Poison/Water build help

[Valeraxiel]

So, I originally played a Poison/Rad to 50, and fell in love with the primary (I know, I know, it "sucks"). But, much like anyone who has taken the set to 50 has realized, there are a few things that you have to juggle that most other sets don't have to worry about:

 

1)Melee survivability: Because the T9 is amazing, but it being an Aura means you need to be tanky enough to live in melee range.

 

2)Mez res: If you get hard CC'd, your toggs turn off. No toggs=no debuff/buff=death. Pretty much mandates taking Clarion, which leads me to...

 

3)Endurance: Very end heavy set, between the toggles, the attack chain, mobility (sprint, mostly, while in mission) the active debuff clickies, etc. And being forced to take Clarion means you cant cheat with Ageless

 

4)Healing/Regen: Since you don't have a self heal, you need to stack regen or self heal procs to keep yourself upright. Because even through all the debuffs and self defenses, damage occasionally gets through.

 

   That makes any Poison build very tight, from the getgo. Attached is my attempt at making it all work. I shifted from Rad to Water mostly for Dehydrate, but also because thematically I can color it to look like poison/toxic. I also shifted from Dark Mastery to Elec for a "Gimme End" button. But I need more experienced builders to help me out. I've been beating my head into this for days, and maybe there are things I'm not seeing. I don't like how high my Recov/Usage end ratio is, but again, there are a lot of things to balance. I'm not 100% locked into any choice/sets here other than Poison, itself. PLEASE help, its greatly appreciated.

PoisonDefSelfBuild.mbd

[Wimbochismo]

I've got an Earth/Poison Controller and Beam/Poison Corruptor. Something about Venomous Gas draws agro like a moth to a flame, even with a tank occasionally. Probably the safest I've experienced is high ranged def on the Corruptor and Hovering just above enemies heads. Melee attacks are 7ft, melee auras are 8ft, Venomous is 15ft. You can juuuust be at "ranged" and still hit a surprisingly large number of mobs, then you just have to worry about some aoe. 

 

You've got plenty of powers to make yourself safe here like Thunder Strike, Water Burst, Poison Trap etc. Just figured I'd throw it out as an option seeing as you've got some surprisingly high ranged defense going on. Kiting and managing cc is something I've done on the Controller.

 

I don't think that endurance is going to be a huge issue with what you've put together here. For Defender's, the Vigilance inherent also pulls some weight on Teams. Technically your accuracy vs +3 (which is the metric I usually use assuming an easy Alpha Incarnate) is solid for the most part. You could just use the Kismet +acc in Maneuvers or CJ. This means you don't need to run Tactic's all the time and it puts your end in a decent spot. Also switch the tohit/rech piece in VG to the rech/end piece, it's a difference of like 1 tohit for much better end.

 

I'll give a build breakdown so you can maximize what you have a bit better:

• Paralytic Poison isn't really needed and you could use those slots elsewhere. Drop it for Vengeance as a LotG mule.
• Remove the chance to heal from Stamina. It's nice to have but Dehydrate should be fairly solid. Especially if you slot it with some healing in some of my next advice.
• Give a slot to Thunder Strike for a kb-kd slot if you'd like.
• Hydro Blast has a higher dpa than Aqua. If you want you can switch it. Add 2 slots to this power.
• Split the Superior Vigilant Assault in 2 between Hydro Blast and Dehydrate. This gives stronger recharge and more end.
• Place 3 Thunderstrike in Hydro.
• Place 3 Prev Med in Dehydrate for heal, heal/end, and proc.
• Unless you really want that aoe def in which case switch Sup Vig Assault full set to Hydro Blast and 3 Thunderstrike 3 Prev Med to Dehydrate.
• Add a slot to Maneuvers or CJ for Kismet.
• Poison Trap needs accuracy. Switch some procs for +acc pieces and maybe get some 2 piece bonuses.
• In Hasten +5 your recharges by pressing + on numpad when hovering over.

That should put you in a solid spot and you can choose to toggle on/off Tactic's. You could also add a slot to VG for -def as it is also pretty good. Maybe even remove a slot from Power Sink if you end up feeling your end is good.

