Death2Tyrants
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Posts posted by Death2Tyrants
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On 5/23/2024 at 11:32 PM, tatmia said:
It’s just a guess, but I don’t think that’s the reason. The HC development team seems to lean toward homogenization and that sets within an AT should all perform similarly.
Wind and water control break the mold for control sets. Wind control has power mechanics which are usually reserved for melee and can do ridiculous things in the hands of a skilled player. Water control is kind of OP with its forced movement and knockdowns.
My hypothesis is that they know these powers would start a whole new cycle of calls for buffs and nerfs and just don’t see the ROI to introducing the sets.
Sounds like there are other challenges as well according to Rebirth. -
Arsenal/ has several persistent pulsing AoE Controls you can cast at the top of the fight. IMO it is one of the better primaries that can afford you more time to lean on busier secondaries like some of the heal based sets. On the other side heal based secondaries without strong mitigation via buffs tend to get very very busy especially at +3 or above content.
What level are you? What does your slotting look like? How many toggles are you running?
Without seeing a build you can check your END utilization in MIDS under the Power Graph view under the Windows menu drop-down. The End/Sec view accounts for uptime; the longer the bar the more END you are dumping by spamming those powers. With exceptions most toggles tend to be END efficient so you have to look at them relative to your total Recovery or Net Recovery. Net +2 EPS is my personal goal but it can vary from build to build especially of you have a method of global EndRedux like an Alpha or Conserve Power.
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It may help get you better responses if you let readers know what your build goals are and what you are looking to improve. For one of your first runs at Mids it is a pretty good overall.
I don't understand skipping Smoke Canister and taking Force Field Generator so late in the build. Take them as soon as they are available.
Even with the persistent effects of Arsenal and Trap powers you'll have Endurance recovery issues with anything under Net +2EPS. It varies from build to build but that is the rule of thumb I use. You can check this by clicking "View Totals" button and looking at Net recovery under "End Use" at the bottom. On builds that have an attack chain you can also inspect powers by their endurance usage under the "Windows" ribbon menu by selecting "Power Graphs" and then select "End" or "End/Sec" (which is base on power uptime). This allows you to figure out specific slotting for problem powers. For most Controllers other than Arsenal, the AoE Immobilize powers tend to be the biggest endurance culprit without EndRedux; high uptime high endurance cost.
You are over the "rule of five" cap on two set bonuses for +Rech; +10% and +7.5% (probably from the LotGs). You can check this under the "Windows" menu on the ribbon and select "Sets and Bonuses" If you are over any bonuses you'll see "Cap" in red and the offending 6th bonus will be in red as well.
The goal of 33% DEF is good. Also can be checked under "View Totals"
Assault is usually not worth it unless you are going for some super team build that requires it.
You can swap out two of the slotting in Health for the two +Recovery PROCs for a total of +25% Recovery from both it beats the bonuses you are getting now.
In Stamina I prefer the chance to Heal and chance for +End.
Unlike most /Trap powers Poison Trap is very PROCable. You can swap in a +Recharge set in Tri-Cannon and swap in some PROCs into PT.
Overall another pass or two I think you'll have a pretty solid build.
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1 hour ago, Carnifax said:
Acid mortar does -res too. So Traps does have +recharge and -res along with Time. But times +recharge is probably easier to manage.
😉
If we were talking about /Elec I could agree on "easier to manage" which I take to mean a consistent dependable buff.
The chaining is horribly less predictable and reliable to use as a means of closing the PermaPA gap. I've fired off chains standing right next to a player only to have the chain hit everyone else but me. You also have to spam it when it's up to maintain the uptime of the buff. Theoretically you could get a higher effective +Rech from /EA than the other sets mentioned but I have yet to build an Ill/EA (may set one up on Brainstorm).
As far as Ill/Traps, it all boils down to how far off a build is from Perma-PA without the buff.
On builds that are slightly off from being Perma-PA, it is fairly easy to set up and get the benefit of the +Rech.
You don't always need the full duration of the buff, just enough to shave off that last bit of recharge for PermaPA.
The activation is clunky since you have to place the bomb then activate it. The area is fairly generous though.
The power has been improved from being a skipable in /Traps with its reduced cooldown. It is up every other fight if not every fight.
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On 3/8/2024 at 3:06 PM, Area Man said:
Time and Rad are the only two secondaries with BOTH a Recharge Buff AND foe Debuffs -- both of which make Phantom Army more effective.
