Ultimo

Actually, I once suggested reworking Rage into a toggle with an effect similar to that.

Perhaps, but there's nothing that represents SUPER perception skills or abilities. Something above the cut, as it were.

This is an ability that many characters in comics have... whether it be something like Superman's various vision and hearing powers, Wolverine's tracking scent or Iron Man's sensor suite... and there's nothing in the game to represent it. So, I thought maybe we could come up with some ideas for a power pool based on Enhanced Senses. Here's my first thoughts... it gives us somewhere to start, I know these ideas will need some work. 1. Enhanced Vision (Toggle) - This covers all the various sight powers, telescopic, microscopic, infrared, etc. It would give the character a bonus to hit, and resistance to blinding powers. 2. Enhanced Hearing (Toggle) - This covers all hearing powers, such as high or low frequency, radio signals, etc. It would give the character a bonus to Defense (as he can hear attacks coming) and resistance to defense debuffs. However, he would take additional damage from Sonic attacks or effects. 3. Radar/Danger Sense (Toggle) - Based on Spider-Man or Daredevil's extra sense, this power would give the character a substantial Defense buff, and also a bonus to Perception. 4. Targeting/Tracking Sense (Click) - This covers things like Wolverine tracking by scent, or Iron Man's targeting computer. This power would give the character a bonus to hit and resistance to perception and accuracy debuffs. 5. Cosmic Sense (Click) - Like Captain Marvel or Silver Surfer, this power gives the character a holistic awareness of the world around him. It would grant a substantial boost to Defense and Accuracy.

One of my speedsters is a Defender with Kinetics. When using Drain Speed, his speed is substantially increased. Even with Super Speed turned off, his movement rate is quite adequate. The issue is that only THAT set has access to that power... and any character with Super Speed really ought to be able to move around like that. Perhaps the set needs some kind of power to use as "combat running"? Teleport has combat teleporting, Leaping has combat jumping... why not make something similar for Super Speed? As for the idea of running past an enemy to do damage... what if Super Speed had a dash attack, like Shield Charge?

I'm posting this thread to start some discussion, so I can put together an actual suggestion for the suggestion forum. I find myself somewhat dissatisfied with Super Speed, and I was thinking about ways to improve it, mainly for presentation, but also for performance. I thought I'd see what others think about it. So... super speed is one of the most iconic powers in the comics. There are a host of characters that have some variation of it. I've tried making characters in the game that are essentially speedsters, but they just lack something fundamental, and I've been trying to figure out how the Super Speed power set might be changed to better represent how super speed is used in the comics, and how it might be better represented for game effect. First, the main thing about super speed is that characters are FAST. Not just that they act quickly, which we do get from Hasten, but that they MOVE quickly. We have the travel power component of Super Speed, but once you attack, movement power suppression takes hold, and we move like anyone else. I see this as an issue. Second, the extra effect from Super Speed, Speed Phase, is of very limited value to say the least. Perhaps we can come up with something to replace that with something more useful? Flurry is fine, but it roots the character, which is a problem because you're not very fast when standing still. I originally thought Whirlwind was kind of useless, but I've kind of changed my tune on that, as I find it quite useful at keeping enemies from attacking me while I can still attack them. My only complaint on this power is that attacking makes you stop spinning... perhaps we can do something with the animation so we attack while still spinning? My final thought is that one of the most obvious uses of Super Speed would be to hit enemies as we go by them, a running clothesline at super speed. Now, we can queue up an attack and have it go off after we've moved past, but there's no effect from the SPEED. Perhaps we can add some effect that increases damage, or knockback, or something like that, as a factor of the movement of the character? Anyway, these are just some initial thoughts. What do you guys think? Are you happy with Super Speed as it is? If you could change something, what would you change?

I suggested the same thing once, but was shouted down as usual. My thinking was that the game should function kind of like Champions pen and paper, where each power set was the same at base, but the specifics of the effects would be different. Apart from secondary effects (eg. burning, slowing, knocking, etc.), the powers would only LOOK different. I thought it would be easier to keep everything balanced. It would also allow characters to have a variety of effects within a single power set. For example, a blast set might choose fire for the first power, then ice for another, then dark for another... The actual damage output would be the same whatever effect was chosen, so the only difference would be that secondary effect. I thought it wasn't a bad idea, and I still think it's not a bad idea... but as you said, it's probably a non-starter.

Again, you're fixating on the semantics. I don't care what the mechanics are, the objective is to knock enemies that you otherwise couldn't. As I said in my explanation, the idea is not to make any MORE knockback, either in frequency or distance or anything like that, it's just to make it possible to knock enemies you otherwise couldnt'. I'm not a programmer, I'm not going to tell them HOW to do it, I'm just explaining what I think would be good.

