Naraka

March 26

lol Poison Defender slapping their **** on the table.

I'd say, if you're in a group that's mostly self-sufficient like a Tanker + Scrapper, keeping your own self-sufficiency in mind would be smart. Dialing the debuffs back to Corruptor or Controller/Mastermind would make you able to hold your own. But if you're going full support with any buffs to boost your team too...I guess it's up to you.

March 7

33 minutes ago, aethereal said:

You're desperately wrong, but even if you were right that it's "foolish" to balance sets, not powers (and it is very much the opposite of foolish), they do in fact balance sets, not powers.

You have a bad habit of making strawman arguments.

The "foolish outlook" part was in regards to the "This is a distinction without a difference" statement. I'm not talking about balancing anything, I'm talking about making powers distinct not by just what powerset it's in but who's using it.

You just chose to divorce my whole post from talking about the differences between certain powers across ATs to some ridiculous tangent you made up because you need to save face.

37 minutes ago, aethereal said:

To go back to the (correct) point that you had at the beginning, regardless of the reason for things, facts are facts. ~100% of all Bio Armor characters have a taunt and a damage aura surrounding them. What actual difference would it make to anyone's actual play experience if those two effects were colocated into a single power versus being effects of separate powers?

Not that I actually care, but since you seem to love nitpicking, I'll show you how to do it correctly. No, 100% of Bio Armor characters have a taunt and a damage aura. Stalkers and Sents exist. Also you have to actually select both the taunt and damage aura on a character to *have* them and since Genetic Contamination is at earliest a level 22 skill, leveling Bios won't have it until then. And don't think you get off by using a "~", if 2/5 of the Bio users don't have a taunt and damage aura, that isn't anywhere near 100%.

47 minutes ago, aethereal said:

For sure! You said, "It's not a coincidence, it's by design," where the antecedent of "it" was "scrapper damage auras don't taunt."

The wrong part is suggesting that there is a design principle for scrapper damage auras not to taunt. As we both agree, they don't (besides Bio), but it's not a design principle.

That's easy. Scrappers were designed to be less capable tanks than Brute and Tankers. Just like their regular attacks don't taunt, neither do their damage auras. It *IS* a design principle.

I never made any argument about an absence of taunt on Scrappers therefore we are not in agreement unless you're attempting to concede your argument against what I initially said.

51 minutes ago, aethereal said:

Quoted above.

Try again.

53 minutes ago, aethereal said:

Taunt auras are one-per-set. You don't get separate multiple taunts in any set in the game.

Are you sure about that?

March 7

41 minutes ago, Uun said:

Brute/tank damage auras also require a tohit check for the damage component. The taunt component is autohit, as it is for all taunt auras, whether damaging or not and regardless of AT. It's the taunt aura that draws foes in and keeps them close to you, not the damage aura. Scrapper taunt auras work exactly the same way as brute/tank taunt auras, with the only difference that they're mag 3 instead of mag 4. I've played Invulnerability on a scrapper since 2004 and have no issue standing in the middle of hoards of enemies. (I also do this on Rad and Shield armor scrappers.)

Nobody is trying to one-up you. You made blanket statements about how ATs are designed and what their roles are. Just because you say it doesn't make it so. You keep on conflating damage auras with aggro control when they have nothing to do with it. Taunt auras control aggro, whether they're on a scrapper, brute or tank.

I appreciate you backing my point. Although the prospect that the taunt portion is autohit escapes me, I never said the damage taunts.

I will quote myself *again* because in all your years of playing CoH, you don't see to want to read:

"Scrappers give up a slight ST advantage to get higher overall DPS via AoE and strong ST with crits but it doesn't get taunt in its damage auras + it has less defensiveness to be able to stick around in hoards of enemies to do the AoEs."

"I know that Scrappers have buff/debuff auras that have a taunt element...that's why my initial post specifically said "damage auras". The post was describing the differences between the ATs' sets, i.e. why Tankers get some extra range on their AoEs."

