Water/Ice/Ice Feedback

[Renatos1023]

Have been having a blast leveling this Sentinel, and I just hit 50! So far, it has been very solid, especially post-30 when I started slotting some of the uniques. /Ice is one of my favorite defense powersets across all archtypes, which is why I chose that. I thought the heal in Water/ would complement high defenses. I chose the Ice epic pool because of theme and also because the numbers on Frozen Aura seemed pretty good, plus I spend half my time in melee anyways.

 

Since I just hit 50, I have not yet decided which Incarnates I will take - but moving towards Agility Paragon Core for the Defense Buff/Recharge/End. Mod is probably the easiest call to make at the moment.

 

I just re-downloaded Mids for the first time in a long time and I did struggle to put a build together, I didn't realize how much more difficult it was to soft-cap S/L/E/N compared to Melee/Ranged/AoE defense (which are always super easy imo). But I did manage to get S/L/E/N over soft-capped (without Energy Absorption) and get okay recharge along with some other bonuses. As I am not an ace with Mids, I am looking for any feedback.

Please let me know if I didn't upload the build correctly.

 

 

Frozen Tide - Sentinel (Water Blast - Ice Armor).mbd

Edited January 25 by Renatos1023

[Exqzr984]

Hey, I see no one has yet taken a crack at your build.  

 

I suspect it may be because you have chosen Ice as your both your Second and your Epic.  The initial reaction to this has to be "Don't do it!" and who wants to be the one to critique your passion?

 

From a certain perspective,  that of doing as much damage as possible in as little time as possible, there could be alot of critism with your choices, and with suggestions to pull you away from said choices, and they would be valid.  

 

Im not even going to try that.  a hundred others have already done this kind of analysis on other builds and they do it much better than I ever could.  So if doing x trial in y time is the marker, I will have little of value to offer here

 

That said, I suspect that solloing trials in best possible time is not your goal (otherwise why go ice/ice? From what I can tell you lean into the Brute type Sentinel  vs the Scrappertype Sentinel (more tank less damage).  I agree with this approach.

 

If I am correct, my limited experience in this type of play might be of some use. 

 

Boxing:  I dont see a reason to 4 slot this.  I think you should just ignore it.    Consider putting these slots in Water Jet and Dehydrate.

 

Manuevers:  I would recommend dropping this for Hover.  For me, Hover is a must have and a fantastic utnilty skill.  Hovering in Melee is very doable and also allows for some fantastic 3 axis fighting - I spend alot of my time directly above mobs where they try to hit me, but cant. reach.  Slot two Gamblers in Hover and also two in Combat Jumping.  You want 5 Gamblers recharge and regenerations going so drop 2 Reactive and add two more Gamblers there.  If you do this, you also free up 3 more slots perhaps to add to Frozen Armor, Glacial Armour and Health maybe?  I dont know the ins and outs of Ice Armor, if extra slots are of no use there, you might consider putting your freed up slots in Water Burst.

 

Whirpool/Waterburst.  I feel slotting these for damage is a missed opportunity.  If offtank is your goal (and it your choices strongly suggest this), then more control and or debuffs is desireable.  Consider this option in one or both of these.  My simple take on these is they dont do enough damage to warrant investing in damage IOs on them - but they do offer a great go to for battlefield control.   And if you feel you dont need that, I would argue then you dont need Waterburst or Whirlpool at all.  You could skip them both in favor of Kick and Cross Punch. (reference your stating you spend half your time in Melee).

 

Steam Spray - Six slot?  I thiink this power is quite good but it is clunky to use at close range.  If you are having any issues with getting the most use out of it,  You can also consider skipping  this power In favour of  another Epic Power.

 

That is all I can think of for now,and I apologize for its very general nature, but perhaps it might spark some additional creativity while you work on it.

 

Good luck!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 26 by Exqzr984

[Renatos1023]

Thanks for your response, E, but I really disagree with almost all of your opinions.

 

You had it right when you keyed my build in as an alt aggro-mitigator. That is how I want this Sent to be. More of a Tank-ish thing. I think you missed that the 4th slot in Boxing (and also Ice Sword) give 3.75% S/L defense...something that is utterly hard to find in a tight build...Dropping any of those slots would not be possible, because I'd lose that huge chunk of defense. 

 

I almost want to guess that you've never played Water Blast (which is totes fine) but it is an AoE set, dropping Whirlpool and/or Waterburst would kill my damage. Water isn't known for single target, so amping up AoE damage is 100% necessary (regardless of which AT you play Water blast on). Not taking the AOE in Water just means you should go with any other set that has high single-target damage. 

