Symphony build advice

[Lhanis]

One of my oldest and probably favorite characters is my Dark/Dark controller, but I've always been annoyed how the AT suffers when on it's own. It's probably the safest thing I've ever played, handles x8 on it's own fairly well, Fade and Soul Absorption are wonderful things... but especially exemp'd there's a lot of time spent just sitting and spamming Dark Grasp while I wait for pets to do something.

 

A friend of mine pointed out that Symphony might be to my liking though, with its focus more on damage. The 'nuke' in Confounding Chant looks downright terrifying when containment and build up procs are active, so I wanted to give it a shot.

 

Procs definitely seem the way to go, and I picked up Arcane Bolt to fill the attack chain... but what I ended up with loses Darkest Night and I ended up leaning hard into global recharge as I couldn't fit Hasten because of it (I really need teleport target, which takes up another pool pick...) which leaves me with a gap in Absorption and Fade.

 

Build is attached below. Thoughts? Advice? The reverberant definitely feels like an odd one to me, unsure how it should be slotted. Echoing the sentiment that I've seen around the forum that it would be nice if it could take Will of the Controller ATO.

 

 

Controller Sym Dark wip.mbd

[Wimbochismo]

The build you have looks pretty good. Like you said, the biggest issue is Soul Absorption being 10s off perma and Fade being 16s off. Twilight Grasp could use some accuracy. 

 

Ideally I'd push for Hasten. I'm not sure how set you are on Soul Mastery, but if you drop Arcane Bolt for Hasten and take something like Fire Blast and Fire Shield or even Melodic Binding is decent dpa. Plenty of options outside of Arcane Bolt unless you really want it. I consider Symph as having a stronger aoe focus. Hasten will also give you faster Confounding and Discords. 

 

Reverb is a decent pet that layers control's. Usually I just set mule him then let him do his thing. It pairs nicely with Dark Servant.

 

I'll attach a Symph/Dark build to show you some options you could take. It isn't optimized for what you want, but it has perma Hasten, SA, and Fade. Also 45 ranged def, but I had to sacrifice some procs/uniques to get there. Maybe drop Chords in the build for Teleport Target.

Symphdark.mbd

[Lhanis]

15 minutes ago, Wimbochismo said:

The build you have looks pretty good. Like you said, the biggest issue is Soul Absorption being 10s off perma and Fade being 16s off. Twilight Grasp could use some accuracy. 

 

Ideally I'd push for Hasten. I'm not sure how set you are on Soul Mastery, but if you drop Arcane Bolt for Hasten and take something like Fire Blast and Fire Shield or even Melodic Binding is decent dpa. Plenty of options outside of Arcane Bolt unless you really want it. I consider Symph as having a stronger aoe focus. Hasten will also give you faster Confounding and Discords. 

 

Reverb is a decent pet that layers control's. Usually I just set mule him then let him do his thing. It pairs nicely with Dark Servant.

 

I'll attach a Symph/Dark build to show you some options you could take. It isn't optimized for what you want, but it has perma Hasten, SA, and Fade. Also 45 ranged def, but I had to sacrifice some procs/uniques to get there. Maybe drop Chords in the build for Teleport Target.

Soul/Dark Embrace was mostly for theme, I'm just a sucker for the visual. You're right though, I don't think Arcane Bolt is worth the loss of Hasten. I took it as a replacement for Melodic since it has better DPA and can slot a FF proc, but I think I'm just better off dropping Sorcery to get hasten back, especially since I'm taking flight to mule LotGs anyway and not using the the travel power.

 

I like some of your slotting replacements, and I think I will end up dropping Chords like you suggest. The cooldown is hefty and I don't have the slots to proc it out anyway, so it feels like the power i'll miss least. I appreciate the second opinion!