"They are. I literally just described the distinguishing factors between them."

"They designed it so that Scrapper's aptitude for aggro is less than either Brute or Tanker. It's reflected in lack of punchvoke, weaker taunt in buff/debuff auras, single target Confront vs AoE Taunt and no taunt in damage auras."

"It's just a fact, just like it's a fact that Scrapper damage auras just do more base damage. Exceptions can also exist while a fact is true, like damage auras cannot crit, the exception is Quills but that doesn't alter the fact that damage auras aren't designed to crit...or taunt for Scrappers."

Couple that with your post just now that "Brute/tank damage auras also require a tohit check for the damage component. The taunt component is autohit", that's literally describing what my original post said as I re-quoted for you because you can't read. So not only do Tanker get taunt in their damage auras while Scrappers do not, but apparently the taunt is also auto-hit.

As for laser focusing on the ToHit part, I mostly brought that up to indicate damage (the first part of the damage aura), not specifically that damage taunts. We all know that powers in CoH are compartmentalized for the individual effects, so for a power to taunt, it has to have taunt in the power, same for if it buffs the user, it has to have that component in the power or if it interacts with an inherent ability, it has to have the inherent ability *IN* the power. The statement said "damage auras for Scrappers don't taunt" because the devs designed it not to and that is the literal statement I made AND outlined BECAUSE I'm pointing to the DIFFERENCES that were DESIGNED into the powers.

Do you honestly think you're going to swat your ruler on the white-board of how many raids you've done and that matters? The only reason I mentioned having the discussion about Gauntlet Changes in the past is because it's actually relevant to the discussion.

March 6

FYI, the main reason I even responded to the OP is because it brought back memories of long debates about needed differences between the melee ATs. While I was making the argument (back then before the new Gauntlet changes) to help Tankers, all these aspects (range, number of targets, survivability, ST and AoE DPS, role, power fantasy, etc etc) were all things I argued and compared and explained many many times while debating the other suggested changes. Basically, I've had these statements and points already. I'm not uninformed about stuff like Bio has a damage aura *and* a taunt aura or that Quills is a melee set.

So far, you're not really informing me of anything I don't already know. If I said something incorrect, I don't mind being corrected, but if all this is some torrid attempt at one-upsmanship, just say so so I don't have to reply to this thread again. That, or at least point to something I actually got wrong so that I can at least get that clarified and move on.

March 6

48 minutes ago, aethereal said:

This is a distinction without a difference. Bio has a damage aura and a taunt aura. It doesn't matter if they're in the same power or not.

Nor do you need multiple taunts in one armor set.

It's really important for people to understand that sets are balaned as sets, not as powers.

That's a foolish outlook.

Especially considering many powers cross ATs outside of powersets.

But go ahead and save face.

51 minutes ago, aethereal said:

Because that's what you said that was wrong, or at least somewhat wrong. I'm not arguing with you about, for example, "Tanks get Taunt and not Confront" because, you know... you're right!

Quote what I said that was wrong. I'll wait.

Also, no one was making the statement that tanks get taunt and not confront.

52 minutes ago, aethereal said:

It is a fact that Scrappers have only one armor set that has both a taunt aura and a damage aura. Which I agreed with, and said, in my original message, was a useful thing to note!

Agreed with who?

54 minutes ago, aethereal said:

But things like, "Under what circumstances do Scrappers get taunt auras" are interesting things to know about the game, and I don't think that you're correctly presenting the way the design works here.

I repeat, quote where I'm misrepresenting how something was designed.

56 minutes ago, aethereal said:

You decided to spend a lot of time telling me what I should or should not say, and didn't really seem to spend a lot of time actually thinking about what I did say.

Think about the term "buff aura." What's a "buff aura"? There are all kinds of Scrapper sets that get toggles that buff the scrapper -- that's so unexceptional that we don't even have a name for it. Look at the Stalker version of Invincibility: it's a toggle that gives the Stalker +to-hit and +defense. Nice, simple, straightforward power.