 

I have to say this set combo is solid. I have been running +3 PI contact missions and I am generally the first one into a mob. I do not have all of the aforementioned slots done, my build is like 33% IO'd -- need some inf. But It is solid. 

 

 

[Exqzr984]

My first try at this was ... not empathetic.  I was too dismissive.  So, now ill just speak plainly.

 

I will try to be fair, while at the same time im not going to be tentative in my approach.  And yeah Im calling you out on some of your comments.

 

You comment about having to guess I have never played a Water Primary was a poor attempt to validate your own opinion.  What it showed me is you have not done your research.  If you had, you would have seen my post from Jan 5  still on page 1 - which is self explanatory.  In that thread, there is a tonne of good advice that I aspired to live up to and being motivated by your Water Primary choice,  tried to distill that information, along with my own experience, for your benefit. 

 

I failed because I did not actually understand exactly what you were trying to do.  I apologize.

 

I think I better understand now, but that understanding comes with additional strong opinions on your choices.  Going to be blunt.

 

When I read your post, your unlpeasent reply and reviewed your build  for the second time, I saw contradictions.  You write about theme building but then make some vague comments about  tight slotting and important hard to get stats like S/L Def.  You use the term Alt-aggro Mitigation and add you are often first in (with I think a touch of pride - don't worry I am not above such things as you will see).

 

What I take from your build and your own words is that  you are building and Playing a Psuedo Tank - NOT an Off Tank.   To be an OFF Tank (by generally accepted standards) you MUST have utility and control.  This is not optional.   Because?  This is what replaces your lack of a Taunt.  It is your utility and control that takes the pressure off the actual  tank.  And, when there is no tank, it is utility and control you use in place of a Taunt to stop the enemy from flanking you and geting to your back line.  That is your job, This is you key function as an off tank.  Of course doing damage is important and doing as much as you can is admirable.   But you are a SENTINEL.  Guard, Watch, Protect.  Lead.  Its in the name.  Do that, BE that.  Aspire to it.  A Sentinel Psuedo tank is about as useful as a Sentinel Psuedo Blaster.  A Psuedo Tank in any form is basically a Glorified Meat Shield.   Is that what you want to be?  If so, go for it!  Enjoy.  But would it not just be better to be an actual Tank?  Just saying.  

 

OFF Tanks concepts apply across a spectrum of games, perhaps a little less in total soft core games like CoH but it is particularly important to understand how and why they work.  This is especially true in Professional eSports games - where coincidentaly I coached for many years.

 

I made the mistake of assuming you wanted to play an OFF tank - an actual very useful, often overlooked role on a team.  I tried to look for ways you could do that without being overly critical of what looked to me (at the time) like a misguided build (just my opinion - you do you - its your character and its pve soft core - so what does it matter, really?)

 

When you presented your build as a Theme build I assumed you already knew that Ice Armour and Ice Epic are generally considered to be one of if not the weakest choice  This is not my personal opinion, it is a general consensus with what I have read.  I actually repsected this.  Play something under powered for concept.  Its a noble pursuit.  But then in your response to me, it sounds like you have some min/maxing hidden underneath your theme claims.  O.k. Also fine - you want the best tuned theme build you can make.   Great!  If you are having fun with that, this it what matters.

 

But again this is not an Off Tank.  You do not do enough damage, you have no utilility or contol enhancement sets to shine in the places where it is given, your tanking is going to be sub par  - not your fault, it is what it is - you do not have a taunt and you put 4 slotss in boxing to desperately make up for the fact you are not a tank, trying to be a tank.  That is the very definition of Psuedo Tank.

 

 

Lets just take two example, just two,, because anymore would take forever and I would not even really know where to start on some of what you have done.

 

1..  WaterBurst.  You say you need this  for damage because AoE is Water Main thing and who doesn't know this?  That is simply wrong.  Waterburst can easily be skipped and not missed at all.  Its low damage unpredictable control and can often eat up your Tidal Power - bad unless an emergency dictates - like your scrapper over extending (why do they always do this).  Anyway.  I do entire runs where I dont use it because there are 5 other things already on cool down that are better, more efficient  and just make more sense in that situation.

