Kelaris
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Posts posted by Kelaris
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This is very convenient. Thanks for sharing.
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Dominator -> Dark Assault -> Moon Beam: Fast and slow snipes are doing the same damage.
Screenshot with combat log: https://imgur.com/LOkk96B
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Proc chance is capped at 90%.
http://web.archive.org/web/20120906114827/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?p=4213945
Also, I was under the impression that +recharge from set bonuses and buffs (like hasten) also affects PPM.
Interesting, thanks! I dimly remember reading this a long time ago. Didn't know it had been implemented.
I don't think global recharge from set bonuses or hasten are affecting proc rate, or the results of test 3 in my previous post would be very different. I was running 107.5% global recharge from set bonuses, which would have changed the expected proc rate from 100.725% to 62.498%, which should be noticeable in a sample size of 91.
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It has been my understanding that the proc rate for a single target attack is PPM * ((Base Recharge Time + Time To Activate) / (60)), and that only the recharge reduction that is slotted into a power affects this calculation. I was testing whether the recharge from the incarnate alpha slot also affected proc chance, and had some unexpected results.
These results are not necessarily unique to the beta server, but it is where I conducted my tests.
Test 1:
Midnight Grasp (Dominator /Dark Assault), slotted with only Hecatomb chance for negative energy damage (4.5 PPM). No incarnate alpha slotted. 15s recharge. 2.07 activation.
Attacks: 75
Procs: 67
Non-procs: 8
Expected proc rate: 100% (128%)
Observed proc rate: 89.3%
Test 2:
Midnight Grasp (Dominator /Dark Assault), slotted with 2 recharge reduction IOs (level 50+5), and Hecatomb chance for negative energy damage (4.5 PPM). No incarnate alpha slotted. 7.66s recharge. 2.07 activation.
Attacks: 76
Procs: 57
Non-procs: 19
Expected proc rate: 72.975%
Observed proc rate: 75%
Test 3:
Midnight Grasp (Dominator /Dark Assault), slotted with 1 recharge reduction IO (level 25), and Hecatomb chance for negative energy damage (4.5 PPM). No incarnate alpha slotted. 11.36s recharge. 2.07 activation.
Attacks: 91
Procs: 87
Non-procs: 4
Expected proc rate: 100% (100.725%)
Observed proc rate: 95.6%
Test 4:
Midnight Grasp (Dominator /Dark Assault), slotted with 1 recharge reduction IO (level 25), and Hecatomb chance for negative energy damage (4.5 PPM). Incarnate alpha slotted with spiritual core paragon. 8.47s (11.36s pre incarnate) recharge. 2.07 activation.
Attacks: 103
Procs: 79
Non-procs: 24
Expected proc rate: 79.05% or 100% (100.725%), depending on if incarnate recharge lowers proc rate.
Observed proc rate: 76.699%
Conclusions:
100% expected proc rate doesn't actually result in 100% proc activation. Maybe they're having to make their own hidden attack roll and are missing sometimes? Maybe going over 100% chance does odd things. Maybe Midnight Grasp or Hecatomb are interacting strangely. I can test a different ability/IO later and see if I get different results. Takes a long time to do this by hand. Not sure if GMs/Devs have a tool to do the job faster. I seem to remember Castle mentioned having the ability to conduct multi-thousand hit tests pretty quickly, a long time ago.
Incarnate alpha recharge is affecting proc rate. Not that that's necessarily a bug, but maybe useful information that at least I didn't know until now.
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@kelaris On live, Sniper w/Force Feedback is an 80% proc rate (2ppmx(4.33+20)/60s.) With these changes, it's a 54% proc rate (or 71% and 44% depending on how it calculates the activation times. That's the primary nerf for me. Sniper Blast right now is a great reliable place for a FF proc, and that's my primary use for it. With ~200 "natural" global recharge and the FF procs, I'm never waiting on recharge for Sniper, and I'm usually cycling it in with Roots/Psionic Tornado/Whirling Hands for AoE. This change turns it into a second Power Burst. Which makes a secondary that's already pretty boring even more boring.
I can't really speak to your attack chain. It seems weird that Midnight Grasp is only in one of your attack chains? i would have though a) that it would have better damage than test Snipe (2.76 vs 2.28) and b) it would be worth putting into your rotations. I'd also expect the damage on your snipe to go from 293 to (293*2.28/3.56=187.6.) I'm not sure if they hotfixed in a different change to the damage scaling already?
I'm really grateful to the devs for the work they've done, I don't think they're trying to do something horrible. I just think they don't understand the impact of having another generic 12s recharge blast is on sets that already have a generic 14s blast.
Thank you for your explanation. I can understand the desire for consistency with procs and diversity in attacks. The energy set does seem to have a lot of similar ranged single target attacks already.