Very well. I'll make my suggestion and leave it at that. Make knockback do a bit of damage, relative to the distance knocked. =This is to make the effect more desirable than it is now, and to make it make some sense. Being knocked flying into something should hurt. Let Rage increase the magnitude of knocks, so even enemies that would normally be immune are affected. =This seems to have created the most confusion. This would not increase the amount of knockback done, or the frequency of the effect taking place. If the only thing you're fighting is minions, it's not going to change anything. The only difference is that enemies like EBs and AVs would also be affected by the knock in the same way as the minions. Objects and enemies that are specifically immovable (eg. Pylons, Giant Monsters, etc.) would continue to be immune. Rearrange the powers so Hurl comes earlier (I would swap with Hand Clap). =Hurl is the only power in the set that has the character lifting a heavy object. Since this is the definitive ability of great strength, it should appear sooner, so the set FEELS stronger. Make Hurl do damage in a small radius AOE. =This is to remedy a remarkable lack of AOE in Super Strength. I will respond to explain anything someone doesn't understand, or if someone wants me to elaborate in some way. Beyond that I will not comment further.

And this stuff right here is why I can't be bothered to carry on talking about this. EVERY SINGLE DAMN POST I make I have to spend an incredible amount of energy arguing over NOTHING. Semantics. Just nonsense, and I'm frankly sick and tired of it. I came to make a suggestion. You don't like it. Fine. I'm done arguing about it. You don't like ME, I don't give a crap. I've made my suggestion, and I'm not going to waste my time and energy fighting over it. Call me a troll. Spit on me with your mockery. I don't care anymore. I'm done with arguing over nothing.

Well, I see what you're all saying, but I wasn't really looking for an argument, I just wanted to make the suggestion. They can do what they will with it.

Unless it works differently than I understand, slotting wouldn't affect the damage of the knockback. For instance, Hand Clap doesn't DO damage, so you couldn't slot damage enhancements in the power. The knockback would do a little damage, but you can't slot damage enhancements into that either. You COULD slot to increase knockback, which would do more damage, but you can slot those enhancements now.

There is some truth to this. A lot of what I'm aiming at is conceptual. Strength is used to MOVE things. SUPER strength would be used to move things normal strength cannot. This is why I suggested Rage increasing the magnitude of the knock effect, so enemies that cannot be moved by normal strength COULD be moved by Super Strength. The reordering of the set so Hurl comes earlier is also to provide the most conceptually grounded power at an earlier point, so the set feels stronger, longer. Adding damage to knockback just seems logical to me, as being sent flying through the air to slam into a wall, or the ground, should hurt. It would also make knockback a bit more desirable, as it's kind of a maligned effect at present.

I don't agree that it would be more viable. Control sets are reliable. Knock effects in Super Strength are not (mostly). Only Hand Clap is a sure knock, and I'm FINE having it knock even AVs, since the point is to make the effect have STRENGTH. The other knocks are not certain, and the effect would only last as long as Rage does.

It depends on how they go about it. I don't know how it's programmed, so I'm speculating here, but it's a matter of increasing the magnitude of the knock effect, such that even AVs will be (or rather, can be, since no attack is 100% going to knock them) knocked, but not so much that GMs, Hamidon and other immovable objects would not. I feel like we're arguing semantics. Perhaps using the word "unresistable" is inaccurate, if so that's on me.

I already addressed that. Things that CAN be moved should be moveable. Some things simply cannot be moved, and they would remain immovable.

Can I assume they're removing the consistent knock on Air Superiority then? It's entirely possible NOW to permanently juggle an enemy. Now, Rage would temporarily allow you to do that to an AV or EB or Boss, but it's SUPPOSED to, since a super strong character is supposed to be able to move things that otherwise can't be moved.

Well... I can't imagine applying knockdown to things like pylons or other objects that don't move. It would also be possible to counter unresistable knocks by using something like Unstoppable, which increases knock resistance even further. I also don't see it being a problem because it would work both ways, as enemies would knock the PLAYERS while Rage is running as well. Finally, it would only be unresistable while Rage is running, which isn't all the time. Moreover, you don't knock enemies with every punch. I'd say maybe 20% of my Super Strength attacks knock enemies around (just a guess, really). I'm only suggesting that characters would not be able to resist those knocks, meaning they would be knocked around 20% of the time instead of 0%. In short, there WOULD be some exceptions (eg. Giant Monsters, static objects, etc.) to unresistable knocks, and there would be counters to it as well, in addition to it not being available or happening all the time.

I was only using Street Justice as an example. I find that it is more effective overall, largely because of the availability of AOE earlier in the set. It has TWO area effects before L20 (or just after, for tankers), while Super Strength has none until L30. It isn't going to drastically change anything to swap Hand Clap and Hurl, and is better thematically. As I mentioned, Hurl is the only power in the set where the character lifts something ostensibly heavy, and Hand Clap is better used as a higher tier power, as it's generally depicted in the comics as a higher tier ability (eg. it's kind of the Hulk's signature power... even for Statesman, it's a higher tier ability). In the end, the goal is to add a bit of function and flavour. Hitting multiple foes at once "feels" stronger than one at a time. The addition of a little damage to knockback wouldn't be a drastic change to the performance of the set, and would affect OTHER sets as well. I'm not suggesting a huge amount of damage here, just a bit of extra damage, relative to the amount of knockback done. For example, suppose the power did 100 damage and knocked the enemy 10 feet. Perhaps he'd take an additional 10 damage. If he was knocked 5 feet, only 5 damage. You get the idea. Nothing game-breaking. My suggested change to Rage is more for theme than anything. In the comics, we see characters with super strength knocking enemies around, no matter how massive or resistant. For example, I think we would agree that Darkseid is a character most heroes wouldn't budge with a punch, but Superman knocks him around often. Likewise, if Superman was in this game, he'd have Invincibility, with it's knock protection... but he is also knocked around by Darkseid (or Captain Marvel, or a host of other super strong characters). It would mean a tiny bit of extra damage from the knockback, but again I expect it would be trivial. My goal here, as is always the case, is to better represent what we see in the source material, while also making Super Strength a little more effective in ways that aren't based on damage output (ie. area effects). Again, I'm not seeing how it would cause any harm to anything, and the benefit would be conceptually substantial, while adding only the slight performance tweak I think the set could use. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just think it's something that would be beneficial. You're welcome to disagree, but I hope you see my point.

