R jobbus

does DoT on anything mess with procs from moves aside from the one that causes DoT? incinerate is slotted with S gauntleted fist, and the resist proc is in GFS but I didnt know if DoT could affect other moves like that

You know, this is fascinating stuff and I'll tell you why.... So against AVs in the fight, I do not use any AOE powers at all for these builds, as they tend to be lower single target damage and higher animation times. However, for War mace, the single target chain is pulverize (I think, the starter ability), clobber, then shatter.... Shatter is an aoe cone. So is that triggering this streak breaker thing potentially over and over again? Maybe increasing the chance of stuff hitting vs all single target moves being used in a chain? The Fire melee chain is GSF, incinerate, fire sword. I don't use FSC in AV fights, since it's a long animation with similar single target damage to gsf, I only do it maybe if ageless is 10 seconds away and the cooldowns are at their lowest. Honestly in a high-end extreme fight like this where a build is being pushed to it's limit, I could see something weird like this happening. The problem though is of course that the 2nd and third builds, both of which are fire melee, have the same single target chain and frankly the difference in their performance is noticable rather quickly.. But I do need to respec and check the third (more successful) FM build and just be ultra sure that it's not just FM's fault in general for this. but I highly doubt it, since I remember doing this before, and I also remember doing it with builds that have a similar/shorter recharge chains than GSF.. meaning their SMoT proc would have the same or less results. This is wild though, I never knew about this, though something tells me I could kinda 'sense' something weird going on..

Yea I just am not convinced it's just rng favoring the builds. The 2nd is noticably worse than the third build and it doesn't take very long to replicate it either, over and over. and as the fight goes on it just keeps happening. I'm starting to wonder if it's the active defense thing.. or something. One thing that I have noticed though is that it likely is directly related to negative resist.. Because once the autonictus dies (I always kill it first), then stuff is alot more doable for any of these builds. Maybe the 3% and GSF being slightly slower is enough negative resist to matter, i don't know. But if it was related to active defense, the only thing that is defense debuffing is rommy in the AV fight, correct? In regular groups of enemies, the 2nd build absolutely destroys them, noticably easier than the other builds at times.... so maybe it isn't defense debuffs. If it was defense debuffs, the build would be cascading really badly in groups of normal enemies. Part of the goal of having mega high defense builds like this was to be able to throw myself into 3-4 enemies buffed +4/x8 cimeroran spawns and just tank all 30~ people or whatever. The 2nd build does this. The 1st and 3rd ones do also, but I was just trying to get a bit more defense. But if it was defense debuffs.. all of that would be a problem, especially for the 2nd one, if that was the culprit for the AV fight. I really dont know. i'm just gonna test more. thank you for putting in the effort and giving me the numbers and all that, very cool stuff. but I'm not gonna know for sure until I do another round of testing. At least this will help me slot SD/MA and SD/Savage with a bit more insight, putting the SMoT proc into the longest base recharge move, probably axe kick for MA and i dont know what for savage. Whatever is next aside from the leap since it's recharge is too long.

fascinating stuff, thanks. but I'm not sure what to take from this. It's not all *that* different right. Especially since the third build I listed was fm and slotted closer to the original wm build, and it did better than the 2nd build of fm, which didn't perform well at all. But the proc rate of the 2nd and third builds, both of which are fm, their proc chances are the same, no? That's what confuses me. The only difference is 3% negative resistance (and a ton of defense on the 2nd one, which clearly didn't help it). So I don't know. I had not thought of this and that might definitely be a thing, I'll pay attention to it and see on the next round of testing. Surely the 2nd build's active defenses timer would be taking quite a bit longer. So maybe it's getting debuffed and eating damage. Thanks for pointing this out!