 

When I do use it, its to help take pressure of a tank in trouble or take some pressure off myself because I had to go in and plug a big hole.  Its a DEFENSIVE, Utility action, not an offensive one.  You do more for your team just targeting the focus down with vulnerable.  By the time you have finished your Vulnerable Pool, Steam (maybe an early Brawler) and Geyser animations, most of the minions should either be dead, controlled or a non threat.  IF your blaster or anyone with any AoE is not taking care of things after your big guns fire - whatever - its not your job to deal with the piddly at that point.  You got bigger things to worry about and scappers love one shotting the left overs - it gives them goosebumps - so let them do it.   You still got to get your master brawler off and get ready to start picking off the bosses with your FULLY tuned, tidal waved Waterjet or use Dehydrate first for an awesome killer debuff, and then a then Swish Swish Waterjet.  Waterjet is GOOD and it DESERVES/NEEDS to be fully slotted with the best you can give it (Dehydrate should also be FULLY slotted but whatever),  Your in melee so you ice sword and Aura need your attention to.  Got nothing to use after all that?  Fine cast a random WB so long as it not holding your Tidal but if your rotation is really that streteched, then Haste has to be a serious consideration.  I just cant see anyone letting you get away with less than full slots on both WJ and Deh.   And if they did, I would take on a debate with them for as long as needed to change their minds.

 

IF you abosolutely feel you got to get another AOE down, 9/10 your steam is ready to go.  Back up or go up and fire it again - and this is why I consider Hover to be a MUST have.  Its too damn good and works in any fight at any height.  Get it.  EVEN if you are facing a group of pinks and you think you want to whilttle them down with Waterburst this is not efficient, it is better to focus fire them down one at a time with ST - ST you need to get in on  Do not try take them down with no damage AoE in the slowest way possible.  Like what are you doing Tickling them?  Every other skill you got is better - Ice Sword?  Yes, even that.  You need to rethink how you use Waterburst or  maybe consider something else - more melee with some cc to yet get more of your beloved S/L defense?  I think I suggested Cross Punch cause its pretty good and does what you need.  That said I personally stayed with WB because I have a stiuational use for it.

 

2. Waterpool.  Alright again you dont need this for damage.  Sure you can slot it for damage, I have done myself.  But experience thus far shows it works better as an uber slow.   Ive tried with everything that looked like it might be good I probably spent 5 Million on unslotters just on testing WP.   I will stick with what I got in it and wanted to share my extensive testing with you.  Consider ( I did not do the math, and dont plan on it) that it might actually do more damage with more slow simply because of how the mobs respond when they are in it.  With more slow they take more ticks, with more slow they get more chances to be Ai confused, not a true confuse but they will sometimes run through it, sometimes run part way then try to escape it.  some try to go around it.  In any case, more ticks applies might just apply more damage over time then less ticks with slightly more damge per tick.  Yes, this is speculative, but I dont care, I dont need it for Dmg.  More Dmg?  Just gravy.  The uber slow is the insane zone control.  you can literally kill any minion long before they get close to getting through it.  Honestly what have you got to lose by trying it out?  A couple million on reslotters?  Ill give them to you just you can actually experience what I am talking about.

 

My Team mates love the control.  And I feel my team and myself are untouchable (when they dont do scrapper things)  But most importantly you have a powerful off tank tool ready to help you quarterback the fight.  It is one of many.  

 

I use Waterburst (for knockup), Dehydrate (Debuff), Whirlpool (Slow), Chain Fences (Immobilize) and Paralysing Jolt (Disorient)  I also carry a few interesting procs for still more of this.  This is how you Off Tank and it works very very well in extensive testing.   Better than my own theory crafting predicted.

 

So you know, I tried the Ice Epic tree and dropped it to go back to Electric.  It just wasnt good for me, the Frozen Aura as particularly uninspiring.  That said, I respect if you are going to stick with it for theme.  So, You can reject my advice at your discretion, it was is freely offered.  But to put a veiled insult in that rejection was an over step.  I was trying to help YOU - not asking for you to help me.  Maybe another Sentinel much wiser than I am (and whose words I read daily and try to eke out as much of their wisdom as I can)  will chime in on this and tell you everything I have said is irrelevant and what you got going on is pure gold.   Awesome - listen to them, I only know about how to be an  OFF tank.

 

IF your goal is to be a Psuedo Tank, using a themed build with some min maxing on the side, while running to be first in, while also perhaps shouting "Look at me, I'm a tank!"  And doing this with a speculative  discount  build, not as yet actually tested and such that you are solid in PI radio+3's.  Congratulations, you have suceeded.  I can find not fault in this instance.  And again I must apologise for my earlier very badly misplaced assumptions.  At least my intent was pure.

