No Gods No Kings
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Posts posted by No Gods No Kings
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I have one of these up to 42. It is pretty flimsy until you get your Tier 9, which is amazing. In fact it is probably the best Tier 9 in the armor sets. You wont be as sturdy as some most of the time but for 30 seconds you will be almost tank levels of sturdy . Only thing is EM doesn't help you clear large spawns quickly, so bring back up.
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On 10/5/2021 at 5:42 PM, Without_Pause said:
I looked into some numbers. StJ should be high due to its animation and recharge times for building fury, and it has a heavy hitter as compared to Savage even though Savage has more AoE. Psionic is interesting in that is a slower animation time set, but not terribly so. The advantage to it is getting Insight since that adds DoT to its attacks. The downside is Insight. My fix just feels like "Anything but that." The closest thing I got is having a toggle which adds the DoT so it is like a damage aura, but different. I rolled a Psi brute today and got it to 8. I'll see how it goes as it levels. When I had Insight and could get some attacks in with it, that felt great. I went /dark to offer additional non-psy damage for those times when it is needed. Kinetic is better off for a Scrapper or Tank since they don't need to worry about building fury. Animation and recharge times hurt it. The only benefit here and it isn't exclusive to Brutes is the -DMG being used with armor sets. Animation times on WM aren't special and those recharges are long. I tapped out on a build which offered +recharge in the armor and still couldn't deal with it. Crowd Control is a beautiful thing though.
I'm willing to amend any list I make with new info. In Truth I didn't really take into accounts all the set, Stone made it in purely on the fact that you cant make one as a scrapper.
I did forget that Psy does DOT but I don't have much numbers on it. Does it benefit from fury if so it should go in about the same place as Savage. I love WM.. on something else. Let me know if you have suggestions on the others.
STJ its fast animating decent AOE.
Claws is actually really good fast animating low base damage lots of AOEs.
Ice I don't have experience with Ice but this should be a pretty good Primary as well lots of DOTs for damage.
Fire should be as good as Ice but... bleh. Anyone got good reps on Fire?
Not sure about Staff.
As Far as far as secondaries only one I think is terrible is Ice.
Primaries
S Tier - Rad, Spines
A Tier- Savage, Super Strength, Street Justice, Claws, Ice
B Tier- Stone, Fire, Dual Blades
C Tier - Warmace (Sword, Axe), Electric Melee
D Tier- Titan Weapons
Secondary
S Tier - Electric, Dark, Fire
A Tier- Bio, Rad, Shield, Stone
B Tier - Super Reflexes, Invulnerability, Energy Aura, Will power
C Tier-
D Tier- Ice Armor
F Tier- Regen
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11 hours ago, aethereal said:
An unslotted /elec brute with all the defensive powers except the T9 activated would have:
26.25% S/L resist
61.875% E resist
22.5% N resist
26.25% F/C resist
26.25% P resist
0% T resist
An unslotted /fire brute with all the defensive powers activated would have:
22.5% S/L resist
22.5% E/N resist
67.5% F resist
15% C resist
0% P resist
15%+ T resist depending on how many times you can stack Healing Flames
So Fiery Aura provides generally slightly lower resists than Elec (3.75% less S/L, and 3.75% lower E/N than Elec gives to F/C). It's not a huge difference, but it's noticeable. In turn, I think that Fire gives better offense than Elec.
Ok fair point in total resists. Though I don't know how noticeable 3.75 is, though I suspect the bigger hole Electric covers is the Psychic as it seems to be more common than toxic and energy is more common than fire.
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11 hours ago, Haijinx said:
It is kind of squishy, but you burn stuff down so fast that it doesn't seem like it.
Plus if you go down you can always Nuke them when you rez.
What do you think is squishy about it?
Its not particularly tough like say Invul or Stone, but it falls pretty much in line with the others. Like Electricity Solid Resists, no defenses, healing and end management. Ones I would consider a bit squishy are bio or energy or regen or something in that vein or just anything that doesn't hit damage caps and are susceptible to a big hit from a common damage source.
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7 hours ago, Uun said:
Footnote to the primaries list - Stone Melee isn't available to scrappers.
You are right about that I'm going to edit my list maybe it goes with Savage.
5 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:I'm guessin it's the normal +damage is more beneficial to scrappers and tanks since, especially in your case, the +dam from offensive mode is drowned out by fury and rage. You're not getting nearly the same usefulness from it. However, a brute can say screw that, and run in defensive mode, be tougher by far than the scrapper and fury/rage will counter the -damage quite well.