The AVs and cimerorans, most things in the ITF have knockdown protection, it rarely ever procs off of anything except vs minotaurs and cyclops that rage crash, or on isolated, non-grouped cimerorans, or on the council enemies. I mean it does work on regular cimeroran enemies but they almost always use their war cry/phalanx fighting thing, whatever it is that grants them protection, once they use that it hardly works much. In the AV fight it's a non factor essentially

Lol nice. yea that stun is nasty.. I've completed it on sd/war mace a few times but it's the inconsistency between builds that is strange to me. And doing it without abusing the aggro limit is also kind of the goal since the aggro limit seems super inconsistent, and subject to change. Like it feels like it has changed from before. Also I've experienced stuff like, I'll jetpack over to rommy, not hit literally anything, then pull rommy and his nictus will not follow him.. From behind the little chapel looking building on the right side. Just on that corner. So that's obviously super abusable but i'm hesitant to make it a standard in any build I play since i fear all that stuff is gonna be changed if it is exploited. Like I've tried the "old" method of using the aggro limit, where you run into a massive group in the middle and get everything, then attack a nictus without aoe damage and supposedly rommy and the other nictus will not harm you during this, letting you kill it while being at the aggro limit... but that does not/has never happened for me, this year. All that happens is that it instant aggros all of the AVs, and ive tested this multiple times on multiple builds... But again, what's the deal with being able to just fly over to rommy without killing anything in the stage, pulling him from behind the little building in the center, and he separates from the nictus? Everytime I fight the AV fight for testing I have to kill a minotaur on the left and whoever follows me so that his nictus will end up following him when I pull him from behind the chapel. I use darkest night to pull him too. I just don't get it. It's this kind of stuff where I am really hesitant to use the aggro limit cause it seems to be all over the place sometimes

Yeah. I mean it's not alot to add on, for sure. But again, I kind of *am* testing it since even with assault being equipped but not toggled (when on cooldown) the autohit nictus (and third nictus left alive after auto hit and the other dies) take hardly any damage at all, give or take. But it's good information. i'm not opposed to trying it, or really anything at this point. I'm just hesitant to make the AV fight start pushing 50 minutes or so, it already is around 40ish minutes solo under these conditions. Maybe less if I summon longbow radial for rommy when he's the last alive.

musculature core, I could take a look at others but basically what's going on is, the damage is already so tight on the solo AV fight under these conditions, I don't think I can sacrifice any damage at all. Already, when I don't have assault up the auto hit nictus takes very very slow damage. And when more than one AV is still alive, if a longbow lore is out they will randomly just insta-kill it. (The auto hit nictus especially) And longbow radial isn't anywhere near enough healing to actually keep it alive. I think it's like, 3 autohit nictus hits if not 2 that just deletes it under these conditions

Thanks for the response. Yea I might try out scorch. And yes, it's been extremely consistent - probably 4 fights per build, and the builds that I've tested for this are SD/War mace, SD/Fire melee, SD/ Martial arts, SD/battle axe, and sd/savage. Ageless is a must for this build, as nice as barrier would be. But again, that's the give and take of this. Shield probably demands ageless, cause while endurance isn't tight necessarily it does need it. But that's the exchange for being able to do challenges like this, since it's my belief that shield is probably the only tanker primary that is going to be able to solo enemies buffed ITFs at +4/x8, without abusing the aggro limit. SR is just simply not going to cut it against this kind of stuff, solo-wise, imo and in my experience. Next time I test things I'll do that just to get at look at it. Yea it's looking like the proc rate is the culprit.. but there was an sd/fm build, the third one that managed pretty well, so I just don't have any idea. The only difference between the third build and the 2nd ones is 3% energy/negative resist. so maybe in a very high level solo multiple AV fight, that much matters. Thank yall for the responses. What I'm going to do in my next run of testing is just respec and put the stacking resist proc from the AT origin set in the highest base recharge move possible on every secondary powerset, while trying to keep any resist numbers similar to the sd/wm build that worked. Edit: i may try throwing the stacking resist proc into firesword circle or something, since the recharge is alot higher. Just to see

Also just to add onto this discussion, I built a similar sd/martial arts build following the same build (the sd/fm build that didnt work), and even landing storm kick repeatedly (which supposedly gives quite a bit of defense, like 10% to a whole bunch of things) and it had the exact same result as sd/fm. It just got hit more often and took considerable damage. Which makes no sense. The sd/ma build should've had just absolutely insane defense at that point, so maybe stacking resist proc was in something too fast? but that shouldnt' affect the rate of being hit so I dont know.