[Onlyasandwich]

My thoughts:

 

• I would personally miss the aoe immob, as mob scatter can be obnoxious otherwise. It's also one of your primary sources of persistent containment.
• I don't know that I'd worry about a third ST blast (melodic, arcane, etc). You'll be busy enough with other things between Impassioned and Hymn's cooldown, which are both pretty quick.
• Chord's can be dropped, but I rather like it as a home for a 5 slot purple set (minus the proc), which makes a strong problem solver when needed.
• Enfeebling Lullaby is a strong proc damage power. Ideally I would find a way to reprioritize slotting to allow this.
• I see you are setting teleport target as a requirement. Is this just for teaming, or other purposes? Reverberant can fly, and doesn't need teleport shenanigans to stay with you.
• The return on your Adjusted targeting slots in Tactics is very marginal. These are easy slots to siphon elsewhere.
• Assault is nice enough for teaming, but of very marginal personal benefit, as much of your damage will come from procs, and even the base damage enhancement is not amazing for the end cost. This would be an easy drop for Hasten.
• Although you can live without it, finding room for Darkest Night would be nice. This would give you a tool to effectively cap out defenses when you really need it. Most of the time your other controls will be quite sufficient, but it will take the pressure off your other slots that are currently devoted to defense.
• Unbreakable Guard 4 slots isn't doing a ton for you in Dark Embrace. Consider cutting the power down to 2 slots with 1 Ribo and a +4 Resist IO.
• Aegis psionic resist is very marginal in Shadow fall. Your psi totals are modest at best even with, and the slot would be better served either enhancing the power's actual resist, defense, or just towards other powers entirely.
• Red Fortune does not fit well in Fade. Not only is not not maximizing the recharge, which is still short of perma, but it completely neglects the resist component. Consider a hybrid slotting strategy. A lotg can fit here as well, allowing you to drop either Veng or Evasive if you are only using them primarily as mules.
• Soul Absorption would be a nice target for any saved slots for recommendations above. Enhancing its end especially is quite useful, as you will find yourself breathing heavy at times with good power cycling.
• Maneuvers is also pretty marginal for slot return. If you were just eking out that last bit to softcap, it is sometimes worth it, but this isn't where you are.

 

There is much I would probably do different in a ground-up rework, but I respect that we may have some different priorities!

 

Here is my own symphony build, in the event you may find some of the slotting strats in the primary helpful. Even with very little defense as I have here, it is quite survivable due to the raw strength and ease of use in Symphony's controls.

 

Controller (Symphony Control - Pain Domination).mbd

 

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Onlyasandwich

[Lhanis]

21 hours ago, Onlyasandwich said:

My thoughts:

 

• I would personally miss the aoe immob, as mob scatter can be obnoxious otherwise. It's also one of your primary sources of persistent containment.
• I don't know that I'd worry about a third ST blast (melodic, arcane, etc). You'll be busy enough with other things between Impassioned and Hymn's cooldown, which are both pretty quick.
• Chord's can be dropped, but I rather like it as a home for a 5 slot purple set (minus the proc), which makes a strong problem solver when needed.
• Enfeebling Lullaby is a strong proc damage power. Ideally I would find a way to reprioritize slotting to allow this.
• I see you are setting teleport target as a requirement. Is this just for teaming, or other purposes? Reverberant can fly, and doesn't need teleport shenanigans to stay with you.
• The return on your Adjusted targeting slots in Tactics is very marginal. These are easy slots to siphon elsewhere.
• Assault is nice enough for teaming, but of very marginal personal benefit, as much of your damage will come from procs, and even the base damage enhancement is not amazing for the end cost. This would be an easy drop for Hasten.
• Although you can live without it, finding room for Darkest Night would be nice. This would give you a tool to effectively cap out defenses when you really need it. Most of the time your other controls will be quite sufficient, but it will take the pressure off your other slots that are currently devoted to defense.
• Unbreakable Guard 4 slots isn't doing a ton for you in Dark Embrace. Consider cutting the power down to 2 slots with 1 Ribo and a +4 Resist IO.
• Aegis psionic resist is very marginal in Shadow fall. Your psi totals are modest at best even with, and the slot would be better served either enhancing the power's actual resist, defense, or just towards other powers entirely.
• Red Fortune does not fit well in Fade. Not only is not not maximizing the recharge, which is still short of perma, but it completely neglects the resist component. Consider a hybrid slotting strategy. A lotg can fit here as well, allowing you to drop either Veng or Evasive if you are only using them primarily as mules.
• Soul Absorption would be a nice target for any saved slots for recommendations above. Enhancing its end especially is quite useful, as you will find yourself breathing heavy at times with good power cycling.
• Maneuvers is also pretty marginal for slot return. If you were just eking out that last bit to softcap, it is sometimes worth it, but this isn't where you are.

