos. It is a subject that is mostly unknown to the player base, and not easy to break into alone. Content like that will open it up to people who are interested but don't know where to get started. I feel bad that I have semi-hijacked this thread, so I want to reference this post under your guide and pick back up over there. I'd love to pick your brain about some ideas, and see what you think. I have gone down some rabbit holes lately, and would love to see where it tracks with what you are seeing. @Spaghetti Betty Please come over to that thread in the Guide section and share some of your thoughts on that content, and strategies to attack it. I think the world of your builds, and have used two of them quite a bit. I appreciate you putting them out there and your insights into the game. I have done some fun stuff with your builds, and would love to discuss some of the ideas and testing I have done. Thank you both for speaking up and growing the game. People are listening, even if it doesn't always seem like they are.

Well, it reminds me of an old song, "Locomotive Breath" by Jethro Tull. And the train — it won't stop going No way to slow down Who knows where it will end up? It is what it is though, and it is here.

I don't now how well or how much it will catch on. It isn't something you can do in a PUG, there isn't any way to really practice the mechanics, and it takes a real commitment to even look at doing it. That will eliminate a lot of folk right out of the gate. Its there though, and it certainly has my attention. I am trying to work through the information available so I can start doing more and more of it. I've been testing all kinds of builds of multiple ATs on the test server to see what works and what doesn't. It requires finding the right bunch of folk though, and I haven't found that yet. I figure it will eventually work itself out through.

edit - I saw your reply while I was typing this out. I am going to put this out there anyway, as it goes down a path about procs that I think needs addressing. For lack of a better term, 'Winter is coming'. The procs are in the attacks with the longer recharges. Chop and Gash don't proc very well because of the lower recharge time, so they are the place to put your sets that you want the bonuses from. The Superior Might of the Tanker - Chance for Res proc I have in Chop (listed as six procs per minute in MIDS) is not going to proc at 90%. Typically it takes a few swings to get it going. So this is the point I say 'Yes, they work" in the other attacks, but you remain skeptical. My suggestion is to take this build, or any build you are interested in or question, to the test server and play with it a little bit. MIDS makes it easy to copy the build, plus you can export the build's IOs and import them into the Test/Brainstorm server, which saves a lot of time. (File --> Export --> Export build to Beta server (Menu)). Regarding procs; I guess this is as good of a place to bring all of this up as any. I am going to preface this next part by saying there will always be a place for tanks of multiple types in CoH. Anyone can choose to play the way they have always played, and there will be a role for that. Anyone can build a tank and do most of the content without much fuss, and there will always be a debate about which is bigger/faster/stronger/better/etc. like it has been since the beginning. There is nothing wrong with any of that. With that said, there are parts of the game that are changing for better or worse, i.e. advanced/hard mode, and unless you adapt you will be left behind, if that is what you are looking to do. There is an absolutely incredible post by @Projector that sadly got diddly squat for replies or responses. Thank you very much @Projector for putting that out there. This is by far the best information on Hard Mode/Advanced Mode/whatever you want to call it that I have seen so far pertaining to a tank in this content. After watching the video there is no way a 'normal' build will ever work in that content. I have run enough 1 star stuff to realize that it is going to take a different approach and either adapt or die. Spaghetti Betty has quietly brought it up multiple times about how some no longer believe that a tank is necessary because as things are right now, the damage output is not meeting the standard required for this content. Bluntly, and this is going to REALLY hurt some of you to hear but it needs said. In order to succeed in this mode it appears that very high damage has to be done by all parties, defense is going to be handled by incarnates, and you as the tanker will have to be able to 'quarterback' the encounter. 'Quarterback' means your positioning, the mob positioning, direction of movement, watching out for teammates positioning and adjusting all of it on the fly. You are not going to be able to do this content in just any build. Your role of the past doesn't work anymore for the most part. Good tanks have always 'quarterbacked' encounters, so that will not change for some. This is a tough pill for some to swallow. I have seen people get really angry about hard mode and what it will require. To be honest it reminds me of some of how it used to be in the beginning of the game when you had to have tanks of a certain kind to do certain things. There was a reason you saw a lot of granite and invuln tanks in the beginning. Now it is damage plus a lot more, and that brings me back around to where I was going. We need higher damage to keep up, and procs is the only way we can realistically do it. This build I posted is not a build for advanced/hard mode, but you are going to start seeing more and more very proc heavy builds coming I believe. If you want to really dig into very high damage output go crawl down the pylon times wormhole and look at how they are getting their damage. These builds are super proc heavy for all ATs. Most of these are 'not sustainable' for regular content because they do not offer any resistance/defense/status protection/etc. What happens though when you take one of those 'non sustainable' builds and provide resistance/defense/status protection/etc. via incarnates through a team and have them rotated to stay up all of the time? I think you will see more and more of this over the next few years, as they are going to keep putting out harder and harder content. @Projector made a comment in that video that should grab everyone's attention; Four star Omega K'ong has more HP than Hamidon does. I haven't verified that myself, but that should put into perspective what level of commitment is required to beat this content. Winter is truly coming, if it isn't here already, and if you want in on this content radical changes must be made.

I've been running this combo, and it is a lot of fun. Great mitigation through KD, a lot of Force Feedback procs, and is very versatile. I used @Spaghetti Betty's Air Fryer build and tweaked it for Battle Axe. I love how they build, and am in agreement on getting full recharge protection, or as close to it as possible with sacrifices. There is nothing worse IMO than building for perma-*, relying on that, and having it trashed by mobs. I have used their Air Fryer build to do most things in game, and it is the best Hami tank that I have, by far, when certain incarnates are picked. This is nothing but a rework of the secondary powers. The build design, construction and vision are all @Spaghetti Betty. This has the best debuff resistances of any build I have. 86.5% Debuff resistance to Endurance, Recovery, and ToHit without outside buffs (cap is 95%) 95.41% Debuff Resistance to Recharge Time without outside buffs (cap is 100%) 89.06% Debuff to Regeneration (Using the Spiritual Core Paragon Alpha Slot and keeping the Radiation Therapy buff up) without outside buffs (cap is 95%) -78.71% when using the Musculature Alpha and keeping the Radiation Therapy buff up I tweaked a few things, Meltdown for example, as I am currently testing adding +4 KB protection with the knockdown changes, because of how those changes are adversely affecting resistance builds. I am very thankful people like @Spaghetti Betty put their builds out there, as you can never learn enough for looking at what others have done. Thank you SB, you absolutely rock. Tanker - Modified Spaghetti Betty Air Fryer for Battle Axe (Radiation Armor - Battle Axe).mbd