[i been going against my own advice and i been hating the archetype]

Yea, I have looked at it a few times. Mostly when I was toying with a necromancer/sonic Banshee kind of theme. On paper it looked kind of "Meh." Not terrible and had a few tricks but decided wasn't worth the effort. Just wasn't feeling it with that one. 

[When a tank isn't a tank]

Just now, Maelwys said:

 

...That one is a keeper. SNEK TANK!

[When a tank isn't a tank]

1. Tanks can be built many ways. Like everything else. I would argue that's part of what makes CoH special is that you can make an AT any way you like, any team you like, and make it work. Some tanks can be quite aggressive and focus on other things like support or debuffs more than absorb or defensive layers. And not all tanks even defend their team in the same way either. Heck I've seen a Shield Scrapper go toe to toe with Recluse. Are they "Scrapping" wrong? Methinks not.

2. If the zoomer/gotta go fast folks leap in before the tank, consistently, I would argue that its not necessarily the tanks fault they aren't there to take the alpha. Especially if they are already at aggro target cap and there's nothing they can really do about it anyway. Doubly so if the team Scooby-do's and pulls the "lets split up gang!" that is common on pugs/random missions. One part of the team goes one way, the other part goes another, its hardly the tanks fault that you are on the other side of the map poking things with a stick.

3. OPs opinions are just that. Opinions. And any claims of playing since computers had vacuum tubes is irrelevant. "I played since blah blah" has about as much weight to the conversation as me going "I have a pet snake that got out of her tank once." 

4. PS - if you NEED Taunt to hold aggro at levels 1-10 on a Tank... I would argue that you are likely a bad Tank. More of a Jeep. Maybe even a Moped. That or you are just lazy. Or, most likely, have such narrow scope of vision that you don't really know what the heck you are doing. The only thing I can ever recall peeling aggro from any of my tankers in those levels are the space squids with their flying pewpew form at level 6. Other than that, nothing immediately comes to mind. Never really had much an issue holding threat at those levels.

[i been going against my own advice and i been hating the archetype]

Really agree with the points Maelwys made.

 

MMs (and their pets) can be made to be EXTREMELY tanky, but you have to build/plan for them that way. You can't just mix and match any pairing and expect to steamroll. They have the same caps as Tankers - 45% DEF and 90% RES. Now its very difficult to get these values to those levels by yourself with a single character. Some can get close though, if you mix both DEF and RES primary and secondaries. And I have found its easier to boost DEF than RES on pets in most circumstances as well, which is how something like Demons/EA can get fantastically tough, because the T2 pets have resist buffs, that stacks with your Farcage effect, on top of your -dam debuffs to enemies, means that your foes are doing way less damage than they normally do, thats assuming they hit you in the first place.

 

Marine is borderline OP right now, goes with any primary.

Time is also fantastic, especially if you do the trick of taking Power Boost from Mace Mastery. Using Boost and Farsight is a nice chunky 24% DEF before anything else like your Pet uniques and so on.

Electrical is also fantastically durable. Demons/EA is still one of the most durable MMs (or characters) to date.

Cold is solid. FF is as well, but FF is very passive.

 

Traps is good, but takes a bit of recharge to get there, and it does take skill to really play well. Its "plant the flag" kind of play, meaning you make a kill-zone where everything is at a big disadvantage when fighting you. Outside of that area, things are tougher to take out.

 

Poison is pretty much bottom barrel pick, especially for MMs.

 

Never played Sonic, so I have to abstain from that one.

 

Some other tricks are taking things like Group Fly with Robots or Mercs and range things down with an all flying team. But for maps with low ceilings like Cave maps, the many options for immobilize works just as well. You just anchor everything down, and they just simply don't really get to engage.

 

Another thing to consider is that MM pets can "over-aggro." Basically each pet has their own threat table, and can aggro between 8-10 mobs each. With 6 pets, plus the 12 mobs for the MM themselves, you can aggro a LOT of mobs at a time, far more than anyone else. Which is both a good thing, and a bad thing. Its fantastic for MM farming, but for normal play and situations its very easy to "bite off more than you can chew" and get overwhelmed. You can aggro things you don't mean to, even on accident such as runners and patrols. This is why MM control is very important. Very few MMs can be played like a Brute, just going spawn to spawn to spawn without stopping, at least not without a lot of planning and the right setup.

