Ultimo

So, I'll give the example to explain what I'm suggesting. I made a mission which is set in Mercy Island. I created a group of custom enemies I called "The Noobs." They are meant to represent the various player characters that are running around in Mercy. I usually create them as patrols set to Rogue, so they attack everyone. They're pretty well all Lieutenant level characters. The problem I have is that it will often spawn multiples of the same characters. For example, if I've got one guy in the group called Red Mist, there might be more than one of him on the map. What I'm suggesting is making a setting for custom characters to make them UNIQUE, so that there can be only ONE of that character on the map at any time.

EVERY fight should be a fun fight. It's baffling to me that you would suggest otherwise. Scaling the intermediate Boss rank down is something that would need to be figured out. He'd have to go down to either Boss or Lieutenant level, and I think Lieutenant would be TOO weak, so I suggested Boss. The alternative would be ANOTHER intermediate step between Lieutenant and Boss, and I don't think that's needed. Boss level is reasonable. You're free to disagree. Having a step between Boss and Elite Boss would absolutely allow for more sensitivity when creating characters, because there would be an intermediate step between the extremes. Like the Three Bears, one is too weak, one is too strong... we only need the one that's Juuuust Right. There are times when I'd make a character a Boss. There are times when I'd make an Elite Boss, or even an Arch-Villain. I'd continue to do so when I felt it appropriate, and so would others. There are MANY times when I wish I could make a character that is in between the Boss and Elite Boss. I believe you understand the suggestion and the reasons for it. You don't agree that it's useful or needed, and that's fine. I'm not going to keep arguing for no reason.

You asked, "Why does the ally boss/EB need to be a 'fun fight'?" so I explained that you might end up fighting an ally. Your objection seems to be predicated on your assertion that Boss level enemies are equal to player characters. I don't agree, and I think you'd find many don't. There are doubtless many who would suggest Elite Bosses are equivalent to player characters. I don't agree with that, either. In any case, having a step between the two allows for more sensitivity when creating enemies (or allies) for AE arcs. You're right, I haven't said what this middle tier would scale down to. As it is, if Bosses are turned off, a Boss would appear as a Lieutenant. Since this new rank would be more powerful than a Boss, it probably should be more powerful than a Lieutenant, so I guess it should scale down to the Boss rank... same as an Elite Boss.

An Ally CAN be set to turn on the player. Either way, the point is to create a step between Bosses and Elite Bosses. Refer back to me example of Spider-Man vs Scorpion or Electro. They're clearly more of a challenge than a Boss would be, but not as overwhelming as an Elite Boss would be. Again I say, what's the reason for the resistance? If you prefer to use EBs in your missions, adding a level of enemy between Boss and EB isn't going to stop you. You're objecting to increased flexibility for reasons I cannot understand.

I already pointed out that making the character a Boss makes them too squishy. Allies appear in the missions at the rank they're created at. Only enemy Elite Bosses scale down. That means an Ally created as an Elite Boss will appear as an Elite Boss, and not scale down. Again, MAKING him as a Boss means he's too squishy to be comparable to the player. That's for CUSTOM characters. Characters already part of the game (like the Archon/War Wolves) scale properly, as far as I know. Either way, having the character appear as a Boss means he's too squishy to be a fun fight. Player characters are all substantially more powerful than Lieutenants or Bosses. Bosses can often be more damaging, but they're not sturdy enough to compare to the player characters. One on one, a fight between a player character and a Boss NPC will go to the player the great majority of the time. This is reversed for Elite Bosses. The damage they can take makes them more fun to fight, because you aren't going to beat them in a couple of seconds, but the damage they do is so high that they can easily beat the player, even in one attack. Elite Bosses are clearly more powerful than player characters. This is why I'm suggesting a step between them, with the damage of the Boss and the durability of the Elite Boss. It offers people making AE missions (and potentially the devs making regular content) a bit more flexibility. Nor mine. In the past, I suggested lowering EB (and AV) damage somewhat, and was flamed half to death for even suggesting it. That's why I'm suggesting a separate rank. It doesn't take away or change anything that's already there, it just adds something to provide another option. As mentioned, I see no harm in it, and the benefit of greater flexibility in storytelling.