For something to be a buff "aura," it pretty much has to be a scaling power, because you don't need to count enemies in range of a buff power unless you're giving a scaling benefit.

"Debuff auras" are different, and indeed Scrappers get plenty of debuff auras that don't come with taunt. Cloak of Fear in Dark Armor debuffs to-hit. Lightning Field gives end-drain. Mud Pots slows. Chilling Embrace gives slow and -damage. But none of those offer a scaling bonus to the scrapper.

No, you decided to correct something that I didn't say and I was correcting you of what I *actually* said and the intent and context of what I said.

I don't really mind you adding more information or context to the discussion, but I'd appreciate you not putting words in my mouth or attributing things to what I said or meant when I in fact did not. There's a term for that, I believe it's called a Strawman.

1 hour ago, aethereal said:

There could be various design reasons why some Scrappers get taunts, but there aren't! There's one. It's about whether that armor set as a whole gets scaling benefits from close enemies. It's not about debuffs, and relevantly, it's not about damage auras.

I just double checked; no where in my initial post did I say "armor set" or even "sets" at all. I only spoke of damage auras in the context that they aren't aggro tools for Scrappers. Perhaps you still don't really grasp why I brought up damage auras in the first place? To describe it again, the basic function of them is just free damage that doesn't require a cast time that constantly ticks while you use other attacks. Since the topic revolves around AoE radius of attacks, damage auras are effectively attacks in that regards and a good way to deal max damage with AoEs is some means of control to pull them in and keep them in (i.e. taunt). While my original post did talk about survivability in the context of staying inside a crowd of foes, the focus was on saturating AoEs as a boon for Tankers (because their AoEs are slightly bigger).

45 minutes ago, Uun said:

Quills is in a scrapper primary, not an armor set.

NONE of the scrapper taunt auras require a tohit check. They are all autohit.

1. I know, but Quills functions as a damage aura.

2. Reading comprehension. Damage powers require a ToHit check, which damage auras are damaging powers, thus they don't voke naturally.

March 6

3 hours ago, aethereal said:

It more-or-less just happens that the damage aura armor sets (besides Bio) do not have a "scaling bonus based on number of nearby enemies" mechanic. This isn't really a design principle per se, though you can make the case that armors only get a certain number of goodies, and a damage aura counts as a "goodie" and so does a scaling bonus, so they do sort of push against each other that way. But, also, it is clearly the case that this isn't an inviolable principle: Bio exists.

You keep saying "Besides Bio". Did I miss some change? Genetic Contamination is the toxic PBAoE damage aura and it does not have taunt in it for Scrapper. Evolving Armor does have a taunt but it does no damage. Parasitic Aura is a unique power compared to other sets and as far as I recall, it doesn't taunt for any AT. Bio falls within the same conventions for damage auras.

I'm not even sure why any of you are so laser focused on that particular statement. It's just a fact, just like it's a fact that Scrapper damage auras just do more base damage. Exceptions can also exist while a fact is true, like damage auras cannot crit, the exception is Quills but that doesn't alter the fact that damage auras aren't designed to crit...or taunt for Scrappers.

Ultimately, highlighting the differences of these similar sets across ATs goes hand-in-hand with why Tankers' sets get a boost in AoE range for some attacks, because they are designed to be different for the ATs that use them.

3 hours ago, aethereal said:

I'll also note that your characterization of Scrapper taunt auras as "debuff auras" is slightly incorrect: Invincibility has no debuff component and is nevertheless a taunt aura.

I said buff/debuff auras. Even if I failed to put both in some of my sentences, it behooves you to not nitpick and give posters the benefit of the doubt, especially if they're repeating themselves.

35 minutes ago, aethereal said:

I totally missed the scaling recharge buff! Thanks for calling it out.

This is again to the main point: Scrappers get taunt auras when their armor set is such that it's actively beneficial for enemies to stick close to them -- not just that the enemies' effectiveness is lower (as when their damage or to-hit is debuffed), but where you get a benefit against other enemies if this enemy stays close to you.