[Uun]

I've got a Poison/Sonic defender and an Illusion/Poison controller. In addition to the comments above:

• There are alternatives to Clarion. On my defender I've got Rune of Protection and Hybrid/Melee, which allows me to take Ageless.
• I would devote more slots to Envenom if you can spare them. In addition to the -res and -def, it's your only source of -regen (which stacks). It also procs reasonably well and takes the Achilles' Heel proc.
• In addition to requiring accuracy, Poison Trap is useful defensively if you slot for hold duration. After a lot of experimentation, I've settled on 5x Unbreakable Constraint or Gladiator's Net (including the %dmg proc) plus one additional %dmg proc.
• Achilles' Heel proc only has a chance to fire every 10s in Venomous Gas. I would use this slot elsewhere. You could also drop a piece of Dark Watcher's Despair. You're at ED max with 3 pieces and the 4th piece isn't doing anything for you.
• 6-slot Thunder Strike w/ Obliteration (for the melee defense bonus). Also, Thunder Strike does knockdown so KB>KD isn't required.
• Add a slot to Charged Armor for 4x Unbreakable Guard (for the melee defense bonus).
• Drop a slot from Weave.

[Valeraxiel]

Ok, I've taken the inputs, and this is what I came up with. I moved 2 slots over to Envenom, but other than the Achilles' proc, I didn't really know what direction to go. So I threw some Hamis in to double down on -Regen. I would've had to do way more juggling to fit the Sorcery pool, so I opted to stay with Melee/Clarion. How does this look, now?

PoisonDefSelfBuild.mbd

[Psyonico]

I'm almost positive you can't enhance -regen.  I'd either slot an Accurate defense rebuff set or a Lysosome instead.

[Valeraxiel]

Mids is showing the -Regen being improved by the Hami-O. Unless this is a false positive, it looks like you can.

[Psyonico]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's a false positive in that Mids just see regen as regen, whether positive or negative, and therefore shows it enhancing.

[Uun]

3 minutes ago, Valeraxiel said:

Mids is showing the -Regen being improved by the Hami-O. Unless this is a false positive, it looks like you can.

Normally, -regen powers are flagged to ignore enhancements and other boosts. Envenom doesn't have this flag. This is almost certainly an oversight. In any case, as the power doesn't accept healing enhancements, the healing component of the HO won't work. I just confirmed this on the beta server.

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=defender_buff.poison.envenom&at=defender

 

In any case, what you want to slot in Envenom is accuracy and recharge (so you can stack the -regen) or an Accurate Defense Debuff set. For example you could slot Analyze Weakness: acc/rech and acc/end/rech.

[Wimbochismo]

2 hours ago, Valeraxiel said:

Ok, I've taken the inputs, and this is what I came up with. I moved 2 slots over to Envenom, but other than the Achilles' proc, I didn't really know what direction to go. So I threw some Hamis in to double down on -Regen. I would've had to do way more juggling to fit the Sorcery pool, so I opted to stay with Melee/Clarion. How does this look, now?

PoisonDefSelfBuild.mbd 42.56 kB · 1 download

 

What you've put together is looking really solid! I don't think you're missing much with that small recharge bonus in VG so the hami is a good alternative. 

[Uun]

Small nit - in Venomous Gas, swap the rech/end  piece for -tohit.

[Uncle Shags]

Funny coincidence, I just dusted off my Poison/Water last night for the first time in several months.  Had a blast, then saw this.

 

First off, I don't know why people don't like Poison.  It's fantastic.  Like you said, you have to build it right, but once you do it's super sturdy (I basically tanked for ITF last night), and debuffs like no other.  And because of all the -res the damage is really nice.  Not sure why the hate - I think envenom used to be single target, and people still hold a grudge for that?  Idk...

 

As far as your build, it's great.  I'm comparing it to mine and found a few things you did that I like better.  The couple things I think to consider are:

 

1. I disagree with the suggestion that envenom needs more slots.  Your global accuracy and recharge are high enough that slotting for it makes no meaningful difference in that power.  4.59 seconds is fast, and Achilles Heel is good enough IMO.

2. You might consider turning water jet into a procced attack.  It works really well for that because of it's enhanced version.

3. Maybe look at dehydrate?  Putting heals in it doesn't do much.  With pure damage slotting mine does 44 more dmg and 4 less heal.  Small thing, but worth considering.

4. I'm not a super proccy kind of guy and usually like the bonuses more, but word on the street is poison trap (and water jet, above) does well with them.  Mine with procs does 350 more damage.  Not a big deal and maybe not worth it to lose 10% rech, but it's an idea.

 

Most of the above ideas are just subjective and nothing I'd really push for.  Other than the envenom.  I really don't think it needs two extra slots that you could probably find better use for elsewhere.

 

I'm glad you enjoy spreading the tainted water too!  My dude has a disease theme.  Something about squirting green, brown, and red pus and rot all over everything makes me cackle.

Edited November 13 by Uncle Shags
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