 

But yea, if you are looking for durable/tough pets, you picked some BAD pairings for that. Pretty much the worst ones honestly. 

[Dual-Boxing PVE]

I multibox, but 99% of the time its either farming or doing stuff solo. Sometimes I might go hunt big monsters for funs or things of that nature. If a multiboxer starts a team, I think they should tell other people they are doing that, so people can leave if that isn't their vibe. Also if they join a team, they should say so, so if other people have an issue with it they can say so. And yes, leader has final say on what is or isn't okay for the team. 

 

If you join a team and someone's multi-boxing and you don't like it, you can seek a better team or start your own. But I've found that a moments communication is often better than a lot of grief. In the handful of times I have been in a similar situation, the multiboxer was happy to drop one or both. Not once have I seen a multiboxer go "na I don't wana, you have to kick me" etc. But I have only encountered this (that I am aware of) a handful of times in a few years of play. So there is that. 

[How do you do it? (End management questions)]

There is the obvious Ageless Destiny Incarnate, along with a few Alphas like Cardiac. But I dislike power pairings that are too rough on the END as I view such tools as an unreliable crutch, and they are not always available. Another option is the P2W recovery serum, you can buy 50 charges (i think?) for a bit of moneys and it's like a little mini ageless boost that functions on every AT and is useable at all levels. Other than that - blue inspirations. But I also consider that a band-aid because you can run out.

 

In this case I think "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" comes into play. If you are going to pair something that is very END intensive like a Titan Weapon/Dark Armor, then you have to also plan accordingly. Personally, I can't stand setups that struggle with a blue bar and try to avoid it.

[The AFK Police]

5 hours ago, Bob said:

Odd statement to make in response to a clear joke xD

 

Also, I hate to say it, but part of the reason quite a few other mmorpg's survived (or in few cases, thrived) is because PvP was a decent part of it.  YOU may not like it, but WoW pvp servers being the dominant choices (when it even mattered) means it made the most money to have those things in the game.  That isn't to say every game should have it, but it is what it is.  City of heroes chose a 2 'faction' system, and did little with the PvP... which makes little sense.  They tried to do it, which is why they added villains to begin with.  

 

Worth noting that even in open world PvP (keep in mind most games had SERVER choices for such things), griefers are not the majority, and some even like the threat and thrive on the competition.  IF one joins a pvp server and whines about harassment, then I don't get why they joined to begin with. 

 

No, to me the joke would be them putting a holiday event behind what is clearly an unbalanced and unfair pvp system.

 

I have no problem with PVP as a concept. I don't mind 1 on 1 duel-style pvp. Or even team pvp. What irks me is the gankfest that most pvp has become in games. Its not a test of skill. There is nothing that will convince me that a lvl 50 with full epics stomping a lvl 10 repeatedly is in any way fair. In wow as well as a few other games, it was the people who would "camp" low levels, or people who would repeatedly kill a quest npc that made people leave. In Everquest it got REALLY bad when a guild took over a single NPC for a cleric epic, effectively preventing cleric on the server from getting their raid weapon, unless you paid them real money. That's when the DMs had to step in. Now I do want to say that isn't necessarily pvp behavior in the game sense, but pvp in the one person being a jerk to another sense. And I don't much care for it. 

 

And I kind of disagree with the idea that pvp is the reason why some games survive. I'm sure it helped, but its entirely likely that it harmed as well. (IE - people may have left because of it.) We can't know either one to be sure. But taking ESO as an example, where they have to more or less "bribe" people to pvp via cosmetics or even hide PVE skill trees behind PVP exp, tells me that they have to coherence or push people into it.

 

And I got nothing against pvp. Only the gankers. If people want to gank people, they can go play Call of Duty, Marvels, or whatever pvp game is big right now. If you like pvp, then fine. More power to you, and I hope you enjoy it. 

