Jeuraud
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Posts posted by Jeuraud
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You could say it's the wrong argument but I'm questioning why it wouldn't want to draw attention to itself, especially considering the parallel we're drawing is a Paladin type.
The OP specifically stated that they were not thinking of a Paladin type.
I was thinking more of a Shadow Knight or Beastlord type class from EQ1 more than Paladin.
And need I remind you, the OP's vision is unclear.
I found the OP's vision to be quite clear.
As far as *this* particular AT is concerned, with Stalker defensive values and MM support values, they'd hardly be overpowered.
The Defiler definitely needs some defense, Stalker levels are enough to make them survive in the chaos of an 8 man team while also preventing them from being able to take the alpha like a Tanker or Brute.
You were the one making things unclear.
They don't know whether to have placate in taunts place or not.
The way I read this,
One problem with the Defiler would be what to do with Taunt, since this AT does not want to draw attention to itself under any circumstance.
is that the OP is positive that they do not want Taunt in this AT, they just don't know what to put into its slot, thus opening it up for brainstorming.
'm making the argument that the AT shouldn't want to shy away from aggro especially considering the ridiculous tricks a support-type can pull off RIGHT NOW to shirk off attacks.
Support has Buffs, Debuffs and Heals, and many of the Buffs do not affect them, or they have to be in the MOBs face to be affected by them. Kinetics's, That Which Shall Not Be Named power, the power that everyone wants, is one of those powers. Kinetics's, SB and IR do not affect them at all, a couple more powers that everyone wants, especially now that IR no longer slows you. Hells all of the powers that Kinetics can benefit from requires To Hit, and there is no -Def, or +Acc in the set.
Are the 'ridiculous tricks' that allows Support specifically, to 'shirk off' attacks, any more ridiculous than Melee Armors, or Controller CCs, or MM Pets? Also how well do these 'ridiculous tricks' work when they are doing face time with the MOBs
As for this thread, how about you state that the OP's vision does not fit yours, then write up and post a Paladin type Support/Melee (In your own thread.), instead of trying to hijack the OP's thread.
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if you are able to do all of that and keep increase density on the pets making them immune to knockback, you may have something here.
granted you have to cast increase density 5 times every 90s to make that happen, but knockback is the biggest pain in the ass for mm's in general. the only secondary with any way to protect the pets from it is kin
you do need to massage this in pines to see if you can softcap yourself if you plan to tankermind. you are very vulnerable to CC
Thanks for the input.
Increase Density, is now a AoE so I only have to hit it once every so often. What would be really nice is if it affected me as well as my pets, or my pets AoE buffs affected me as long as I was within range of them.
I've already seen the affects of CC when faced off with a Named Lt. It slept both me and my Striker, but did not get my Bodyguards. I try now to put the MOB in the middle, between me and my Striker, that way as long as it's not a PBAoE it will only get one of us, and try to remember I have a Breakfree available.
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I am a programmer. I've worked in game development for almost 9 years. Given the quality the devs here have shown, I'm making what I think is a reasonable assumption that this would not be a difficult task.
I noticed you did not volunteer your services as a programmer... why not?
CoHH is no longer a professional product, but a hobbyist project. Something that needs to be driven home. Hells if I was a CoHH Dev, I would give you the code and say "Here, go for it."
Not saying I think your want would be a good idea, just that it would be entertaining to see you try. From what I've heard of the CoH program, it's spaghetti, with red sauce, and white sauce, and chicken, and hamburger, and mushrooms, and.
Note, a hobbyist project does not mean low quality. Hobbyist projects are often of higher quality in this day and age of wanting it now and cheap.
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That's the wrong answer.
You asked a question about what 'I'd prefer', which means the only right answer is the one I give, not the one you think is fricken correct.
I would add to this that if the AT is built fragile and probably more at DPS angle, yes. But if it's more aimed toward handling that aggro, then no.
