SemanticAntics
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Posts posted by SemanticAntics
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Question in the title. I'm planning to make a new Tanker and I have a concept for Dark Armor, but the secondary is wide open.
What combinations do you like, and why?
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I explored the function of Burn a long time ago and found that the Flames component did not actually use any slotted accuracy. I was thinking this had been fixed some time after I pointed it out, though. Maybe the changes were rolled back.
Flames inherits to-hit buffs (and I think accuracy buffs--it's been a while and I don't remember everything), so powers or effects that buff that (focused accuracy, insight, etc.) will make Flames hit more reliably while the effect lasts (only briefly, on toggle powers).
Another thing Burn does is create not one Flames patch, but one for each enemy hit with the Burn primary attack. This is why you'll see so many to-hit rolls in the log and why there are so many damage numbers each time it ticks. As written, Burn should create one patch which burns up to five targets within for 13 ticks of damage. In practice, it creates up to five patches, each of which does 13 ticks of damage to up to five targets. I believe this was the cause of the "knockdown procs throw enemies out of burn patches" bug that was around for a while (that did get fixed, right?), as each patch would have a chance of proccing the knockdown effect and knockdown effects that happen close together stack.
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Thanks for the input. I'm certainly leaning toward Bio/Spines now. After a quick search, I note that many of the builds I've seen skip Spine Burst. Is there a particular reason for that? Does it not translate well to a Tanker? Is it just because it's slow?
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I have never tried Bio Armor before and I'm looking for a good secondary to go with it. I have a concept that lends itself to physical attacks (as opposed to elemental/energy/psychic) so I'm trying to decide between the following:
- Any of the weapon sets (except Dual Blades)
- Martial Arts (I'm disinclined to pick this set, personally)
- Savage Melee
- Spines (this is a pretty good fit for my concept)
- Stone Melee (this is a little bit of a stretch but, colored appropriately, can fit my concept)
- Street Justice
I'd prefer average-or-better damage. With the coming changes, I'd prefer something with some good AoE powers.
I would appreciate any recommendations and the reasons behind them.
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You're going to want some accuracy in consume. It has to hit to work.
Edit: Burn, too. Burn is about to be fixed so that it properly uses accuracy, but even now it is significantly better with accuracy slotted.
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8 hours ago, Unknown Magi said:
I can very much understand where Kimuji is coming from, this is Fire's version of "The Rage Fix", where a bug has existed so long that it's considered baseline and it's suddenly being fixed in a way that will drastically reduce the power level people are used to. Going to do some testing this week when I get some time.
I'd recommend increasing the DoT portion's damage to compensate for the loss. Perhaps either by increasing the ticks' base value or by increasing the number of ticks. I'm not sure if either is a better solution.
Me, personally? I'd change the target cap on both the initial pulse and DoT portion to 10. Increase the endurance cost to about 14. The damage values are fine for a PBAoE attack, but it's cheap and small at 5 targets.
Also, maybe this is already on the radar, but the initial damage pulse doesn't seem to even try to hit more than four targets. I'd guess the player is taking up a target slot.
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I am terrible at builds. How can this be improved?
My goals were at least 46.5% defense to S/L/F/C/E, a healthy amount of S/L resists, and perma-hasten. I'm not sure how to gauge how effective the Force Feedback proc is for global recharge, but I think it will be enough to close the current gap.
I have no idea what to pick for the last three powers, and I was out of slots anyway, so I just left them empty for now. I'm leaning toward Soul Mastery as it's the closest to the character concept.
Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.2
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designerClick this DataLink to open the build!