Yeah it is kind of making me think I would put Bio higher, Toggle Damage Aura, I sort of of forgot about SS I might go back and add it to the list.
3 hours ago, aethereal said:Scrappers and Brutes are too close to each other.
It's really hard to find a stable equilibrium where they both have a role. For a long time, brutes were just a little better than scrappers, such that there was little point to playing a scrapper. Now scrappers are a little better than brutes, and it's hard to justify playing a brute.
In both cases, it's not that the dominant AT was a lot better, it's that when the ATs are so similar, even a small imbalance becomes, "Well, there's no real point in playing the other one."
Scrappers are also probably a little better than stalkers, but stalkers are better-differentiated from scrappers, so there's less pressure to just never play stalkers.
Right now, I'll consider Brutes if I want a resistance-based armor on a DPS character.
I struggled with Bio cause Fire, Elec, Dark, are just clearly tougher on a Brute, yet Bio is otherwise as good as it gets but I didn't take into account that you could run Defensive mode as I am always in damage mode.
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11 hours ago, DreadShinobi said:
@No Gods No Kings fiery aura with rad spines or savage are all fine choices. I have a spines/fire built for fire farming but my main with over 1500 badges is my rad/fire brute. Fiery aura can often get stuck with having incorrect misconceptions that it performs poorly outside of fire farming. If the character is built for fire farming it certainly can but with a general purpose build it is great at handling all content 1-50 including tanking master badge runs and incarnate trials.
Bio armor and Shield are imo better picks for scrappers and tankers and SR better on tankers. Your S tier armor choices are all great on brutes - but only fiery aura has burn. 🔥
Yeah I had the misconception that Fire Aura was squishy it is anything but and healing flames give you click Toxic resist so in the early game a fire Tank is pretty good vs Vaz.
Bio and Shield are debatable, I don't think that they don't put themselves as far out ahead but the have mechanisms that allow you to get a small but noticeable survivability bump. With AOE damage being overall lower than Single target damage the smaller scale favors the Brutes. Bio might actually be in S Tier, I forgot it does have a damage toggle aura, though the defenses themselves are not noticeably better than the scrapper version.
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So after looking at the sets these are my subjective picks. My criteria for the armor set is that they should easily allow you to get over the scrapper resist caps in someway the other is that they need to either have a damage aura or they need a damaging area attack. This list is just what I think is the most "brutish" Tougher than a scrapper and pumps out more damage. Once again this is not how good the armors are in the game, but how much I think they distinguish brutes from scrappers or Tankers.
Primaries
S Tier - Rad, Spines
A Tier- Savage, Stone, Super Strength
Secondary
S Tier - Electric, Dark, Fire
A Tier- Bio, Rad, Shield
B Tier - Super Reflexes,
Rad and Spines have damage auras which help bridge the damage gap a bit to scrappers, savage has low damage but good DOTs which favor Brutes. Stier Armors all have toggle damage auras. Fire and electric kind of pulls into the lead cause they go to the tanker Cap pretty easily. Bio's defense and resists numbers are better on the brute and the more you chase HP the greater the separation between Brute and scrapper. Rad is a lot like Bio, and Shield is just overall awesome and one with the shield lets you hit those tanker cap numbers, and shield charge gives even more damage. SR I'm not sure belongs but if you slot for resistance the scaling can take you past the Scrapper caps but.. meh.
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Ok So here is my build for Sandviper.
So I like to have fun with all the controls and fun stuff that dark does so I took pretty much everything and still came out pretty good. Also with the amount of -tohit you will be doing its like softcapping.
The whole build should run about 500 Mill give or take.
I took Touch of fear. Personally I love the power. It recharges quick it is AOE and can carry a variety of procs. If you are fighting a group it is a lot better than hitting shadow punch. Also I slotted it for knockdown so it adds some mitigation.
The way Cloak of fear is slotted with Gloom combined with Musculature, and Control Hybrid is incredibly fun. You are stunning and immobilizing everything and I mean everything. And doing psychic damage.
It actually isn't a huge end hog thanks to all the +end procs, but you always have conserve power if you want it and ageless to bail you out and to shore up your vulnerability to recharge debuff.
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Dark/ Dark is a beautiful set I have both a tanker and a brute... how much you willing to spend? 😅
500 Million gets you a pretty fun set.
Also are you looking to be as tough as possible? Or do you wanna have some fun?