[Soldier or widow?]

Here is my flying super-tanky crabber. No pets in this build, focus is self-damage and durability. +4/8 with EB soloable, downside is the build is expensive. But its single target is Arcane Bolt + arcane power proc, with Spirit Shark and hunger stacks, Longfang, with Aim. Still has a very strong AoE and standard crabber toggle buffs. And yes, it's quite expensive due to the HAMIs, but hamis were necessary since this build is so proc-heavy in its attacks. But so far this is the best non-pet crabber I have managed to make. 

 

[The AFK Police]

9 hours ago, BigGotter said:

Move the Halloween event to the PvP zones only, lol.

 

I for one, take no small amount of solace and satisfaction in knowing that it is difficult for PVP folks to grief in this game. After all the PVP griefing BS in other games over the years, I find it rather comforting. The only way people will engage in PVP here, is if people opt into it. I do feel a little down for the respectable pvp folks not really getting any content, but for the d2/eso/wow/etc gank-style pvpers? Feel free to presume my laughter. Want to harass people and stomp on their playtime? Have to do it somewhere else. Sorry not sorry. 

[The AFK Police]

First off, personally, I consider afk-ing while teaming to be poor form. Sure, we all have to get phone calls and what-have you, but excessive or constant afk, or afk farming entirely, I consider solo activities.

 

That said however, I also don't like the policing of how others play. I mean if we want to split hairs here, someone could put their jump button on spam and go afk, and "technically" they are not afk. They are moving around, aren't they? There isn't any rules or policy on how to play, or what the correct rotation is, or what button you must press first. 

 

Also speaking for myself, I find people who constantly run ahead, aggro things, the "gotta go fast" randoms that just zoom through without actually killing things or helping to be more annoying than the AFKers. As far as afkers though, as long as things are dying and they at least have a power on auto-cast, I don't particularly care. Killing things faster won't make things spawn any quicker. And some sets like a /FF MM is actually very passive. Aside from knockback or maybe tossing a force bolt there isn't really a whole lot for them to do. I mean I suppose they could turn on their AOE knockback, but I suspect that would have a whole other list of gripes.

 

I suppose the moral of the story is - in "public" places, people are going to play in ways you may not like or agree with. It isn't "your" public place. Its "everyone's" public place.

[Advice for New Players?]

3 hours ago, espectro said:

 

How about people answer the OPs question however the heck they damn well please, and if other people don’t like it, too dang bad? 

Everything I mentioned is related to something I or a friend experienced in game. The point is that this is an MMO and can lead to weird interactions. Actually, the most memorable part is the interactions. The post was not meant to be rage bait.

 

Perhaps I should clarify. When I said "I suspect thy intents might not be entirely genuine" I was not referring to what you are playing in game, but I originally thought your post was tongue in cheek. Personally, I consider it poor form to try to lecture and control what other people play. Especially on things like genders. It's just a game/pixels. And call it a wild hunch that most people are not looking for romantic partners on City of Heroes, and I would even go further and say that such persons really were looking for more, shall we say, adult roleplay, which actually isn't allowed.

[Advice for New Players?]

8 hours ago, espectro said:

If you are a guy playing female characters in the ordinary game (not RP circles), be upfront about your irl gender.

You won’t add disappointed lesbians to your list of regrets. 

Male associate won’t tell you they thought they were playing with a “cool girl.”

You won’t have a conversation that ends with “you can’t blame a guy for trying.”

 

On the other hand, if your hustling for some fast xp max those sliders out and wear as little costume as the game permits.

Find a farmer with the huge body type, spikes, etc. and call them Daddy or something. 

 

What the actual Eff did I just read?

 

How about people play whatever the heck they damn well please, and if other people don't like it, well, too dang bad? Not their business.

 

And personally, I find it pretty telling where you could legitimately play something as ridiculous as you can imagine, someone chooses to zero focus on of all things, gender. Methinks thy intents might not be entirely genuine.

[Lets talk about the game]

Reaction added.