Psi/Energy Test: Level 50 Magic Brute
Primary Power Set: Psionic Melee
Secondary Power Set: Energy Aura
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: SpeedVillain Profile:
Level 1: Psi Blade -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(11), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(11), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Acc-I(34)
Level 1: Kinetic Shield -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(3), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(3), Rct-Def/Rchg(13), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Rct-ResDam%(34)
Level 2: Telekinetic Blow -- BrtFur-Acc/Dmg(A), BrtFur-Dmg/Rchg(7), BrtFur-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), BrtFur-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), BrtFur-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 4: Power Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(5), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(5), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(15), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(19), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(19)
Level 8: Psi Blade Sweep -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(9), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(9), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 10: Entropic Aura -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Kick -- Acc-I(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 16: Tough -- TtnCtn-ResDam(A), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(17), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(17), TtnCtn-EndRdx(23)
Level 18: Boggle -- MlsIll-Acc/Rchg(A), MlsIll-EndRdx/Conf(31), MlsIll-Acc/EndRdx(33), MlsIll-Conf/Rng(33), MlsIll-Acc/Conf/Rchg(33)
Level 20: Energy Cloak -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(21), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(21), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(25), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 22: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(23), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(25), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(27), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 24: Dampening Field -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), TtnCtn-ResDam(40), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(40), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(40), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 26: Greater Psi Blade -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(48), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Hct-Acc/Rchg(50), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 28: Energy Protection -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 30: Energy Drain -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(31), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(31), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(43), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 32: Mass Levitate -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(37), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(37), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), FrcFdb-Rechg%(39)
Level 35: Energize -- DctWnd-Rchg(A), DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx(36), DctWnd-Heal(36), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(36), DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 38: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 41: Taunt -- MckBrt-Taunt(A), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg(45), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(46), MckBrt-Acc/Rchg(46), MckBrt-Taunt/Rng(46), MckBrt-Rchg(48)
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fury
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), PrfShf-EndMod(15), PrfShf-End%(29)
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Hi folks. I have a concept for a Psi Melee / Energy Aura Brute that I'd like to try, but I don't have any experience with either set. I'm looking for some tips on what powers are most useful and which are skippable.
Also, what should I try to build for once I start using IOs? Typed defense seems like the obvious first step. Recharge next? I'm not very good at builds.
I realize that this won't be very good at farming, but I'd like to be able to solo most other content at higher difficulty levels, though not necessarily +4/x8.
I didn't see any builds for this combo by searching, but if someone has a build they'd like to share, I would appreciate it.
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The latest patch notes address Burn's multiple-patch issue. It's performing much more like it was intended. Sadly, finally getting fixed means it does significantly less damage than before. The DoT portion does only 20% of its previous damage, fully saturated. Its damage output no longer varies based on targets hit, though, so there's that. It was a necessary loss, but not a fun one.
The up-front damage is still capping at 4 enemies, though. Now that there's only ever one burn patch per power activation, that up-front damage is much more important.
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57 minutes ago, Trickshooter said:
I think Vanden pointed it out somewhere, but Burn doesn't seem to limit itself to summoning a single Burn patch; it might be summoning one for each target in range. And since activating Burn also technically targets the caster (for the Immob protection), it probably always summons at least 2.
That's it! That's exactly what it's doing. After some testing, I was able to confirm this behavior. I couldn't find the post you mention, but thanks for pointing the behavior out.
Summary of my results:
- Burn summons one burn patch (called "Flames" in the combat log) on the caster for each target in range, up to five (including the caster), depending on a successful hit-check of the front-loaded pulse. I was never able to get that pulse to target five foes, even when five were in range. I think (as you said) that means the caster is target 1, leaving only the four remaining targets.
- Each burn patch targets up to five targets as expected.
- This results in a maximum expected number of ticks equal to 13 x (foes in range [up to four] +1) x (foes in range [up to five]). In short, against two foes Burn summoned three burn patches which each attempted to hit both foes 13 times, for a total of 78 ticks. Against five foes, it summoned five patches (but didn't try to hit foe #5 with the initial damage) that each tried to hit the five foes 13 times, for a total of 325 ticks. Once, against two foes, the initial pulse missed both foes and it only attempted 13 ticks, total. So the pseudopet is working properly (save for the accuracy issue that is going to be fixed), it's just being summoned too many times.
I can't believe I didn't notice this before. I think it's because I was focused on the accuracy issue and was doing most of my testing on a single enemy to eliminate other factors. Going over those logs now, I see that it was summoning two burn patches for 26 total ticks.
I think the initial pulse is tied to the on-caster effect (immob protection). If it can be separated, the initial pulse should begin targeting five foes properly. Once separated, the burn patch can be tied to the on-caster part instead of the on-target part so that it only summons one patch per activation. This would need to be tested in conjunction with the Mastermind Assault Bot power Incendiary Missiles, for which summoning a burn patch for each affected target is the intended behavior. Since both Burn and Incendiary Missiles summon the same pseudopet, care would need to be taken not to stealth nerf Incendiary Missiles while fixing Burn.
