Elfis

Actually, that would account for the additional height difference. If I was messing with things and replaced the horizon water while the grid was 2 or 4 feet, that would create a huge water height difference even replacing it in the same spot. Nevermind. I tested different grid sizes and the water fill always appears at the same height I described, so I don't understand what you are trying to say.

I just put it on the floor. It goes 1 foot higher automatically. I tried putting it in lots of different places on the bare floor. I don't know what you mean. To clarify, all water objects that I placed were placed on a bare floor at minimum height, and I tried placing them all around in different locations. The horizon fill always placed 1 foot higher than the surface plates. I guess you're saying that if I changed the grid to 2', the horizon water would place 2' higher and the surface plates would still go on the floor.

To make sure I had not somehow grossly mismanaged the editor and been completely confused about this effect, I did some testing. I started a new base with a level 1 character and laid it out similar to my original base - largest possible base on the smallest plot, mostly low floor, open to the sky. placed Fortunata Fateweavers at different heights. They are 5 feet tall, disappearing under the floor when placed at -5'. Their target box is about 6 feet tall. The smooth and rough water fills both with and without sound produced: - An opaque blue floor 1 foot above the real floor. - A water line 5' above the real floor; 4' above the new floor. - Fateweavers placed from -6' to +1.5' swim. - A 4' tall PC swims with their head about 1 foot under water while in the editor, but swims with head barely out of the water after exiting the editor. - A 6' tall PC swims with head half out of the water while in the editor; with pecs almost out of the water while out of the editor. - (this means PCs swim about 1 1/2' higher while out of the editor than while in it). The smooth and rough water plates produced: - A blue coloring at floor height. - A water line 4' above the floor. - Fateweavers placed from -7' to +0.5' swim. - A 4' PC swims with head half out of the water while in the editor; with head barely out of the water while out of the editor. - A 6' PC swims with head and shoulders above water in the editor; pecs almost out of the water while out of the editor. - (this means PCs swim about 1/2' higher while out of the editor than in). The two types of water were 1 foot of height different in all areas except for swimming height relative to the surface while out of the editor. Inside the editor, PCs swim at the same height in both water types, which puts a short character a foot underwater in the 'fill' type waters. But this doesn't account for everything I observed before. I know I'm not crazy because during the mapserver event, I had players visiting the base during lulls in the action, and I had a couple people comment in surprise that they were swimming underwater. In my tests, this only happened while in the editor, and at this point, I had never used a 'calm' water surface (which players can swim under). Also, my tests only showed a difference in water height of 1'. But I specifically raised NPCs in order to get their heads above water, and later found them not swimming at all. That would require a water height difference of at least 2'. Possible causes of the extra water height change and the swimming underwater out of editor: 1: The Mapserver event and various April Fools weirdness that was going on at the time, and the extra oddities may just be due to that. (One time during the event, I visited the tailor and was trying to figure out why it wanted to charge me money before I even changed anything, and figured out it was due to the costume corruption that the Mapserver bosses inflict you with). 2: I changed my plot size and was experimenting with moving the large island rocks around during this time. I was new to the editor and It could be from some odd manipulation that I don't remember. Unfortunately, I switched to the largest plot size in my test before I started testing the water.

Thanks a ton Dacy for the tips and tours! I have a couple plans for some nice improvements the next time I have time to get to it! Also, I just remembered that one of the mods I installed makes the targeting boxes and name plates larger and more bold. That's why I could see some of the beacons and such if they weren't buried extra deep.

Alright Dacy, I'll try to pop on now and then. If you've seen the base, know that it was mostly made possible by your vids. Wavicle, I have almost every Weird Al song memorized. I can sing that entire song (quite well).

I have been playing Starcraft again instead for the last couple days Dacy. Sorry if you were trying to find me online. And I mostly come to the forum only if I am looking for information not on the wiki. I hadn't intended to delve deeply into the quirks and bugs of the game; I originally was just checking to see if someone knew right offhand what was happening. Perhaps someday, I'll make a new base on a fresh character, put the floor level down to minimum, and try the various water plates along with logging out and checking back later. Maybe find out what the deal is; it doesn't scream out in urgency to me like it seems to do for some people heh. Dacy, if you give me a time, I can make sure to be on and give you base editing if that's what you are looking for. If the base password information is getting hard to find among the jumble, it is 1-14297 on Torch.