[Kallisti Wharf: Snarky Memorial Park]

41 minutes ago, Snarky said:

I did get the email!  "Screw your memorial" seems a bit harsh!  But the funds are greatly appreciated.  A Very Special Thank You!

 

Guess you didn't read the message hon, it was more of a "screw your memorial, our Nosferatu deserves his own castle"

 

 

It was a compliment/joke. 😆

 

[Kallisti Wharf: Snarky Memorial Park]

*Drops something in @Snarky's donation box*

[Group Fly causes Knockback due to Rage changes after the Regen nerf because Farming]

Nemesis plot. 

["Balancing" the various Archetypes; their Inherents; and their ATOs.]

6 minutes ago, Xalon said:

I always laugh when people say balance like it's ever possible to have all the powersets and combos with different classes, all balanced perfectly. lol. I've seen people do great with all types of sets and usually comes down to the player's skill, experience and timing to play them right. 

 

Don't forget Inf spent/budget. That matters as well. A 20m build is not going to be anywhere close to one that's 600m, no matter how skilled the player might be.

 

[Runners]

["Balancing" the various Archetypes; their Inherents; and their ATOs.]

I do really appreciate all the time thought and effort that you put into this @Maelwys, and I agree with most of your points and overall presentation. But a few things do kind of stick out to my mind that usually remains un-addressed in any balance discussion. (But not for any part of us the posters, but mostly because they are questions that really can only be answered by the Dev's).

 

1. A side-by-side comparison of ATO's and Inherent really isn't complete. Some ATs have perks certainly, but often some ATs with what's considered the worst ATOs are often the best. Lets take Brutes for example - Brutes are still provide one of the best newbie-friendly ATs, and are easily capable of soloing +4/8 and most if not all power pairings, despite having objectively bad ATO's.

 

2. If they went and just changed the ATOs and didn't change anything else, I fear we might encounter another instance of over-correction like they did with tankers, or worse, over-nerfing things. Some things they might break entirely.

 

3. In order to properly "balance" things, then we have to know where the finish line is, or what their metric is for the finish line. A few subpoints here - 

 

3a. I think we all agree that it isn't balancing on +4/8 difficulty. At a guess, I would presume they balance more around 2/8 or 3/8 because pretty much everyone can complete those even on a budget. (And to me any who couldn't, would be the spotlight for who/what needs improvement) But that is just me musing. I believe they put their "bar" below max difficulty, and balance on that. Anything that goes beyond that is ignored... up and until a certain point. Anything that goes too far past that gets, well, let's call it "laterally demoted."

 

3b. Also if they are balancing on solo vs team play. Things that are strong or very desirable for teams, may not be the best solo, and vice versa.

 

The same could be said for killing lots of things quickly, vs killing the big things. Builds that are great at bursting lots of things down, are not the best at soloing AVs, GMs and so on. And the things that are the best at soloing the biggest of things, are not the best at killing quickly or even for team play. And to me, this is honestly a good thing. No one should be the best at everything or multiple things. So a good build is really about picking what you want to be really good at, and doing the best you can at everything else.

 

3c. Also some things that some people say are "strong" are only strong in certain contexts or situations. For me a good example is Crabbermind. They do fantastic, both alone and on teams. ....To a certain point. But if you like to solo hard difficulty alone, you are going to have a bumpy time. Not the worst mind you, others are far worse off, but soloing +4/8 EBs on my crabber was very tedious. After several (20+) different builds and attempts, I did finally make one that is decent at soloing that difficulty. But it really requires outside the box building for a VEAT. And so far she works quite well. 

 

Point is, I hope people take their "strong in what contexts" into account when saying X or Y thing is Good or Bad.

 

4. Honestly, if it was up to me, the first order of business wouldn't be balancing the AT side of things, it would be balancing the enemy side of things. Even on the hardest difficulty, I don't feel like most things hit very hard. The Alpha strikes can bruise sure, but after that, if I can survive the alpha strikes then 9 out of 10 times I know I got the fight in the bag, the only real question after that is how long it takes.