SD/War Mace (Build that works for this): SD/Fire Melee (Build that did not work for this, had considerable trouble with the 4 AV fight and got hit quite a bit more. Way more): It is worth noting that SD/War Mace has a little less HP at the moment, the build is flexible enough to unslot some HP from true grit in order to move glad armor to it instead, opening up deflection for more melee defense for the other parts of the ITF, then just reslotting HP back in true grit for the AV fight, so that's probably why it looks that way, as I was testing it earlier and it works well. I know covering bases is always important when asking about these details but I do not think any enhancements would be accidentally the wrong piece, I've respec'd these builds so many times and I have always deleted all excess enhancements and check the pieces everytime before I do anything. Honestly, the only thing I can think of that is making the AV fight behave this way is the stacking resist proc from the archtype set. I do remember some times when I would just let my tanks sit there just to see what happened without doing their chain for absorb and stacking resist and they definitely would crumble if given enough time, noticeably more. but that doesn't have anything to do with the rate at which they are getting hit... and the differences in these aren't *that* drastic so I'm still skeptical. Is there something going on where global recharge increases proc rate? I thought the whole point of procs was that the higher the cooldown in general of a move, the higher the proc rate. The entire point of my slotting obliteration like in the 2nd build (SD/FM that struggled) was that I could drastically increase defense while still being able to take a recharge hit if it's chain can handle that (which it can) and also slightly increase any proc chances since great fire sword gains like 1 second of recharge when ageless is at 20~ seconds of cooldown left. But now i'm starting to think global recharge drastically affects proc rate, cause if not i dont know what's going on, literally. it's bizarre. That or clobber's proc rate is just insane for some reason. Like I said, after 5x lotg, armageddon, some other recharge and ageless core it's timer is still 6~ seconds when ageless is at like 11~ish seconds left. other than that, i dont know. Edit: I don't have the stats of the third build, the sd/fm build that ended up doing "ok" for the AV fight because I respec'd into the later build, but it was based off of the earlier sd/wm build and was probably literally identical to it stat wise