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I see in the patch notes that a fix for Burn's accuracy problem is coming down the pipe. This is great.
I don't see any mention of the other problem with Burn that I recently noticed: The DoT ticks hit twice.
According to the in-game detailed info on Burn, it should be doing 13 DoT ticks. According to the combat log, it is attempting 26. Each tick seems to have its own hit roll, so maybe this is using an older tick count (from before the i18 change, perhaps?) by mistake. I think this is at least partly why the Avalanche (and Overwhelming Force?) proc is doing knockback instead of knockdown when slotted into Burn.
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I sometimes use the buff pet to trigger a mob's alpha strike. Just summon it in the middle of the pack just before jumping in. Better it than me!
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If I recall correctly, this was a known inaccuracy with the text, rather than the function. I believe it's working as intended, but not as described.
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While I would definitely appreciate a Dev's take on this, I just want to put out there that:
- 100's of /Fire Brutes are doing (aka farming) just fine with the power as-is.
- If it's buffed in any way, it's End cost absolutely needs to be more than 5, which is ridiculously low for what is does currently.
While testing, I spoke with a few other /Fire Brutes about this. One in particular had a very expensive build and had clearly spent a lot of time tuning it. He was shocked when he repeated my testing with similar results. None of them had noticed. That may seem strange to you, but I believe the main reason for that is because that portion of Burn does not report in the combat tab. Only the initial pulse of damage appears in the combat tab by default.
I tend to play Masterminds a lot, so my default chat setup includes a tab with all the Pet channels. It's because of that Pet tab that I saw Burn's full reporting. In that reporting, I noticed that the DoT portion was making (and frequently missing) toHit checks for every tick of damage. I didn't think anything about it making frequent toHit checks--that's expected behavior. But I noticed that the hit chance was significantly lower than I would have otherwise expected. That's what initially led me to test the power's accuracy and discover that the DoT portion was not using the Accuracy enhancements slotted in the power.
I agree that its endurance cost should be higher. It is not "ridiculously low," but it is below the adjusted cost of similar powers. Its small radius, low target cap, long recharge, and drawn-out, partially-unreliable effect cumulatively warrant a fairly low cost. I don't know how much weight each of those things has when balancing a power's cost, but I think around 8-13 endurance is appropriate.
Keep in mind that I'm not asking for a buff. Burn is a strong enough power already. I'm just asking for what is clearly a bug to be fixed. That fix would affect several powers, not just Burn. Burn just happens to be the power I initially noticed it on. And again, if someone on the current team (or one of the original developers) were to go on record saying that this is working as intended, then I'd leave this alone. But I don't believe this is intended behavior.
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Honestly, I feel like they should add a slow affect to Burn as well. However, I'm sure if I request that, the forum dwellers would rip my head off and crap down my neck.
Burn's area is so small that adding a slow effect would probably not make any difference. Plus, it doesn't make a lot of sense, thematically.
The slow effect in Rain of Fire also doesn't make a lot of sense, but I think it may be necessary for the power to function well.
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I want recharge to work on pets.
This wont happen unless they can rework the entire AI of pets. It was the exact reason why they removed +recharge on pets, their AI went totaly bonkers.
As for travel, group flight still works on your pets, they follow you just fine :P
As I recall, the AI issue was that pets spammed their fast-recharging weak attacks and didn't use their slower-recharging powerful attacks. Why they didn't just prioritize available (as in, not currently recharging) longer-recharge attacks (with perhaps some exception to control or AoE attacks, so those might be used more tactically) is something I don't know. Maybe that didn't fix the issue, or perhaps I misunderstood the issue.
Has Group Fly's area been increased? I seem to remember pets falling out of it all the time unless you used Goto to keep them moving with you.
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The major difference between Burn and Rain of Fire or Freezing Rain, is that RoF and FR have a slow affect to them. So it doesn't do the mobs much any good to flee. Those two powers and powers like them might as well not even have a fear affect to them...it's pointless.
That may make some of the difference. In my (admittedly brief) testing, I saw two or three peel off from the pack when I used Rain of Fire, but 4-7 fled when I used Burn. This was with comparable group sizes.
I suspect there's an issue of magnitude as well, as bosses were less likely to flee.
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[...] does the initial hit, hit harder than the ones that follow? Just trying to figure out why only the initial hit would require a hit check.
