Fire/Kin questions

[ThePhlebotomist]

Hi!

 

I have a fire/kin that I really like that I've built based on @Caldazar4's build over here. I'm working towards the attached build (which is absurdly expensive) which will have capped S/L resists, 69.5% fire resist, 38/31/32% melee/ranged/AoE defenses. It seems like it'll have good recharge and damage over time too.

 

Usually I play Defenders (including kin defs) and am more support focused, but want this character to also be able to contribute a lot of AoE damage in addition to buffs and be able to do a little soloing.

 

Some questions (you can assume I'll always have some damage buffs from Fulcrum Shift):

1. Should I be slotting Fire Cages for damage instead of Superior Will of the Controller (which has a damage proc but is otherwise good for the accuracy, recharge, and defense bonuses)? The base damage seems so low maybe it's not worth it but with Containment maybe anything helps?
2. Is putting damage procs in Char useful? Or better to just fill it out with Lockdown or something for more set bonuses?
3. Is it useful to slot Bonfire for damage (after the knockback to knockdown IO) like this or better to use those slots for other things?
4. Generally it feels weird coming from Kin Defs to have no slots in Transference or Fulcrum Shift! But it does seem like with the global buffs they'd be okay. What do you think?

 

Thanks!

 

*edit*

 

I should mention that in the build I took Inertial Reduction and then Superspeed (with +Stealth IO). I just like having my pets be able to follow me all over quickly. But Siphon Power would probably be more useful.

 

20240819 FireKin Exp 4 - Controller (Fire Control - Kinetics).mbd

Edited August 20 by ThePhlebotomist
Explaining use of inertial reduction

[Tanked King Leo]

Congrats on joining the ranks of Demi Gods as fire kin. 

 

Procs in Char is great but Bonfire with procs IMO is an absolute must. Here is my current build and a absolute unit. You don't need any recharge on bonfire for it to be perma and it hits just fine. Similar survival and higher end drain but who needs end with Transference? 

Controller (Fire Control - Kinetics).mbd

Edited August 21 by Tanked King Leo

[Without_Pause]

20 hours ago, ThePhlebotomist said:

1. Should I be slotting Fire Cages for damage instead of Superior Will of the Controller (which has a damage proc but is otherwise good for the accuracy, recharge, and defense bonuses)? The base damage seems so low maybe it's not worth it but with Containment maybe anything helps?
2. Is putting damage procs in Char useful? Or better to just fill it out with Lockdown or something for more set bonuses?
3. Is it useful to slot Bonfire for damage (after the knockback to knockdown IO) like this or better to use those slots for other things?
4. Generally it feels weird coming from Kin Defs to have no slots in Transference or Fulcrum Shift! But it does seem like with the global buffs they'd be okay. What do you think?

1. I would slot Fire Cages for damage. WotC is for adding in control. I use that in Flashfire.

2. I use the other ATO set for Char, but slotting in damage here is also good. I use Lockdown on things like Cinders, so it can hold bosses.

3. I slot for damage with the KB to KD proc. 

4. Generally yes, Transference and Fulcrum need Acc to hit, but there are a number of people who just put enough +ToHit into a build to skip out on adding Acc at times. I don't have a magical target number for +ToHit, but I do know harder targets can frustrate some of my characters with Acc and higher +ToHit, but that's soloing on higher diff against specifically defensive targets.  

[ThePhlebotomist]

10 hours ago, Tanked King Leo said:

Congrats on joining the ranks of Demi Gods as fire kin. 

 

Procs in Char is great but Bonfire with procs IMO is an absolute must. Here is my current build and a absolute unit. You don't need any recharge on bonfire for it to be perma and it hits just fine. Similar survival and higher end drain but who needs end with Transference? 

 

Aaa thanks for posting your build! Very cool -- seems like more damage, perma-hasten, not dramatically less defense, and less expensive too!

 

[ThePhlebotomist]

3 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

1. I would slot Fire Cages for damage. WotC is for adding in control. I use that in Flashfire.

2. I use the other ATO set for Char, but slotting in damage here is also good. I use Lockdown on things like Cinders, so it can hold bosses.

3. I slot for damage with the KB to KD proc. 

4. Generally yes, Transference and Fulcrum need Acc to hit, but there are a number of people who just put enough +ToHit into a build to skip out on adding Acc at times. I don't have a magical target number for +ToHit, but I do know harder targets can frustrate some of my characters with Acc and higher +ToHit, but that's soloing on higher diff against specifically defensive targets.  

 

Awesome, thank you~! I hadn't even thought about WotC in Flashfire but makes a lot of sense.

 

[Wimbochismo]

The builds posted are pretty tanky with multilayered defenses and they do great aoe dmg while focusing well on controls.

 

I'm surprised no one mentioned though, a big part of soloing involves having a single target dmg rotation for hard targets. Without it your soloing is going to revolve around how fast you can whittle down bosses. If you want to be able to have an easier time, you should 100% proc out Char and at least pick up Fire Blast.