Heh. I just went ahead and put the water plates on the bottom too. My sound fx volume is set to 30% so it's not a problem for me; I just thought it might be bothersome for others who might come into the base.

Etched, at first I assumed you were a veteran base builder who was just so practiced at the editor that everything had gotten easy for you. Well, I'm sure the veteran builder part is right. I've seen a couple of your posts giving out helpful information while I've been browsing the forum. But you are also a doofus who doesn't understand what other people are writing. Bob says, 'Man, bike racing is hard!' You say, 'No, man. Bike racing is easy! You just have to tip the bike just right to transfer the power with little wobble, and you can go mad fast! I haven't fallen down even once!" Bob is not worried about any of that. Bob is thinking about that big dude in the way so that he can't get into optimal position for the turn. And the little dude cutting everyone off and possibly causing a wreck that he'll have to avoid. And the jump coming up right after the turn that he will need to be perfectly on balance for. Etc. Maybe my analogy can help you stop doing that, but I've never seen a doofus stop being a doofus, so I'm blocking you so your crap doesn't keep wasting my time. Shame, because you do seem to make good informational posts sometimes.

The item must be precisely placed, and 3 seconds must include time to position yourself so that targeting and such works for the task; that is why it must be multiple things. Of course you can click on an item and then the base and have it appear (usually; not always). But for example when I recently put the wall top trim around my base, I had to place it, move it up, roll it over, and then position it exactly next to its neighbor. I repositioned my character for almost every piece. Now putting in those sections is a useful measure of the time it takes to put in an item. The plan is set, you have your piece ready, because all the sections use the same piece. Each section is next to the last. You claim to be able to do something in 3 seconds, but it sounds like you don't claim to be able to do something useful in 3 seconds. If you post that you can do something in 3 seconds, we assume you are claiming to be able to do something useful in 3 seconds, or else you wouldn't post. If you want to show off how fast you can put up my trim, I'll be happy to watch. We can make a bet for whether you can break 10 seconds per piece if you like. 3 seconds to do something useful is, as people have pointed out to you before, absurd, so I'll settle for 10 seconds per piece. Or you can just give it a try without the bet to show us how fast you are, or you can just let it go. Please don't tell people about how something can be done in 3 seconds if the thing you can do in 3 seconds is a trivial action in a vacuum.

Ah, just read the end of Dacy's post. I went ahead and put water everywhere I want it. You're welcome to come in any time, and I will give you editing power if you want to tweak it. When I originally laid out the base, I had the horizon water fill in the middle of it. The water level was about where it is now, but I remember my character swam under the surface at the time, and I thought it was just because my character is short. But later when I came back and noticed the water was lower, I also wasn't swimming under the surface anymore. So originally, it was acting very similar to the way it does now that I have 2 water layers, a smooth water plate with the clear ("calm" I think it is) water on top, but I only added the clear layer a day ago in order to get back that feeling of depth. So when I first placed the water, it acted like it had an extra clear layer on top, and then stopped behaving like that later. Or something. These are the things I remember: -I had to raise the service NPCs because they were swimming under the water (like me). -The nurse was completely under water, about a foot farther than she is with my current setup. -later, the water went down and I thought it didn't look as nice. -After switching from horizon fill to the smooth water plate, they were barely swimming. (Also, the color isn't as nice as the horizon plate. Why?) -The next time I entered the base, the service NPCs weren't swimming at all; just hanging in the air, since I had raised them off the floor purposely before. -I added the clear water over the top and the NPCs swim again (the nurse is the only NPC that never changes her animation to swimming while in deep water. I tested almost all the others). It now behaves much like it did originally.