There could be various design reasons why the buff/debuff auras that Scrapper has gets taunt in them. The overarching convention, however, is if it requires a ToHit check, it probably won't voke for Scrapper. This isn't the case for Tankers and Brutes. I'd agree, it helps the non-damage auras do their jobs to scale with enemies, but I'm personally not making the point of why Scrappers get taunt in those, I'm moreso talking about why they don't get them in damage auras.

March 6

2 hours ago, aethereal said:

I think Naraka's framing of the point is a little strange, but it seems valid to say, "Scrappers generally don't get both a taunt aura and a damage aura in their armor, with bio as the lone exception."

I take Uun's point to be that that's somewhat coincidental: there was no design principle that forbade scrappers from having damage and taunt auras, it's just how it worked out.

But, bio aside, it did work out that way.

It's not a coincidence, it's by design. They designed it so that Scrapper's aptitude for aggro is less than either Brute or Tanker. It's reflected in lack of punchvoke, weaker taunt in buff/debuff auras, single target Confront vs AoE Taunt and no taunt in damage auras.

The reason I even mentioned taunt in damage auras is primarily for the stickiness of the effect so you can capitalize on those AoEs. In solo play, it's not as big of a deal, but in team play, this can make it harder to fully saturate AoEs in various team set-ups, which is the crux of the point: aggro-hogs can get better use of certain AoEs and Tanker gets range on said AoEs. Some might call that "synergy". It's a synergistic buff to Tanker damage that doesn't step on the toes of other melee AT's niche.

March 5

3 hours ago, Uun said:

Damage auras aren't a distinguishing factor.

They are. I literally just described the distinguishing factors between them.

March 5

11 hours ago, Uun said:

Of those 6 sets, only Bio has a damage aura (although it's a different power). Those sets don't have damage auras on brutes or tanks either. You're correct that the other 5 sets with damage auras don't have taunt auras on scrappers. My point is that there are options for taunt auras on scrappers.

I know that Scrappers have buff/debuff auras that have a taunt element...that's why my initial post specifically said "damage auras". The post was describing the differences between the ATs' sets, i.e. why Tankers get some extra range on their AoEs.

March 4

On 3/2/2025 at 12:35 PM, Uun said:

6 of the 14 scrapper secondaries have taunt auras (Bio, Energy, Invulnerability, Radiation, Shield, Willpower).

Are those taunt auras also damage auras?

March 2

Ah man, I remember discussing buffs for Tankers to make them relevant way before the gauntlet changes. The reason I suggested giving Tankers bigger AoEs was so they could skip picking up taunt (if they wanted to) and just use their AoEs as well as giving them the benefit of not needing to reposition once they got that aggro. It's an indirect damage buff to AoEs *IF* you hit more foes.

Another point I outlined is it's a scale of AoE to ST effectiveness. It goes Tanker >> Brute >> Scrapper >> Stalker.

Stalkers often get the short end of the stick by outright lacking AoEs in their offensive and defensive pools but they get a boost in ST damage thanks to the effectiveness of Assassin's Strike + Assassin's Focus. Scrappers give up a slight ST advantage to get higher overall DPS via AoE and strong ST with crits but it doesn't get taunt in its damage auras + it has less defensiveness to be able to stick around in hoards of enemies to do the AoEs. Brutes are next, putting conditions on their peak damage and giving them high caps + taunt meaning they can stick around in hoards easier and get benefit for more damage but the build-up and drop off of fury when you're only dealing with 1 foe means the ramp up will always hinder burst. Finally, Tanker has the lowest damage, both ST and AoE, but they gain a simple advantage with slightly higher AoE DPS and ease of attracting and staying in crowds. Once those crowds are gone and you're dealing with a single strong foe, you've only got the -res and defense.

Ultimately, the buff was multifaceted, but I always argued it was to help differentiate each melee AT's melee powerset. Stalker's sets vary and have their strengths and weaknesses but that's what makes Stalker fun. Same with all the other AT's sets. Embrace those differences and select which you want to use with those differences in mind.

