Power pool attacks and gauntlet

[SwitchFade]

So this one is straight forward, because I have completely spaced it...

 

Do power pool attacks proc gauntlet?

 

I know attacks from tank secondary proc gauntlet, but I can't recall if attacks like air superiority or cross punch do.

[Heraclea]

My understanding is that all attacks invoke Gauntlet if they are executed by a tanker.  This is one of the reasons why I recommend Salt Crystals to tankers who do not need energy pool for further endurance relief. It is a fairly large PBAoE  that attacks 12 enemies simultaneously IIRC.

[Sarrate]

My understanding is that all attacks invoke Gauntlet if they are executed by a tanker.

 

Gauntlet isn't actually a power or proc. (The icon in your status bar is a dummy that does nothing.) All powers are specifically modified to have a radius, with all single target effects having a setting that forces it only to affect the primary target. For example, look at Knockout Blow. It has a "radius" of 17ft, but everything except the taunt effect is set to be single target.

 

I suspect pool powers don't have Gauntlet, as I'd expect them to be shared powers and not modified to have a taunt & radius. (I could be wrong on this.) I tried to lookup the pool powers in CoD, but I wasn't able to find it. It looks like the Wayback Machine didn't archive it.

[Heraclea]

I am going on memory myself, but my recollection is that Gauntlet was an inherent threat modifier that kicked in if a power was executed by a Tanker.  Brutes get a different and smaller modifier.  If this is how it works there isn't any reason why the modifier would not apply to pool powers, especially since there aren't anymore any attack sets exclusive to Tankers that I know of. 

[Sarrate]

I am going on memory myself, but my recollection is that Gauntlet was an inherent threat modifier that kicked in if a power was executed by a Tanker.  Brutes get a different and smaller modifier.  If this is how it works there isn't any reason why the modifier would not apply to pool powers, especially since there aren't anymore any attack sets exclusive to Tankers that I know of.

 

The "threat modifier" is nothing more than a taunt effect (13.5s), it's not a special debuff / mechanic unique to Tankers. Even attack sets proliferated between ATs are basically a separate copy. For example, compare Energy Transfer for Tankers and Stalkers (Tankers have a radius & taunt effect while Stalkers have a chance not to take the self damage, Assassin's Focus, and a lower stun chance), or Concentrated Strike for Tankers vs Scrappers (Tanker's have a radius, taunt, while Scrappers have a 20% chance to recharge Power Siphon).

 

I did find an example of a pool power in City of Data, though! (I wasn't paying close enough attention and just missed it. /facepalm) You can compare Air Superiority for Tankers and Scrappers. It's the same power, but it has a bunch of conditionals. (Why the damage is in conditionals when that should just be handled by damage scales, I don't know.) There you can see the various effects of all ATs (Scrapper crits, Stalker crits, Containment, Scourge, etc) as well as the taunt effect for Tankers. The caveat being the attack is still single target, so there is no Gauntlet AoE on it, just single target. (Interestingly, Brute do not get any taunt effect on it.)

 

So I was wrong about it taunting at all, but right that it doesn't have an AoE taunt.

[jack_nomind]

What Sarrate said.  Also,

 

(Why the damage is in conditionals when that should just be handled by damage scales, I don't know.)

 

Damage scales don't exist anywhere independently; they're a balancing tool used for power design, not an inheritable template in the game's files. 

[Sarrate]

Damage scales don't exist anywhere independently; they're a balancing tool used for power design, not an inheritable template in the game's files.

 

Oh, but they absolutely do exist. All attacks are defined in terms of "damage scale," and then the AT modifier is what translates that's into final damage. It's what people mean when they Tankers have a damage mod of 0.8 and Scrappers have one of 1.125.

 

Check out City of Data's Tanker Powers. Scroll down and look at the damage column. That's the raw scale damage.

 

There is something similar for most things. Defensive buffs, offensive buffs, hold durations, etc. That's why Tankers get more defense out of the same powers than a Scrapper, why Defender buffs/debuffs are stronger than a Controller, etc.

 

 

Note: Not all abilities need to follow the scales exactly. Look at Tankers' ranged damage mod, it's 0.5 - horrible! So, instead of ranged APP powers using the ranged damage mod, they use the melee one so they're actually usable.

[jack_nomind]

Oh, but they absolutely do exist. All attacks are defined in terms of "damage scale," and then the AT modifier is what translates that's into final damage. It's what people mean when they Tankers have a damage mod of 0.8 and Scrappers have one of 1.125.

 

Check out City of Data's Tanker Powers. Scroll down and look at the damage column. That's the raw scale damage.

 

Hmm.  Okay...