 

But yea, IMO the hardest difficulty doesn't hit hard enough. Not talking Hardmodes or special mechanic fights mind you, I am talking just random +4/8 missions. The raids and such require knowledge and practice. If you know the fight you can pretty much do it with almost any team if everyone is just doing it correctly.

 

5. I hate to bring it up, but it's almost always brought up in some circles about balance - Pylons. Personally, I use pylon times as a ball-park figure or a rough idea, not something to bet the farm on. Some treat it like its unquestionable or selective in its controls/tests though. And while I am no big brain, at a guess I would say that Devs at least take pylon times into some consideration when they change damage stuff. Again, also not something I agree with personally, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did. It is free data after all.

 

6. And as others before have mentioned that I also agree with, I think what they balance things around the MOST is simple popularity. What is played the most? Thats what they change, for good or bad. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, but in this case the squeak is the most popular things being played. Think back to 5 years ago, what did we see quite literally everywhere? Titan Weapons/Bio of various ATs - Tankers, Brutes, Scrappers. Still see some now and then, but not nearly as many as there once were. Lots and lots of Spines/Fire too, but this was mostly due to the farmers. And after the changes, I have pretty much given up any hope of Spines ever being competitive in any manner, no matter how much I like the style and feel of the set. Don't hardly see any Spines or Fire Armor outside of farming while out and about doing random team stuff. Pretty much the only time I see it is in the AE.

 

But yea, if something gets too popular or too overplayed, they are going to change it. Usually make it worse in some manner. As far as what's currently bottom? Well, I am not sure if they honestly care. Or at least, I very much doubt its in their top-10 todo list, much less a priority. Some things that are bottom have been on bottom for a very long time now, or are only bottom in certain circumstances, and that seems to be enough reason to leave it alone. Again, just me musing after seeing how they change things after 5 or so years of playing on HC.

 

Anyway, just my two cents. Comparing ATOs and Inherent is a good start, but not the only things I would want everything to be balanced around. And before any re-balancing would have to be seriously done, we would have to know what the devs point of reference or "finish line" is.

[Knockback, Stil a Dirty Word?]

4 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

 

I did cover the part where if you kick somebody for it. It's a no win situation for the team leader. Keep in mind, this isn't exactly extremely common or anything, but it does happen on occasion. I would simply like to see s synergy happen to KB that not only makes it tolerable for nonKB players, but even welcomed. The real question is, can it be done, and would the KB players enjoy the new KB mechanic if it were implemented.

 

I don't see as forcibly turning off or changing other people's powers to be a "Synergy." A synergy is a compromise. That isn't a compromise. Am open to suggestions, so long as they are entirely optional and at the players discretion. But as spoken by others already, if such an "option" even was suddenly available, it would then go suddenly from option straight to obligatory, such as the KB to KD option has become among some.

[Knockback, Stil a Dirty Word?]

5 hours ago, Solarverse said:

 

Here is the problem with that...

It comes down to this, "You play your way, I'll play mine."

Except that when a KB player plays their way, I can't play my way. One always negates the other. KD players do not affect KB players at all. My targets fall flat on their butt which still leaves them grouped up so that your AoE still hits. Yours on the other hand is not anywhere near as courteous as the KB player's powers unless you play your KB characters tactfully. And let's be honest here, tactful KB players are not even close to being the norm.

 

Except that both parties have options.

 

Here are your options -

1. Don't agree to join a team with people with said powersets.

2. Don't invite people to join your team with said powersets.

3. If you see someone using said powersets, you are free to leave the team.

4. Ask them to stop, and if they do not, then tolerate it.

5. If you are the leader, you are free to eject people from the team.

 

Here are their options -

1. Slot KB->KD enhancement. (I stress this is an option. Not a requirement.)

2. Decide not to use said powers, either by choice or when asked.

3. Ignore the complaints and continue to use said powers.

 

Neither side is holding you at knifepoint forcing either side to play with one another. And instead of using your own options within the situation, you go for the nuclear option of "it needs to be removed entirely" rather than exercise what is within your own control. See, you have it within your own current ability, to remedy the situation. So do other people. And for all these examples of "bad" KB users, no one is stopping to think (or even notice) the polite folks who could but choose not to.