I've just realized something about your argument, something I should have picked up earlier; when you say Melee/Support your thinking Tank/Tank Brute which Taunt is built for, when I say Melee/Support I'm thinking Scrapper/DPS Brute/Stalker were Taunt is of little use, or even detrimental to the AT.
This is in the opening statement.
One problem with the Defiler would be what to do with Taunt, since this AT does not want to draw attention to itself under any circumstance.
You are making the wrong argument. You should be arguing for a Support/Melee, not for Taunt to be a part of the OP's vision of a Melee/Support. A vision I... support.
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If the goal is just to get more set bonuses, I think the better suggestion, that would benefit more than just these two powers, is a new type of IO Set Category: Universal Efficiency. These would be sets that just offer Recharge, End Redux, Accuracy, and maybe Range. They'd be slottable in just about anything, including powers with effects that can't be enhanced, of which there are, I think, 18 in the Support powersets.
This is the kind of idea I was hoping for from this thread, and what I can get behind.
As for the possible tweaking of the That Which Shall Not Be Named; I figured the Home Devs were not tweaking preexisting powers for 'balance'. They are Gamers just like the rest of us, and I figured what tweaks they are doing are to make a fun game for themselves and us, after all they are not trying to sell us the game, nor are they responsible to provide us a balanced game.
Am I wrong about what the Home Devs are tweaking, and why?
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I wouldn't categorize Controller or MM though as they have CC and pets.
So you don't consider, Knockdown, Knockup, and Stuns CC?
As for the MM Pets, you cant really control them when you are in the scrum. They are your armor like any Resistance set, and extra DPS, like Death Shroud and Blazing Aura; only your armors don't go running off after a runner, and your damage aura does not sit there laughing at you because whatever is supposed to active their attack while in bodyguard, didn't.
For me, Melee/Support is someone who gets in the MOBs face and has a Support set.
As is, Tanker/Brute taunt has a debuff to range that forces mobs closer to be able to act. I see no reason why a Melee/Support wouldn't want that. Or would you prefer mobs shoot at you where you can't affect them?
Well I'd rather have a bunch of MOBs shooting me than getting in my face and punching me, and as for the one I'm face punching, I usually just get up there and you know, punch it in the face. This seems to work for my Scrappers, Stalkers, Brutes, Corrupters, Controlers, MMs, Dominators, Blasters, etc..
We get it. You two don't like the Taunt powers and you skip them whenever possible. I still don't think that's a reason to remove them, especially when the AT has MUCH more pressing issues to deal with.
You mean You think you get it.
On my early Scrappers I had Taunt to pull off the squashy, that is part of my job... the problem was that I would more than likely run over and punch the MOB, and then later remember that I had taunt. After a while I just quit getting taunt on my Scrappers, and never got it for my Brutes. Of course the early Taunts did not have a Range Debuff, just the taunt, which limited their usefulness.
I was thinking that I would rather have a ranged attack to get that distant MOBs attention, than a Taunt, then I realized that I would prefer a Teleport Attack, that puts me in the MOBs face. That I would take over a taunt any day.
As for the Interceptor's Inherent, some of the Inherents were put in to aid the ATs' in their specific duty, such as Gauntlet, but some were put in to help where the AT was lacking, such as Containment.
So what is the specific duty of the Interceptor?
Not sure.
Where do you think it's going to be lacking?
I think it's going to be an agro magnet, with it's Melee Attacks, Buffs, Debuffs, and Heals, and I think it's going to need some type of PBAOE Placate, but I'm not sure how this would work as an Inherent.
Not a lot of help here I know, but that is what Brainstorming is for.
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Many common powers have few good sets or no sets and need slotting. They're the exception, but they're not extraordinary.
Then IMO they should be fixed... not with "good" sets, just with sets. Now if they turn out to be good sets that's great.