I'm not super excited about arguing about the limits of handling things in the base editor, and obviously my recent piddling experience is comparatively short, but I can't see how anything could possibly be done that fast, at least in my base. Island rocks hugging all the outer walls have selection boxes that extend into the base from every side. Some objects are under a layer or two of water. Soooo many different things might be selected by clicking in any one spot. Etched, if you care enough to make me a believer, I'll take a wager. I'll give one of your alts base editing ability for my base and trust that you won't just trash it. If you can accurately place upside down coffe cups on 10 items in my work area in 1 minute, 6 seconds per object, I will bow in awe to your base editing skill and give you 100 mil inf, which is a lot for me because I'm pretty new and the only reason I have that much is the mapserver event. If you fail or mess up other stuff, you give me 100 mil. As noted, there are extremely bothersome target boxes overlapping in that area, including that a couple of the items I'll ask you to put a hat on are under a layer or two of water. I myself would take 4 times that long just to position my character in good positions to add things. I've had a right click that was just intended to change my camera angle rotate objects instead, and as Dacy says, my trust level in the editor is low heh.

The base has been in progress for a few weeks. I'm sure the water level moved at least once without me accidentally moving it when it had horizon fill in the middle of the base, and I'm sure it moved at least once after changing to a regular smooth water tile; the other times it's possible I accidentally dragged it around, but also possible it just moved. The NPCs definitely move up and down randomly by a foot or so whenever they are reset by an undo or such. And Etched if you are talking about my reference to the post about doing something in 3 seconds, yeah I'm not a believer. It's absurd to think that you could do anything safely in 3 seconds in the editor.

It's definitely easy to grab the water or floating rocks 1000 feet away when editing anything. That's why I always make sure I have the correct thing selected when editing anything, and undo and redo after each item placement to make sure I haven't messed up something elsewhere in my base. I read a post somewhere on this forum about how doing [something or other] takes all of 3 seconds. (LOL maybe in the simplest of bases). Anyway, I added a layer of clear water over the top of the water plate and the NPCs swim again even though you fall through to the darker water below. You've probably seen my base Dacy, since you have to verify bases that go on your list and I just put the base on your list. I called it Skyland. If anyone is interested to see the base, 1-14297 on Torchbearer. I have a 200' and an 800' diving board.

I considered it heh. There are waterfalls underneath for water coming out.

When I first made my base, I put the horizon water fill in the middle. There was nothing in the room to put it on; it was just directly on the floor. The water was quite high, and I raised some of my NPCs that were swimming under the water so that their heads would be above. The nurse never swims, so I left her underwater. The next time I went to the base, the water level was lower. Barely above the nurse's head. Over time, it got even lower. I recently put the horizon water fill at the map floor thousands of feet below the base instead. Now there is "smooth water" placed where the horizon water fill was. It was also quite low compared to the nice high water level I had before, but the NPCs were still swimming. But today when I went into the base, my character could still swim, but the water was so low it wasn't even waist high on the nurse. The inspiration storage treasure chests that used to be half submerged back in the beginning now float above the water. I haven't moved the NPCs or the inspiration chests since the start, and I only changed the water one time, from horizon fill to a 16x16 plate, and at the time that I changed that, the water level was the same as it had been with the horizon fill, then later continued to fall. I just tried deleting the water and putting a new water tile, and the water height doesn't change. Hitting undo and redo a few times showed the NPCs changing heights a bit, but the water level doesn't. Inspiration chests still float above the water, crafting stations that used to be deeply submerged are now at the surface, etc. Does anyone know what is happening? I like the high water level, so I will probably manually raise the water tile relative to the floor, but this is very odd and I hope it doesn't keep dropping. UPDATE: I ran some tests, which you can find detailed more on page 2. A few highlights: -'fill' type water places the water 1 foot higher than the water surface tiles. -PCs swim at different heights to match the water when out of the editor, but in the editor, they swim at the same height in both, placing small characters noticably underwater while swimming in the fill tiles while editing. -This doesn't account for all the odd behavior I saw. For example, I had players that visited the base during lulls in the Mapserver event comment in surprise that they were swimming underwater. In my tests, this only happened while editing. - The extra weirdness may just be due to the Mapserver April Fools event, where quite a few things were behaving weirdly.