Earth Dragon

This was part of the reason I felt they could bring SG badges back that could give a push to do a varied amount of SFs/TFs again. The individual does it once, gets the badge and it's done. Just go back to farming the same few. But if the group has to be present for 10-20 runs, that gives just a little incentive to spread it out a little bit. While the initial explosion on a release like that will be the biggest, and many will go back to just spamming the same few, there will always be new bases started and some folks would like to get their "bumper stickers" and start those teams themselves.

If you don't know anyone, just read the first page of these comments Now you do

Rudra, cherry picking and then saying "I don't know why you said that" doesn't do any good because you DO know why I said that because the context is there. It's clear you just like to argue as your comment more muddies the nuance then adds to it so you can disagree

Grand Theft Auto wouldn't exist if this was completely the case. Salamanders would be the only chapter of Space Marines anyone would play in 40k if it was completely the case. I'll agree unconditionally that people have a derangement to their psyche that as long as something is called "good" all evidence to the contrary is thrown out the window (which we've seen evil people exploit that all throughout time, flocking to whatever is considered good to go undetected). That's what's caused fights during TTRPGs for decades when players or GMs protest that the chaotic "good" character shouldn't be doing "rapey" things. So the fact that Villain side does not feel "evil" or perhaps even "chaotic" or "selfish" enough (as villains aren't universally evil anyway, nor do they choose to be painted as villains even) to many people says there is something lacking from the experience for them in the opposite direction. Allow heroes to run around the zones without Villains being able to attack them? You go FURTHER in that direction. Keep in mind, there is nothing stopping you from creating a hero instance of all the villain zones and a villain instance of all the hero zones if you want to explore making more content for both sides. Just that mixing has a much different impact on both side's potential immersion. If they had their own instance, the contacts and/or missions offered by those contacts could change anyway if you went that route. And if you only advertise everything as "City of Heroes" it's not that people won't load up that game and see that you can play as a villain. It's that whatever player out there is looking for the change pace and to play a game that allows them to be the villain when most games have you as a hero, they'll never look into playing the game. Likely not a huge factor, but a small amount is still more then 0, no matter how small.

Redside is the best side. That's how I felt when it launched and that's what I still feel. The only things I would have done differently are more due to hindsight or disagreeing with things the Beta testers pushed (like getting rid of Ice Brutes). The worst Strike Forces are comparable to the better Task Forces. The first ones you do are some of the best versus some of the worst. At least for those players that are doing them organically a they are leveling and not just 30 min blitzing through them at level 50. But big contributor is, I feel clearly, that even logging in it's now all City of Heroes. That's what is in your face all the time. That's been all the press. That is much of the streaming content. Regardless of preferences, if that is all you are seeing, that's what you'll come in and play. Not positive it will make a huge difference, but it is hiding it's existence. I also don't feel like many of the people who like Villain side care that they are on the lesser populated side. So for many of those folks, you wouldn't actually be improving anything by letting heroes freely travel all over the place. It would likely just drive some of the handful that are there anyway away. At some stage you have to consider EVERY layer of the new player experience. Someone playing this game for the first time after universal travel could easily become confused by the shifting tones of what they are doing. And they would be dragged around by vet players who are just recruiting teams to get whatever reward from whatever activity they were doing and not present a very cohesive experience. They already tried to make Mercy more like Atlas, but talking to the few people I came back with, we all like the original Mercy better (some of us roughly remember the change from before but forgot about it since it was less impressionable). Spamming travel powers on the new players and changing the transports into a RL coordination nightmare to ease access to all the zones has already really impacted that feel of your character battling for position and progressing through the zones in a dangerous manner. I'm sure the blueside players will disagree, but guess what: they are blueside players and aren't making the switch.

Again, you impose something that isn't particularly the case as a dishonest way to say "this can never happen". We already know that you don't have to give up "inf" for prestige as that has always been the case for early levels, and it went from a complete loss at higher levels to only a 50% loss after a little time. If you can program a sliding scale that starts at zero, and you can change that scale to slide to a different final point, you can "slide" it to stay at zero.