Indeed. The thing is, the changes I suggested wouldn't change the performance of the set all that much. It would add a little damage due to the knockback, but beyond that, the only real changes are to swap the order of a couple of the powers (Hurl would come earlier, since it's the only power in the set where you lift something heavy), and to add a little more AOE earlier in the set, which the set could definitely use (as mentioned, the only AOE damage in the set is the LAST power in the set). So, I stand by my suggestion. Can you say why NOT tweak the set? That is, how would my suggested changes harm anything?

That's fair. I mean, it's not BAD, I just think it's not as good as other sets.

So... I've commented before that I feel Super Strength kind of underperforms, and after playing some characters with Street Justice lately, I'm more convinced of it than ever. The main thing is the AOE. Street Justice has several AOE powers, Sweeping Cross, which characters get EARLY, and Spinning Strike, which characters get around L20 (depending on AT). Super Strength gets ONE AOE power, Foot Stomp, which is the LAST power in the set. There is Hand Clap, but it doesn't really do anything productive (knocking foes away is counterproductive to most characters who have Super Strength, as their armours rely on things like Invincibility or Rise to the Challenge). There's also very little "flavour" of being STRONG in Super Strength. I have three suggestions to improve Super Strength. First, swap Hand Clap and Hurl. Make Hurl an aoe at point of impact. Second, make Knockback inflict damage, relative to the amount of knockback done. This does mean Hand Clap would do a little damage, not from the clap itself, but from the knockback... which would maek it a bit useful, even if it does knock foes away. Third, alter Rage so it makes all knockback UNRESISTABLE. We see characters like Superman or Hulk, who would certainly have powers like Unyielding if present in this game, getting knocked back all the time, but usually just by characters who are ALSO super strong. Super strength is used to move things that people without superhuman strength cannot move. It's entirely appropriate to see super strong characters knocking Lord Recluse, or Hopkins, or any other AV back, because they're STRONG. TLDR: Swap Hand Clap and Hurl. Make Hurl an AOE at point of impact. Make Knockback inflict damage, relative to the amount of Knockback done. Make Rage make Knockback UNRESISTABLE.

Well... just that they're not very sneaky. Ninjas are known for their stealth, more than anything, then the devastating strike from the shadows. The whole Stalker class is based around them. The Genin don't have any stealth at all, and Smoke Flash only gives it to them for a moment. Agreed, there is Grant Invisibility from the Concealment pool (and I did try using that), but it only affects them one at a time, and they STAY invisible even in combat, which isn't quite in character either. They should be invisible until they strike, then become visible.

I have expanded this mission into a full 5 mission arc! Now more challenging and interesting! Give it a try and offer some feedback, I'm always interested in improving my work.

Thanks for the tips! The lack of a proper wall section with a doorway in it is an egregious oversight by the developers (the original ones, I mean... the Homecoming guys have had more important things on their plates), and my efforts to make them manually have always ended up looking terrible. The current system of a wall with a static door and a gap above is kind of a temporary measure. I thought about putting the vendors out in the parking area, but they seemed kind of out of place, so I put them not too far into the house, kind of the reception/administration area (the X-Mansion was a school, after all). I think they're all there. I put extras in places I thought were appropriate (eg. a nurse in the medical area, a trainer in the classroom). I'm still trying to decide what to do with the "danger room" area in the basement. I would love to be able to put targeting dummies in there, or better yet, spawnable enemies to actually fight (similar to the testing area in Champions Online), but that might be a lot to ask. It's fine as it is for now... the suggestion of a danger room is sufficient for now. I did have one other minor concern, the order that the floors are listed when interacting with the doors to the "stairs" is a bit borked. So, when you go in the front door, the door in front of you is the "stairwell," going UP to Beth Point (2nd floor) and DOWN to Lamedh Point (basement). Of course, from the basement, your only option is the 1st floor, Aleph Point. However, if you're on the 2nd floor, it lists Aleph Point (1st floor) first, then Kaph point (attic) second. This makes it look like Kaph point is LOWER. I would rather Kaph Point be listed ABOVE Aleph, but I don't know how to make it do that.

I should have said, apologies. I play on Excelsior.