 

All good points, some of which I already addressed in my tweaking after Wimbochismo's comment. I did in fact drop the third attack entirely and grab the aoe immob, in theory I was thinking that Lullaby's sleep would be enough to get containment onto a group for Confounding Chant, and that cycling the two STs would handle the rest. In practice... not so much. So I dropped Bolt for Aria and migrated the ATO set there to free Lullaby up.

 

Teleport Target is a specific need that I try to work into characters as often as possible. I duo quite a bit with a... lets say, directionally challenged friend who gets lost or stuck/separated quite frequently. It helps a lot to make sure they can keep up with a group in some content, and is sometimes easier to just yank them than try to describe where to go. It's not a hard requirement, but I'd rather have it than not.

 

Aegis Unique and the slots in Maneuvers/Tactics is more just personal preference. The tweaked build now has perma-SA and Fade with a 1.6s gap, but the lack of global accuracy makes me feel like I need to at least give Tactics a little push, and both it and Maneuvers are end hogs if SA slips. I could probably do without them, but my issue isn't really lack of slots so much as to many powers to take. Aegis Unique itself is just me being annoyed with no pre-incarnate protection from mez, and liking to have the status resist more than the psi resist.

 

I did actually consider taking Chords if only to mule the set, but I'm strapped for power picks. Short of dropping a LotG mule or Teleport, I can't find something for it to replace. Unless I once again drop Darkest Night for it. 

 

This is what I have now, after actually playing with the set for a bit and taking a peek at the examples you both gave. I'd love to get more procs into DD and CC, but I couldn't find a comfy way to do so without losing chunks of the global recharge I need to keep Fade and Hasten as close to gapless as possible. Overall,  I'm happier with this setup than what I started with, but may revisit it after some more playtesting.

 

Controller Sym Dark wip2.mbd

Edited August 6, 2023 by farsinger

[Panache]

Replying to follow; I’ve got a baby Symph/Storm (first go at Symphony, old hat at Storm), and the former’s slotting potential is all over the place.

[Wimbochismo]

13 hours ago, farsinger said:

 

All good points, some of which I already addressed in my tweaking after Wimbochismo's comment. I did in fact drop the third attack entirely and grab the aoe immob, in theory I was thinking that Lullaby's sleep would be enough to get containment onto a group for Confounding Chant, and that cycling the two STs would handle the rest. In practice... not so much. So I dropped Bolt for Aria and migrated the ATO set there to free Lullaby up.

 

Teleport Target is a specific need that I try to work into characters as often as possible. I duo quite a bit with a... lets say, directionally challenged friend who gets lost or stuck/separated quite frequently. It helps a lot to make sure they can keep up with a group in some content, and is sometimes easier to just yank them than try to describe where to go. It's not a hard requirement, but I'd rather have it than not.

 

Aegis Unique and the slots in Maneuvers/Tactics is more just personal preference. The tweaked build now has perma-SA and Fade with a 1.6s gap, but the lack of global accuracy makes me feel like I need to at least give Tactics a little push, and both it and Maneuvers are end hogs if SA slips. I could probably do without them, but my issue isn't really lack of slots so much as to many powers to take. Aegis Unique itself is just me being annoyed with no pre-incarnate protection from mez, and liking to have the status resist more than the psi resist.