When you say this, it sounds like you would have to pay for your component again if ever turned back on. Turning it on does not have to be associated with it paying for your components. If you can turn something 0, you can keep it at 0, while the thing 0 references is accumulating again

Let's not forget what the words "influence" and "infamy" actually mean. Attaching Prestige gain to those was reasonably natural as that was the group's indicated "influence" on the world, but unlike those, also didn't go away in the same way. It could be referenced from the SG window. But if Prestige is a theoretical manifestation of a group's "influence", then getting it the same time you get influence was an easy place to attach it. The "foul taste" was mostly due to the decision that was made to either "Influence the world" for the group OR for yourself. The only thing that thematically makes sense about that was the individual may not be doing things in the name of that group every time like any comic character just doing their own thing for the afternoon, but it doesn't ever need to be separated or impact each other as they did before If the point is to make things fun, then that's the point of me asking. Badges are fun on the individual and they were fun earning as a group. We know the badges can be done. A never ending tally instead, in addition, would also be fun. I'd take either or both, but the badges are an easy add and lots of people enjoy them, and there doesn't need to be any reason to ask other then they are fun. The only reason I would push back about some of what you are pondering in this thought is you are trying to make something from the ground up and massively change something, where as turning Prestige back on and dropping the infamy penalty and re-instituting badges can be done easily as those things are already there (assuming the person who modified them didn't do it in a way where they took a virtual sledgehammer to the code). It would be better to explore adding getting a point of Prestige for every minute you spent in Pocket D (as we know the game already calculates that as you leave) or whatever else someone could come up with after it was turned back on

More or less. Yes I think the only way to calculate that you took out xxxx Arachnos is through a Badge, otherwise a tab with a never ending tally would be interesting to look at. And the structure was already there for similar badges, so we know it can be turned on. We also know that the base items clearly don't have to be attached to them. Prestige, as others have aided to illustrate, was more then "just" currency before, and turning it back on would be without it being a currency. We also know that you can adjust how much it affects your influence/infamy because it was changed for 100% impact to 50% while the game was live. So it could be further reduced seemingly easily.

I apologize. I'm not going to get into the semantics around the word "items" or how I had stated "components" earlier, but will only state that they caused confusion. The OP has been modified, as has the areas I was drawn to when I re-read, and I noted that the original contents of the modified section are contained above for anyone curious

No the first post did not call for that. And that's where this discussion got de-railed and you have a bunch of people give "likes" and responses in a way that show they didn't even read the initial post. No one suggestion to have items locked behind badges, instead it was stated to have that left alone. So when the comments aren't even comments addressing the OP but some fiction fabricated by the forum militia springing to action against any perceived threat whether real or not, it eliminates any chance for an honest discussion.

The teleporters used to unlocked by your group doing a SF/TF so many times. The idea is to bring that tab back, but give you "marker" that it was done so many times without any that gave you base barring those base items. Prestige, if turned back on, is just a general metric of how much impact that character and that group had on the area. Any talk, at least here, has all been about Prestige only interacting with the badges to highlight that interaction and not paying rent again or for items either If the devs ever added a second area to the game, (like the Rikti attack outside of Boise, Idaho, or off the coast of Brazil or whatever and you travel over there and it has 2 hero zones, 2 Villain zones and a co-op zone) and that area could calculate prestige earned there separate from prestige earned in the core area. There are interesting things that could be done if it was available again that didn't do much other then showcase an interesting metric.

