Stoked
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Posts posted by Stoked
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... and ... crickets
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5 minutes ago, Marbing said:
Do you have anything more than anecdotal evidence to support this claim? If so please provide so we can all parse through that data together.
As I said earlier, several of us will be working over the next couple days/nights to get real data about farming event content like SBB. Again, the point here is that AE is being thrown under the bus because it has the best rewards/hr of anything else in game. If our data, combined with that of Bionic Flea and others does nothing more than prove AE does marginally better or worse than "regular" content we will have already proven the narrative false. Anyone with 1/2 brain already understands that it isn't AE that is the real target for the illicit farming. Only marketeering on AH can give you enough of a return to entice bad actors to do what they do. Making AE the target is in itself what's so ridiculous because you can't touch the returns of marketeering by sitting in any farm AE or otherwise.
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Just now, Frostbiter said:
I propose we just lock it and place a moratorium on any kind of discussion thread about AE Farming instead. They all end up in the graveyard anyway because everybody has too strong of feelings about it.
OR .. we could allow people to share opinions, share data and properly close the topic as it should be once all the users see the lie that is being sold about AE.
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29 minutes ago, arcane said:
Now, on the other hand, comparing claims that AE is top tier rewards to Bigfoot… that’s some seriously disingenuous stuff.
Let's not change the narrative here. The claim was that AE offered the best rewards in game. Not simply top tier rewards. For the inevitable confusion among some of you, that was intended to mean that you can get better rewards per hour in terms of influence than you can get anywhere else in game so naturally, AE farming must go. Until I see an actual mountain of empirical evidence that someone marketeering in the AH does worse than AE farming, I'm going to call you all out for supporting a bunch of BS.
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6 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:
If you're suggesting that AE farmers are not that bright because they just picked a place to farm at random with no clue how good the rewards are, that seems kind of rude.
That's not what I'm suggesting at all. I farm daily in AE because I don't have to team. I can go at whatever pace I want, stop when I want and continue when I want. I don't have to read some garbage story line written by an illiterate. If I see people asking for help with XP or inf ... I invite them, welcome them aboard and get on with it. My goal isn't to turn the market on its head or make out like a bandit. It's simply to try as many different builds as possible and enjoy the fireworks with a toon when I do run "regular" content. Any one or a combination of those reasons may be why people run AE instead of joining teams. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with best rewards.
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44 minutes ago, arcane said:
A hypothesis not yet scientifically proven but supported by mountains of anecdotal evidence is not exactly a “lie”. Calling people liars for having not provided a dissertation’s worth of supporting data on an internet forum is not super helpful. People are allowed to state things that are obvious and self-evident to them without having to make those statements hold up in court.
First of all, "mountains of anecdotal evidence" doesn't constitute anything but fiction. Had that evidence been empirical, I might agree at least in premise. Over the next couple days/nights we'll work to give the user base a true accounting for where the best rewards in game are. If you're smart, you'll place a bet on anything that has to do with reselling on the market. AE farming MIGHT give a marginally better inf/time ratio than PI radios for instance. But when we speed run LSRF or do back to back SBB's and start selling drops this BS narrative you've chosen to support will quickly come apart.
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While various people run tests and collect data, I think it's important to note that absolutely no testing was appare tly done before the claims made about AE being the best reward machine in game. Just another example of a lie perpetuated by a select few to support the narrative.
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12 minutes ago, Ukase said:
How would you like me to proceed? Do I count drops? I got a purple on one of those three runs, lol.
Absolutely you would count drops that could be sold. Thank you for your effort to reveal the truth about "grinding" vs farming.
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12 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:
Replying to @Stoked
Nope. That was a farming brute, made for farming fires in AE and to PL characters on my other account. Is that wrong? I don't remember how I leveled him. He may have self PL'd by doing farms on lower settings and ramping up as I got more powers and slots. I think the only non-AE stuff he's done is getting accolades and these recent tests. Maybe some other stuff, but not much.
I never claimed to be the best farmer, and that 1 mill inf/minute was just one run of one asteroid. I might get a little better if I kept running the same one over and over, but I doubt I'll get into the 2.5 mill/min others say they do. What's your Inf per minute?
I think his build was about 300 mill, but I keep a lot of stuff I use in stock. It took me about an afternoon to have him up and running from level 1 to fully slotted.
I have no idea how many people use full sets, generics, SOs or something in between. That would be interesting to know.
Oooooh . . . wait . . . that was all sarcasm in your post. You didn't use a little smiley face! Never mind, then. 😜
PS - Everything I said in this post is true and accurate.