 

Hovever, If you want to learn how to be an OFF Ttank,  and drop the whole  Psuedo Tank thing, I would be happy to give you a practical in person demonstration, You can join any of my DA Max runs, where I take all comers through some tough content and actually get them through it safely.  I helped level 1s  get to 20 in less than an hour.  Who afterwards. tell me they had the most fun in the game they have ever had.  I have tell after tell every night from folks asking me what Im doing and can they join.   I aspire to give the best experience possible to anyone who honours me by asking for an invite.  I am WaveSurge on Excelsior, a Vet Level 50 Water/SR main OFF Tank.  I am the only one playing in this partcular style that I know of and I was honestly excited to see another take up the torch.  I genuinely wanted to help and I genuinely wanted to do it in an non intrusive a way as possible so you could live the ice/ice dream and feel good about it..

 

A month ago, I was you.  Asking for help, a litte "unsure fo what to do".  I was given expert advice from awesome people.  I applied these ideas and made some modifications to suit my style.  I  have read a thousand posts on Sentinels, I have put 150 plus hours into my Sentinel Main and another half that into various Sentinel Alts.  I have respeced 5 times, with 100 million spent just on testing ideas.  My current iteration is undefeated in over 200 runs.   Full Incarnate, all accolades and max geared with the best avaialable for the job - And I did this the hard way, no farms, always leading (no free rides).  I worked for it.

 

So, There is no speculation in my advice, its proven experience from hundreds of runs and focused testing.  Seriously, I dont't think your on the right track - not for what you seem to want to do.  Maybe it works elsewhere on another AT, I dont know, I dont really play anything but Sentinels at this point, for me what you got is like a start from scratch thing.  And if you are me, how do you approach commenting on that?  Say it?  Or just try to work around the edges a little bit?  

 

All that said,  let me extend a peace offering.  Just so there are no hard feelings with your ... faux paus, I would like to offer you a full set of Gamblers on me.  Let me help you out a bit with your inf crunch.  Any time on Excelsior, come and claim it.  No conditions.  No Agenda.

 

This will be my last post in this thread - anything else will go private and only at your request.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 28 by Exqzr984

[Renatos1023]

Honestly, I didn't mean to trigger you. This build isn't that much of an issue. I have capped defense to everything I need and more. You just suggested a lot of things that I wouldn't do, because of the limited slots that have. I apologize if I offended you, but suggestions from your original post would've had me losing S/L defense, global recharge, and really just defense in general (hover for maneuvers is a ridiculous swap - hover is not combat friendly). It seemed a good part of your original post was that Sentinels need Hover. Which is a no. Sentinels aren't Blasters. 

 

And you said : "Slot two Gamblers in Hover and also two in Combat Jumping" and "You want 5 Gamblers recharge and regenerations going so drop 2 Reactive and add two more Gamblers there." As if I could slot two uniques in the same power. Sorry, but you apparently have no idea how slotting uniques goes. Cause your option is impossible. I know how to slot my uniques, you should also learn. 

 

You can go ahead and post a chapter maligning my build but gosh, touchy lately? Just because you want to Hover blast on a Sentinel (which makes no sense IMO) doesn't mean the rest of us want to. 

 

IDK why you think /Ice it a weak secondary, that is a you thing, I love it. And it is a very functional secondary - one that actually has a T9 that can be taken (unlike most defensive T9s designed on live). As someone who has played Water on multiple ATs, I simply disagreed with your assessments. Sorry if you took that personally.

 

I can't with this quote. I won't even comment, but I've never met someone so full of themselves. 

11 hours ago, Exqzr984 said:

Hovever, If you want to learn how to be an OFF Ttank,  and drop the whole  Psuedo Tank thing, I would be happy to give you a practical in person demonstration

 

Edited January 28 by Renatos1023

[Exqzr984]

Sorry.

[Psiphon]

9 hours ago, Renatos1023 said:

Honestly, I didn't mean to trigger you. This build isn't that much of an issue. I have capped defense to everything I need and more. You just suggested a lot of things that I wouldn't do, because of the limited slots that have. I apologize if I offended you, but suggestions from your original post would've had me losing S/L defense, global recharge, and really just defense in general (hover for maneuvers is a ridiculous swap - hover is not combat friendly). It seemed a good part of your original post was that Sentinels need Hover. Which is a no. Sentinels aren't Blasters. 