Except they already gave having a small SG a strong pull and huge advantage since the storage is always the same size and you don't have to build to it so you have "no place to stand" That is where YOU fail and continue to fail to come up with anything truly credible as to why you can't have a badge in game again that say your group gained xxxxxx prestige or create something new where you eliminated 100k Arachnos troops. Posters are claiming you can't or aren't allowed to turn something back on and adjust something already there in the code that would be rather simple all because some players might not be able to get XXXXXX, even though it doesn't affect how they perform in game. People with packs of friends who are coming back to the game would appreciate if something is available again, and all you can say is "What about the person who already has an easier time then you with his own personal storage"? The Super Groups had functionality that allowed them to build something up. All that experience has been edited from the game and you're raising a fuss because asking for them to add bumpster stickers that as far as I may be able to tell only the group themselves would be able to see. You guys aren't serious.

No it doesn't, and more shows that a few of you came in here with ammo already loaded. If someone isn't going to PvP, they know they aren't going to bother with PvP badges and everyone excepts that If someone doesn't care to flip to Villain or Hero side and get those badges, and don't and everyone excepts that If someone doesn't care to look at XXXXX badge tab and see what they still have to do because they aren't trying to get that, they don't and everyone excepts that as their choice The thought that someone who decides to go at the game in an SG with 3 people, refuses to reach out past that, refuses to allows petitioners in who are pondering, and just stays in their corner doing whatever it is they do is now the (said with a deep reverberating voice) "!!PLATINUM STANDARD OF PLAYER PREFERENCE THAT NOW ALL RECOGNIZED ACCOMPLISHMENTS HAVE TO BE BEHOLDEN TO!!" is a non-sense blockade any way you look at it. Some badges could be out of their reach if there was one for each damage type dealt, for example, and they didn't have that damage type........that's the way it goes. It is no different from the individual character who doesn't heal not getting a healing badge or the player who doesn't ever step into a PvP zone and so never gets those badges. If you want to try to get the "Everfrost" SG Badge, you 3 folks can make a Water Blast, Ice Melee, and Demon Summoning Trio and have fun, with an interesting benchmark. As someone who had over 10mil Prestige with a single character, but who didn't play for 8 years (I don't even think it was three years that I had a subscription going, and less then half of that time was spent on my main, I have a demanding job the entire time, and I HATE farming so wasn't doing it) I know you can do quite a bit by just playing the game. But I also know that there might be badges/accolades in an SG (if they exist again and are expanded) that don't suit my fancy. I don't think I've got past CL 10 with a Psychic character. If there is a "Bunch of Psychos" badge that wants us to do XXXX psychic damage, I'll likely shrug my shoulders and move on. If I notice somehow we are halfway there........well.......guess I'll give it a shot! To the troll that pretends we should all get notepads out and do tally marks for how many times we do a particular TF/SF, and scroll back through our damage logs to add up the amount of lethal dealt and received, and any other such ludicrous thing that you fully well know the game can keep track of and give us a nifty title for the SG because we did whatever the badge confirms we did a lot of........THAT is what prevents us from doing certain long term goals. We despise the Circle of Thorns. Now we look at the Super Group Badge tab and see we took out 100,000+ and got the "Hedge Trimmer" Badge to confirm that role-played rivalry. Folks, this ability is already in the game. We know it is already there. The game encouraging you to do every TF/SF 20 times versus just farming the same one 200 times as a bunch because that's the one "Goofy Goober Gamer" proved was the fastest and most profitable and that's the only one others want to has solid benefits to diversify the content sought after for those who have been around a while and those who will come later. And what does Prestige do against all this? With no rent, no component costs and presumably no influence penalty anymore, it's just a "to infinity and beyond" metric. There may be a cap in the game code, and if someone finds it.......let them. It's the thing that you are likely still earning and accumulating even past the group getting all the badges, if it happens, and can come with fun moments for individual toons that break a million! You throw a party! However that individual decided to go about the game, whether it was doing missions, TFs/SFs, solo, in parties, doesn't matter. They got there. They spread the name of your group across the server to whoever they did. It was a milestone for them that was accomplished for the group. Our group was excited to build again what little we could with the official go ahead given on the servers. What we thought was going to be there was drastically changed. We're looking to get what we know can easily be turned back on. The caustic attitude this was met with immediately and the intentional misrepresentation by a handful is honestly shocking, but I suppose should have been expected, as that's the way the internet goes.