There are a few situations that arise that make this suggestion useful. Suppose I'm making a mission with an allied superhero. We'll use Iron Man as our example. He's supposedly on the level of the player character, an ally to help you out. If he's an Elite Boss, he completely trivializes everything in the mission (except the final boss, if there is one). He'll blithely go around oneshotting all the minions and Lieutenants, and Bosses won't last much longer. His damage output will be somewhere around 5-8 times what your player character can do. Moreover, he's going to squish the ENEMY Boss with ease, because an enemy created as an Elite Boss will appear as a BOSS if the player's settings restrict EBs and AVs. So, you need to make that character a lower rank. So, you make him a Boss. Now, his damage is still higher than yours, but not nearly so much, perhaps 2-3 times what you can do. However, now he's incredibly squishy, even with armours in place. This may not be an issue against lesser enemies, but when you come up on that Elite Boss or AV at the mission's end, he's going to be instantly squished. Of course, many players will be instantly squished too... so maybe that's appropriate. Now suppose, in the same situation, Iron Man is set to betray the character. If your settings are set to make enemy Elite Bosses appear as Bosses, your ALLY will still appear as an Elite Boss. When he betrays you, he will STILL be an Elite Boss, and thereby circumvent the restriction on EBs. In essence, I'm trying to establish a rank of NPC that is the equivalent of the player characters. Player characters are more powerful than Bosses (Bosses often do more damage, but aren't durable enough to match the players), but less powerful than Elite Bosses (who are more durable, but do even MORE damage). So, to get an NPC that is equivalent to the player, we would need a rank in between. Let me put it another way... If Spider-Man is the player character, what rank would the Scorpion be? Or Electro? He doesn't beat them easily, so they're not Bosses, and he isn't defeated immediately, so they're not Elite Bosses. It's just that there's nothing else in between those ranks. It would be nice if there WAS.

Well, the point here isn't that the damage is excessive (that's a whole other thread), I'm just suggesting a step between the Boss and Elite Boss, so let's stick to that idea. Also, remember this is not JUST for enemies, but also allies.

I do give them armour sets (depending on the character, of course). When making NPCs I try to make them follow the same rules as the players, so set choices are based on AT. Usually. It doesn't really help much with the Bosses survivability, and does nothing to reduce Elite Boss damage. Yes, I can leave out most of the powers in the set, but that makes enemies that are boring to fight, and means they might be missing powers they really should have. For example, suppose I'm making a character like the Hulk, who is known for smashing things. Haymaker (Super Strength) is the power that looks best for that, but on an Elite Boss, it does so much damage it's nearly impossible for a Controller, Defender or other squishy to withstand it. I could leave it out, but it's so characterful, it's a shame to do so. Adding a rank between Boss and Elite Boss would allow greater flexibility.

I don't want to tread too heavily on this one, because similar discussions seem to turn into flame wars... but I think I need to offer a suggestion. I've commented before about how difficult it is to make enemies that are balanced well for the AE. Minions and Lieutenants are fine, the issues arise from Bosses and EBs (and AVs, but that's a different problem). In essence, it seems like there's a GAP between Bosses and Elite Bosses that should be filled. In essence, the problem is this: Suppose you're making an arc with a boss character in it. EBs are sturdy, but they do WAY too much damage for most people to handle. But, if you make the character a Boss, their damage is more manageable, but they're not way too squishy. Perhaps what's needed is a rank for NPCs that falls between the two, having Boss level damage output, but Elite Boss level durability? Not sure what I'd call it. Even if it was just for the AE, it would make it a lot easier to make missions with enemies and allies that aren't so overpowered. Create a new NPC rank with Boss damage and Elite Boss durability. (As an aside, it might allow the Trick or Treat event to be more accessible, as most of the Elite Bosses that spawn today are so overpowered, most people have no choice but to run away, if they're even able to.)