 

And you said : "Slot two Gamblers in Hover and also two in Combat Jumping" and "You want 5 Gamblers recharge and regenerations going so drop 2 Reactive and add two more Gamblers there." As if I could slot two uniques in the same power. Sorry, but you apparently have no idea how slotting uniques goes. Cause your option is impossible. I know how to slot my uniques, you should also learn. 

 

You can go ahead and post a chapter maligning my build but gosh, touchy lately? Just because you want to Hover blast on a Sentinel (which makes no sense IMO) doesn't mean the rest of us want to. 

 

IDK why you think /Ice it a weak secondary, that is a you thing, I love it. And it is a very functional secondary - one that actually has a T9 that can be taken (unlike most defensive T9s designed on live). As someone who has played Water on multiple ATs, I simply disagreed with your assessments. Sorry if you took that personally.

 

I can't with this quote. I won't even comment, but I've never met someone so full of themselves. 

 

You're being a bit nasty aren't you?!

Someone has made the effort to help and you're just plain rude, even if the advice isn't correct or not to your liking try to maintain some common decency.

 

In regards to Hover, it's extremely useful and massively increases survivability. You can stay out of range of all melee attacks while dealing damage, many mobs only have melee attacks so those are completely negated.

Also you can stay out of most -def patches - ice has reasonable -def debuff numbers but not great.

Run your Ice Sentinel in an ITF with and without Hover, the experiences will be very different.

[Exqzr984]

Renatos,

 

I said I would not post here again because, well I wanted to keep it private between us in case I said anything that might... not be easily accepted.

 

But you have insulted me yet again.... In Public.  You did not even have the decency to insult me in Private.  IF you want to take shots at me, fine, I can take it, but do it in a Private message so others don't have to read our silly little spat.

 

I do not see how offering to give you my time is self absorbed (how did you put it?  Full of myself?).  O.k.  Maybe I said it wrong?  Maybe I wrote it too fast and did not consider the inflection of my written cadence? I dont know. 

 

Your at a store.  You ask a complete stranger what they think of the color you have chosen.  They Answer, I think Blue might look better on you.  You reply...

 

Are you stupid?  Have you even ever been shopping before?  That is what you did.  Your *intentions* are not pure.

 

How many times do I have to apologize for not understanding what you were asking for?  Need more?  Sorry!  I again, honestly wanted to help you out by literally showing you what I was talkiing about when I offered to SHOW/TEACH/DEMONSTRATE.   I might have even been willing to come to your server to do this If someone offered to show me stuff in game, that I ASKED for.  I would snap up the opporunity immediately.  In fact, I have many times already.

 

So, to pay it forward I do that sort of thing to help people. How does this make self absorbed/full of myself?  Maybe you see something in me that I don't. I think you added The MOST EVER as well - just to be sure I got your point.  I will self reflect on this.  I might humbly offer the concept that maybe you would consider some self reflection as well.

 

Do I have Pride?  Of course I do ... Who doesn't.   If that is what you meant.  Guilty.  But I say why play if not to feel good about your accomplishments?  Or in my case, get a real joy out of helping others, especially in game, and sometimes in the forums - which I seem to not be very good at, but Im working on that too.  Ill do better in the future, once I get this behind me.  You are the only one in CoH who has called me self absorbed/full of myself after I offered to teach them something. Mayne you feel you have nothing to learn? Maybe you feel you know better than anyone else?  Come on, I still have stuff to learn and I learn every single day, even new players sometimes show me stuff I did NOT know.  So I have to ask you, am I the one being a little touchy? Maybe it's not me.  Just saying.

 

So, look.  One last crack at this.  I think we missed each other on the train a bit here.  I was not trying to give you technical advice.  I DID NOT do the math for you.  No time for that.  What I did was try to offer advice on Play Style and team building.  I feel Stupid actually.  Like I completely missed what you needed.  I see now that is not what you are looking for.  But I must ask, if you already got all the math sewn up - why did you even make this thread in the first place?  I mean what was the point?  

 

Again, another apology.  It is MY FAULT for not understanding you wanted a math debate - If I had known this, I would not have bothered to try - it's not my thing Im not all that good at it  and I defer to others and don't actually debate, I just follow their expert advice.  I mean there is a spread sheet you can access and its freaking amazing - another user has worked years on - go look at that if you want math.

 

All that out of the way.  Now its my turn based on your kicking me in the nuts, not once, but twice.  Ouch dude!  Brace for Impact.