What Debuffs are you talking about specifically?
/Traps and /Elec Affinity both have +Rech but neither has -RES (at least not without PROCs).
/Traps Time Bomb was improved with Temporal Bomb which now grants a stationary field of +Recharge; I think the buff value is ~+35%. /Traps also has -DEF with Acid Mortar.
/Elec Affinity also has +Rech but only provides -DMG (less useful to a solo Ill/) and has -REGEN in two powers. The effective recharge value by spamming Energizing Circuit gets it within or exceeding the buff range of those other powers.
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52 minutes ago, evetsleep said:
I can file it as a bug.
It is probably an oversight and just a bug.
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2 hours ago, Arnabas said:
That's my issue though... I generally play based on concept and don't really look at optimization, but I need various elements (costume, bio, fun factor) to come together for me to stick with a character. I haven't found what feels fun (for me) with Time yet.
I'm the same way. Concept is king, usually.
Over time I found that just about any combo can be explained as a tech/scientific/mutant/magic ability and I just start the character as very generic avatar, I can always change the name and costume later. Limited concepts kept me away from combos that, to me, are interesting, viable, and fun. I like the oddball combos and don't really enjoy some of the very popular combos I see in game or in popular guides.
Problem is fun is very subjective. What you may find fun others may not and vice versa. I think the best approach is to get in there and start playing different combos. It is trivially easy to get toons to 26+ which gives you a good sense of what the toon will play like in combination. About half of the combos I've made I've enjoyed while the other half sit on the shelf.
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/Time has a little bit for every primary. In terms of Debuffs you have mostly Slows (both movement and recharge) and some -ToHit. So primarily Ice/ or to a lesser degree Dark/ make good pairs for stacking those effects. +Rech is desired by all Controller Primaries. /Time also brings a degree of control to bolster up your primary.
The only challenge with Ice/Time is managing END early on. If I am going to go through the trouble I much prefer Fire/Time. You'll need to fund the character for +Recovery buffs and use EndRedux in everything to avoid end crashing all the time but it can be quite effective. It really rewards aggressive positioning and gameplay. While leveling it was one of my most complimented characters and Controllers, you are a basically a walking AoE of Control on top of other effects you can use to shape the fight with.
Fire/Time is my top pick.
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1 hour ago, BZRKR said:
We'll see if that creates a (randomly timed) auto-igniting slick.
That will be hilarious if it PROCs itself.
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3 hours ago, heyedwin said:
Electric Controller / Electricity Assault
Unless you are talking about Elec Affinity you might be on the wrong subforum. Try here buddy:
https://forums.homecomingservers.com/forum/21-dominator/-
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IMO Ice/ is one of the Controller primaries that needs a build with a damage oriented pool dip and/or PROCs to boost damage if it isn't paired with a secondary capable of damage. The recent buffs helped but the set is low on damage.
A few powers like Flash Freeze and Cold Snap can be PROCed out at the cost of bonus slotting opportunities but these powers are generally skipped otherwise.
On an Ice/Cold (and Ice/Time) overlaying it's secondary Slow effects -Speed -Recharge elevates its overall control capability a bit but the effect doesn't prevent getting hit, it reduces the attack rate. Still not as good as hard control especially when resisted (+3/+4) but flooring movement/attack is hilarious.
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1 hour ago, BZRKR said:
Do we know if the Oil from Oil Slick Arrow can be ignited by fire and energy? Flashbang and EMP Arrow may be able to ignite the slick if so (I can't quite make heads or tails of the city of data info the various oil slick entities).
The Flashbang does ignite it but I have not tested the EMP. You can always swap for one of the origin powers like the Taser Dart thingy to ignite OSA as a back up.
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Here is a post by @Sovera that covers noobie tips for soloing at the start of the game. Also recommend reading their guide:
Post:Guide:
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5 hours ago, Mentaxus said:
First time playing a controller, I'm Dark/Dark and level 10 and just having a heck of a time. I really like it but I die all the time. What do I want for my enhancements to help with damage and survivability. Also a new player as well
The AT was designed to be a team support class. With a few exceptions, most controllers are fairly low DPS especially early on.
For early levels you basically have to work in the attacks you can purchase from the SMART vendor in the starting zones, they are free so you can pick up 3 total; I usually go two ranged and one melee. If you have the cash you can pick up the charged attacks. You'll also have to figure out how to juggle a ST control rotation between attackers until you pick up more AoE controls.