Well, my idea was to revamp the Speed power pool, not to create a whole new set. However, perhaps that might be another option? Perhaps a Super Speed set for offense and defense?

I actually have a character like that already, based on a Time Lord character I created for the old Doctor Who pen & paper RPG (was it by FASA?).

I'm not sure it's a function of teleportation, so much as distance. That is, beyond a certain distance, they'll go back to following you. If you teleport within that distance, they shouldn't move from where you put them. Though, I'll have to check and see if this is so.

Willpower is a bit of everything. A little Defense, a little Resistance, and a bit of Regeneration. Also has good endurance recovery. I've found it's pretty strong, but nothing I've played before seems as generally durable as Regeneration. I thought perhaps as a Tanker you would heal faster, but lower damage means you're taking more damage overall... which might be a deathknell for Regeneration, which depends on surviving long enough to heal. But, I'm not sure, and my Regen character is only L25? I think? I'll have to look. It's not all that high yet.

So, back in the day, I made a character I was basing on the Hulk. Big, strong monstrosity kind of guy. I called him the Mega-Troll, a victim of a new strain of Superadine. I made him a Brute, Super Strength and Regeneration... but I found that he died if someone used harsh language near him. Just SO squishy. I rebuilt him using Willpower instead. The other day, I was playing another of my characters, who has Regeneration, but I hadn't played for some time. I gather they reworked Regeneration, and I wanted to try it out again... and HOLY MOLY. The guy is a nearly unstoppable juggernaut now. He can leap into a group of 20 enemies and be the last man standing. My TANKER would have difficulty with that at the same level. So, my question is... What's the downside? Am I missing something, or is Regeneration just ridiculously powerful now?

More than one second is by definition several seconds... but I'm not arguing semantics with you. The fact remains that it roots the character for longer than most other attacks, which slows the character down... which is the opposite of what SPEED is supposedly about. Also, I understand that this would change powers people are still using, but it's not like they haven't done that before when it's for a general benefit. For example, they recently changed Regeneration. I'm sure there were those who liked it as it was, but they did it anyway because it was for the general good. I'm not suggesting replacing it with a tier 9 power. I'm suggesting replacing it with an appropriately balanced power that is LIKE the tier 9 power. I didn't think I needed to explain this.

Well, I replaced it in the sequence of powers, making it require prerequisite powers. Not just a semantic difference. It's also why I mentioned leaving it where it was and putting Combat Speed at the higher tier. Neither Combat Jumping nor Hover affect run speed. Someone else suggested just using Sprint, but that's not customizable and costs a ton of endurance, and doesn't affect Defense. It just seemed like a logical addition. There's a combat flight power, a combat teleport power, a combat jumping power... why not a combat running power? Yes, attacks root the character. Not all attacks root the character for SEVERAL SECONDS. Shield Charge maintains mobility, while being thematic. I'd like to retain Flurry, but it's effectiveness is very limited, and it's thematically troubled. I just thought the Dash power would be more useful and thematically appropriate. Again, based on some of the discussion in the thread. I'm not drawing this from nowhere, it's the result of some of the discussion here.

What would you say to this setup: Dash (replaces Flurry) - same effect as Shield Charge. Combat Speed (replaces Hasten) - increases run speed the same as Sprint, and adds Defense equal to Combat Jumping. Super Speed - Travel power, unchanged. Hasten - Unchanged, but now requires 2 prior Speed powers. Whirlwind - Unchanged. My thinking is this... Flurry is SLOW, and immobilizes the character, which is not very thematic. It's also redundant, given the availability of Sands of Mu. Combat Speed would help to counter movement suppression, and would give the character a slight boost to Defense. It would also be customizable, and enhancable, which Sprint is not. Super Speed is unchanged. Hasten... I moved it up to where it would be necessary to have 2 prior Speed powers, but this could be switched around with Combat Speed. Whirlwind is a nifty power, and is in keeping with the theme, so I'm leaving it there. It does have uses.