Also thank you for pointing out that Midnight Grasp was missing in most of my attack chains. I was interrupted in the middle of calculating them, and apparently screwed something up. I've quadruple checked the numbers and updated my previous post.
On the test server my snipe hits for 188.06. May be off by a very small amount, as I'm having to manually remove my set bonus +dmg% modifier from my combat log damage. My calculations above include the planned + %21.0526316 buff to damage scale, when at +22% tohit (moves back to 2.76 scale).
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Would you mind explaining how this is a nerf for dominators? I don't have a dominator with snipe on the live servers to compare against, but have been playing a fair amount of the test server, and played dominators quite a bit on the official servers.
Based on my calculations with the changed snipes, we appear to be somewhere between no change in damage output, and a modest buff minor nerf. The damage, at +22% tohit, will be 77.5% of what it is on live, while recharging in only 60% as much time.
Numbers:
Here is a comparison of my dark/dark dominator's ideal attack chains between live and test at +177.5% global recharge, +22% tohit, base damage values, and my test server character's level of recharge in each power.
Attacks:
Smite: 95.76 damage, 2.09s recharge, 1.188 cast time
Gloom: 92.98 damage, 2.02s recharge, 1.32 cast time
Midnight Grasp: 161.2 damage, 3.79s recharge, 2.244s cast time
Moon Beam (live): 293.64 damage*, 5.67s recharge, 1.452 cast time**
Moon Beam (test): 227.66 damage, 3.13s recharge, 1.452 cast time**
*Since I don't have a live character with this snipe, I can't confirm that this is correct. However this is how much damage it should do, at damage scale 3.56.
**Arcanatime cast times based off the assumption that 1.33s activation time is accurate.
6-Part attack chain (live version):
Gloom
Smite
Midnight Grasp
Gloom
Smite
Moonbeam
95.537 DPS
6-Part attack chain (test version):
Moonbeam
Smite
Gloom
Moonbeam
Smite
Midnight Grasp
95.185 DPS
10-Part attack chain (live version):
Midnight Grasp
Smite
Gloom
Moonbeam
Smite
Midnight Grasp
Smite
Gloom
Moonbeam
Smite
100.019 DPS
10-Part attack chain (test version):
Smite
Moonbeam
Midnight Grasp
Gloom
Moonbeam
Smite
Midnight Grasp
Smite
Moonbeam
Gloom
94.360 DPS
If snipe was somehow your only attack and you filled the rest of the time with CC powers (live version):
Moonbeam
Moonbeam
Moonbeam
41.230 DPS
If snipe was your only attack and you filled the rest of the time with CC powers (test version):
Moonbeam
Moonbeam
Moonbeam
49.686 DPS
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While it's not quite a build-up, Ninja's stealth offers a very light permanent +dmg buff, and ramps it up to a total of +50% on your first attack each 30s. So it's not quite lacking a +dmg power, but like Martial it's not a click and while available more often it's also less reliable for timing its re-use in longer fights
Thanks for the correction. I'm still getting familiar with all the new blaster secondaries and relied on glancing through stuff in the Hero Designer in this case, instead of in game info. My bad.
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JackRooks: Earlier in this thread you specifically said "I don't mean to come across as an ass", which is the only reason I'm directly addressing you here. Almost every comment from you in this thread has come across as rude, and often belittling to the people volunteering their time to run this server. If you intend to be constructive, you can argue your point without attempting to talk down to anyone.
To address some of your points:
1) This is not a paid game any more. It's supported by donations, yes, but you don't have to do things to draw out the time people play the game in order to pay your rent or put food on your table. This is, or had better not be, a money making business, else NCsoft will come after it and shut it downNothing is being done to artificially inflate people's time spent in game. In fact a great deal has been done to reduce timesinks that were put in place by Paragon Studios. At the same time, a greater degree of balance in the game is always worth striving for. Paragon Studios wanted to bring ranged single target damage output closer to melee single target damage output. They were halfway through implementing this with the snipe changes. The Homecoming team is attempting to finish the job, and inviting player feedback to assist in getting a balanced and enjoyable result.
2) Following from number 1, there are already articles in the press about harassment going on in this game. How do you think NCSoft would respond to a bunch of negative publicity whipped up by angry people that got their characters changed? In today's "cancel culture" I really don't think it would be hard at all for a bunch of angry players to launch a petition or letter writing campaign to NCSoft to take notice of the server and shut it down, which they could easily do.In my opinion, each part of this scenario is unlikely in the extreme. I don't believe that the Homecoming team would push to live a change that was widely detested. I find it hard to believe that even if it were, that enough people would be so upset that they would not only quit, but also write to NCSoft, for some reason, in some attempt to shut the servers down. And even if these two things happened, it seems unlikely that a hundred (A thousand? How many do you imagine?) angry petitioners would be able to move NCSoft into an action against this server unless that was already planned.
