Ultimo

And this stuff right here is why I can't be bothered to carry on talking about this. EVERY SINGLE DAMN POST I make I have to spend an incredible amount of energy arguing over NOTHING. Semantics. Just nonsense, and I'm frankly sick and tired of it. I came to make a suggestion. You don't like it. Fine. I'm done arguing about it. You don't like ME, I don't give a crap. I've made my suggestion, and I'm not going to waste my time and energy fighting over it. Call me a troll. Spit on me with your mockery. I don't care anymore. I'm done with arguing over nothing.

Well, I see what you're all saying, but I wasn't really looking for an argument, I just wanted to make the suggestion. They can do what they will with it.

Unless it works differently than I understand, slotting wouldn't affect the damage of the knockback. For instance, Hand Clap doesn't DO damage, so you couldn't slot damage enhancements in the power. The knockback would do a little damage, but you can't slot damage enhancements into that either. You COULD slot to increase knockback, which would do more damage, but you can slot those enhancements now.

There is some truth to this. A lot of what I'm aiming at is conceptual. Strength is used to MOVE things. SUPER strength would be used to move things normal strength cannot. This is why I suggested Rage increasing the magnitude of the knock effect, so enemies that cannot be moved by normal strength COULD be moved by Super Strength. The reordering of the set so Hurl comes earlier is also to provide the most conceptually grounded power at an earlier point, so the set feels stronger, longer. Adding damage to knockback just seems logical to me, as being sent flying through the air to slam into a wall, or the ground, should hurt. It would also make knockback a bit more desirable, as it's kind of a maligned effect at present.

I don't agree that it would be more viable. Control sets are reliable. Knock effects in Super Strength are not (mostly). Only Hand Clap is a sure knock, and I'm FINE having it knock even AVs, since the point is to make the effect have STRENGTH. The other knocks are not certain, and the effect would only last as long as Rage does.

It depends on how they go about it. I don't know how it's programmed, so I'm speculating here, but it's a matter of increasing the magnitude of the knock effect, such that even AVs will be (or rather, can be, since no attack is 100% going to knock them) knocked, but not so much that GMs, Hamidon and other immovable objects would not. I feel like we're arguing semantics. Perhaps using the word "unresistable" is inaccurate, if so that's on me.

I already addressed that. Things that CAN be moved should be moveable. Some things simply cannot be moved, and they would remain immovable.

Can I assume they're removing the consistent knock on Air Superiority then? It's entirely possible NOW to permanently juggle an enemy. Now, Rage would temporarily allow you to do that to an AV or EB or Boss, but it's SUPPOSED to, since a super strong character is supposed to be able to move things that otherwise can't be moved.

Well... I can't imagine applying knockdown to things like pylons or other objects that don't move. It would also be possible to counter unresistable knocks by using something like Unstoppable, which increases knock resistance even further. I also don't see it being a problem because it would work both ways, as enemies would knock the PLAYERS while Rage is running as well. Finally, it would only be unresistable while Rage is running, which isn't all the time. Moreover, you don't knock enemies with every punch. I'd say maybe 20% of my Super Strength attacks knock enemies around (just a guess, really). I'm only suggesting that characters would not be able to resist those knocks, meaning they would be knocked around 20% of the time instead of 0%. In short, there WOULD be some exceptions (eg. Giant Monsters, static objects, etc.) to unresistable knocks, and there would be counters to it as well, in addition to it not being available or happening all the time.