I mention Kinetics because I'm currently running a Beast/ Kin MM and noticed that these two powers did not have slottable IO sets... in primary powers no less. I'm not having an issue with her, she's only 12 right now but she is a Beast in melee, which is what I wanted from her, and is not really due to Kinetics at this time. As she levels I'm going to need to spend slots on her Kin powers and I would like the global buffs that come with IO sets (Especially if I continue to run her in melee.), and I'm not going to get them from these powers, but other power sets will get global buffs from the same number of IO slots spent.
Not gaining the same benefits from the same number of slots is fundamentally wrong, and I cant believe that I'm having to argue for my suggestion. You people shouldn't be telling me "this is the way it is"... you should be listing the other powers that also should be fixed... and maybe suggestions for other, maybe better, things for the Kinetic powers I listed, which is what I thought I would get from this thread.
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So you're saying Fulcrum Shift is underpowered as is, and needs to be fixed....?
I could just say 'Strawman' and leave it at that... but,
Do you not need to slot Fulcrum Shift?
The IO sets are not just about improving the power, but the character overall with the global buffs that come with the sets. To be frank as an Altaholic I was thinking more about Siphon Power, but I feel fair is fair.
How well the power works is irrelevant, if it can be slotted then there should be IO sets that can be slotted into it. Of course this is just my opinion, maybe the rest of the community is fine with having to spend slots on a power that you cannot slot with IO sets.
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And why not just leave it with taunt? We don't need to overly complicate things.
For the same reason Stalkers don't get Taunt. It just doesn't do what the AT wants to do.
Because it's rather antithetical to what a Stalker wants to do, i.e. go unseen. They also have an interruptible melee ranged attack that hinges on not being hit while using it.
A melee/support AT isn't about drawing aggro and surviving it through personal defences...
Why not? Why would that not be a viable tactic?
In fact, I'd argue that their taunt should be AoE like Tanker/Brute but have a weak taunt effect but severe -range debuff that's stronger than either Tanker/Brute. I would want foes to be unable to adaquately engage my Melee/Support without getting practically in my face.
It's not just about not doing what the AT wants to do, it's about not dying.
When the Stalker first came out, you would try to AS in a MOB group and you would die (Even when running solo.), sometimes before your attack would finish if you were doing an AS before you got your AS attack. You learned real fast not to do that, and to let somebody pull agro before you AS in a group.
Have you ever tried to run a Melee/Support?
You can kind of can do a Melee/Support with a Corrupter and Controller, and do a fairly descent job with a MM in bodyguard, but you have to pull from the Pools for your melee attacks... and you do not want more than a couple of MOBs on you at a time in melee. Support just cannot pick up the slack in time, and I figure even with a bit of armor this would be true. Of course I'm talking about the 1 to 50 ride, not your fully decked out 50.
Most Melee/Supports are no more going to Taunt then a Stalker will. You are already going to be pulling agro with your Melee Attacks, Buffs, Debuffs and Heals. Hells, your probably going to need some type of placate to not pull from the person who should be holding most of the agro, which as a support should not be you.
Note: I do not like the Defiler name. Even though I run mostly on the red side, I think all new ATs should be neutral in name and Defiler is to villainy for me. To bad Sentinel has already been taken, I think that would have been a good Melee/Support name.
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There are two powers in Kinetics that have this ??? Condition ???, and are 'should take', as in, 'You took Kinetics and did not take these... really? ::) '. Both of them require hit checks, and both of them are, 'you want them up ASAP', which means your going to slot them. You might opt out of the first power after you take the second, but CoHV/CoHH is supposed to be about the journey as much as the end, so that should not be a reason for not fixing both of the powers in a set that now affects four ATs. The CoHV devs should have fixed this issue, especially after IOs were introduced, but they didn't, so it's now up to the CoHH devs to fix. From what I have seen so far you-all seem to be up to the challenge.
My suggestions for Siphon Power and Fulcrum Shift are
Make a new set category.
Allow them to be slotted with Ranged Damage sets, even though they do not do damage.
Add a small Damage to them, and allow them to be slotted with Ranged Damage sets.