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1 hour ago, ZemX said:
The thing that jumps out at me is the 15 click powers. FA is already an active primary, secondaries always are, and you've added three more click powers in the pools.
You sure you won't have trouble deciding which button to push next? 🤪
I mean, otherwise looks like fun. Maybe consider dropping Lightning Clap for Hasten? I know you've got another FF:Rech in there and it's a bit of damage mitigation but if you're using it, you're not doing damage, which I thought was the point of this. You want to be using TS as often as possible for its +res and FF:Rech procs and you've got plenty of other AoEs to cycle that it looks like LC would only be dropping your overall DPS if you use it.
Lol yeah it is a few then add Incarnates on top of it and I'm going to quite busy.
Yeah I would love to pick up hasten but I'm maxed out pool powers, the only thing I think I could sacrifice is Combat maneuvers but I'm getting good mileage out of it defenseively.
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Hey so messing around with Mids when I was supposed to be working and I decided I wanted to take advantage of the tanker AOE abilities and see if I could narrow the game some between a Tanker and Brute in terms of damage. I think it was pretty good. Looking for feed back. The most that jumps out to me is a way to squeezing hasten to make him a real turbo charger, but I couldn't swing it. Did I make any obvious mistakes or a few small ones, or does it look as good to you as to me?
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3 hours ago, roleki said:
Out on the street, going door-to-door with a group, I'd take a Scrapper over a Brute, because in theory you'll have team buffs out the wazoo that mask over the inferior survival stats and amp up your damage output. Out on a pylon or some other single target benchmark, I'd go with a Scrapper over a Brute, because for linear damage, a Scrapper will *usually* chunk out more DPS than a similarly-equipped Brute, due in no small part that the Brute ATOs are absolutely shitty, while the Scrapper ATOs are among the best in the game.
But if I'm farming, I'll take a /fire Brute over any combo of anything slotted however you want it. Ten seconds into a farm, a Brute runs at 200% damage before any inspirations come into the equation and it just builds from there. With the higher resist caps, Brutes rarely have to fire off any survival powers in a farm, meaning every (or, close to every) click is damage output.
Insofar as farming goes, you could say pretty much the same thing about a Tank these days, with their AoEs and damage modifiers being what they are now, and in fact a Tank WILL hang with a Brute (and in some cases, out-perform a Brute) if the map is short enough, but longer/bigger farm maps, the Brute always pulls away because of Fury.
All that said, if you want to join PuGs, TFs, farm, do pylons and all that with just one character, a Scrapper or a Tank will likely suit you better because their performance isn't tied so heavily to a mechanic that only reaches its potential when there is an endless supply of nerds nearby. A Brute at 40% Fury might as well be a Sentinel.
Well put, I think the cross proliferation of ATs maybe hurt brutes a little, in terms of uniqueness. I have 2 brutes for farming they are still clear kings of that world.
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55 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:
The raw values of the secondary armor set powers do not change between Brutes and Scrappers though Brutes will have more health and of course there is fury. So they probably are in a better position in the early part of the game. But a few hours of just regular play will take you out of those levels. What holds my attention is the idea of a planned build unfolding and coming together so regardless of AT I am likely to make it to at least level 30, particularly if I can feel them ramping to my hoped potential through their teens and 20s.
As a project, I am trying to make a, "The <fill in AT name" roster of characters for myself. So, "The Brute", "The Scrapper", "The Blaster" and so on. Not the only character of the AT I would play but the one that brings me that special joy in how well they work. I was dithering over two Scrapper builds and finally got around to using the Test Server to test builds without investing in fully levelling and IO'ing them out to find out if they worked as expected. But I have both characters sitting in the mid-30s due to seeing them progress in effectiveness as described above. The StJ/Nin I made was crazily effective with me starting testing at +2x4, moving to +3x6 when that did not prove to be a problem, then moving to +4x8 when +3x6 proved not to be a problem. That is with no incarnate powers and no purple, superior, or Winter IOs. His area damage is lacking compared to the character currently filling The Brute slot (my SS/Bio brute who adds Cross Punch and Stalagmites to Foot Stomp ) but the single target damage...OMGWTFBBQsauce!
Same.
The Stalker for me is Elec/SD. Its good on other toons but AS closes the ST damage hole nicely and with Neither Shield charge nor Lighting Rod breakign concealment, on the Stalker it is entirely its own beast.