I really had hoped that a team running a private server would focus on real content - missions, stories, events, new arts, powers, etc. instead of just trying their hand at the old nerf/buff/rinse/repeat game that people hated back when MMOs were still a thing.In my experience with MMOs and other online games, having small but relatively frequent changes to the balance of the game does a good job at retaining and renewing player interest. People with a high time investment are generally happy to try out new things, and people with low time investment are generally happy that they aren't stuck forever with a "bad" character. I agree that adding new missions and art and powersets would be great, but they would also be a larger undertaking than balancing powers and reworking a single mechanic that is unintuitive to new players.
My suggestion: Before implementing any kind of game mechanic changes, spend a great deal of time openly discussing it with the community before even considering touching the code. If it seems that the community ifs feeling that it's somehow so bad it's destroying the game, then work with the community to agree upon a solution. Tell us what's technically possible and what isn't. Finally release it onto test and honestly listen to all feedback. Then, if it's well received and doesn't cause other problems, releasing it to live wont cause this kind of consternation in the community.This is almost exactly what is happening. The section of the community that is interested is testing things on a test server and providing feedback well in advance of any changes going live. In what way is this insufficient?
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I tested beam/devices, assault rifle/devices, and dark/dark blasters for a while today. Tested dark/dark dominator for several hours, a couple days ago.
Snipes:
The more that I play with snipes on the test server, the more I look forward to them going live. It's nice to be able to use the snipes to form a strong single target attack chain without depending on someone else having tactics too (as blaster/dominator).
The overhead text popup on successful slow snipe is neat. Feels a lot like assassin strike. The 10s delay before re-entering slow-snipe mode also feels in line with assassin strike.
Damage per activation on fast snipe seems very good in every set I tried.
I imagine there's a good reason that they're blank, but it would be nice if the detailed information for snipes worked, or if their stats were listed somewhere.
Speaking of numbers, the damage for Moonbeam in dominator dark assault seems to have changed (203.23 to 188.06) since Saturday. Or, I recorded my damage numbers wrong, twice!
The animation/activation time for sniper rifle in the assault rifle set seems long compared to the other fast snipes. Haven't recorded and timed it yet, but just comparing it to other attacks in the set, so I could be entirely mistaken. Looks and sounds good, but the damage per activation time seems to suffer a little, which is unfortunate for a set that's already a little low on single target damage.
Devices:
I feel that the main problem with devices has traditionally been its lack of +damage (build up) powers. Ninja training and Devices is the only blaster secondaries that lacks a +damage power. Devices seems to try to get around that with additional attack powers, and while my first instinct is to suggest simply adding +damage% to targeting drone, I think it could be a very interesting set if instead its attack powers were made strong. The changes in the June 2nd patch seem like a nice step in that direction.
The web grenade change is nice. I believe it will be especially appreciated in lower levels. Don't think I would slot it heavily in most builds, but it's a nice option.
Taser seems exceptional now, I can see taking and slotting it as part of an attack chain.
Never thought I'd say it, but time bomb actually feels... decent, now. The 6 minute recharge is maybe still a bit high, but when it's up, it feels nice to time bomb + primary nuke and have the entire spawn relocate to the afterlife.
I'd love to see trip mine lose its interrupt time, as it's already pretty dangerous to go stand near the tank for 5 seconds. Feels awful to have it amount to nothing because of being tagged by residual AoE. Alternatively, maybe add the huge +AoE defense that stalker hide has, to field operative, when you're not engaged in combat. That would allow one relatively safe trip mine per engagement, and it's a pretty strong attack if it actually goes off.
Turning knockback into knockdown, or just a lower magnitude knockback, is always appreciated too.
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I tested the changes on the beta server for a couple hours. Level 50 dark/dark Dominator with good IOs. Only used alpha and interface slot incarnate stuff. Did a handful of +3/x8 missions solo.
Overall I like the idea behind the changes. It's much more intuitive for less experienced/less informed players. It was previously also a bit of a nuisance to lose fast snipe when I got hit by a to-hit debuff.
I was initially a little concerned by the Dominator snipe damage reduction. However, in practice the fast snipe is monstrously strong at 139.97 DPA, if the activation time is 1.33s (1.452s Arcanatime) and my napkin math is correct anyhow. The next best attack in the set is 80.6 DPA. With the reduced recharge on snipe, it formed the cornerstone of a fairly strong attack chain.
Nitpick: I would prefer if the fast snipe retained the long range of the slow snipe. It's convenient for finishing runners on live, but otherwise has minimal impact on group PvE combat.
It's exciting to see stuff being worked on and tinkered with. Thank you to everyone who is involved in development for the game/server.
A Question from The Homecoming Team
in Announcements
Posted
I'm completely happy with what we already have.
However if the team were to continue to expand on the game, I'd love to see: