Joshex

Posting this again as I did not get any responses to it. I think I have just the condition! Afterburner is supposed to be active while moving and flying. so? the player should have to 1: not be held or immobilized, 2: have moved with flight/hover and afterburner active recently. While not moving we could drop the base to +1.5% or 2.28% def all, then if the player has moved or is moving, have the base jump to +10% def all base and last for the duration of an average click type power from the end of flying movement before dropping back down to 1.5 or 2.28. so that way, if you are just sitting in a large group trying to farm, after like 180 seconds your def will drop around 7% or more. gotta keep moving to keep it active. could also make a minimum movement time to reactivate the full 10% like, have to be moving for 10 seconds to get the full base or have to move #distance (feet or meters) in one consecutive motion. This would be valid. at least I think so, it wouldn't effect people who use it for travel protection as they will still get the full amount cause they are moving, yet it will supply "Something" in battle rather than preventing you from attacking. what does everyone think?

according to the description it shouldn't. maybe it's a bug. "This power only grants flight protection while Hover, Flight, or Group Fly is active. " but it doesn't work fine in battle flying or not. this is my main point of consideration, it should do something in battle. maybe new mids does, the game does, but I was just going from mids as it was at shutdown (still haven't upgraded). It can be used with hover but doesn't really increase things much. maybe that can be another condition necessary for use in battle, you can only use it in battle with hover, not flight.

I had considered that, then again I just remembered after posting this thread, we have [Vengeance] in the leadership pool which supplies about the same def, the difference is it has a requirement that it can only be used when a team mate has fallen, and only for a limited time thereafter. Both powers however require you to have 2 other powers in the pool to get them, this is part of their "cost" compared to the lower tier powers such as hover, combat jumping etc. which do not have any prerequisites and can be taken very early (no min level, where veng and afterburner have a moderate min level (14 vs 4 or 6 with hover and CJ). This is why combat jumping and hover and maneuvers have such reduced rates of def in comparison. Afterburner already has 1 such consideration similar to vengeance it can only be used while a flight power is active. Ergo, if you get sapped and even only your flight power or hover goes down and all other toggles are still running, afterburner will drop until this is rectified. This is considered to be a conditional activation, much like vengeance also has a conditional activation. the difference is you can still attack with vengeance on, but it requires a fallen teammate. kinda not something you can rely on. another difference is toggle VS. click-type, veng is click type. if we could think of a valid additional condition for it's continued use, I think we could make Afterburner into an "in battle" power vs "only affecting self" power, we would just need such a condition. I think I have just the condition! Afterburner is supposed to be active while moving and flying. so? the player should have to 1: not be held or immobilized, 2: have moved with flight and afterburner active recently. While not moving we could drop the base to +1.5% or 2.28% def all, then if the player has moved or is moving, have the base jump to +10% def base and last for the duration of an average click type power from the end of flying movement before dropping back down to 1.5 or 2.28. so that way, if you are just sitting in a large group trying to farm, after like 180 seconds your def will drop around 7% or more. gotta keep moving to keep it active. could also make a minimum movement time to reactivate the full 10% like, have to be moving for 10 seconds to get the full base or have to move #distance in one consecutive motion. This would be valid. at least I think so, it wouldn't effect people who use it for travel protection as they will still get the full amount, yet it will supply "Something" in battle rather than preventing you from attacking. what does everyone think? I had thought of other ancillary pools, I ended up getting Munitions for the body armor surveillance and rocket. besides to get the patron pools you have to do the villain patron archs.. not that I don't want to, but not on a character I want to be pure hero.. if anyone can understand how I feel there. yeah I made another thread about this already... electric blasting is.. weak. very weak compared to other ranged sets. even it's most powerful attacks are significantly weaker than other sets most powerful attacks. so in situations where for a blaster, it is kill or be killed, electric blasting dies. It just can't pop the damage on fast enough. always need a good setup and 2 misses in a group of 4 or more may be all it takes to die. a hidden yellow con around a corner you didn't see is almost certain death.

I had that thought, that it might protect from snipers. but in my mind I never considered that as a valid cost of giving up another power choice, or 2.. But thanks for the input. I still think allowing us to use it in battle would be good. that would make it more than just a travel protection power in between missions. I had made a build in mids that was relying on it, then.. well I finally got to getting it and realized my fault.. it can't be used in battle. Would you, or anyone have any grievances against making it able to be used in battle with no def reduction? the full +10% def base. I'm really hoping the devs will do something about this. as things stand, my build... it's less interesting now.. I thought I finally cracked how to make a blaster that could stand solo in +4 missions, rather than always struggling at -1.

So, you have to choose 2 powers in the flight pool to learn that while afterburner is on, you cannot attack other targets.... I'd be happy if we just reduced the +def output and made it so it can be used in battle. I mean whats the purpose of a power you can;t use in battle that applies + def? This power needs to be fixed, please. before that though, is there anyone out there that actually uses it? why and what for? I suppose it could be good for a mastermind who lets his pets do 100% of the fighting. please enlighten me on if it's valid and how. thanks.

also the point of a word in a language, is that if you know a word you shouldn't have to ask what someone means when they use it.

There are even rules for how languages can change and evolve, one such rule is the new language term has to be 1: accepted and know to everyone (check), 2: have a clear meaning within context that cannot be misconstrued to mean something else (the word cannot be open to interpretation during use) (rule not met.). nope. I have clearly laid out the 4 meanings they have implied as I have seen them. "any thing to add to team damage is ok" "must also have the ability to survive with damage" "must be a damage centric at" "can be anything built for damage" it's unclear, you cannot call something a valid language article if it only explains part of it's own meaning, the only thing DPS implies in this context is "Damage" which is only the D in DPS. the rest is open to interpretation and needs to be clarified to be valid.

no, I don't understand I would have to ask if my blaster or tank is OK. I can generally think they might need some sort of damage, but what they mean exactly is not clear sheerly because it's all upto the person who typed DPS to define what they mean. thankyou for that, see, we rarely use it in game, but I was not aware there was an official list of meanings. I am familiar with all 3. this is what I encountered as well. there is no listing for "a type of playstyle/class/role or at".

no, I was prepared to just give up on trying to change their viewpoints if that was the case, then just proceed to use it correctly from my end and ignore incorrect usages of it in chat, not ignoring users, but rather ignoring their implications..

situational (locale) context. it's the same with "pop" in the UK they have no clue what you mean, you have to say "soda" or "juice", oddly enough juice has a completely different meaning in the states. even so, you will find communities who use it in one specific way. CoH qualifies as a community, here we don't have any official texts to denote the meaning of DPS, so it's technically not a phrase with any other meaning than as an acronym. To suggest otherwise is merely to (as stated); create confusion as to the meaning. CoH doesn't have 1 or a few "DPS" ATs all ATs can be DPS built, so to use it in this context here.. makes no sense and has too many meanings. I was around when it came into being, and I was on hiatus in online gaming when it "evolved". I only came back for CoH. been years. 1985 if you must know, my first game system I can remember was a green/yellow pixel dot matrix gameboy, before that I played mainly atari and NES at a friends house. Arcades and cardgames such as MTG were a fun past time. I find fault with the term as used for the reasons stated, it would need to be more clear. and I know that DMG predates it. so there is no need to use DPS in this manner.

1: the point of this thread is to clarify my position, and attempt to enlighten people with it, and if that failed I'd just write them off as obviously emotionally drawn to the new usage and thus theres no saving them.. 2: It was an English lesson. in this case the main point of it was not the words with which you find fault but instead the acronym with which this thread is named after. By explaining that acronym's meaning and explaining why it cannot be correctly understood when used in the "new way" due to meaning conflicts, I have succeeded in making this an English lesson on that one core topic. which was the point. 3: Chinglish was appropriate in this context and was not used in a derogatory manner, the English training school I work for is in fact a chinese company in china, many times they make thier own lesson power-points and specifically ask us to look for errors and list "chinglish" in that exact terminology as one of the things to look for, because they know English isn't their primary language. Chinglish has become a term in the teaching community that is not offensive or derogatory but rather to point out when grammar or other language attributes a student or material may insist are correct are not and that it is due to their own language's attributes not English. 4: You can't nullify future arguments that have yet to happen. 5: language, as a set of signals must be clear and concise. regardless if you and someone else agree on a meaning for a term, if others in the same context agree that it means something different, then theres a communication problem by having multiple meanings and it needs to default to the original meaning. 6: English as a language is primarily rooted in latin, with a secondary germanification, and a tertiary french inclusion of vowel use. it is not an abstract language based on thought. Each word can be traced to a latin meaning by dissecting and comparing parts of the word and degermanifying the word. 7:the sentence structure was more akin to ancient anglosaxon languages such as Gallic, No, the majority of the language is not composed of slang, it is composed of germanified Latin. thereby it's not slang at all. to call english "mostly slang" would be to call german "entirely latin slang" which would be incorrect and offensive, just as it's incorrect and offensive to insinuate that English is "mostly slang". 8:The change and discarding of the meaning of a word in English must be complete and total to happen at all. there can for instance be two words in English with the same spelling and pronunciation but different meanings. the catch is that they must be used with-in a grammatical context otherwise you are left asking which one they mean. one of the strong points of English is that context means we never have to ask which meaning they meant. D.P.S. as a class or AT or role does not pass this test, thus it is disqualified. 9: your 9th argument is negated by my 8th. DPS as a class noun has 4 meanings that all could be interpreted in the same context. it wouldn't matter if you made it into another meaning IF it was clear what you meant by it to everyone. lacking that clarity and allowing 4 different meanings in the same context is not valid, even for slang. 10: again languages are ONLY what we make them IF what we make them is clear and concise and obeys the rules of the language set before hand, in this case the grammar rules are not being followed and the meaning of the word is up for debate.. so no. Language isn't just a free for all. there is such a thing as language abuse and this is a perfect example of it. DPS is a word now, it means Damage Per Second. it's a gaming term to describe the average number of damage you can deal over time. due to ambiguity in the class/role noun, the meaning of such cannot be concretely gleaned so it does not meet the criteria for a new English word.. Context and concrete meanings are key aspects of a real word. lets make a silly example: "iftsx" (good luck pronouncing that one.) lets say I say the meaning is "1 person" but someone else feels it should mean "1 anything", then someone else thinks it should mean "1 man" and another thinks it should mean "1 woman", there is now a conflict in the infancy of the word. That conflict will have to be fixed before it can be a valid language article. DPS has that conflict in the "new meaning". and getting everyone to come to the same conclusion about it's meaning when it is "open to individual interpretation" is very unlikely. So that being said, it does not fall under the same rules as "gay" or "queer" which have concrete meanings in their new intended usage.

and it replaced a more appropriate term "DMG". yes my tank is a win/win. crap tonnes of def, res, regen and damage. Before Recently (the last few years) I never heard of DPS as a type of class or description of a class. Before that it was merely a statistical calculation. It took me by surprise when I had to teach a lesson on MMOs and they said DPS meant damage dealer, I thought it was a case of chinglish and corrected it. That's how new this incorrect usage is. given the lesson was about WoW I assumed it must have originated over there in this context and let my mind fill in the blanks "someone said 'wow my dps is good on this', then someone else said 'I'm gonna make a character like that and be a DPS too' and it all went down hill from there." in fact the more I dig into this the more I'm inclined to believe this is generally speaking how it went down. I think I'm done here, from here on, everyone who actually even in the slightest notices the problems with the term being misused this way has already read this thread and decided not to use it that way. From the rest of this thread it would seem it's nothing more than attempts to justify it without addressing it's flaws. It's a phrase that means something different to each player that uses it.. that alone disqualifies it's usefulness. There's no justifying that, even if other people started using it and it becomes a standard term in other games (for what ever reason, whether they were knowledgeable about the original usage or ignorant, it really doesn't matter at this point.), there is still no justifying it because it has 4 possible meanings in the same context. Use dmg or dd if you must, those terms are far older and far predate dps in this wrong usage.. DPS means the rate at which you can deal damage averaged over time, end of story. it's a number. No, you cannot be one; Are you a number? you can have High DPS, or OK DPS, or Low DPS, if you must; you can say "I'm a High DPS build" where Build is the AT/class noun and DPS is the numeric noun, and high is the adjective. English lesson over.

a DMG tank. it's validly "DPS" by being damage according to your rules, and validly a tank. assuming it has to be one might be an argument fault. I have my own personal nuke, with heavy armor. so again the term DPS as a noun to describe a class is wrong. grammatically, and in the fact it has too many meanings.

In this case DPS can have 4 meanings. Which do you mean? it's far too ambiguous. My tank is built for damage does that make it not a tank? would you argue it is a tank but not DPS? Sure it doesn't mean much in this game. and that's because it's not suited to this game. It evolved into "a DPS" in other games and has no relevance to CoH at all. just like we wouldn't talk about "your class role" we would say "your AT". DPS itself as a game acronym may go way back but not in this usage of "a DPS" that's rather new.. DMG goes way back before DPS (before online games). And as stated the original meaning of DPS was "a number" as a noun. To call yourself or your AT/class "A DPS" back then.. would not have been understood. Just use DD or DMG, LV 50 DMG LFT. but yeah the ambiguity of the acronym when used as a class type is bolstered by your post.

as stated, some players want a brute or scrapper, because they want something with primary or secondary armor. survive-ability "high" + damage. It's no joke. I however find the whole thing comes down to the varied interpretations of the term DPS when used as a non-numeric noun object. I've encountered 4 different variations of the term in this context: 1: Any damage works, help us build more damage, AoE probably preferred but not required 2: Survive-ability + high damage 3: must be a damage centric AT, regardless your build, so you can't be a tank built for damage. 4: anything with high damage regardless the AT. The meaning is typically one of these 4 depending on the individual using it. but which one depends on the player. That's why I think we shouldn't use it at all. I don't and wont and haven't. except in the context of the numerical noun.

It's popped up recently on Torch, I suspect they are migrants from other games who have yet to learn the way we do things here.

Thanks for the info. and notice the "In CoH" at the beginning there, the acronym itself may predate CoH, but in CoH the acronym evolved in usage by these means. yes I'm aware of DD, mentioned that in-game and got flamed. Hence this topic.

The "Enghlish automanufactyurer of Beijing" announced today that it's newest car model would have gas tank access on both sides of the car so no matter which side you pull up to the pump it is correct. they expect thier proud new "Dual Penetration System" to save drivers lots of headaches and time and over take the whole world's auto standards.

D.P.S. stands for Damage Per Second. in CoH the term D.P.S. is not even mentioned in the official texts. It evolved from players who wanted to get under the hood of their characters, and fine tune what combos and enhancements and powers and slots gave them the best ability to deal out their best potential damage. Every character has a D.P.S. rating. it is an average over time in which a player would consider they have played to their full potential then add up all the damage dealt and divide by the number of enemies. D.P.S. is a number. Further more as players evolved we realized D.P.S. isn't even what you want to go for in this game to max out your potential, instead it's KPS (Kills per second) or XPPS (XP Per Second) you'd be surprised, you could have amazing DPS and still fall short of someone who has arguably less DPS because they have more XPPS. Short of explaining how that can be possible, lets just say debuffs and more targets and move on to the next DPS point. "I'm A DPS" Not only does it sound weird, as the grammar is wrong, and after doing research I found this language did not originate in CoX at all but in WoW and LoL, this mis-use is what some would say is the most understood term for a damage dealer across all games. Not to get into the fact that the origin was from individuals whose native language was not English and they misattributed the acronym to mean Damage dealer.. let's just examine what people think about it. Blasters, Blasters have some of the Highest DPS in game, arguably more so than brutes, scrappers and stalkers. arguably the highest DPS in the whole game as an AT (Archetype), but "I'm a DPS" people wont agree that blasters are a DPS Archetype. *face palm of shame* This means that the entire concept of "A DPS" is entirely abstract and depends on the individual perspective of the player(s) involved in usage of the term. and also means it can lead to arguments. "LF DPS" "OK I've got a kick butt blaster, brb" "Blasters aren't DPS bring something else" argument ensues. As an abstract word it does not even classify as slang as even slang has a concrete meaning if even based on context where as DPS depends on the personal viewpoints of a player, which disqualifies it as a valid language article when used in this manner. so Why isn't a blaster "A DPS", apparently some players would assume "A DPS" must have decent survive-ability to be able to stand on it's own so that it can actually deal the damage it's capable of doing. the acronym D.P.S. does not have the letters to suggest this, as such this abstract concept has been incorrectly tagged on to a term that doesn't support it, thus the meaning is wrong. While I take back and apologize for my use of the word "ignorant" to describe such players. -seriously I really shouldn't rebuke you for it sorry about that. If you are going to argue, fine. guess some people don't care about linguistic accuracy and just want to use things the way others have preset them. But keep this in mind; using such an abstract in-concrete term in such a grammar state, does make players who know better facepalm. So, what? theres no replacement, at least not as well known as DPS right? Actually since the dawn of gaming there has been a term for this, especially since old games often had to abbreviate things to 3 letters to save space. "Dmg" is the global standard gaming abbreviation for Damage. long before DPS was even born. Correct usage is as such: LV50 DMG LF team TF LF L50 DMG if you want a Tank + high damage or at least something that can stand in a mob and not die while dealing high damage, again DPS is inadequate to convey this. instead we have brutes, scrappers and stalkers. some MMs can do nicely and some trollers can do amazing beyond your expectations. but generally speaking, if you want damage that can stand, though we don't have a zerker named Archetype in CoH, you still can ask for a "Zerker". but DPS just sounds silly, like a bad adult joke. So don't use it. leave that for those people over on WoW and LoL who don't know any better. it's not Dual Pistols, close but I think pistols isn't the word you'd find in an adult joke. "LF DPS", ah. didn't know you liked it that way.

If anyone knows better than me, please correct me. I mostly just use matricies in code, it handles all the math for me (hence me not knowing what physical changes will happen based on it.) I was forced to learn these in uni, and managed to learn how to mathematically operate on matricies. but they never explained what the matrix actually meant or what sort of data was where. they taught us how to convert a vector or set of vectors into a matrix, but I forgot that. My main concern is after searching for a way to get the information for a single axis from a 3 axis rotation matrix, there really is no way other than converting it to a set of euler degrees.. to me that just seems silly. so because I may be ignorant of such a method, I was asking here. lets simplify my questions a bit: 1: lets say I have a matrix defining the orientation (3D angle) of an object to show where it's pointing. now lets say I want to get the amount of X axis rotation out of this matrix so I can modify it and put it back. how can I do that? 2: next, lets say I have 2 points in 3D space, and I want to get the local 2D angle between those points and set that angle as the angle of an axis (lets say Y), how would I do this so I can just easily add it to an existing matrix, or replace the current Y axis in the matrix with this new angle? 3: what does transposing an object's orientation matrix do to the angle it is pointing? does it change (how)? does it stay the same?

In a 3D rotation(orientation) matrix, the trigonometry used to find the grid space change a point encounters during rotation by a Euler angle is arrayed in a hap hazard 3x3 Matrix where the math to convert from a Euler angle to the new point of rotation on X, Y and Z Axes overlap in the 3x3 space. I need to be able to isolate each axis individually from the matrix as it's number (or set of numbers) so they can be easily callable via scripting so I can mathematically operate on a single axis.. Also I need help to then merge multiple matricies representing the axes of orientation into a single matrix which defines all 3 axes (is it just adding matricies together?). If it helps, I am working in local orientation, vs global. But that shouldn't matter for the general methods of operating on a matrix. Also I would like to create a single axis orientation matrix based on the angle between 2 given points in 3D space assigning the axis myself based on which set of points are being referenced. for example I have an X set of points and a Y set of points to go with a Z set of points. A further and more simple question has to do with the means of operating on the matrix I have at all, according to the programming api I am using, the orientation matrix needs to be transposed to be used with the Matrix math tools. What physical change would this transposition create on the physical orientation of the object? would I have to transpose back when I'm done to be consistent? In my opinion we really need a more simple system for 3D rotation and orientation, a matrix of sine, cosine and tangent with all 3 axes thrown into literally the same cells is just a visual nuisance to programmers. However I have yet to think up a valid system to replace it; most likely a combination of a Euler angle representing the amount of change as a reference and the current point on that axis, followed by maybe just the cosine keeping each axis in it's separate tuple list for ease of reference. But yeah regardless I'm probably not going to be able to change the industry standard, regardless how unnecessarily complicated it is. and for my current software there is no way to change the system anyways, it only takes orientation matricies when setting an object's angle. so yeah help knowing what operations will get me what are kinda important. I'd appreciate some help here. thanks.

thanks for the offer of 1 bil inf but I want to earn it myself by playing. I just didn't realize I could just buy a few of the crud ones to make up for getting a crud one and sell more than one to shop lol. anyways someone else beat me to it in my hesitation and shame.

of course you can't sell a purple at a vendor I said that in my opening post, they have 0 shop value "can't sell here". my comment was about if people started dumping them on WW for 1 inf because they no longer need them. also I apologize for my harsh wording and have retracted my entire post because it was kinda stupid that I didn't see how the current system was beneficial even to me.

................. ..... ... I am defeated. you win. thank you. you are right. I retract my suggestion. sometimes things like this stare in my face and I don't see them as options. I apologize for comments about ignorance it seem it was my inability to see other options. then again, as I said I'm used to playing and dumping rather than playing the market so I didn't think of that option. Even so. I suppose there is no excuse for my insinuations and language and I hope you can forgive me for my ignorance. THANK YOU! gosh I was stupid!

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