 

Your build is SELFISH.  In my worth maybe nothing opinion its an actualy Liability on a team.  FINE for radios.  Not fine for anything else.  You literally do nothing to help a team.  Its like you like playing tanks and thought - Ill take tank build concepts and put them on a Sentinel and ignore EVERYTHING else.  Boo. Please dont dont this, I think it will make Sentinels look bad.  I love the Sentinel AT and if I am sensitive anywhere its probably in my defense of them.  I am truly an unapologetic Sentinel Fan Boy.  Chuckle if you wish.

 

That said,  I would not like you on my crew (I would still accept you of course, but wouldn't be a good fit).  I would not even like like doing warm up runs in Moth Cemetary your hero in its current form.  Who knows, you and I might get along fine outside of all this, but sorry, don't like your build at all.  Even as a Theme build.  You see, like an idiot, I actually thought that because you were doing a Theme build, you would be open to PLAYSTYLE concepts and jumped all over it like a puppy wanting treats - a puppy you kicked by the way and then when I yelped about it, kicked me again to shut me up.  Are you done or you going to do it a third time?

 

So... Play the way you want, but dont delude yourself into thinking you got something usefull happening with your build - from a team standpoint for sure it's bad, and I can't say it would work well Soloing either - but I admit I could be wrong on this - its just a passing observation.  You see I understand that Sentinels are NOT tanks - to try to be a tank, when you are not is called PSUEDO Tank.  Of all the things you can do in CoH Psuedo Tank is probably the Most pointless (ok maybe MM no pets is worse).  Why?  Because any level one with any build can Psuedo Tank.  Just stand there and take some hits.  Whether they die or not does not matter.  They just need to distract some stuff for a bit while the damage dealers get their skills in.  If your character is on my crew, whether you are alive or dead is of no consequence so long as you last a few seconds, you have done your job.  So I ask you honestly, from my heart - is that what you want to do?

 

If yes.  Great!  Please ignore everything that I have said and do you.  But, if you want to actually be ... a key part of a great team, consider OFF tank and thus get Control and Utility to help your team (Frozen Aura aint going to cut it).    Not only will you Do MORE DAMAGE, Contol like a Boss, and Tank like Goldilocks (just the right amount), you will be the pefect mid range quarter back leader all Sentinels can be, you and your team will have a better time.  Sentinels make GREAT Off Tanks.  There is no such thing as a good Psuedo Tank.  And I apologize for being the one to tell you this.  But it's the straight up truth.  To say to me you went 4 deep in Boxing to get x s/l deffence like you found the gold mine of builds ... is just flat out bad (i mean for me, its just my opinion) - maybe some min maxers like this?   And to do that you gimp your Dehydrate and Waterjet.  For me, that is like WOW, really?  Your a Sentinel, that is your go to STs and you dont even slot them fully.  I just honestly dont even know how to tell you not to do that.  Except Don't?

 

To break it down clear.

 

Fun Thematic Awesome Meat Shield:  Yes? - Good, you're fine, Have at it. But I must add this direction made your post frivolous.   No?  There is work to do.  And for a time, I was the only one trying to help you do the work.  Another has commented on Hover and I agree with them.

 

Now I tried to communicate all of my thoughts (even when really annoyed at you) in a constructive way and you call me Self Absorbed.  Thanks.

 

I feel (just my opinion, others may disagree) - Your entire build is self absobed and your attitude in forum is... well, lets just say, I hope you are different IRL - actually I am sure you are. But maybe, based on what I have read and seen it would be fair to me to suggest the ouside possibility you might share some traits with your build.   I hope  not, but it could be true.  This is just a shot in the dark though and I am NOT actually accusing you of this - just speculating on hypothetical possibilities.   

 

So, I have already wasted more time on this than I should, but I just cant let two face punches slide.  Maybe your just trolling me at this point, Im not sure and I would never accuse anyone of this, but heck, please don't insult me a third time at least not in Public, vent in private all you want.  I won't even vent back.  Use me as a punching bag, if you got to get out some frustration, just not in Public... deal?

 

Alright my last attempt at the smallest piece of advice that is concpetual and NOT math related that you might be open to.  Drop your Waterburst and put those slots into Waterjet and Dehydrate.  This is what I would do.  Now I understand this will LOWER some of your defenses and that is NOT your goal.  BUT, even if you ened up dying because of this lowered defence (which you likely wont in PI 3s, lets be honest.).  You will do more DAMAGE and that means you will be MORE useful before you die - if that even happens.  And you do not die, you will thank me for the power you feel when you cast these awesome fully slotted skills..  a 4 slotted WB, for me has almost no point in a fight.  Fully slot it, one slot it or skip it.  Ignore the DEF/REZ  stats I dont think you actually need.  At least try it and see if im right and if not, go back to what you had.   And yeah, reconsider Hover.  Go anywhere, anytime as needed and quickly.  I think Iron Man would take offense at you suggesting Sentinels dont need Hover.  Would love to be in on that debate.  Hullk might like your Superjump but he is not a Sentinel is he?  Heck, you could even just drop Superjump and get a Skiff or live off of Athletic Run - I mean why not?  Wait maybe you slotted SJump with something and this suggestion is anathema to you?  I dont know, did not actually look at your build again, going from memory.