Actually, it wasn't all sarcastic, just the bit about running story arcs and TF's only once. I'm truly thankful for your effort and data. I stopped assuming everyone was reasonable and here solely to enjoy playing (however you might play) a long time ago.
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On 8/7/2022 at 9:49 AM, Bionic_Flea said:
This was all run by the same player (me) on the same character (a rad/fire brute made for farming) and all at level 54. Lets review:
AE Meteor Map - 1 million/min
Market Crash 1st - 610k/min
Kill Most ITF - 337k/min
Council Radio - 250k/min
Just curious ... why would you have a rad/fire Brute built for farming if that's not an "approved" use of the game? Also, are we all to believe that you leveled said Brute going through the normal story arcs and TF's only once right? In either case thank you for going through the motions and getting some data in place. I doubt most people fit into the category of best farmers making 1M/minute.
One other consideration, building a farmer of any kind is extremely expensive and time consuming. Yes, you only have to do that once and then you can farm forever sure but how many people in the game actually go beyond basic IO's once they hit 50? Maybe we can get some metrics on the percent of people that use a full load of IO sets on their toons? For sure, the only way you're doing the kind of farming you're talking about is with a fully built toon that possibly took weeks to figure out and fine tune and about 500M - 1B or more in influence.
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3 minutes ago, Coyotedancer said:
I don't get it. I really don't. One of the real strengths of the City has always been its variety of playstyles. Solo, full team, farm, roleplay, read all the things Loregasm... It all works. Or at least it always has. Apparently that annoys some people.
This same sentiment has been shared over and over by a great number of people in various threads. Most of those posts are hidden now. Rest assured, we the undesirables have copied them for safe keeping to be shared everywhere else. Your comments are well put sir / ma'am, thank you for sharing.
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I've read through this thread a few times now and honestly think that changes generally speaking, should be considered for far longer than is currently being done before integration. I've learned a bit of the history of why certain things were done like adding emp merits to AE because of population problems. Apparently no one cared to look down the road for what the inevitable impact was going to be long term. Or perhaps, maybe that was considered and they didn't care about having to change it back. Either way I agree, the decision to do it in the first place was a bad one.
My point is simply that more care should be taken about making ANY changes, especially those that impact major pieces of content like AE and trials. I would recommend that a great way to get that extra consideration would be to ping your user base, see what they think and incorporate that knowledge. The main issue with that however is that you've already made the decision in a vacuum and only rely on the focused feedback threads for confirmation that everything is great. It's not all great. Some significant problems have been introduced by these decisions; some of them made long ago.
Interview players that are running the trials and AE maps for how things ACTUALLY work in game. Using stats from pylon tests or test server beta is not the same as real game, real population. A good example is the nerf on Titan weapons because in pylon tests, the DPS was too high. Seriously? When I'm on a team with blasters and enter a room full of mobs .. by the time I can swing a titan weapon and do ANY dps, the blasters have already nuked everything. How in the hell can you possibly say the dps is too high when it takes as long to swing a titan sword as it does to watch the countdown on a personal nuke timer. Complete insanity. You don't measure DPS as a single hit against a pylon when you consider a skill or buff change. Consider how that skill is actually played in game action.
Enough on that, sorry for the tangent - back to all things AE. There are a few related questions asked dozens of times I have yet to see well considered answers for. Why are Trials considered "normal" or "dev supported" content and AE is ... well ... something lesser? Why am I expected to join a team led by some egomaniac that has no time to explain what the story line is and how things should be done? Why is your definition of having fun in game the only way it's supposed to be done? These have all been asked by many members on these forums in relation to AE, emp merits, farming and so on. Not once in all the threads have I seen a response other than some 1/2 sarcastic comment or off-putting remark about why farmers suck.
Everybody in this game - EVERYONE - farms. You call it running a weekly, I call it hypocritical farming. You call it earning a badge or influence or whatever. Still farming. Why is your farming better than mine? Why is it accepted and AE isn't? By the way, if you don't like AE, don't do it. Just change the channel and quit whining about it. End of the day, mistakes were made in decisions about the game in a lot of areas. Do the people that have chosen HC as their place to go for fun a HUGE favor and stop changing existing config. PLEASE - just stop. Try focusing all that change attitude on costume parts or new content for lowbies or something like that. The existing population is used to playing a certain way whatever that might be. Please stop changing things. If someone doesn't like AE or trials or your costume editor, they can go to Rebirth or New Dawn or ThunderSPY.
I know this is super long and will close simply by saying that I really appreciate all the work everyone does on HC; player and dev both. I chose to stay on HC because it had the best population and mix of things to do. I never felt forced to play one way or another. Now however, the population is sagging, auction prices are climbing and apparently running trials with sociopaths is the only way to properly enjoy the game on Homecoming. Such a shame.