The initial hit does the majority of the damage. Approximately 60%, all at once. The other 40% happen over ten seconds in the flame patch.
[...] Regardless of balance issues, other patches do benefit from Accuracy slotting. And I would want to know if the Thugs and Assault Bot powers also are limited in not getting a benefit from Accuracy, and the same for Enflame and for Ignite.
And with that, I would then want the Devs to say "it's a bug", or "it's intended". Players can have wildly varying opinions on what is intended, and they can't all be right.
Yes, the Arsonist, Assault Bot, and Assault Rifle's Ignite all appear to be affected by this bug. In the case of the Assault Bot, it directly summons Burn's pseudopet. In the case of the Arsonist, it appears to summon a copy. I'm not sure, but Ignite seems to be a copy of the old Burn.
Enflame is not affected.
Huh. In looking at Enflame, its effects vary slightly by archetype. I see a reference to an archetype I had never heard of before. The Primalist.
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Because it has the endurance cost of an attack that deals two thirds its base, non-dot damage to a single target.
Because it gives full strength immobilize protection for four times its unenhanced recharge.
Because for that initial damage in that radius, it should be costing almost 20 endurance, and recharging in 20 seconds without any secondary effects, including no DoT patch.
Because some people remember what burn tanks were, and are, capable of.
Because if the burn patch inherited accuracy, then it'd be a reliable 2.4 scale AoE on a ridiculously short recharge. In a defense powerset.
I agree that its endurance cost seems a bit low for the damage that it does. I do not believe that inherent inaccuracy is intended as a balance for the low endurance use, however. If that were the intent, it would be reflected by a lower accuracy multiplier, not by ignoring enhancement values. This is clearly a case of a flag not being set. Comparing it with other, similar powers, I would guess that Burn's damage, low target cap, 25-second recharge, small radius, and more-damage-as-a-secondary-effect nature of Fire should probably put its endurance cost somewhere closer to 8-13. If its target cap and radius were raised to 10, 16-20 would be a reasonable endurance cost.
You want to know the similarly-functioning powers to Burn? You want to look in Blast sets. At Rain of Fire, in Fire Blast, or Ice Storm, in Ice Blast, or even Sleet, in Cold Domination. Because while they can take Accuracy enhancements, until that i18 change, Burn worked exactly like them - it had a Fear in it. It made enemies run out of it.
I did. And while the powers you mention do indeed have an internal "Avoid" mechanic, even though Burn doesn't appear to, Burn also causes foes to flee the effect. I tested that just now, along with Rain of Fire and Freezing Rain. All three caused mobs to scatter, unless they were being affected by Taunt effects (being attacked by a tanker or brute, for instance, or using a taunt aura like Blazing Aura). Oddly enough, Burn caused more scatter than Rain of Fire or Freezing Rain, despite the lower target cap and lack of an explicit "Avoid" mechanic. The main difference is that Rain of Fire and similar powers are flagged to be affected by accuracy enhancements, while Burn's DoT patch is not.
Funny thing about the i18 change you mention. Neither there, nor in any of the other patch notes I searched through, is there a mention of Burn being changed to allow accuracy enhancement. You said that it originally didn't accept accuracy enhancements. That may be correct, but I can't find any evidence supporting or refuting it. Other powers have been changed to accept enhancements, or to no longer accept enhancements, and those changes are typically in the patch notes. One would think that, if Burn were changed to accept accuracy enhancements, it would be in a patch note. It's one of the things I was looking for in order to determine whether this appeared to be intentional or not. Knowing when such a change was made would give insight into why it was changed.
Burn is strong. Burn has always been strong. It's a strong AoE, in a set with lots of offense already, even if half the ticks may end up missing on a +3 target. It's still good. If you want to skip it, fine, but it's not a bug that the power doesn't work the way you'd like it to work.
It is a strong power. I'm not disputing that. I also never said I was going to skip it. I'm not sure where you got that idea. Its front-loaded damage is almost as good as most other PBAoE attacks. Its total damage (assuming all the DoT ticks land on the same enemy) is actually better than most PBAoE attacks. It suffers over time by comparison with other PBAoE attacks because most of them do similar or better damage (compared with Burn's front-loaded damage), but with a faster recharge, a higher target cap, and/or a larger radius. Claws' Spin, for instance, does a full third more damage than Burn's initial pulse and about 80% as much as Burn's ideal total, but against twice as many enemies and nearly twice as often. Now, this comes at the cost of a lot more endurance, as well as the arguably-inferior Lethal damage type.
