Street Level Shenanigans: Galaxy Schmalaxy (Rogue, level 1-10)

[Forager]

Edit: Arc removed for major work. Thank you all for the extremely useful feedback.

Edited January 2 by Forager

[Kyksie]

On the first mission I punched some Arachnos, then some Clockwork, then more Arachnos, then a bunch of guys at random, but the mission won't end.

[sponazgul]

9 minutes ago, Kyksie said:

On the first mission I punched some Arachnos, then some Clockwork, then more Arachnos, then a bunch of guys at random, but the mission won't end.

 

Have you tried negotiating with them? (Now I want to try this mission out...)

[Forager]

1 hour ago, Kyksie said:

On the first mission I punched some Arachnos, then some Clockwork, then more Arachnos, then a bunch of guys at random, but the mission won't end.

 

I'm sorry. What did the objective window say?

 

My best guess based on what you're saying is that one of the Clockwork from the boss spawn got loose on that map. The "only boss" option doesn't seem to function or I would almost always use it.

 

The Arachnos are an optional sidequest from Daniels. When you finish the clockwork you just have to go find where you parked.

[sponazgul]

I went through and figured out the objectives, which had to be inferred from the dialog in the mission objective text. I appreciated that - I've never seen formatting being applied to the mission objective text.

 

Spoiler

I didn't listen to the contact's directions, and that had me help the detective (that I suppose I didn't need to) and that spawned more optional objective text which did add some flavor. I figured out to look for a car, and then another car.

 

Second mission was over so quickly, I felt like I had cheated.

 

Third mission was very straightforward.

 

The fourth mission was a bit challenging, I had been trained by the first mission on how to interpret the dialog of the mission objective text.

 

I think it works functionally for what you are advertising it as - a mission for low level characters to feel like they're just getting started.  I was disappointed by the lack of clue text to kind of give a flavor summation of things, or really any text from Forager other than vague "now you do this, now you do that"

[Forager]

1 hour ago, sponazgul said:

I was disappointed by the lack of clue text to kind of give a flavor summation of things, or really any text from Forager other than vague "now you do this, now you do that"

 

Forager being vague and unhelpful is part of the story, but I didn't intend for him to be actually vague and unhelpful. Sorry about that.

 

Of course... I thought it was all very clear... because I wrote it. My intention was to keep the mission intro as short as possible and then drive the plot through the objective window and the action. I thought glancing up at radio traffic while fighting would not only be more fun then reading paragraphs, it felt more realistic Maybe clue text could smooth it over a bit, since the clues at least ding and give a notification. I'll think on that. I tried to lay it on thick without being corny, but the window is not meant to really be a puzzle or "hints." It's meant to be taken very literally.

 

Thank you for the feedback. I'll see if a few more people return similar experiences.

[sponazgul]

1 hour ago, Forager said:

 

Forager being vague and unhelpful is part of the story, but I didn't intend for him to be actually vague and unhelpful. Sorry about that.

 

Of course... I thought it was all very clear... because I wrote it. My intention was to keep the mission intro as short as possible and then drive the plot through the objective window and the action. I thought glancing up at radio traffic while fighting would not only be more fun then reading paragraphs, it felt more realistic Maybe clue text could smooth it over a bit, since the clues at least ding and give a notification. I'll think on that. I tried to lay it on thick without being corny, but the window is not meant to really be a puzzle or "hints." It's meant to be taken very literally.

 

Thank you for the feedback. I'll see if a few more people return similar experiences.

 

I definitely want to highlight my appreciation for you doing something novel and cool with the mission objective text.

[Forager]

1 hour ago, sponazgul said:

 

I definitely want to highlight my appreciation for you doing something novel and cool with the mission objective text.

 

Thanks a lot for taking the time to check it out.

[Kyksie]

I tried it again and was able to complete the arc this time. The idea of 'new hero who can't fit in' is fairly novel, there are a few touches of humor, and I like the innovative use of nav bar text. However, the player is never told what they're doing, or for who, or why. Details are sparse with no clues or contact bio.

 

The main problem comes at the end of the arc, where an Arachnos target summons ambush waves at 75%, 50% and 25% health. This is a big no-no when the player has been reduced to level 10. I was able to beat it with a handful of large inspirations, but may players will fail.

 

 

On the plus side, I encountered a fun bug when the mission ended...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2024 by Kyksie

[Forager]

17 minutes ago, Kyksie said:

However, the player is never told what they're doing, or for who, or why. Details are sparse with no clues or contact bio.

 

The main problem comes at the end of the arc, where an Arachnos target summons ambush waves at 75%, 50% and 25% health. This is a big no-no when the player has been reduced to level 10. I was able to beat it with a handful of large inspirations, but may players will fail.

 

Can you give me a specific instance where the contact being vague impeded the gameplay? Like an objective that you didn't understand?

 

Part of the plot is that your contact doesn't seem to be very helpful... that's intentional, but I didn't want it to be actually confusing. Maybe I need to lay it on a little thicker? It's been really difficult, as the writer, to look at my own writing and imagine how someone could be confused because of course I know what I meant. My hope  is the character feels something about being kept in the dark. Either "Ugh... this guy is the worst..." or perhaps they're a reject as well and are like "screw it, let's ride around and blow stuff up" or perhaps they decide to just use Forager until they can figure out what's going on for themselves. The details are meant to be sparse in the story, but not the gameplay. I'll keep polishing that.