And that's just being petty. If I make a non-healer, I don't kick and scream that I am not going to get badges for healing others. I don't take the medicine pool to achieve those badges, and exceptionally few do. It's something most don't strive for, and don't care for. The entire TF/SF system and Trials disrupts people "soloing everything with their Stalker". "Everyone needs to be able to achieve everything on their own terms no matter what" has never been apart of this game, nor any MMO, and its a poor assertion that having SG badges would come with the caveat that a solo member be able to achieve them in whatever hyper-restrictive timeline one would like to staple on. You built your own base and got 14 racks of salvage storage all to yourself. The perks are already there to do it by yourself. Do we need to demand the devs adjust base limits to match the amount of accounts in the SG so everything is "fair"? Of course not. A handful of no impact to gameplay milestones that are long term goals for SGs with 10+ members is not an unreasonable ask by any metric, particularly when compared to those aforementioned benefits that personal hideout goers are already granted

I understand the old objections, which is why i never said that base items should cost Prestige again. Those not wanting to deal with others BS can start their own personal SG with their own base and carry on. But it wasn't just a "currency" It was a number that also accumulated indefinitely as a gauge of theoretical impact that your group had. Unlike Influence, it just went up indefinitely and had this interesting show of your contribution. Not to the SG in this sense I mean, but to the cause of Villainy or Heroism. You can have it automatically on at this stage and have no monetary penalty if that is where we are at. I can't think of a reason not to do that, but maybe someone else can. I may also be misstating the "badge" thing. I have vivid memories of there being a tab, like a badge tab, where you could see progress towards base unlocks. I thought it left a permanent stamp/badge. Something members of the group could see. It's those "badges" is how I thought you got the teleporter beacon and the like. It's been awhile. But having the tab full again of goals that just show progress does not seem the egregious ask some of you are making it out to be. And why couldn't one, two, or even 8 be for how much prestige the group accumulated if the badge is just a group badge and nothing more? This is where the thread just keeps losing me. Way too many roadblocks and "this can't be allowed" that don't seem to be based on anything that would impact players that didn't care to do it, no different from those that don't care to do a Hami raid.

I just hope if a dev is reading this thread at all they see how many "no" posts are talking about stuff that wasn't even being asked for

That's not what is being asked for, and I have no idea why some of you choose to be so blatantly disingenuous. I neither asked for "bases to require prestige" in this thread, nor did I say people have asked for it in General. Gaining Prestige for your group and gaining badges for your group has been talked about. Right now, a group who wants to be in a "Super Group" and not just have "The name of my base" doesn't have anything to work for, and just cut themselves out of massive amounts of personal storage, or a way to easily transfer things amongst their characters and their characters alone. Why do I bring this up? Before we did. There was something that was lost that doesn't need to be. The framework is still there. What harm would it do to you or anyone one else who wants to keep their artistic expression to turn Prestige back on and keep base component costs at 0? The answer that you are all dodging is "Nothing." We can have both. You can have your individual lair/storage/transfer system, and groups who want to feel like they are spreading their influence with a number and hopefully interesting objectives can have that to. Does that Prestige need to do anything? Not at the moment. Or ever at all if there is no sweet spot that can be found. Let people build it up if they want as the players are coming back. I've got 5 back myself with 3 more on the way. Turn off the infamy penalty altogether, or drop it to 20% to be on the safe side if you have to in case there is some cryptic reason it would make a difference. But if people can start building it now, it leaves the door wide open for something creative to come later. For many of us players, that prestige number, even by itself, was just an accumulation of our total impact on the region this game showcases. How many Clockwork we crushed for Positron or how Sky Raider Bases we blew up off of Sharkhead Isle. And since I feel this may have to be stated one more time: I am not asking, nor have I asked, nor have I claimed anyone else has asked, for base functionality to go back to costing Prestige