You can also opt in to take the ST immob (less optimal) or pick up an attack from the power pools (prefered). If you pick up the Immob you can respec out of it earlier. Power pools have a few good options with Sorcery being popular for the Arcane bolt, Enflame, and Teleport/Flight and the Res shield.
Enhancements early on are pretty weak, If you have the coin you can slot IOs so you don't have to change out so often but enhancements don't really shine until the mid game. The biggest problem I see is with endurance. You can run the DFB or DIB to get the recovery buff from the trial. Besides that you can slot 2 End mods in Stamina and if your end is really tanking slot End Redux in your attacks. I focus on maintaining fluid attacking by doing so.
When you gain some more experience playing the game I also recommend Mids Reborn, it is a build tool you can export to the forums to have people look at your build.
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Someone was starting a group over on Reddit too, it may be of interest:
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12 minutes ago, Infinitum said:
Try elec/storm troller - end drains plus slows
and Elec/Kin (not necessarily for slows in this case). Depending on the build the high power uptime makes it demanding to play.
Still working on making it into a melee speedster.
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14 minutes ago, Senbonbanana said:
Wait.... that's possible?? 🤯
Yes, please please please make this accessible from the options UI! I'm by no means a new player, but I had absolutely no idea those slash commands existed, thus had no idea showing all that info was even possible.
Yes. It is similar to how you can have all player names and bars display all the time.
The command has been around for a while. I think possibly even in the original game. It is a bit immersion breaking but it helps when you are moving around a map looking for spawns. There may be a slight performance hit with the setting but I haven't tested it in a while. I usually only run with the names displayed, the bars add too much clutter for my liking.
Here is a full list of commands:
https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/List_of_Slash_Commands -
9 minutes ago, Symar said:
What do these commands do?
They display the names and health, endurance bars of enemies without selecting them.
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16 minutes ago, stryve said:
I completely missed that patch note, and was going off experience with previous builds. This did inspire me to do some more dedicated testing of Sleep Grenade, and I'm afraid I have to report that it is currently suppressing KD and damage for Liquid Nitrogen.
First, Sleep Grenade followed by Liquid Nitrogen, with my fully kitted level 50:
Then, Liquid Nitrogen followed by Sleep Grenade on a level 17 with SOs:
As can be seen, as long as the target is asleep Liquid Nitrogen has no effect. This is also true for Tranquilizer, though I didn't get video of that.
I also tested general effectiveness against a wide variety of groups, with both my level 50 IO and level 15-17 SO builds. Overall, it seems to work better than I expected for the level 50, considering I have it slotted for Slow, with Intuition Radial Alpha. Possibly the extra -Run Speed keeps them from running out of the patch as much. As a disclaimer, I was deliberately pausing to see what happened after firing off Sleep Grenade in most of these videos.
That said, it's still not a reliable opener. Some enemies are more resistant, or you just get a string of bad rolls.
The level 15-17 was even less consistent, probably due to lack of available slots.
I admit, the early encounters with Vazhilok loom large in my memory. More of an emotional response, but it definitely affected my opinion of Sleep Grenade.
I also tried out combining Smoke Canister with Sleep Grenade.
The combination does work, but there's more chance of leakers than Smoke Canister with Liquid Nitrogen, from what I've seen. I have an encounter with the new high level Council that demonstrates that clearly, with Warwolves just charging straight at me. Unfortunately I ran into my daily upload limit before getting to that video.
@ShinMagmus: I can't blame you for feeling that way. Sleep Grenade had utility while leveling with SOs to help cover Recharge gaps in the other AoE controls, but it was relegated to backup as soon as Liquid Nitrogen became available. On my full IO build it's mostly there for the set bonuses; the only time I've used it in regular gameplay (not counting all the specific testing I just went over) was Exemplared down for Posi 1, and to stack Slow on Clamor at the end of Yin.
Nice find and correlating this dysergy to Sleepnade. No wonder I was having problems with LN getting low to no KD.
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1 hour ago, Captain Powerhouse said:
Hello everyone, thank you all for the feedback provided so far.
We understand this set wont make everyone happy, either performance wise or conceptually. No set will ever be able to fulfill that. This is not the first, nor will be the last, new control set we add, so there will be future opportunities to fulfill different themes.