I've found Sorcery especially useful on Controllers, as Mystic Blast gets the benefit of Containment (doing double damage!). I'm not sure about Enflame, but the fire does get foes running around, which means they're not attacking me. Shadow Ward is also a decent shield for an ally, and the personal ward is useful if it's all you have access to... I usually think of pool powers as ways of filling in gaps in the main power sets. For example, Cross Punch is pretty well necessary on any Super Strength character, because there's NO area effect power before L30... and Cross Punch does have a disorient effect, which is helpful. Most of my Sentinels get good benefit from that. I suppose I'm saying it does depend on the character.

Actually, there ARE a few that are decent, and at least one that's rather good (maybe TOO good). Boxing and Cross Punch are both pretty decent, and have places in many of my character builds (especially my Sentinels), and Air Superiority is AMAZING. Just spamming that thing will do as much damage as Super Strength's Punch, AND will consistently knock the enemy down, over and over, while also preventing them flying away. None of the ranged attacks are worth ANYTHING though. I've tried... HOW I've tried, to make Toxic Dart or Corrosive Vial workable... Actually, I have to amend that thought, because SORCERY is pretty awesome as a set. Some good support powers, some personal defense powers a travel power AND a couple of decent offensive powers. I wish ALL the pools were like this one.

I see where the confusion is coming from, I think. I posted this thread (and the Super Speed thread) in GENERAL DISCUSSION, but it's been moved to Suggestions, even though I hadn't intended it to represent a suggestion yet. I wanted to discuss the idea FIRST. I'll apologize for the confusion, though it's not really my doing. The idea is to come up with a power pool representing Super Senses. What I posted in the OP was just a first run at it, it's not what I'd necessarily suggest (which is why I didn't put this in the suggestions forum). I included it as a starting point, with the intention that we might modify what I had put there... perhaps because there's overlap with other powers, perhaps because there would be balance concerns, or what have you. We've already HAD some of that (eg. making one or more of them put markers on the map representing enemies or objectives, or what have you). If you think the powers I put in the OP are too similar to something else, like Leadership... suggest something ELSE. Don't just shoot down the whole idea of a power pool representing senses, come up with some kind of suggestion of your own, and let's see if we can incorporate that into the idea until we CAN make the suggestion. It's 2am and I'm on my way to bed, I hope that's clearer. Apologies if it's a bit stream of consciousness.

Yeah you're right. We don't need another power set, we can just take something else and pretend it's what we want. So, why bother with any other power sets. I can take ANY power set and pretend it's what I want it to be. We could save a bunch on code by getting rid of EVERYTHING except one melee set, one ranged set, one armour set... and then pretend they're what we want. Heck, why do we even need the game? We can just use our imagination and pretend we're playing a game. I'm being facetious, of course. I weary of this argument I keep seeing, "just take something else and pretend it's what you want," because it's a dismissive, unproductive argument. I'm NOT here to argue whether I should make a suggestion. I'm here to suggest a new power set idea, and see if the community can come up with what might be put into it. If you don't want to, that's fine, but stop raining on the thread by suggesting there's no point in even talking about it.

Ok, so suggest an alternative. That IS why I started the thread.

The main difficulty with Sands of Mu is that it can't be enhanced (which makes its accuracy dreadful).

What about Infiltration, in the Concealment pool? It's quick, but not as fast as Super Speed, and has substantial stealth...

It would depend on how much Defense each provides. The idea would be to find a balance point where each is useful, but together they're not overpowering. But then, that's just the first run at it. Perhaps we could find alternatives to the +Def.