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bandofhorses

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Posts posted by bandofhorses

    Focused Feedback: PvP Updates

    in [Open Beta] Focused Feedback

    Posted

    19 minutes ago, EmperorSteele said:

    Did... did Charlie just use alt accounts to make his suggestions seem more popular? Three accounts with minimal post history posting all at the same time seems a little weird!

    How dare you... I've defeated GM Jimmy. I am the most prolific PvPer in the game. I just really like Charlie's idea and honestly he should probably have an Emmy.

    • Haha 1

    Animation canceling and how it's exploited in pvp

    in Bug Reports

    Posted

    10 hours ago, MJB said:

    you have neatly cherry picked pretty much the only example where animation cancelling macros do actually increase the skill ceiling massively (re-targeting after bfr/shout/whatever), however you neatly ignored the fact that pretty much no one actually does that because why would you when there are far easier ways to do way too much damage. you also neatly missed out people skipping the animation for blazing bolt, which i know you and your team dont tend to use anymore, but pretty much every other team still relies on it for a serious chunk of their damage. 

     

    however as many people have pointed out, animation cancelling is in fact of marginal benefit to offence in 8v8s, however for emp/support characters it absolutely reduces the skill gap. i would go as far as to say that the biggest contributor to kill scores being lower now than they were 6 months ago isnt actually jaunt, but more emps using animation cancelling macros (i can absolutely see the argument for this being a good thing, but i disagree in the method of achieving lower scores). it used to be that positioning yourself not only to get a heal off on target on time was a skill, but positioning yourself so that you can do a followup heal was too, now the latter is completely trivialised by pressing 1 button with no downsides. on top of that it used to be a risk to buff people in between spikes, as the root might get you too far away from your teammates as they chase someone, now this is entirely not a problem. i remember commenting often that every time i would fort someone, someone on my team would die because i was then out of position. imo, this made me a bad emp, good emps never seemed to have this problem, now i press 1 button and one of the distinguishing factors between me being bad and good players being good is no longer existent. hell its gone far enough that now it is perfectly normal to just throw out spirit ward on someone you think might be the next target, with absolutely no downsides to doing so. i dont feel like im exaggerating when i say a team with emps cancelling their every animation has a massive advantage on one that doesnt, it doesnt make up for everything (you still need to be on time for the first heal after all) but it absolutely reduces the skill gap between good and bad emps, purely by adding 1 button to your tray, no downsides.

     

    its gone far enough that emps are now almost expected to also do more than just heal/buff, like playing a semi disruption role throwing out confuses and thunderous blasts, or helping the offence by throwing out ssj on target to hold spike people, and they can always do this while easily still being on heal target. it used to be just the good emps that could pull off such feats, now its normal.

     

    and all of that is completely ignoring the fact that there is more to pvp in this game than just 8v8s, i understand that its pretty much the only format you are interested in, but this isnt the "8v8 rules forum". i mean theres a 2v2 tournament happening soon, you may not care about it, i dont know, but i know of quite a few people who are quite looking forward to it. i honestly cant see an argument for how animation cancelling doesnt trivialise movement in 2v2 matches, suddenly you never need to time your jumps or anything while chasing that emp around for 10 minutes, just spam 1 button. its even worth cancelling super fast attacks like char or bib, so what if you lose target? they are the only target in your fov anyway... i would be surprised if whatever team ends up winning the event plays a single animation, other than drawing crey pistol of course.

     

    i remember when attacks like shout and bfr were high risk high reward powers in smaller team matches, now there is no risk.

    You neatly cherry picked... nevermind

    Offensively it creates a higher skill ceiling.
    Blazing bolt, if you're using this you already have a flatter skill curve.
    Im not going to go into all of rares strats current/old/and future just to try to convince a contrarian of something. Yes it is useful for more than just BFR (to Silent Method as well).

     

    Emps using it increases the skill ceiling as well, because emps can actually do more now and impact the game harder. Which in a meta with this stupid levels of damage, that's awesome. There's a reason why people cry when Xhiggy rings against them. I don't see heal timings being better now, but we don't have empirical evidence to support that, just my feeling from ringing and kickball. There are a lot of aspects to a good emp that people seem to just completely not understand. Crey only enhances that. Doing more is more impactful.