February 19

Complaining about LotG is like complaining about soft-capped defense. It's all old news. Players gonna min/max, even if it makes the game play the same.

No point in fixating on what others do. Imposing challenges or limitations on yourself is another option over just aiming to max out the notoriety of the missions.

February 13

On 2/11/2025 at 12:12 AM, Hjarki said:

Debuffs intended to protect players aren't really all that useful - even on Defenders. In general, the more you need them, the less effective they become. That -5% hit or -8% damage is fine against even con minions. Against a four star AV/GM? They might as well not even exist.

Status effects, on the other hand, can be useful. Stone Melee is arguably a better Control set than actual Control sets, with an easily stackable AE Disorient and Mag 4 ST Hold.

And, of course, the status effect all Tankers have: Taunt.

That's pretty much covered in the 1st paragraph of the OP. It's mostly for challenge and personal enjoyment.

After building your 327th def capped character, a nice dose of variety is often the only thing that keeps the game interesting.

February 10

You could also do a sapper using Ice or Electric armor and Mu and focus on draining END bars instead of HP. Make it a game to sap their endurance before the team can finish them off. With the melee, you can kinda pick whatever like picking up psi or ice to hinder foe rech more, stone, mace or SS if you want to control, etc.

January 25

I would have said Kinetic Melee/Fiery. We all know the racecar noises from Kinetic Melee would be perfect.

January 19

4 hours ago, Octogoat said:

WM stalker is just bane spider

All the more reason they should have put it in the game a long time ago.

January 19

4 hours ago, Frosticus said:

Axe looks like the easiest port to me.

AS for swoop

Placate for taunt

I've been waiting for Battle Axe for forever. Assassin's Guillotine. It just makes sense.

Since BA and WM are similar, 2 birds with one beheading.

January 18

Curious when they'll ever get around to adding a new Stalker set. I don't even remember the last one they added, I think Stone Melee?...

If they did introduce a new existing set for Stalker, which would you want first? Super Strength? Titan Weapons? War Mace?

I think the easiest would likely be War Mace and Battle Axe which I'd welcome. However, I've always been annoyed that Titan Weapons wasn't made an option for Stalkers. Just make it a giant scythe and it'll be golden. I wouldn't even mind if they made some of the activations slower, just keep the momentum feature intact and our crit-control and it'd be more than amazing.

July 20, 2022

3 minutes ago, biostem said:

But in a way, you agreed to not infringe by signing up/creating an account for Homecoming. Their reason for having that policy in place is not your concern - you agreed to it by joining, so you are bound to it.

Then report me.

4 minutes ago, biostem said:

When you attack the person instead of the argument, you have basically lost the argument. I don't think people are saying to harass the person with the infringing name - only to report them and move on. The policy against infringing has been and continues to be in place. Report, then move along. At the same time, if you are the one with said infringing name/character, you have no leg to stand on with regard to getting generic'd.

So having an opinion is attacking? If having a chuckle at our sharing a sideways inoffensive joke is going after someone's person but going after someone's creative faculties (in this thread, btw) isn't an attack, then we truly are lost.

But with all that said, my main point from the get go is, if you're making copy characters for fun, by all means, come at the situation knowing someone will likely report you. Just have fun with it. I just found it funny that the justification most will use to report you is lack of creativity on top of copyright infringement.

July 20, 2022

11 minutes ago, biostem said:

I'm curious - have you ever created your own intellectual property, and if so, do you have any interest in actually being able to control/own it? If not, then carry on and I hope you never run up against anyone who actually would prosecute you, should you infringe upon theirs.

You seem pretty defensive about this.

Cease and desist are usually the first course of action but ultimately, it's going to hinge on a case by case. If I create an intellectual property that someone decides to make a shirt for themselves, is different from making and selling the shirt for a profit or to promote their own brand.