 

I did actually consider taking Chords if only to mule the set, but I'm strapped for power picks. Short of dropping a LotG mule or Teleport, I can't find something for it to replace. Unless I once again drop Darkest Night for it. 

 

This is what I have now, after actually playing with the set for a bit and taking a peek at the examples you both gave. I'd love to get more procs into DD and CC, but I couldn't find a comfy way to do so without losing chunks of the global recharge I need to keep Fade and Hasten as close to gapless as possible. Overall,  I'm happier with this setup than what I started with, but may revisit it after some more playtesting.

Controller - Dark Dark Revamp2.mxd 5.1 kB · 0 downloads

 

Not sure if you realized, but you posted a Dark/Dark build. Since I looked at it anyway... 

 

For that one in particular, don't forget to +5 your recharges by pressing + on the numpad when selecting the IO. With that, you have ~4s off perma Hasten and 5s off perma SA. In fade, if you switch the Defense and Defense/End LotG's to Defense/Recharge, Defense/Endurance/Recharge (same with the resistance set). You'll lose 1% defense/resist but get perma Fade.

 

I don't think Chords is needed in your build. It's typically used as an emergency safety net. You already have so many layered defenses with this combo it's ridiculous. Uptime of Fade and defenses, good resits, -tohit, Dark Servant -tohit cc and heals, Reverb cc, soft and hard controls, a heal. And really Howling Twilight replaces the usage of Chords. It can be viewed as an emergency mag 3 fear mag 2 stun.

 

I agree with others that Symph's slotting can get really crazy. First I consider the secondary and what it provides, in this case /Dark with all the survivability and support. Then for Controller's I consider how much I need the controls for survivability. Hasten is almost a staple on Controller's with long cooldowns. After that it's emphasizing what I absolutely won't give up on and pushing dmg with sets and procs.

 

Luckily what Symph gives is variety in slotting. Especially Symph/Dark has so many options for valuable oddball sets. Cloud Senses 4 slots is great for recharge, even better if you are range def and go 6 slots for 3.75 def. Many examples like that. It definitely makes the building mini game more fun.

[Lhanis]

2 hours ago, Wimbochismo said:

 

Not sure if you realized, but you posted a Dark/Dark build. Since I looked at it anyway... 

 

Uh... oops. I have to many builds >.< I saw "2" and hit post. Also... good catch on the Fade slotting!

Link fixed.

 

I will say I don't usually +5 anything that isn't a basic IO, as I do tend to play a lot of exemp'd content and prefer attuned sets. A quick glance at the old Dark/Dark reminded me that Hami-Os are a thing though and I should slot those into Darkest Night instead of generic End Redux.

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by farsinger

[Wimbochismo]

38 minutes ago, farsinger said:

Uh... oops. I have to many builds >.< I saw "2" and hit post. Also... good catch on the Fade slotting!

Link fixed.

 

I will say I don't usually +5 anything that isn't a basic IO, as I do tend to play a lot of exemp'd content and prefer attuned sets. A quick glance at the old Dark/Dark reminded me that Hami-Os are a thing though and I should slot those into Darkest Night instead of generic End Redux.

 

 

No probs. The build is looking pretty dang good! You're more than fine coming in a little under 45 ranged def with all the -tohit etc. All procced out and good uptime on key abilities. The added slow resistance is great.

 

I don't think accuracy will be an issue with your Tactic's slotting. Confounding is already a pain with lower base acc. At 94% against +4, it's pretty good. That's the lowest one.

 

Should serve you well.

Edited August 6, 2023 by Wimbochismo

[Panache]

Re: Teleport Target and Reverb

I didn’t dip into the Teleport pool, but Reverb sometimes makes me wish I had. It *consistently* gets lost on maps, staying behind and not reattaching after I go find it. Since its power effects are duplicates of mine, I often don’t realize it isn’t keeping up until I’m three or four spawns ahead of it.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Panache