I was only using Street Justice as an example. I find that it is more effective overall, largely because of the availability of AOE earlier in the set. It has TWO area effects before L20 (or just after, for tankers), while Super Strength has none until L30. It isn't going to drastically change anything to swap Hand Clap and Hurl, and is better thematically. As I mentioned, Hurl is the only power in the set where the character lifts something ostensibly heavy, and Hand Clap is better used as a higher tier power, as it's generally depicted in the comics as a higher tier ability (eg. it's kind of the Hulk's signature power... even for Statesman, it's a higher tier ability). In the end, the goal is to add a bit of function and flavour. Hitting multiple foes at once "feels" stronger than one at a time. The addition of a little damage to knockback wouldn't be a drastic change to the performance of the set, and would affect OTHER sets as well. I'm not suggesting a huge amount of damage here, just a bit of extra damage, relative to the amount of knockback done. For example, suppose the power did 100 damage and knocked the enemy 10 feet. Perhaps he'd take an additional 10 damage. If he was knocked 5 feet, only 5 damage. You get the idea. Nothing game-breaking. My suggested change to Rage is more for theme than anything. In the comics, we see characters with super strength knocking enemies around, no matter how massive or resistant. For example, I think we would agree that Darkseid is a character most heroes wouldn't budge with a punch, but Superman knocks him around often. Likewise, if Superman was in this game, he'd have Invincibility, with it's knock protection... but he is also knocked around by Darkseid (or Captain Marvel, or a host of other super strong characters). It would mean a tiny bit of extra damage from the knockback, but again I expect it would be trivial. My goal here, as is always the case, is to better represent what we see in the source material, while also making Super Strength a little more effective in ways that aren't based on damage output (ie. area effects). Again, I'm not seeing how it would cause any harm to anything, and the benefit would be conceptually substantial, while adding only the slight performance tweak I think the set could use. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just think it's something that would be beneficial. You're welcome to disagree, but I hope you see my point.

Indeed. The thing is, the changes I suggested wouldn't change the performance of the set all that much. It would add a little damage due to the knockback, but beyond that, the only real changes are to swap the order of a couple of the powers (Hurl would come earlier, since it's the only power in the set where you lift something heavy), and to add a little more AOE earlier in the set, which the set could definitely use (as mentioned, the only AOE damage in the set is the LAST power in the set). So, I stand by my suggestion. Can you say why NOT tweak the set? That is, how would my suggested changes harm anything?

That's fair. I mean, it's not BAD, I just think it's not as good as other sets.

So... I've commented before that I feel Super Strength kind of underperforms, and after playing some characters with Street Justice lately, I'm more convinced of it than ever. The main thing is the AOE. Street Justice has several AOE powers, Sweeping Cross, which characters get EARLY, and Spinning Strike, which characters get around L20 (depending on AT). Super Strength gets ONE AOE power, Foot Stomp, which is the LAST power in the set. There is Hand Clap, but it doesn't really do anything productive (knocking foes away is counterproductive to most characters who have Super Strength, as their armours rely on things like Invincibility or Rise to the Challenge). There's also very little "flavour" of being STRONG in Super Strength. I have three suggestions to improve Super Strength. First, swap Hand Clap and Hurl. Make Hurl an aoe at point of impact. Second, make Knockback inflict damage, relative to the amount of knockback done. This does mean Hand Clap would do a little damage, not from the clap itself, but from the knockback... which would maek it a bit useful, even if it does knock foes away. Third, alter Rage so it makes all knockback UNRESISTABLE. We see characters like Superman or Hulk, who would certainly have powers like Unyielding if present in this game, getting knocked back all the time, but usually just by characters who are ALSO super strong. Super strength is used to move things that people without superhuman strength cannot move. It's entirely appropriate to see super strong characters knocking Lord Recluse, or Hopkins, or any other AV back, because they're STRONG. TLDR: Swap Hand Clap and Hurl. Make Hurl an AOE at point of impact. Make Knockback inflict damage, relative to the amount of Knockback done. Make Rage make Knockback UNRESISTABLE.

Well... just that they're not very sneaky. Ninjas are known for their stealth, more than anything, then the devastating strike from the shadows. The whole Stalker class is based around them. The Genin don't have any stealth at all, and Smoke Flash only gives it to them for a moment. Agreed, there is Grant Invisibility from the Concealment pool (and I did try using that), but it only affects them one at a time, and they STAY invisible even in combat, which isn't quite in character either. They should be invisible until they strike, then become visible.

I have expanded this mission into a full 5 mission arc! Now more challenging and interesting! Give it a try and offer some feedback, I'm always interested in improving my work.