 

Taken from Codewalker's upload of powers.txt,

 

======== Entry 3501 ========
FullName = Brute_Melee.Battle_Axe.Beheader
CRCFullName = 2370787318
SourceFile = DEFS/POWERS/BRUTE_MELEE_BATTLE_AXE.POWERS
Name = Beheader
SourceName = Brute_Melee.Battle_Axe.Beheader
...
DisplayName = Gash (P703192528) 				 [??!]
...
    -------- AttribMod 0 --------
    Name = Damage
...
    Table = Melee_Damage
    Scale = 1.96

 

======== Entry 13657 ========
FullName = Scrapper_Melee.Battle_Axe.Beheader
CRCFullName = 2435312206
SourceFile = DEFS/POWERS/SCRAPPER_MELEE_BATTLE_AXE.POWERS
Name = Beheader
SourceName = Scrapper_Melee.Battle_Axe.Beheader
...
    -------- AttribMod 0 --------
    Name = Damage
    DisplayAttackerHit = You Gash {PlayerDest} with your Battle Axe for {Damage} points of lethal damage! (P783158006) 		 [??!]
    DisplayVictimHit = {PlayerSource} Gashes you with their Battle Axe for {Damage} points of lethal damage! (P3409016606) 		 [??!]
...
    Table = Melee_Damage
    Scale = 1

 

======== Entry 15639 ========
FullName = Tanker_Melee.Battle_Axe.Beheader
CRCFullName = 1863365053
SourceFile = DEFS/POWERS/TANKER_MELEE_BATTLE_AXE.POWERS
Name = Beheader
SourceName = Tanker
...
AttribMod = 
    -------- AttribMod 0 --------
    Name = Damage
...
    Table = Melee_Damage
    Scale = 1.96

 

Which frankly... what?  On several levels; the [??!] comments are mine.  What's worse; there are multiple versions of each of those Beheader powers which all claim to come from the same source directory and all have the same "Entry" number relative to that AT/version, but sometimes have different values in the Scale line.

 

I admit to merely skimming this to base my conclusion on earlier, but... there's something unexpected no matter how you slice it. 

 

in any case... all the power definitions in the file for Air Superiority class it as the same power Entry number, 11979, and none of them derive from any class directory.  Whatever is being inherited (because either you're right and I'm wrong or we're both wrong, but I'm not correct in either of those cases) probably isn't being applied to the power because it only exists in one generic form.

[Sarrate]

Which frankly... what?  On several levels; the [??!] comments are mine.  What's worse; there are multiple versions of each of those Beheader powers which all claim to come from the same source directory and all have the same "Entry" number relative to that AT/version, but sometimes have different values in the Scale line.

 

I admit to merely skimming this to base my conclusion on earlier, but... there's something unexpected no matter how you slice it. 

 

Hahah! You certainly raised my eyebrow! Earlier I looked at the dumped bin file that came with the source, and there was a mismatch there, too. What really stuck out to me, was the fact that the animation time, recharge time, and endurance costs all didn't match. That made no sense to me. So I came back to it later and discovered what I think happened - the internal names (the ones used by the code) don't match the player facing names. Here are the equivalent powers between Brutes, Tankers, and Scrappers:

 

Brute       Tanker      Scrapper
---------------------------------
Gash        Beheader    Gash        <-----
Chop        Chop        Chop
Beheader    Gash        Beheader    <-----
Swoop       Swoop       Swoop
Whrl Axe    Whrl Axe    Whrl Axe
Cleave      Cleave      Cleave
Pendulum    Pendulum    Pendulum

 

That's why the power's text didn't match the power itself in some of your "??!"s. It wouldn't surprise me if this kind of mismatch was present in more a few more of the original sets.

 

in any case... all the power definitions in the file for Air Superiority class it as the same power Entry number, 11979, and none of them derive from any class directory.  Whatever is being inherited (because either you're right and I'm wrong or we're both wrong, but I'm not correct in either of those cases) probably isn't being applied to the power because it only exists in one generic form.

 

Actually, I just realized why the different conditionals are there per AT... those are the PvP damage values. It does look like the PvP damage values do change from AT to AT in PvP, but in PvE, it only uses a single value. I can't recall the rationale on why that was done (I do remember that damage per power was based off activation time in PvP, but that doesn't explain the per-AT differences)... but PvP was always a bit weird.

[Veliko]

Forgive the necro, but.... what's the verdict on epic/ancillary/patron pools and the gauntlet effect? I took the soul tentacles on my invuln/dark tank and want to know if it taunts. I checked, and it doesn't take taunt enhancements like all the secondary powers do. Does that mean it doesn't taunt?