Add a small Absorb to them, and allow them to be slotted with Heal/Absorb and Accurate Heal/Absorb sets.
Now I'm sure that others will have other suggestions, but I kind of like the last suggestion. I have no idea what it would take to fix the Kinetics issue, just that in the world of IO sets... it should be fixed.
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The challenge isn't in organizing as a non-profit. There are many online tools to help with this...it isn't really difficult. What's going to be difficult is finding a legitimate purpose that qualifies as a non-profit.
Isn't the point of hiring somebody to help create the non-profit, is to remove the difficulty. Why else hire somebody? Funds are usually the limiting factor when trying to hire a Pro, but at this time, funds should not be an issue.
charitable, religious, educational, scientific, literary, testing for public safety, fostering national or international amateur sports competition, and preventing cruelty to children or animalsAnd we don't fit any of those categories cleanly...
Maybe somebody at Homecoming can register as a Minister/Priest/Etc. of the church/temple/etc. of CoHH, so that we may all learn to Grok CoH.
Maybe COHH can be declared an International Amateur E sports competition.
Finding a charity to give whatever profits are made above cost should not be that difficult.
Again, the difficult shit, is why you hire someone else.
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Seems to me that Beast/Kin is made for the TankerMind.
Three of the Kin powers are Targeted Area of Effect, and two are PBAoE, which means that if your not in the scrum with them somebodies not getting the buffs or the heal.
Also unlike most of the useless MM attacks, all of the Beast attacks have secondary functions. Swarm has -Def, -Speed, is fast and you add the P2W Knockdown (And I figure a knockdown after 21.), and you are knocking them down all the time. It's hilarious to watch a Shotgun MOB get knocked off its feet after firing its shotgun, because the knockdown on Swarm kicked in at the same time. Hawk has -To Hit, Chance for Knockdown, and -Fly, and there has been a number of times that I've knocked the MOB down, and then knocked it down again with the other attack.
I'm only level 12 at this time, and am worried that this all disappears at higher level, but this is how I fight my Beasts right now.
I open on the highest MOB with Swarm and Siphon. I wait for the Alpha, spreading around the wealth with Bodyguard, and then rush towards it hitting it with Swarm and Hawk, and Beast Attack, but only 1 of the three, leaving the other two on Bodyguard. I ignore the Minion MOBs at this time, and my bodyguards pick them up. We're in the scrum now so I hit Swarm and Transfusion, and finish the MOB (With Sands right now.), and then turn to the remaining minions, and help clean up whats left with Swarm, Transfusion, and Hawk. When I get a runner it is often bracketed so it cant go anywhere, and when it is able to run, it runs away very slowly because of Swarm. When it runs I immediately call my Beasts back (Def/Follow All command.), and hit the MOB with Swarm, and sometimes Hawk. Even at +1 we are often pretty much healed up at this time. Even Ambushes don't affect me that much (Unless it's a fricken purple.), because I'm already used to being in the scrum.
Now I know that most MMs, and most gamers, do not like being in the scrum, but I find I like it as long as I have the tools, and Beast/Kin seems to have those tools... at least right now.
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I'M kind of with the OP on this. All the stuff he said is so true to me. I used to play both games at the same time and liked them a lot. COH combat is slow compared to CO too. The long cooldowns on some powers don't help. And you can move around while using your powers in CO too. And you are really weak in those early levels compared to CO.
This was all designed to pull in the WoW-kiddies and those disenfranchised with CoHV... it failed to do either.
As for action combat within a MMO, Wildstar had CO beat hands down, another niche MMO that would still be here if not for NCSoft.
As for CoHV combat being slow, this is true only if you do not group. You group up and combat gets real chaotic, real fast, and grouping was common and easy in CoHV... not so much in CO, and nothing has changed in CoHH in regards to grouping ease.
CoHV was fixing the lack of powers at start with Temp and Prestige powers, along with reducing the animation and recharge times of the powers when possible. I just tried a Water/Dark Miasma Corrupter, and it felt like Twilight Grasp was taking forever to finish, while Hydro Blast was fast and fluid.