 

So, I agree, let's be honest here. You are in no way forced to endure anything you don't wish to be. You can leave. But, instead of that, you would rather the devs take the heavy handed approach and simply remove that option for everyone entirely, rather than using your own options to remedy the situation yourself.

 

Which to me, speaks that it isn't about knockback at all. I suspect its similar to the AE argument - that some people who choose not to use something (for whatever reason) wish to take the option away from other people who do. Which isn't about community at all, but control. IE - "I don't like or approve of this thing, so nobody should."

 

And I don't mean "you" personally Solarverse. Speaking rhetorically here.

 

And, if I may get philosophical for a moment, no matter what your reasoning or justification, I will never support taking options or choices away from people. To me, it's like Free Speech - I may not agree with what you have to say, but I agree with your right to say it. Even if it's something offensive, wrong, or mean-spirited. You still have the right to say it. (At least in my country, and I am in no way suggesting that KB is a right. Only drawing comparisons here.)

 

People have the right to make their own choices and decisions. Even if you think they are wrong. Even if the world thinks they are wrong. People have a right to be wrong. It's how people learn - from other's wrongs. Take away that opportunity to become better, then we will never improve beyond where we are now.

[Knockback, Stil a Dirty Word?]

Disagree. And no amount of "but my gameplay" or "it makes me so mad" or "team dynamics" is going to be the moral high ground.

 

Still making a mountain out of a molehill here. Lots of things and playstyles "negatively impact" others, but there isn't a crusade to curtail any of them.

 

If I am on a tanker and someone does KB, I shrug and move onto the next.

If I am on my MM and someone does KB, I shrug and move onto the next.

If I am on my Crabber and someone does KB, I shrug and move onto the next.

 

Not once, in nearly 6 years of playing, has a KB been so ill fated, so ill timed, so game altering that it caused a mission to fail. Or a even a team wipe. The only time I remember people making a big fuss out of it, was on a mothership raid because someone had repel on in the bowl. That is literally the only time I have heard a public outcry in game about it. It is not nearly as life altering as people are making it out to be.

 

Oh no, someone died? That happens. A lot. And rarely is it KB's problem.

Oh no, a mission took a bit longer to complete? ...So what? Big deal. I would bet that more time was taken writing some of these responses here.

Oh no, someone is playing outside the team dynamic? ...again, happens all the time. A lot. And often.

 

Now, "should" people play together? Sure. And most of the time, they do. But you might think from how some people present it, this is reaching to present something people have a personal problem with as this supposedly critically important change that needs to be implemented immediately. "They need to do something!" - they already have. They offered a knockback to knockdown option. But that's what it is, an "option." If people are still using knockback, well, spoiler alert - they are within their right to do so. Just as you are within your right to play whatever you like as well. "But people can troll with it!" - again, many tools can be misused. Phasing/intangible, fold space, PFF to name a few.

 

The power itself isn't the problem. People are just using it in ways that annoy others to the extent that they want the fun police to swoop in and force change. People already have options. The fact that not everyone is taking them, should be a clear indicator of something. That not everyone agrees with the idea "KB is bad."

 

Now, you have options too. You can kick someone (if you are the leader), you can stamp your foot and refuse to heal or buff or hold aggro or whatever. But they have those same options too. And both have you have the option to... wait for it... ...simply not play together. And here is the real solution to my mind. Because not everyone is going to want to play in the same way, have the same goals, go the same speed, play at the same difficulty, etc etc etc. This whole KB is but one small part of a multi-sided puzzle. And people are making way too much of a fuss about it, when the solution is already within their own means - simply not team with powersets like Energy Blast. And if this is supposedly the massive widespread plague some are making it out to be, then I question if said persons are lazy when making their teams.