 

And now you have you have a choice.  I really want to resolve this on good terms.  I have put a like on each of your posts as a gesture.  If I said anyting in a way that was poorly written, unitended, I am Sorry.  But you did tigger me and if my response was too forceful and punitive, forgive me.  I think though it needed to be said - for your ultimate benefit.  At least some of it did, perhaps some of it was reactionary.  But I had that right after your personal attack.

 

I have offered you an olive branch.  Ignore my advice, its fine with me ... it is the nature of giving advice.  I offered you a hand shake to put this behind us in very pratical assistance sort of way since there is literally nothing else I can do to help you out at this point.  Am I wrong here?  Maybe.  Is it you?  Maybe. Does not matter. Time to move forward with a firm grip.

 

Full  set of Gambler on me anytime.  I am not asking for anything in return, no apology no backing off your stance.  Stay true to yourself.  Do you want it and let us maybe be friends at some point in the future.?  Last try.

Edited January 29 by Exqzr984

[Grimm2]

I like what you did with this build, in terms of what can be done on a budget. You don't see too many Winter- and Purple-less builds, and especially as folks are returning or showing up for the first time, they're valuable. I dig it. That its been performing well in your solo tests is a good sign.

 

I'm of the opinion that your attacks should be slotted for damage. It is an interesting idea to slot those for control, and to build a controllery Sentinel. If you want to take the advise to expand that, I think an AOE immobilize is all you need. I'll affirm that skipping Water Burst and/or Whirlpool is a silly idea, and it'll knockdown and slow slotted for damage or not. 

 

Hover does a lot for your survivability, as it looks like you know. My DP/SR sent has no travel power but Ninja Run, and I think for other defense-based sents, melee is not a terrible place to be.

 

I'm no Mids Wizard, and am more used to looking at high-recharge builds for Sents, so I'll poke at a rebuild for a higher nuke uptime. I see right now that Hoarfrost and a Winter's Gift Slow Resist IO in Superjump is superior to Frost Protection, in terms of your HP total and still maintaining 100% slow resist. Just need to get Hoarfrost perma to have that be an actual option.

[Grimm2]

Ok, here's a no-inf-is-safe kinda look at this combo. I was able to squeeze in Hasten, and a Force Feedback +rech proc, and a whole lot more global acc and recharge, with defenses that still surpass 45% softcap. The endurance use is still crazy, and a slot could be shifted to Ice Sword for more accuracy. The set already has +Perception, so you don't need that particular unique. Still 100% slow resist so you'll have capped HP all the time with Hoarfrost. Twice the uptime for your nuke. Icy Bastion up 1/3 of the time. Frozen Aura and Steam Spray can knockdown.

 

If you'd rather the FF proc in Water Burst, you could put it there with a Posi's 5-set and put Sentinel's Ward in Hydro Blast.

 

This looks fun to play! However you build it, have fun.

Sentinel (Water Blast - Ice Armor) -ice for Psiphon.mbd

[Exqzr984]

1 hour ago, Grimm2 said:

I like what you did with this build, in terms of what can be done on a budget. You don't see too many Winter- and Purple-less builds, and especially as folks are returning or showing up for the first time, they're valuable. I dig it. That its been performing well in your solo tests is a good sign.

 

 

Thank for entering this conversation and cutting through the noise to offer some productive information.  

 

I should clarify my thoughts

 

Waterburst:  My advice got a little burried in the cross fire.  I do not suggest that it just be skipped as a given.  On the contrary, I use it.  It was in the context of the build, looking to tank first and then do damage.  I advised I thought this was admirable/Noble.  So, in that a 4 slot WB is not doing much and the slots might be better served elsewhere.  Lose the power, gain the slots.   That Knockup is not a sure thing.  And also the issue I have with Waterburst is that its up and Tidaled - this creates problems for me in that I dont want to use it when Tidaled.  Its Guyser, Waterjet, Dehydrate and then Waterburst for that bonus.