But I didn't post about it because it isn't working the way I'd like it to. I posted about it because it sticks out among every other mechanically-similar power I tested in one respect: Burn's pseudopet does not use the accuracy enhancements given to it.
I have asked several times for a GM to weigh in on this topic. If one of them said that Burn was working as it was intended, then I'd be happy enough with Burn as an AoE attack that sometimes happens to do DoT. Even better if someone could produce an archived forum post from the original dev team to that effect. I was unable to find such a post. Until then, I believe this is a bug that, while probably not very high-priority, should get fixed at some point. I even went and
found where the bug is in the server files so that fixing it should be trivially easy. As a bonus, I even addressed Rain of Fire in that post.
Slotting Accuracy improves the accuracy of the initial AoE hit. It does not improve the Accuracy of the resulting damage patch. This is working as intended.
Working as coded is not necessarily the same as working as intended.
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I'm fairly sure I remember that being the case from Live, long ago. Burn inherited your damage enhancing and damage boosts, while they persisted, but didn't inherit Accuracy enhancements. Before that initial damage tick was added in Issue 18, I believe it didn't even take Accuracy enhancements, and HOs or PBAoE IOs that had Accuracy in them didn't do anything to it.
The power having no Accuracy component on the patch was very deliberate. You aren't supposed to be able to boost the hit rate. It just is what it is.
Literally no other similarly-functioning power behaves as you describe. Why should Burn?
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So, you're OK with the powers still running on the old, defeated spawn such that you can't use it right away on the next alive and attacking you spawn?
Personally, I'd prefer it to stay on until I'm done needing it, regardless of my anchor's status. That way, I choose when it comes down, not Johnny happy-trigger.
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I believe that's because it's technically an offensive toggle. I've noticed that as well on another toggle. I think it was Rise to the Challenge.
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I now have proof!
Under Brute_Defense.Fiery_Aura.Burn in the Powers.bin file, the "BoostsAllowed" attribute identifies "Boosts" (the internal term for enhancements) with ID numbers 23, 18, 9, and 5. Through testing and cross referencing, I've determined that those are Endurance, Recharge, Damage, and Accuracy, respectively.
Burn triggers, as one of its effects, the entity Pets.Burn.Burn which does the DoT ticks. That entity's "BoostsAllowed" attribute only lists boost ID 9. That's damage. It makes sense for endurance and recharge slotting to not be allowed, they make no logical sense for the pseudopet. But boost ID 5, Accuracy, is missing. This is consistent with my testing, which showed that the pseudopet uses Damage enhancements, but not Accuracy enhancements. I believe this line is why.
Truncated copy/paste (the ellipses in brackets are mine, to represent trimmed lines):
================ FullName = Brute_Defense.Fiery_Aura.Burn [...] BoostsAllowed = [ 23, 18, 9, 5 ] [...] ================ FullName = Pets.Burn.Burn [...] BoostsAllowed = [ 9 ] [...]
Edited to add: For comparison's sake, Rain of Fire's pseudopet (Corruptor version), Pets.Corruptor_RainofFire.RainofFire, allows both Damage and Accuracy.
================ FullName = Pets.Corruptor_RainofFire.RainofFire [...] BoostsAllowed = [ 9, 5 ] [...]
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One thing I did notice, is that Rain of Fire and Ice Storm can have their accuracy increased by popping yellows. I don't have burn anymore, so I can't check that. Do me a favor and see if popping yellows changes anything for burn?
It does. My early testing (example 3 in this post) demonstrated that.
What are your favorite Dark Armor builds?
in Tanker
Posted · Edited by SemanticAntics
So many excellent suggestions! I think I'm going to try out /Staff and /Martial Arts for ten or twenty levels and see which of the two I like better. /Radiation is one of my favorite melee sets, so I might try to squeak in one of those later, but I have an SR/Rad Tanker that is pretty sturdy. It sailed through the LRSF solo until the last mission, when I couldn't outpace the Heroes' regeneration. That was before the recent tanker changes, so that might be easier now. I haven't tried again due to lack of time lately.