As was noted at some point by other devs, we intentionally don't post about the "vision" of sets because we want to see the set get on players hands and them go wild without pre-established expectations.
Throughout the testing cycle we have seen some of you make this set work very well, and others have a harder time with it. Some of it has been addressed, some of it can't be addressed at this time due to current limitations that we hope will improve in future updates. Other things are simply not compatible with some of your play styles.
For the most part, we try to make every new set play somewhat differently, and require different approaches to maximize their potential. This is true with most sets, but it's especially so with control sets where the combat loop is a lot more reactive than it is with standard damage focused sets.
Honestly, if every set we introduce can be easily approached using the same tactics as any other set, then we feel that is a big failure.
We do have some internal concerns with the set ourselves, I cant talk much about what we see in the future for it, but things like Controller Containment are things that have not escaped us. That is more of an AT design issue than a set one, and not something we will be able to tackle this page.
We are on a release candidate now, but we are not done. We still need to find some bugs, and some additional quality of life features may still make it into the live build. Just please, cope with us, this is a gigantic jenga tower of a game, and modifying any one brick can make the whole tower collapse, so we just cant do everything at once.
Do please continue reporting any issues you have with the set, but we ask you remain polite in doing so.
- Captain Powerhouse
Encouraging to hear. Keep up the great work. Thank you.
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2 hours ago, ShinMagmus said:
I'm fairly certain that the powers team wants Smoke Canister to be the unique signature power. The obvious issue is that the power still isn't good enough to beat Arctic Air (0.0s cast time and stronger effects) or Seeds of Confusion (has a cast time but more reliable instant Confuse paired with a lower CD). So Arsenal's unique signature power is just a worse version of set-defining powers in 2 superior Control Sets.
Well that's what I *think* the powers team is trying to go for, since they refuse to explain any of the decisions or release a statement of intent for the set. Arse Control has an identity now too: it's the Control Set with the most ground patches. That's a workable identity. It's just not a workable gameplay plan without stronger slows or an AoE Immobilize.
Clearly you understand what I am getting at and I agree with your response. I think area of denial was also the goal for the set's signature but the mechanics may not be there to support it in real gameplay. Most sets in the game have a signature/identity, it isn't limited to Control sets.
I separate delivery mechanic from effect. IMO Why Symphony falls flat is it really only has one unique power, the pet with the echos. The Sleep -DMG is a nice touch but everything else is boiler plate with new eye candy. IMO despite it being a good set it isn't memorable for that reason. The one unique thing about it is the reason why some people hate the pet.
One power isn't going to give this set a unique feel nor will the location based activation. Regardless people will play the set since it is gun based; you'll probably have some subset of players that won't play because it is gun based and in their mind guns aren't heroic. For this reason I recommend considering alt wrist launched and/or grenade toss animations.
Smoke is close to being a great power, too much adjustment can make it OP.
Sleepnade was decent when PROCable but it is just a dressed uo copy of Elec/ sleep patch with some differences. Forcing Controllers to crutch on PROCs for DPS is a subpar solution if we are going to keep Containment as is with its limited scope of triggers (Hold, Sleep. Immob, and Disorient).
At this point Liquid Nitrogen is the biggest stinker in the set but hard to justify something else without being too powerful when you look at other Tier 4 powers in Control sets. I liked the Immobilize compromise just not the trigger conditions of wet. One of the earlier versions played better to my liking too.
Perhaps that is the best way to approach the discussion by looking at other Tier 4s. IMO the only issue I see is Arsenal's Tier 3 is in some ways better than other Tier 3s.
Comparing Tier 4s:
- Dark/ has a ST confuse Possess
- Earth/ has a Slow (-Run) and -DEF patch with Quicksand
- Elec/ has a spammable KD with Jolthing Chain. It can be PROCed and is basically better than a KD patch if spammed but at the cost of activation time.
- Fire/ has a resistable -To Hit Debuff and -Perception. Usually skipped.
- Gravity/ has Propel as ST DPS attack with splash KD.
- Ice/ has AA multiple controls and debuffs
- Illusion/ gets AoE hold Flash (the other sets get it as a Tier 8
- Mind/ gets a ST confuse. Not so unique anymore since more sets get access to confuse; that is a good thing.
- Plant/ gets an AoE Sleep (not persistent)
- Symphony/ gets a ST confuse with Serenade.