 

Also If I have Dehydate up, I will always use that before a WaterBurst.  Especially after popping Master Brawler.  There are so many times that Waterburst is up and I just skip it for something else.  In the context of what the OP was trying to do, I thought, well imo, he needs to fully slot Waterjet and Dehydrate.  It could be argued they are ST and thus not as important to a AoE Waterbuild, but by experience, I just love them fully slotted..  And they are both a guaranteed six slot.  

 

Whirlpool, I don't skip this either  And I am  NOT recommending it be skipped in a starndard  Water build.  Only in the context of what the OP was trying to do.  Waterpool is ... problematic to cast when you are surrounded.  I imagined that the OP was not using it for set up before heading into Melee.  So I thought being already deep into Fighting he might consder dropping Brust and Pool. and get Kick and Cross Punch.  He gains 8 slots and could probably deslot Boxing put those into Cross Punch - because he now gets to use those insteal of muling them and gains another 3 slots.  That cross punch is going to do more damage than Waterburst or Whirlpool and Maybe even more than both of them combined, and IT has a CC if you back it up with Kick - Hey it was theory.  Honestly not a bad try for a TANK focused Melee build.   OP doesn't like, no problem but we were supposed to be Theory Crafting a concept.  Hence I did that.

 

IT should also be noted the OP has not actually tested the build.  They are still working on it.  And also in the light, I though it would be a good opportunity to try something different ideas - like Cross Punch - whic;h also for me fits his themre.  

 

So, yes, I agree in almost everry situation a Water Primary is best sticking with WaterBurst and Whirlpool.  But in off Meta Builds designed to be in Melee AMAP, I Think there is an opportuniity to pick up a few more Melee skills.  I believe as I write this it would work - for off meta builds

 

My overall goal was this.  Get 6 slots into Waterjet and Dehydrate (I think Dehydrates adds some supplementary survive that is important for melee focus and all the more reason to 6 slot it), Get more CC, Unmule the Boxing slots and do all of this without messing up the core theme of what he was trying to do.  I am guilty of not explaning it in greater detail right at the beginning.  I should have, with a better argument for what I was suggesting.

 

It was all Theory advice while OPs character was still in a place where it could be debated. 

 

 

Edited January 29 by Exqzr984

[Exqzr984]

38 minutes ago, Grimm2 said:

Ok, here's a no-inf-is-safe kinda look at this combo. I was able to squeeze in Hasten, and a Force Feedback +rech proc, and a whole lot more global acc and recharge, with defenses that still surpass 45% softcap. The endurance use is still crazy, and a slot could be shifted to Ice Sword for more accuracy. The set already has +Perception, so you don't need that particular unique. Still 100% slow resist so you'll have capped HP all the time with Hoarfrost. Twice the uptime for your nuke. Icy Bastion up 1/3 of the time. Frozen Aura and Steam Spray can knockdown.

 

If you'd rather the FF proc in Water Burst, you could put it there with a Posi's 5-set and put Sentinel's Ward in Hydro Blast.

 

This looks fun to play! However you build it, have fun.

Sentinel (Water Blast - Ice Armor) -ice for Psiphon.mbd 43.1 kB · 0 downloads

I like this. Clean and elegant.  But yeah the Superior Sentinels could get expensive.  3 Slotted Gamblers - I think is better than 5 - 5 seems uneeded. Unslot the boxing.  Here is a question though, do you really need both Whirlpool and Froszen Aura to be 6 slotted?   And would it be feasible to drop one or the other for an Immobilze?  It alot of investment on two Tick AOES that take time to cast.

[Grimm2]

1 hour ago, Exqzr984 said:

So, yes, I agree in almost everry situation a Water Primary is best sticking with WaterBurst and Whirlpool.  But in off Meta Builds designed to be in Melee AMAP, I Think there is an opportuniity to pick up a few more Melee skills.  I believe as I write this it would work - for off meta builds

I did not post to respond to you, but I will address this. You saw him post that he wanted "Tank-ish" and offered build suggestions around what you thought that meant. I don't think he agrees with your take on it. I disagree that builds with Ranged powersets who want to be able to survive melee range need Melee powers. Ranged powers work fine in melee.

 

The expensive build I posted tried to adhere to his power choices while improving it along the recharge/HP/proc metrics I find useful. We'll see what he thinks if he shows back up.

 

I chose to slot Whirlpool and Frozen Aura as I did for the set bonuses for e/n def, other set bonuses, and enhancement values.