 

You don't want to see knockback powers? Don't team with the powersets that have them. Take the 3 minutes to put some thought into your LFG message, and to check peoples powersets, and poof - you will never ever have to see them again. Like magic. But instead of taking the time to do that, people would rather have the devs wave their magic wand and remove or change all KB. The problem with that is that this "fix" for your personal experience, is now taking away from others. When its within your own ability to remedy the situation, without negatively impacting others. And you can apply this to most parts of the game. "Don't like something? Don't do it/use it/take part in it."

[Knockback, Stil a Dirty Word?]

58 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

To flip it around: I don't think it's reasonable to expect multiple teammates to adjust their playstyle to suit a "bad" knockbacker. Single Target Ranged damage dealers might not overly care... but anyone with melee attacks, AoEs and "patch" effects can be negatively impacted by mob scatter. On many toons it can feel eerily similar to having to tolerate a disruptive co-worker who keeps sabotaging the group project.

 

Speaking only for myself, honestly? It depends on how they ask. Not just about KB, but about anything. If they politely "ask" (not demand, but ask) I am inclined to co-operate as long as they aren't causing problems on for me on my side. But if they are being just as annoying, like spamming chat, taking forever to talk to the contact for next mission, constantly running ahead and then griping when they splat and so on, I am far more likely to tell them to kiss me where the lord split me. To me thats just being polite.

 

But, as seen as examples in this very thread, there is very much an attitude of "PLAY MY WAY OR GTFO" mentality, which I would argue is a far larger pressing matter than knockback. I go by "know the pool you choose to swim in." If you choose to put together a team of random people, that's what you get. Key word "random." Some are good. Some are bad. Some are experienced. Some are just learning. Some just plain don't care and want to flex their pixels or speed to the end as fast as possible. If you want a team or TF to go exactly how you want it, to specifications, as fast as possible, mastery badge runs, yadda yadda yadda, then maybe you need to build a team of friends for it. You are rolling the dice when you want to play at that level with random people. "Most" know what they are doing, some will not. And I would call that the normal state of things.

 

And when I say "you" I don't mean you personally, I am speaking rhetorically here. But if someone is a controlling fun police jerk who is in a rush, well, that sounds very suspiciously like not my problem, and depending on their manners, I might be inclined to use the situation in a creative manner.

[Knockback, Stil a Dirty Word?]

10 minutes ago, ivanhedgehog said:

The healer/buffer has the right to use their powers as they choose.  its a 2 way street. when we accept the team invite, there is a certain agreement as to cooperation.

 

I don't disagree. Both are free to play as they like. Neither one gets to control the other, which is my entire point.

 

Want to heal or not heal? Go right ahead.

Want to KB everything into the sun? Go ahead.

 

Neither is incorrect, wrong, or disallowed. Nobody is forcing anyone to play with anyone either. Don't like who you are teamed with? Make your own team, with your own goals and rules. Thats how we get some pretty awesome things like all tanker or all MM TFs and so on. 

 

But as far as "cooperation" goes, that is a two-way street as well. Demanding/expecting someone with KB to not use KB when it wasn't advertised they wouldn't be welcome when joining the team isn't "cooperation." If someone is so passionate about KB, then they should make it known when forming the team. And if someone (either one, the KB or the one complaining about that) leaves mid-mission because of that, I couldn't blame them either. 

 

Now, if the team was put together knowing beforehand KB was frowned upon, and then someone was doing it anyway, then ya they are a jerk. But call it a suspicion that isn't the case here.

[Knockback, Stil a Dirty Word?]

19 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

 

If/when I'm on a melee toon and someone repeatedly punts half a dozen mobs out of my PBAoEs, you better believe that someone has just claimed ownership of those mobs. So I'll happily just leave them to it and go tackle the next pack... 🙂

 

Sure, and its your right to do so. Just as its their right to blow the next one away as well. A mature group would communicate, you know, just say "hey can you please stop KB so much?" like most adults. Not just presume they are being malicious about it. (I do want to add, i am pretty sure you fall into the normal adult category.) 

 

But so many here want to light their torches and grab their pitchforks for people just using powers as they are meant to. "You play MY way. Or ELSE" energy.