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On 7/24/2022 at 7:26 PM, The Caretaker said:
That would require buffing regen, and regen is already top tier.
Buffing regen or returning it to what it once was? Regen would be top tier if Instant Healing was once again made a toggle. Just one more example of a once awesome set that is now rarely seen used.
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7 hours ago, Unknown_User said:
Question, not sure if this was already asked or touched upon. Just a lot of pages to read through in regards to this topic. So to get a name that is freed up by this new policy. Do you have to create a new character from scratch or can you use the rename tool to get the name freed up by the naming policy?
I ask because there is one specific name I really, really, really want on Everlasting. I've been trying to contact the user for about a year now and no response. So I did create a character with the name and slapped a II at the end of it. So if the name is freed up by chance during the new naming policy. Can I just delete the II in the name of the character or do I have to create the character in order to get the name.
Thanks in advance.
Please, let me know what the name is and I'll make sure to keep it safe for you.
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4 hours ago, UltraAlt said:
Will this show that there really isn't all that much interest in PvP?
The fact that this discussion thread is alive is proof enough of that.
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5 hours ago, High_Beam said:
I respect you and your opinions and more often than not agree with your positions, but with regards to this change; excellent. I feel that there should be MORE DISTANCE between PvE and PvP, that the two should never meet or impact the other . . . EVER. You keep the two worlds separated then you don't have to deal with the damage or the impact. You make PvP changes to affect only PvP so they have their "balance" and nobody is OP or everybody is OP or burst damage this or that is king and the PvP people are happy cause they are "getting attention". Meanwhile in PvE you can focus on cool things like powers and zone revamps and new content.
Will this get me into a PvP zone? Nope, I find zero entertainment value in it, but that's me. The only enticement to me would be badges and I don't have the OCD that I did on live for this. But as I have always said, I do believe players should be able to PvP as long as they don't impact the majority of the player base (live or on HC).
Agreed 100% and I would take it one step further. Separate the two so that there is a PVP only instance. There is no difference between the marketing spam that used to infect the chat channels on LIVE and some twit in a PVP zone trying to entice people to die for 100 million influence all the time. Both are annoying and just get people to ignore chat or minimize, whatever your solution. If for sake of argument you make Excelsior a PVP-only instance then all the people there can choose to shift their toons for free to another instance if they want to. Going forward, only PVP maps are available on that instance.
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29 minutes ago, laudwic said:
Two suggestions from a non-PvPer:
1. Will the Insta 50s have any free Respecs? I can see them wanting to change their build, but, frankly, I would want the respecs just as an easy way to harvest IOs off of the character if I decide to stop using the character. Much better than having to buy a ton of unslotters.
2. If it isn't an large amount of work, a PvP setting that does not take enhancements into consideration. That will allow a faster ability to jump into PvP with less time investment and cost.
Frankly, I also see this as a convenient way to try out some powers on a level 50 in the PvP zone against PvE enemies for those who don't want to download the Beta (test) Server.
Two great ideas thank you for sharing. End of the day, why not just get rid of enhancements altogether? If they're so worried about data bloat creating a third set of enhancements just for PVP'rs, then get rid of them for everyone. While you're at it, get rid of the merits as well - ALL of them, every kind. You solve every problem related to game mechanics immediately including farming in any type of content. There will no longer be a reason to farm accept that people actually like it better than dev created content. 🙂
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3 hours ago, Troo said:
Why isn't this available for those who only want to do endgame content?
The only relevant question.
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8 minutes ago, skoryy said:
OK, prove it.
Prove what? The context here is time investment. If you solo the Dreck map at 54/8, it's going to take you about an hour or more depending on your DPS. That's after you've spent countless hours creating a build and earning enough influence or merits to make the build happen. An iTrial with a good group is about 20 minutes. You can get away with a much less "built" toon when you're part of a group. Based on that alone, AE farming Dreck is literally 3x more time intensive so I guess I was wrong, the time investment isn't at all the same. Thank you for making me prove it.
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13 hours ago, Luminara said:
Not thrilled, but I understand that motivation behind the change is the betterment of all players. So I'll live with it.
How exactly are you defining "betterment of all players" ? ALL players currently have the ability to take advantage of this. Noone is excluded in any way. However, by forcing people to use iTrials, you are immediately excluding those people that can't join when they run or simply don't enjoy that content. Insanity.
1 hour ago, skoryy said:I don't think the devs could've painted it clearer with this change: VLs weren't the problem. Speed farming AE for RMs defeated the purpose of RMs being a reward for time investment and keeping lower level content alive (WSTs), and that was the problem. They believe its an unfair advantage.