     

    The lower the team size the flatter the skill curve. I have no interest in debating 2v2s.

    • Like 1

    Animation canceling and how it's exploited in pvp

    in Bug Reports

    Posted

    3 hours ago, MJB said:

    maybe you dont consider me on the higher levels of the skill curve, but imo animation skipping macros are bad for the game. yes they theoretically increase the skill ceiling, but they reduce the skill gap between good and bad players, a poor player using animation cancelling will be comparatively closer to a better player, regardless of whether or not the better player is using the same macros. positioning is a major skill in this game, or at least it was, animation skipping macros are literally "never worry about positioning again with this 1 weird trick".

     

    you press 1 button and you are magically a better player, imo the game is easy enough mechanically without such things.

     

    and yes, i am well aware enforcing such a thing as banning them all would be next to impossible, so really i suppose im just arguing for argument sake at this point (though i seem to remember no one had a problem with banning emote cancelling on an honour system before we knew we could detect it through replays...)

     

    p.s. please dont use "bad players are bad lol" as a defence for anything, its a lazy argument

    Completely disagree on this. I'd go as far as to say you're wrong. A good player using redraw animation cancellation vs a a bad player using redraw animation cancellation is a far bigger gap than both not using it. With the abilities being used currently there isn't a huge benefit to using it on say strangler or dominate your ending attacks in a spike. With it you add in the option to use things like BFR etc as extras or fit it in a chain that you normally wouldn't, now when it comes to good players using BFR vs bad players the bad player is still going to get himself/herself killed or be off target. A good player can relock onto a target enhancing the skill ceiling, the skill floor goes up but not at as high a rate as the ceiling does.

    Animation canceling and how it's exploited in pvp

    in Bug Reports

    Posted

    Redraw animation cancelling creates a larger skill ceiling so I can see why some people want to remove it. It only gives an advantage if you're good at it. We've seen people that can't reach the higher levels of the skill curve say things like "Melee is dead" "Bring back travel suppression" and this chirping sounds very much the same to me. If you dont understand what you're talking about it's probably best to actually get educated on the topic first.

    • Haha 1

    Top 10 Emps in the Game

    in The Arena (PvP)

    Posted

    On 5/2/2020 at 3:04 PM, Hot3 said:

    UPDATE.

    as some people have moved up & some people have moved out..

     

    1. hells

    2. xhiggy 

    3. Poned

    4. RavenFrost

    5. mjb

    6. Liberty

    7. vegetableknife

    8. tempty
    9. smallz

    10. Hinden

     

    honorable mentions to charlie, dan, kyle, gore, tanzie & someone else im forgetting that either plays for vori, ren or incursion.

    Could you update this with players that have ACTUALLY emped in the last month? Thanks in advance.

    Top 20 Offense in the Game

    in The Arena (PvP)

    Posted

    I know this has been very controversial, but I'll stoke the fires a bit more. Anyone that would even attempt to rank players without seeing PoVs (which are banned) would be an idiot, welp I'll be an idiot. Here is my list of top 10 offense that aren't on RARE or GBoTI (way too biased to include them).

     

    1. MJB - One of the most versatile callers out there. Solid on any AT.

    2. Gunrock - Strong calling or locking for Incursion, the backbone of that team that has one of the strongest offenses in the game.

    3. Silent Method - Possibly the top evader on this list. Reliably on target. Doesn't have to play blaster.

    4. M3z - One of the best locks in the game, a top tier click locker. I'll take his blaster or stalker any day.

    5. Pixel - Though absent lately, one of the most consistent callers in the game. I wasn't quite sure where to place him on this list tbh.
    6. Spec - Reliable caller, quite survivable.
    7. Artic - The second half of the dynamic duo back boning Incursion. Another of the top tier click lockers. Can play any AT.
    8. Larry Lobster - The best hibes in the game.
    9. Void - Reliable lock, can actually AS on a stalker.
    10. Dak - Very torn here between a plethora of players, especially quite a few on GGz. I gave Dak the edge because he can play any AT, call, or lock.

    Like I said doing this without seeing people's PoVs is pretty much guessing. This is my best guess based on the information I have. Really the difference between them is so minuscule, everyone has gotten so much better since live. I hope homecoming can get a deal with NCSoft soon so we can resume content creation and get those PoVs out there.

    • Like 1
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