Considering we're talking about playing a private server game for no profit (I hope), I'd gauge the severity on the low scale.

17 minutes ago, biostem said:

And yet here you are, doing just that. But you know what *is* an actual way to stretch your creativity - create an homage to an existing character without flat-out copying them.

Are you arguing that it's ok to infringe on other people's intellectual property if the ability to do so exists? Just because you *can* do something doesn't mean you should. There is a pretty distinct difference between a "Karen", (which I define as a person trying to enforce rules that either don't exist, or that they don't have the authority to do), and simply reporting someone who is violating a rule to the proper authorities, and letting them handle it...

A Karen will be the type to enforce rules that are minor and does so by hounding people in an obnoxious way. Easy example: when masking was "required" and it took violating 6ft social distancing to hound those people.

I frankly don't care if you create a homage character or a copy or a unique character. It's not my job to police if people are following their Ps and Qs unless someone is actually possible being harmed. If it turns out more outside entities are pursuing legal action against HC or other servers for creating copy characters (those that are too loud about their copy character will eventually get generic'ed so there's that avenue too) then maybe I would be more concerned. I just don't believe there are as many eyes on or fucks for CoH anymore.

July 20, 2022

20 minutes ago, Oubliette_Red said:

I'm fairly certain that the Karen Badge belongs to the ones that show up in the forums throwing a hissy fit after their character's get gen'd.

They both can be.

The existence of one doesn't nullify the other.

July 20, 2022

I find this reaction kind of funny.

I'm not going to tell you how to react to violations and what not, and better safe than sorry or whatever (I'm not running the site so it's not like I suffer for and consequences or am forced into extra labor to fix these issues)... But it's a common enough exercise to try to make characters resemble other characters. Again, it's part exercise and part just having fun.

You'll see it in GW2, FF14, heck even Soul Calibur. I've even made some myself that I still play lol. As character creators of games get better with more options, what do you think people would do? But yeah, I'm not going to stop you from donning your Karen badge.

July 19, 2022

12 hours ago, Nemu said:

I don't understand this vehement opposition to having the toggle option as the OP suggested.

Those that want their KB can leave it off, slot KB sets into your powers to enhance your kb, go wild.

Those that don't want KB can turn the KD toggle on

Those that don't want KB in select powers can leave it off and slot the kb>kd converter into those powers like Explosive Blast or Nova.

Absolutely nothing is being taken away from anyone. Everyone wins.

This is no more than yet another QoL change, and we've had plenty of those implemented over the years, toggle suppression being the latest.

What I see is a bunch of old guards set in their ways unable to entertain the idea with an open mind. I get it. I feel the same kind of gnawing dissatisfaction every time I see a pure ranged hover blaster build that skips all the melee attacks while having a melee heavy secondary.

I think to myself "How dare you sully this AT with such a build, go back to playing sentinels or lol Melee ATs because you are obviously unfit to play blasters!" Perhaps that's the same kind of feeling some of the vocal opponents against this suggestion have. They've worked to make KB work for them and maybe they feel that the toggle cheapens their accomplishment? I can sympathize with that.

But you know what? If others want to build and play that way it's fine, it's not my business and it doesn't take away my ability to build and play my characters the way I want. Everyone gets what they want.

To be frank, you don't deserve a KB to KD toggle...

July 16, 2022

40 minutes ago, Vanden said:

Exactly as indestructible as they already are?

Maybe they meant they aren't fully aware how indestructible the can be now because they don't play incarnate content (like myself).

July 16, 2022

19 hours ago, golstat2003 said:

And I disagree. A power like that being able to buff an entire league is ludicrous. I think that is a major problem with that power. If I were changing farsight that’s the first thing I would change. I would also reduce what power boost does to it in some way. Whether it affects the cater or not is less of an issue imo. But we can all agree to disagree.

Is affecting an entire league that big a deal? How often do you even run in leagues? And how often do you not have such a saturation of buffs that you'd probably hit caps by just sneezing.

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Posts posted by Naraka