With CoHH's P2W you can gain access to Prestige powers and higher level Es right from the start, giving you more powers to play with and more punch, at the start.
I think most of the rage came because COH got shut down and CO didn't.
I would like to say this is one of the silliest statements I have read in Forums, but it really isn't.
Not one person really came up with a good reason why COH was a better game. It was just a personal choice and that is not a real reason
In the long run Personal Choice is the only 'real' reason.
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I think turning CoHH into a non-profit would be the best way to stay out of NC Soft's sights, and here is a website for creating non-profits, with flying people on the cover no less :).
I have no fricken clue if they are worth the money, or how much trouble it would be, or how much it would cost overall, but costs should not be an issue this early into the release of CoHH. 99.9% of the complaining on this thread is about not being able to donate to CoHH, which I agree with.
As for the time, I suggest limiting the amount, and open it up on the first day of the month for 24 hours, or until you reach your goal. I was figuring that this was how it was going to happen anyways and was ready to jump in on July 1st.
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While City of Titants is still in the slow-going development stages, it is doing something kind of interesting with its archetypes that feels like a compromise with this. Basically, each Archetype has three classification sub-archetypes (the former determining primaries, and the latter secondaries). For example, their Mastermind Equivalent would be an Brigadier (Pets/Support), alongside the Taskmaster (Pets/Assault) and Ringleader (Pets/Manipulation), and then basically letting you choose your Inherent out of three for each archetype, and effectively building your own archetype from those three things.
This is what would make me leave CoH, for CoH2, as long as this
Nc soft never gets to even look at it.
was also a part of CoH2. I know of at least 3 western MMOs they have shut down.
I check out SoH every so often but one of the things that keeps me from investing in it is that the ATs are pretty much the same as CoH (Not sure how CoHH is going to affect it.), which I've had issues with since the release of CoH (Even before I faced FrostFire.). I would like to play a Melee primary with a Support secondary, or maybe a Melee primary with a Pets Summons secondary, or... uh, I think my alttitist got away from me :).
Anyways, I think a MA/Kin Brute would be absolutely cool. Hells, FrostFire and Statesman got to mix power sets why cant I?
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It might behoove you to read through an entire thread before replying. The person you are replying to is 1) unable to use keyboard binds because of serious manual dexterity issues, and 2) incredible frustrated by people telling them that not using binds is playing wrong - which you are coming very close to doing.
, managing WASD is already a full-time job for my left hand.
This tells me that they are able to use the keyboard to some level, and this
A lot of wasted time and effort for an ultimately inferior result when I already have a working system in place? No thank you.
tells me that they do not care to learn how to do Keybinds. They figure that it's not worth their trouble, which is fine as long as they run solo, but as soon as they group, or you know interact with the other people of this MMO, like standing at a Trainer with all of their henchmen groaning, hissing, moving, and flashing their various buffs, then they are no longer running solo.
I'm fricken 60, have 30% military disability, my hands ache all the time from working with tools since I can remember (The 30% is not linked to this issue.), and my left ring finger locks up on me from time to time, due to being broken when I was a kid. We all have issues of some kind or another, and there are tools out there to overcome them. Some of these tools are the Keybinds the CoH devs provided for us. Another tool is a Programmable Multi-buttoned Mouse, which anybody who is MMOing, even in a free MMO, should be able to afford over time (I figure he is not MMOing on a free computer at the library.), with a little effort. Hells they are fully functional outside of gaming, which means they can be used for other Apps besides games.
I did not say it in my previous post but I agreed with PaxArcana, and called BS as I was reading this thread. As far as I care Black Zot is one of those people that would rather throw the animal carcass on the occasional lighting strike fire and have cooked meat occasionally, than learn to control fire and have cooked meat all the time.