 

As for the boss, that seems exactly how a boss fight should be, to me anyway. If you're talking about the scientist, there's no ambushes. That's just what he does. If you're talking about the mu guardian, it's not that many ambushes. If you die a time or two and need inspirations, the boss is definitely working as intended.

 

Thank you so much for the time and detail in your feedback.

[sponazgul]

To the point where Forager's terse-ness is a negative

Spoiler

- in the first mission, I do end up getting a police car but that's more like I'm just trying to complete a mission objective. I'm not getting a sense that I'm stealing the police car to give Forager a ride.

 

Forager doesn't give an explicit reaction to the fact that I have a police car, he says "Ha, more like STEAL Canyon" when I return from mission 1, and at the start of mission 2 "Ha, that's wild. Anyway ..."

 

It is kind of contextless. Was he saying STEAL Canyon because the zone was loaded with thieves stealing things? (No, I realize that it was because I stole a police car - and Forager feels that it was wild, but it still seemed kind of random.) Later on, his comment "Wait, Turn Here" is supposed to communicate that we're currently driving - and that works now that I understand it, but at the time, it took me by surprise.

 

Because the visual is me standing in AE talking to Forager and it's best to help set that stage to counter that. A pop up at the end of the first mission stating "Forager slides into the stolen cop car and buckles up. He directs you to start driving." - it would then really set the stage for the next interaction.

 

It's not an impact as part of a game mechanic, it's just an impact on immersing into what's happening.

[Kyksie]

Yeah pretty much what he said. It's not a matter of 'impeding gameplay', but rather "Uh what am I doing and why am I doing this?"

[Forager]

So, imply... harder.

 

This is all really great feedback. My goal is to make the most detailed story possible with as little reading as possible.

 

I wonder if I'm underestimating the average players stomach for reading... but then again the players doing ae arcs are probably not the average.

[Forager]

11 hours ago, sponazgul said:

To the point where Forager's terse-ness is a negative

  Reveal hidden contents

- in the first mission, I do end up getting a police car but that's more like I'm just trying to complete a mission objective. I'm not getting a sense that I'm stealing the police car to give Forager a ride.

 

Forager doesn't give an explicit reaction to the fact that I have a police car, he says "Ha, more like STEAL Canyon" when I return from mission 1, and at the start of mission 2 "Ha, that's wild. Anyway ..."

 

It is kind of contextless. Was he saying STEAL Canyon because the zone was loaded with thieves stealing things? (No, I realize that it was because I stole a police car - and Forager feels that it was wild, but it still seemed kind of random.) Later on, his comment "Wait, Turn Here" is supposed to communicate that we're currently driving - and that works now that I understand it, but at the time, it took me by surprise.

 

Because the visual is me standing in AE talking to Forager and it's best to help set that stage to counter that. A pop up at the end of the first mission stating "Forager slides into the stolen cop car and buckles up. He directs you to start driving." - it would then really set the stage for the next interaction.

 

It's not an impact as part of a game mechanic, it's just an impact on immersing into what's happening.

 

I reach too far. That's what the box is for and I should use it as such. I'm burdening the player trying to be cute.

[ZamuelNow]

Did you republish?  The arc ID isn't 65481.  You don't need to delete your arc to make edits.  Doing so wipes out prior ratings.  However, I must commend you since--as other's have noticed--you learned you can use the navigation bar to lie to the player about the actual objectives.  You need to be careful with this since it can throw the player off if done wrong.  There's also the issue that though the mission assumes the player is smart, it treats the character as dumb which is a sore point with redside missions.  But as long as the player gets it and acknowledges the meta angle, it's fine.  On a more line by line breakdown:

 

Forager lacks a bio.  While a bio might give him away, not having one at all seems unfinished.  Most won't check, admittedly.

 

Mission 1's Patrol dialogue actually worked?  Don't know if it's just for this map, the devs finally fixed a bug that been here a while, or something else is going on.

 

Nav bar is somewhat confusing, at first.  Considering what's going on, I'd use a clue to imply radio text.  Perhaps duplicating Officer Daniels' radio chatter using the same font size and colors.  It might defuse some of the player frustration with dealing with an outdoor map.

 

Mission 2 contact text
"Park in Back."

'Back' should be lowercase.

 

Mission 2 uses a Mercy Island map, though the visuals are fine in the grand scheme of things.

 

So...Mission 3's ambushes.  While "it makes sense" for the narrative, you should never do ambushes on 75%, 50%, AND 25% health on a level 10 and below mission.  Unless it's in Praetoria and even then that's a situation where you should err on the side of doing better than Paragon Studios.  Most low level characters can't handle that.  I played a Stalker within the level range and was able to partially circumvent this with burst damage.  Still died, though.  If you don't kill the boss group before the ambush arrives, there a real chance that the mission can't be completed.

[Forager]

That is really helpful feedback, @ZamuelNow thank you so much.

 

I definitely need to rework the issue you mentioned with treating a character like they are stupid. I really want the player to understand that Forager is stupid, not them lol. I tried to turn him into the world's worst contact, but I put a lot of that burden on the player rather than the character.

 

I'm pulling back on all the trickery and cutesy stuff with the nav bar. I am definitely trying to subvert too many things at a time for my first arc.

 

I also am going to make it much more obvious and impactful when it's used for radio chatter. It's a trick, so I shouldn't abuse it.

 

I am blown away by how insightful and useful all the feedback has been so far. Am I even on the internet?