I'm trying to figure what that is on a brute. I think Rad melee is the quinetessinatal brute, but I honesty don't like it so maybe savage. Think the Brute armors is Rad or Bio.
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1 hour ago, Without_Pause said:
I would personally like a Savage/wp, but I would pick something like /elec which offers a heal and +recharge. /elec has end recovery, but Savage is lighter on end usage. Not saying /elec is better than /wp. My main here is a Claws/wp brute. I'm just saying as a brute stacked +recharge will be fun, see Savage/rad.
Also I imagine that /elec benefits more from Savage +recharge since it has click heal and endurance powers.
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14 hours ago, Ukase said:
Simply put: Fury is more consistent than a critical hit.
Scrappers do NOT blow brutes out of the water. That is a fallacy. They may at times out dps a brute, but that's not consistent. You never know when you're gonna get a crit. But, a brute knows they're going to get fury. There is more to my stating that it's a fallacy than you might think.
Some may say that a scrapper out-performs a brute on a pylon test. I would counter with - "Oh? That pylon that doesn't run away?"
Play a fiery aura scrapper and you'll see what I mean. It's annoying. Pylon tests are only indicative of a scrapper's superior performance against a pylon. No more, no less. Additionally, some folks may be able to make the most out of a scrapper's build. I may not be one of those people. But I can make the most out of my brute's build. Ergo - for me, the brute is a superior choice. I mean, it's not even close. I'd pick a blaster over a scrapper, too. I'd pick a tank over a scrapper, too. They're that bad. (For me)
Brutes have higher HP than scrappers. Thus, they have higher regen. Brutes have an inherent taunt aura. Scrappers do not. Brutes do not need to chase foes. Scrappers do.
These are the reasons why I play a brute over a scrapper.
As for the best primary/secondary combo - for me, I really like the Spines/Rad brute. I love my spines/fire, but there's no defense debuff resistance, unless you consider Ageless. The spines is good primarily because of impale being a ranged attack, you can slot a set of winter-Os in there, as well as in ripper and throw spines, and lung or barb. That's all the winter-Os which help a lot with recovery & s/l defense. (some winter sets do great with fire defense - which is great for a fire farmer, but not really needed. But, either way, the spines primary allows for a purple set in each category except for holds - but you can cover that in your epic if you choose. This increases the ability to get high recharge which never hurts. Rad armor is a great set, imo, to chase recharge. The faster your recharge, the higher your damage and regen.That's actually a pretty good answer as far as fury being more consistent. I think maybe brutes excel in situations that are like brutes themselves. Somthing tough with moderate but consistent damage that will wear down a burst situation.
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Ok thanks all. What I'm taking away is I need to look at combo defenses like, Will Power, Bio to spread out the survivability gap between a brute and a scrapper, and when picking primary look for damage auras, dots eg: savage, spines, maybe fire?
I enjoy the class I was just curious what combos maybe play most to the Brute's strengths. Thinking maybe make a Savage/ Bio or Savage/ WP.
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24 minutes ago, Sovera said:
I feel that I can speak based on my recent experience leveling a Brute.
- You level a Brute because you want to do more damage than a Tanker. Not all builds are equal, but the last build I did broke a pylon one minute faster than the same build as a Tanker. And it also has much better burst because of that.
- You level a Brute because all secondaries have agro grabbing auras which is not the case for a Scrapper. This may seem like a minor thing until we get mobs running away constantly (if solo). It also may be a minor thing if only playing the secondaries that have agro auras (Rad, Bio, etc), but there is a reason so few Scrappers go for Fire Armor.
- You level a Brute because you want to do steady higher damage instead of relying on crits. Scrapper damage is great. When it crits. When it does it's not that amazing. Now crits happen when they care to happen. A crit out of the bat after a BU and it happens for an AoE? Serotonin to the brain baby! But that's not something that happens all the time. And sometimes it happens when we don't care for it such as the mob going to die anyway and a crit is overdamage.
Why is a Scrapper so much better damage then? Because our tests are of Damage Per Second instead of Burst Damage. And because of that the Scrapper evens out. In regular gameplay we don't deal with DPS. Instead we deal with Burst. We go in, we explode a spawn, then mop the remains, then repeat.
Scrappers are still great damage and still worth to look at in terms of pure damage dealers because their ATOs are amazing. Brutes... welp... Their ATOs stupendously suck. I would personally like one of the to be half strength of the Tanker ATO and the other half strength of the Scrapper (not in crits of course, but something like 'each point of Fury instead of giving 1% damage gives 1.10% damage'. Or whatever. I'm not a balance dev but you get the idea. Having an ATO that gives Fury and an ATO that gives regen and recovery is pretty close to useless.