Comment that means nothing. Please state some actual words

No one suggested it needed to stay that way. There are other adjustments that can be made. Just turn on SG mode and it's less harsh or not at all. Also, let's keep in mind that the OP was about badges and accolades. The 'wondering guards" was just an example of something that could be offered through the prestige system IF turned back on. Turn it back on for now, then decide what you can do with it. But with the influx of players, better to turn it on now in some capacity that way people are already building something while the devs look to do something more with it. Super Group progression has it's place to exist, and I see it asked for 10 times a day on the Everlasting general chat

Prestige is a good metric for some things because you get it from however you want to play the game. It is a general marker of how much impact those associated with that base have had on the landscape. Unlike Influence, how much you've gained never goes down. And unlike experience, how much you can gain isn't limited. It provides for progression, long term goals, and allows the "group" to accomplish these things, not just the individual. Why not just start every character at level 50? Why not just give everyone unlimited access to every Enhancement, Recipe, and anything else they want on their character during creation? Why not just click on the TF contact and get the rewards without playing it if you don't want to bother, have too small of a group, or don't have the time? Why is group accomplishment something that has to be burned at the stake?

This analogy falls way flat. We showed back up to the playground, but much of the old equipment is missing. We can see the parts lying there to put it back together, but only the official workers for the city who have the permits are allowed to touch it. While we "play on the swings", it'd be much appreciated if the city workers come by and use the parts that are already there and the space that is already available to throw up some of that old equipment that was taken down

Deleting the content of this post only due to it being more side bar then anything. My apologies

At no point did I say they should go back to restricting base building. Thank you for being the guy that jumps in early and pisses on the post without reading it. It's about giving the Super Group goals and accomplishments again. At this stage the Super Group got co-opted so that individuals could have a personal hideout at the sacrifice of any type of SG advancement at all. Those badges you mention are for the individual, not the SG.

I understand the "quick Fix" that was done for players to just have their own base with a depleted player base and to turn all requirements off to allow access to everything, but it would be great to have Prestige gain and Super Group badges back again. (and please forgive any incohesive formatting......it's late but I want to get this posted) This doesn't have to be the old system. It doesn't need to be attached to the base components. But turning SG mode on and gaining Prestige (not necessarily taking away from Infamy, but the 50% metric would still be acceptable) while allowing you to contribute to Group badges again would be great, give groups goals, and bring about a consolidation of the player base, allowing us to organize better!! And I mean put in plenty of badges. Ideas for badges could include: X Amount of TF/SFs completed X Amount of Merits collected X Amount of Prestige collected X Amount of items sold on the Market X Amount of items bought on the Market X Amount of Enemies Defeated - X Amount of Minions/Lts/Bosses Defeated - X Amount of Particular Group Defeated - X Amount of Heroes/ArchVillains Defeated X Amount of Y Damage Dealt X Amount of Y Damage Taken X Amount of Health Healed X Amount of Levels gained X Amount of Pets lost X Amount of Radio/Newspaper Missions completed (This was a paragraph that caused confusion and de-railed much of the thread. It has been quoted on page 4 by Rudra to fairly be cataloged. It was an additional idea that was presented with this one. I pushed back against criticism due to the now bold statements. I apologize for my side of the confusion instead of addressing that expediently. As seen, there is plenty of people okay with Prestige just being there and not attached to the base, or that the badges come back without being an item requirement again, but this was the section that was being blasted, which I can understand as it was presented and easily interpreted as a conflict) To be clear: I'm not asking for everyone to lose their bases for solo play and make them pay for everything again and what not if they want to keep them. I'm just asking that groups that wish to consolidate to get goals and perks they can work for once again which can help build teams to do events, in particular on redside. And Prestige was just a cool metric as to how much mileage your group had and how much "damage" you had dealt to the gangs and organizations of Paragon City and the Rogue Isles.