As the topic suggests, the testing I've been doing on enemies buffed ITF in the beta server is really inconclusive and I have no idea why. This build: Seems to tank to the stage 4 ITF at +4/x8 AV fight with nictus and rommy all together perfectly fine solo. It rarely ever dropped to what, maybe 60% health after the auto nictus died but other than that it stays very steady at 85%-100% health, most of the time, and it can complete the fight within 40ish minutes or so. This testing is without using -regen lores, but I probably would on rommy just to save time. But the summary is, this build is fine for this. Reminder, it's Shield Defense/War Mace solo, +4/x8 ITF, stage 4, Rommy+all nictus all together without any aggro limit abusing and the "enemies buffed" thing checked on the task force challenge menu. However, *this* build: ^This build, almost immediately drops to 50%-70% on the exact same fight. Then, as I am fighting in the same way under the exact same conditions as described above, Rommy will hit this build more consistently and do more damage to it, it cannot complete the fight comfortably. As the fight continues, the above build sinks below 50% and into the 25% -30% range where really it's just luck if you get one shotted at that point or not. So what gives??? These builds are barely any different, the only difference is that you're losing some energy resistance from less slotted adjusted targeting.. 3%? Literally the only major hit was this build has *less* global recharge and far more melee defense. So how??? what the hell is happening? Like how is it *that* bad of a difference. This builds are so similar, I have no idea why. My ONE singular hypothesis is that clobber on war mace has a hefty recharge timer on it, meaning that maybe the archtype resist damage procs that stack with each other are just popping off like crazy ? compared to other builds? That's my one hypothesis. However: This build, seemed to fight the same exact conditioned AVs pretty ok... Which, again, you're gaining maybe 3% energy resistance, and you have more global recharge............. but shouldn't *less* recharge make the resistance procs happen more often? Does *more* global recharge make the scaling damage resist procs happen more often or is it just the actual recharge of the ability needing to be fairly longer rather than shorter? I thought adding like, what maybe 1 second to an ability would increase the chances of any procs happening? But again, the difference between these builds is so tiny.. but seriously, I'm not kidding. I've been on the beta server testing this and it is remarkably consistent how much damage you take and how often rommy hits you. I simply do not understand. Do AVs just spawn within a certain margin of randomized stats or something? Or do AVs have some hidden mechanism of punishing you if you have more defense? Does enemies buffed make something funky happen? And another thing I want to say too is, testing out shield/savage on tanker, literally everytime I use blood frenzy and become 'exhausted' rommy hits me and i take more damage, same fight, same conditions, similar builds. And again, I know some people will say 'oh it's just luck' but it is stupidly consistent. Like it happens literally everytime, then when you stop using it, it stops. There is nothing that I could find in city of data about this, whatsoever. Im genuinely curious if there's just hidden stuff happening that I don't know about. None of it makes sense to me and I'm just reaching out to see if anyone has any ideas. Frankly at this point, clobber has such a massive recharge on it despite ageless core and massive global recharge, I'm assuming what's going on is that the resist proc is just popping off all the time, because besides that I genuinely do not have a clue why. Genuinely asking for any insight here, thank you.

fascinating stuff. And even more confusing because it literally happens instantly, well well before 70% hp. With necro, demons, and beasts. Within probably the first 10 or 20 seconds the AV will have some orange glow in the center of it and start to create distance. As long as I don't follow him, he'll come back, but sometimes they just keep running, or it'll take a while. I'm assuming it's a necro/beasts/demon debuff that they are doing. But I've definitely noticed other npcs run and behave how like you're describing, definitely cool info to know.

This is interesting. I am typically making full builds and testing them on the test server before I ever build up and pay for them in the live server, and one thing I add is t4 interface (Or t3 usually cause sometimes the difference between 50% and 75% isn't worth the merits if i have a ton of characters lined up that all need incarnates) I did try removing reactive radial though in testing and AVs still run...but I could try again I guess and see what happens. I had initially thought it was the fire damage, since the AVs seem to run with some orange light attached to the center of them. That's what confused me. I thought it was a burn affect of some kind. But I did try removing reactive radial and they still do it. The next time I try necro, I may go for degenerative just to be sure, but I am assuming it's something the specters do, maybe a debuff that's causing running as described above. And again, I tested this with ninjas/marine against the same AVs on stage 3 of the ITF with reactive radial equipped, and no running from either req or rommy. So maybe it's just a specific debuff or something necro/demons/beasts do that spook the AV. Regardless, I just full slot graviational anchor into any -immobilize I use to negate this, either web envelope or shark school and it seems to do ok. I know there are limits on the potential for MM soloing though, compared to something like a shield tank. I still haven't been successful with clearing the 4 AV fight at +4/x8 on stage 4 of the ITF with solo MM without abusing the aggro limit (which I avoid doing, since it seems to be subject to change, which I don't like). The auto hit nictus and rommy just shred pets immediately, even while in the sky.

ran school of sharks on beasts instead of bile spray and it really did -immobil rommy for the whole fight! I am impressed that beasts took him down. He did kill one of the wolves but that's way better than I expected. Thanks for the info. Requiem seems to be a beasts problem though. THey just don't seem to pull enough aggro from him before he insta kills me from held/ ranged attacks. it seems like beasts take a little bit to fully pull aggro sometimes, even if they're just attacking the hell out of whatever is targeted. This is still a win in my book though. I'm glad I was able to keep the mako pool/shark theme with marine and beasts with some success.