Not limited to LN patch but thinking outside the box, since the set is predominately grenade based, perhaps allowing the option to set up the control like Trip Mine or Poison Trap but at a distance and have the effect activate when an enemy is in proximity. Since we are talking about controls either disallow multiple instances, disallow stacking from the same player or adjust the numbers to allow overlap of multiple instances. The last option pigeonholes folks into +recharge to compete.
🤷♂️ Wish we had more time to hammer this one out. Still excited to see a new Control Set. I am hopeful something will get worked out.
Edit: Maybe have LN start as an Immob and decay into a Slow patch. As an AoD power I liked the version that had the higher KD chances I think it was an Ice Slick clone that was used. I really don't think this will fix anything.
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My criticisms of Arsenal Control isn't as harsh as some others but I do agree with many of the points made about the set. I am still excited to see new control sets released even if it only serves two ATs. The TLDR Slows and Sleeps are subpar controls. Arsenal has no unique signature.
Arsenal Control checks all the box of following a theme of ejecting projectiles and grenades out of a gun. Mechanically, minus occasional wandering mobs, the set offers fairly good control with persistent location based effects. Whether deliberate or not, I find it complements /Traps and /Trick Arrow just fine. I think it is fine to break away from the boilerplate copy-paste some of the other sets are designed by.
I don't like that the set has throwaway powers. I much prefer sets that have compelling choices for every power pick. It should be difficult to not pick a power. Min-Maxers will always optimize but the average player should be saying "picking between power A or power B is a tough choice". Some powers will always have more utility at lower levels which is fine as a power set design choice. I don't necessarily agree with this philosophy, if someone put effort into crafting a set every power should be a compelling choice to be played IMO. As a controller player not a fan of movement slows or sleeps either even if it is a pulsing effect. I would almost prefer to loose the Sleep for Fear even if I loose containment. Sleepnade is nearly in the skip camp while LN patch is a hard skip for me as it's knock down is too infrequent as a control or damage power.
What makes some of the original sets memorable is the unique signature most of the sets had at the time of their release.
Before the release of Dark/. Earth had Volcanic Gases which was a unique effect with a persistent hold patch.
Fire/ was a bit out of wack(or should be the standard) but had some utility with Smoke and mostly DPS oriented effects with Hot Feet and Bon Fire.
Ice/ was a a bit of a Fire/ clone with lower DPS. Movement Slow + -Recharge and AA are characteristic of the set.
Gravity/ has Wormhole and at the time Propel was neat (but mostly eye candy)
Illusion/ is the stand out with PA and offering some Invisibility support (leveraging threat reduction was the intent)
Mind/ was very unique with prenerf TK and Mass Confusion. When most thought of petless Mind as being weak, TK in the hands of a pro was a marvel to watch
Plant/ has Creepers and SoC which some complain supplants MC in Mind/.
Symphony control has some of this signature with the echoing effects of the Reverberant. This set was also bold enough to boost DPS up which benefit one of the lowest DPS ATs.
All this to say Arsenal Control doesn't have a signature IMO. It has a theme and is mechanically serviceable as a set but it doesn't have a signature power(s). I think this is what makes sets fun and memorable via uniqueness. I get it that with limited assets and an emphasis on reuse it is probably difficult to craft up unique feeling power(s) within a set.
So Arsenal/ has:
- Theme = yes
- Mechanics = yes
- unique signature fun factor = no
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Here is Boomie's archived build thread since there seemed to be interest:
http://web.archive.org/web/20120905001059/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=253197-
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Surprisingly the videos are still up:
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Wind Control
in Controller
Posted
To my knowledge these two sets haven't been released on Homecoming as playable sets.
When you talk about performance you are talking about how these sets currently play on other server clusters since they don't exist here on Homecoming,
How other servers have implemented these sets doesn't necessarily reflect how they could or would play here.
The fact these sets are present in some form within the code doesn't mean the performance #s and mechanics can't be changed to suit whatever design goals are set by the game developers here.
Its been done before. Take Ice Control and Trick Arrow as examples of sets other clusters have in common with Homecoming but play differently here.
Comparing unimplemented sets that don't exist here as being inherently out of whack with the performance of currently playable sets doesn't really make sense unless you are talking about porting assets from other servers.
Regardless, if Wind is implemented I hope they loose the combo system, spender builder mechanics tend to be pretty lame. I would prefer another mechanic.
From a sharing assets perspective I think the "no copy" policy becomes more interesting after reading other clusters' devs responding to the Reddit thread.