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They make things easier FOR YOU. But for someone like me with manual dexterity issues, managing WASD is already a full-time job for my left hand. Asking me to try and hunt down a bunch of esoteric keyboard commands during the time crunch of combat (when everything I need to do is better handled by my dominant hand on the mouse interfacing with command buttons I can actually see on-screen) is a bit like asking me to walk the long way round to get to work when I have a car and a short, direct route.
A lot of wasted time and effort for an ultimately inferior result when I already have a working system in place? No thank you.
I'm curious,
how often do you use the left/right keys in CoH, it's not like you can strafe or even move while you are attacking, this is not Wildstar. Hells with Tab Targeting you can be facing away from the MOB once you target it and still attack.
Another thing all the keys in CoH are totally bindable and Keybind.txt is your friend. I found I was not using my left pinky at all so I rebound my board so my pinky was on the 'A' key for "+forward", my three other fingers on 'E', 'R', and 'T', for '1', '2', and '3' (I never strafe in CoH.), and my thumb on the 'Space Key'. With this setup my fingers can fairly easy reach down to the 'D', 'F', and 'G' keys, and up to the '3' to '6' keys. I use 'Mouse 4' for Auto Run with this keybind
BUTTON4 "++forward$$powexec_toggleon Ninja Run"
and the '6' key for
"inspexec_name Resurgence$$inspexec_name Dramatic Improvement$$inspexec_name Respite"
I'm not saying you have to use my setup, what I'm saying is that with Keybinds and '/Slash' commands you can setup your keyboard to work however you want it to work, and with Keybind.txt files you can do that fairly easily, outside of the game, and even setup different keybind files for different characters.
Not using Keybinds is like walking to the store instead of learning to drive... because your feet are good enough.
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, when all 5 wacking the same mob, they tend to just run off.
And this is probably part of the problem, and something I've noticed while grouping with MMs (Back in my CoHV days. I've yet to group in CoHH. To much of an Altaholic.).
There should be 6 wacking the same MOB.
The attacks from the primary are part of the package, and if nothing else you should be spamming Swarm which has a Speed Debuff, and is fast to start with (The Def Debuff does not hurt either.), and you dont even have to get into the scrum. Drop a couple of those freebee P2W Es into it (Especially the knockdown before level 21.), and your golden.
You spam Swarm, and the MOB slowly runs away, HPs melting away, from your DDs, Dots, and of course your Beasts. You add a Knockdown IO to Swarm and there's a good chance the MOB is not going anywhere. You add Raven and Hawk to the mix and you have even more Speed Debuff, Knockdown, DDs and Dots. There are other Debuffs in these attacks as well, but this thread is about runaways.
Defiler (Melee/Support AT)
in Suggestions & Feedback
Posted
Going back over my posts I realized that I got a bit argumentative and never said that I like the OP's vision of a Melee/Support.
Well I do and here are some ideas I've come up with.
One of the things I have always hated about the Armor sets is having that first slot be an armor. Armor at this level is fairly useless, and until you can slot it with some Lev 20 Es remains fairly useless. Also it's a passive, making you look elsewhere for something to do.
What I would like to see in the first spot of Support is an active Buff-Debuff, and then a Heal in the second spot, and then the first armor in the third spot.
I think I mentioned this in passing, but I would like to see a Teleport Attack, with a chance for knockdown, in the Taunt spot of Melee.
I've also mentioned this before but I feel the Interceptor is going to be an agro magnet and I think the inherent needs to address this.
What I'm thinking is that the inherent be like the Dominator's, but instead of being based upon how much you hit, based upon how much you are hit, and unlike the fricken click of the Dominator, at some point it goes off automatically (Supposedly before you die.), and activates a PBAoE Placate.
I really hate the click of the Dominator, because I'm never sure if I should use it now, or later, and as an Altaholic I dont think about after perma, I think about the ride to it. This being said, being pounded buy numerous MOBs and almost dead is a fairly easy measure of when to use the PBAoE Placate, so a click might work for this inherent.