In terms of defense yep, Tanker has much better numbers. But that's normal. A Scrapper does more damage but is squishy, a Tanker is sturdier but does less damage. The Brute is the middle version of both. We know this. Nothing has changed.
Edit: You also overstate how long it takes to reach full Fury. In my pylon test I got too full Fury in 10-15 seconds. This is not a good example because the pylon only hits every 5-6 seconds. We get Fury when we are swung at so in normal gameplay the first 10 seconds of a fight the Brute will be at full. Then it will degenerate between spawns, but the same patch that buffed Tankers also buffed both Fury generation and minimized Fury degeneration.
I agree with what you are saying about the scrapper sometimes having his crit be overkill, and that tends to be how the game goes most of the time. Which I think accentuates my question about brutes. It seems like they thrive best in some unnatural situation like a farm or pylon Test.
I actually have a Fire/MA based of you build so thanks for that lol. So question then is still what Primary/ Secondary set would you say plays most to the Brutes strength?
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8 minutes ago, DreadShinobi said:
The swing factor for me was the tanker patch.
Pre-tank patch - Fiery Aura is a great brute set
Post-tank patch - I pretend the archetype doesn't exist anymore.
The Brute is dead to you or the tanker?
16 minutes ago, Apparition said:Why a Brute? I've asked myself this question many times since the Issue 26, Page Four update.
Objectively:
1. You want to tank using the Energy Aura power set.
2. You don't want to play a Stalker nor tank, you hate runners, and you want to play an armor set that isn't Bio Armor, Invulnerability, or Shield Defense. Other armor sets either have a stronger taunt aura on Brutes compared to Scrappers, or have a taunt aura at all on Brutes compared to no taunt aura on Scrappers.
Other than that, in all other cases you are better off playing a Scrapper or Tanker, objectively.
Now just for funsies or for feel, those are different things.
Thanks that's just the kind of response I was looking for, I was tying to see if maybe there was some other way to look at it. Like what am I missing mechanically.
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Also for reference here is the brute I was working on, and I kept wondering why I don't just make it a scrapper?
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TLDR: What power combination makes Brutes standout from the other Melee Classes?
So I've been messing around with Brutes in Mids, and as I started to pay attention to the numbers I started feeling a little confused. What is the incentive to be a brute?
This isn't a knock on the class or anything, I have a couple Brutes and I enjoy playing them. I'm just not sure what incentives being a brute. Basically I like looking at ways to maximize the inherent advantages of of the AT.
Looking at damage, Scrappers burst damage blows brute out the water, and even Tankers will hit harder right out the gate. Brutes more damage than Tankers in the end but in practice on teams you will tend to split the aggro with another Tanker or Brute so while the amount of fury you get does put you ahead of the Tanker it doesn't put you much further ahead. Also the Tanker gets larger AOEs so they seem to come out ahead in that area. So if you want to do single target damage or AOE both seem like better options.
Another point for Tankers is that they don't have to invest so heavily in there defenses by chasing set bonuses, so they are free to pursue more competitive damage. Though ultimately the brute will out damage them in some areas.
Scrappers and Tankers have higher base damage so sets like Electric Melee, Shields, Bio seem to favor them
The next is damage mitigation. So this was really what drove me to make this post. I have a SR Brute and Tanker both, which are both fun, but unless you hit the resists cap you may as well roll a scrapper, they hit the same cap as the Tanker and Brute but come loaded with more damage, so again SD, SR, Ice (Scrapper version is way better than brute or tank) etc. Even bio a scrapper can get comparable levels of Health Regen, even though not as much resists. At first I looked at Energy Aura cause it was the one armor that Brutes had Tankers didn't but being a defense set it had comparable survival to scrapper, but was a lot less damaging.
Put another way my question is what is the Brutiest Brute Combination? What do Brutes do best, and what Primary/ Secondary combo would accenuate their strengths the most? Right now they sort of occur as sort of narrow Tankers.
I'm hoping for a different answer than "just play what you like" I already do that. I was wonder what some peoples idea of a quintessential brute is. Thank you.
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Why a Brute?
in Brute
Posted
Wow that's pretty interesting. I was looking at Ice melee and despite the DOTs for a brute I'm not finding it particularly damaging. Seems maybe fire melee with its secondary Dot effects might be a stronger choice.