Personally, I'd like to see some numbers myself comparing VL farming to rest of the game content, but I can kinda see it.
There is no difference between running an iTrial 100 times or cycling through the Carnie or Dreck map 100 times to earn influence or XP or merits. The game isn't live and it's free to play so time investment is a misnomer. No one cares (least of all the devs) how long you're online playing.
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12 hours ago, TheZag said:
Emp merits should be used for incarnate abilities, not for farming in AE to convert into reward merits.
Why, because you say so? The devs created AE, allowed everyone to put 999 alts on an account, created the merit system and allowed merits as rewards for running AE missions. We aren't here by mistake or by chance. This was all planned from the start. Now we have a bunch of whiny iTrial homies that think their way of playing is somehow more acceptable or appropriate. Meanwhile you have a large percentage of the population that simply can't be online when iTrials are happening or just don't like doing them.
This nonsense about "dev approved, regular or normal content" messaging has to stop too. The devs created ALL of this so it's all approved and normal. If AE is causing some divide in the community because there is a percentage of people that don't like it, then they don't have to run it. Just stop whining about it. It's an equal opportunity feature. You can always change the channel so no use in any discourse about it at all.
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3 hours ago, Troo said:
500 Empyrean Merits does equal 5,000 Reward Merits and then 15,000 Converters worth ~1B.
500 Empyrean Merits also equals 10,000 Incarnate Threads. That's enough to simply unlock all the Incarnate abilities on ~40 level 50s without doing one Vet Level.
(someone might wanna check my math)
The math seems sound and the effort to detail this appreciated. My only question is ... so what? Who cares how many max'd out 50's you have? We're allowed 1000. Every person in game has an equal opportunity to do the same exact thing which means no one has an advantage. Isn't that exactly the point?
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One thing I'm having a tough time understanding is why is one kind of farming (TF's, iTrials) more acceptable and getting all the love versus AE farming? Once you've hit 50, there is nothing left but farming regardless of what content you happen to prefer. This is simple logic. You can't get any more levels and can only improve the existing powers and incarnates that you already have which cost a fortune.
Every decision that's been made about game mechanics has brought the community to this point. Adding enhancements, allowing for up to 1000 characters per account, availability of XP boosters, incarnates, etc. All of these things encourage making more than one character on more than one account so you can "afford" to pay for all your other alts. By continuing down this road all you accomplish is creating more problems for you to "solve" which of course means more drama over changed policies, back pedaling on previous attempts, etc. All of this is completely insane but after almost 20 years you people actually expect a different outcome. If you were really interested in solving the issue, you'd simply only allow a single character per account. You immediately take away the need and most everyone's willingness to farm because ... well ... there's no reason to. One last comment about farming - people that sit here in this forum and applaud the efforts of devs to nerf AE rewards and XP but then jump in game and start farming AE or any other content are nothing but a bunch of hypocrites. Just because you choose to run TF's or iTrials or race through TINPEX or ITF several times a day doesn't make what you're doing any different.
Lastly the economy in game is going to blow up. People will have to decide whether to pay a billion for a purple set or just say screw it and not join a 54/8 TF that's unsurvivable without IO sets. What good will it be to focus on great builds when you can't even afford to pay for the IO sets to make it happen? The logical conclusion is - you got it - more farming. I can't imagine any of this escapes those making the decisions. They well know the outcome already because these types of heavy-handed tactics have been used all along and consistently fail time after time.
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19 minutes ago, Peacemoon said:
Also people hoarding names is not against the rules, even if it is inconsiderate to other players. I think it’s hard to for the devs to ‘target the worst offenders’ if there is no policy or rule that they are breaking.
The nice thing about this system is it will just generally free up names over time automatically, with clear warnings and and clear consistent rules that apply to everyone equally.
Yes, the names will eventually be freed up but how will we know that or when? That's why this policy makes no sense. The only ones able to benefit from the name releases are those that see the data. Without a solution to offer the newly available name to the next person that tried it, in order of time/date typed into the UI, this is no solution at all. Because equality of opportunity is what the whole point of this is right? If so, then the 2nd person to want to the name should get it.
The Pretty Good AE Debate
in General Discussion
Posted
Thanks for adding your data. Why have we gone the route of pointing to a single AE map (125) for all things AE? There are thousands of AE maps, some garnering developer support as well. That's part of the problem with this proposed change. You will affect every AE map, not just 125. If the REAL target of this effort is to do away with over-zealous farming, then don't allow +4/8 settings on the asteroid. Limit that map to only allow for 75% of the density or as a solo toon, you can only set your team size to 6 for that map. Something along those lines. It's exactly the nature of the grossly over the top impacts that makes the community feel like you're being despots.