 

As to Bonfire, most just put the KB-KD and use it as soft cc. Procs in powers like Bonfire are normalized to only activate every 10s, with a reduced % chance based on larger radius size. In addition I believe someone figured out that procs themselves require accuracy slotting in the power to hit. The most proccable aoe power is usually Flashfire, it just needs lots of accuracy.

 

If you can slot Fire Cages for dmg it's worth it, especially if you're low on other options. Can be pretty spammable. My favorite thing to do is add 5 piece Posi (without the recharge piece) + another proc.

 

Also don't rely on Agility Core if you can, it acts like slotting recharge into powers and lowers the proc chances.

 

Lastly, Siphon Speed is the lynchpin that revolves around your own recharge. This build generally needs good recharge, don't forget about it. You can set the stacks in mids to 1-3 stacks to boost your recharge. You can reasonably expect to hit it once every ~60s for 1 stack. If you're diligent and press it every ~30s set it at 2 stacks, ~20s set it at 3 stacks.

 

Here's a build example to show you more options. It strips out some defenses for dmg basically, it just lacks slow resistance. Still around 39 ranged def, 50 s/l res, excellent end management. Perma Hasten around 2 stacks of Siphon Speed. Ranged def bc the goal is to Flashfire (procced) at ranged, move in with Hot Feet, Fulcrum, and Fireball. Things should be mostly dead by the time Flashfire wears off. Full single target attack rotation.

Controller (Fire Control - Kinetics).mbd

[Tanked King Leo]

On 8/21/2024 at 8:40 PM, Wimbochismo said:

The builds posted are pretty tanky with multilayered defenses and they do great aoe dmg while focusing well on controls.

 

I'm surprised no one mentioned though, a big part of soloing involves having a single target dmg rotation for hard targets. Without it your soloing is going to revolve around how fast you can whittle down bosses. If you want to be able to have an easier time, you should 100% proc out Char and at least pick up Fire Blast.

 

As to Bonfire, most just put the KB-KD and use it as soft cc. Procs in powers like Bonfire are normalized to only activate every 10s, with a reduced % chance based on larger radius size. In addition I believe someone figured out that procs themselves require accuracy slotting in the power to hit. The most proccable aoe power is usually Flashfire, it just needs lots of accuracy.

 

If you can slot Fire Cages for dmg it's worth it, especially if you're low on other options. Can be pretty spammable. My favorite thing to do is add 5 piece Posi (without the recharge piece) + another proc.

 

Also don't rely on Agility Core if you can, it acts like slotting recharge into powers and lowers the proc chances.

 

Lastly, Siphon Speed is the lynchpin that revolves around your own recharge. This build generally needs good recharge, don't forget about it. You can set the stacks in mids to 1-3 stacks to boost your recharge. You can reasonably expect to hit it once every ~60s for 1 stack. If you're diligent and press it every ~30s set it at 2 stacks, ~20s set it at 3 stacks.

 

Here's a build example to show you more options. It strips out some defenses for dmg basically, it just lacks slow resistance. Still around 39 ranged def, 50 s/l res, excellent end management. Perma Hasten around 2 stacks of Siphon Speed. Ranged def bc the goal is to Flashfire (procced) at ranged, move in with Hot Feet, Fulcrum, and Fireball. Things should be mostly dead by the time Flashfire wears off. Full single target attack rotation.

Controller (Fire Control - Kinetics).mbd 40.63 kB · 14 downloads

I don't know about the proc rate in Bonfire. I thought the 10s CD was only in toggles but its worth some testing. Also, my build is definitely more tanky.  I tend to build for survivability first in most things. That's the beauty of this game. There are so many ways to build your character. Thanks for the info. I will definitely be checking some info on procs and educating myself. As I rarely solo i am definitely not an expert in solo trolling.

Edited August 28 by Tanked King Leo

[Wimbochismo]

7 hours ago, Tanked King Leo said:

I don't know about the proc rate in Bonfire. I thought the 10s CD was only in toggles but its worth some testing. Also, my build is definitely more tanky.  I tend to build for survivability first in most things. That's the beauty of this game. There are so many ways to build your character. Thanks for the info. I will definitely be checking some info on procs and educating myself. As I rarely solo i am definitely not an expert in solo trolling.

 

Procs are pretty weird. Some of my information comes from different sources throughout the years. One of the original proc threads is this one:

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/5290-procs-per-minute-ppm-information-guide/

 

The 10s CD is in toggles but also pseudopets like Bonfire, Rain of Fire etc. I think some pseudopets have a decent chance of activation on initial drop but it could vary by power. There's also that accuracy to potentially account for. I just generally stay away from proccing toggles/pseudopets and proc instant activation powers as a rule of thumb. Saves me the headache of trying to calculate what I'm getting.

 

But definitely do your own testing! Bonfire could be amazing for procs, I mostly use it as additional soft cc.