Marbing
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Posts posted by Marbing
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Lord yes PLEASE fix Mind Control! I LOVE the mind control concept but the way it was implemented in this game is just bad. Mass Confusion < Seeds of Confusion, Mass Hypnosis < Static Field, Telekinesis = Nearly Useless. I mean COME ON!! Please revamp Mind Control!
lol sorry, but I needed to vent... Mind Control is a trigger for me...
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43 minutes ago, KelvinKole said:
You can also drive engagement through new game mechanics that don’t necessarily make things more difficult but require a change in player awareness and behavior.
Super Stunners, for example, don’t resurrect if there’s not players in range when they die. I use Kai Push a lot in the Pen Yin task force to move them away from the team right as they are about to die so they can’t Rez and sapp us all. Most teams just huddle around them as they die and power through it, but make the resurrection deal more damage or inflict a mag 20 hold or something and player behavior starts to change.
As a few ideas, we could create enemies that can’t take damage unless under a status effect, Warhulks could do double the current damage when they explode but don’t do any if they are held when killed, council wolves could have a velocity effect that increases their damage as the move, cot mages could blow up the corpses of surrounding minions, sky raider porters could take a nearby player with them when they go (lol!).
these are probably all bad examples, but I think you get the point. Difficulty is only one way to improve engagement, there’s lots of ways to force consciousness and strategic play.
This 100%. While I still think more difficult things could be added, I am much more interested in any content that forces a player/team to PAY ATTENTION to what they are doing. That type of content is far more engaging than just straight difficulty.
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Just now, Super Atom said:
Anyone who thinks Brutes/Cor's aren't good to have on teams aren't worth teaming with.
I have noticed HC is more chill about this, most teams I am on don't care at all, lol half the time the team is 4 brutes, 3 blasters, and... me. 🤣
But I have had conversations with people in game that have the following rationale:
"I don't need your controller because we do enough damage that your added control is pointless so I'd rather have a Defender because their heals/buffs/de-buffs are better than yours."That's not an exact quote but more the main point of a larger conversation... sigh...
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56 minutes ago, Apparition said:
That is already the case. I have personally seen Brutes being asked if they have other characters to switch to as it was felt that Brutes don’t do enough damage and Tankers make better tanks. Many times, I have seen people being told not to make Corruptors and to make Defenders instead for better buffs and debuffs with similar or better damage.
I remember back on live my Corruptor would straight up get dropped in favor of a defender. The same thing would happen to my controller too. Teams preferred the Defender.
That doesn’t happen as much on HC that I’ve noticed but it was DEFINITELY a thing on live. I remember getting kind of ticked off about it actually, led to me creating more Defenders.
I will agree that adding harder content will probably exacerbate this, which is why other forum topics are out there discussing balance issues between AT’s and what the source of those issues are. Despite this, I still very much would like to see some harder content added without replacing causal gameplay.
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Titan Bane <--- badge/accolade name
Accolade power (if there is one):
Titan Bane
A clickable self buff with:
1 min duration10 min recharge (not affected by global recharge)
Gives all your attack powers a stackable -50% regen, -10% to-hit, -10% res, -15% def
for 15 seconds each stack if the target is a Giant Monster.
That would be pretty cool and relatively useful for future GM encounters, especially if you intend to solo them.
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25 minutes ago, Blackfeather said:
Hey @th0ughtGun! Saw this post of yours here:
And thought this thread might be of interest to you! Would definitely be interested in hearing your thoughts on it.
Well hello there!
I read through some of the stuff and I have to say I side on the "mo options mo betta" team. I see no issue with adding this as an option to the game. Who cares if it won't be used much? I guarantee you it will still be used. There are tons of players out there that like to play the game as difficult as possible. This is just adding another way to do that. I suppose you could argue that if you want to play like that then don't get IO sets or have a build that has none. But that is tedious and tedium just isn't all that fun. So having the option to get all the IO sets you want and then just turn them off to make your experience more difficult is a great way to do this. I believe these options already exist in Arena play, right? So it wouldn't be all that hard to extend it to the notoriety menu.
I would take this one step further also, why not add content (missions or story arcs) to the game that under certain circumstances your set bonus' are turned off. Something about the story of that mission that weakens you and your team, maybe it even disables your incarnate abilities! Then the toons that aren't affected would be ones that didn't have any incarnates or IO sets. Food for thought!
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I like the ideas represented here!
More troublesome enemies like minions or leuts that have a big impact on the field is a good idea. Sappers are a pain in the rear and can cause team wipe if they are not taken care of quick. I'd also like to see more healer type enemies that can put out big heals and buffs on the mobs, not just single target heals every once in awhile but big aoe heals and big aoe buffs. And then in that same group you could have a tank like enemy with taunt. Just simple things like that would make that encounter much more difficult than your typical smash and burn.
I would also like to see more enemies with a confuse power. I know it is super potent but think about how much more attention you would have to pay if there is a mob putting out confusion regularly! It would keep you on your toes, gotta take that dude out fast!10 hours ago, Super Atom said:Actually, it wouldn't be too late to reintroduce extended end-game progression if they introduced the rest of the incarnate system. Could make new trials for those and have it like it was on live. Just would need to use new incarnate salvage you can't get other than the trials and etc
Expanding incarnates to the originally planned out ones that never made it into live is a great way to add end-game content and storylines. It would be a huge ask of the devs but would be a great opportunity to add new and more difficult content to the end game! Maybe we keep the current content how it is and the more difficult stuff we are talking about gets added to that effort? That would at least be a good start! Two birds one stone and all.
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3 minutes ago, aethereal said:
I mean, I think also that a lot of content is SO easy. Like, if you can solo +4/x8 (and a lot of people can), then 8 people on the team who all can solo +4/x8... that's a lot. It's gonna take an enormous amount of increased difficulty to catch back up to "about ten times the power necessary to overcome this mob."
Agreed. That is where other balance measures must be taken, to even things out. But there seems to be a lot of resistance to that... So was trying to approach this from a different angle.
But you are right, a simple level increase to the mobs (optional or not) wont solve all of our problems. I do, however, still think the option should be there as an addition to other changes that would need to be made around that.
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2 minutes ago, Apparition said:
They hit more often and do more damage, but not enough to be really noticeable if people keep buffs up like they should be doing anyway. Greater difficulty has to come in through either nerfs, new mechanics like America's Angel pointed out, or both. Greater level differences aren't going to do it.
Hmm... I see your point, to an extent. Just creating larger HP bags. I will say it wasn't my only suggestion though, but part of a larger suggestion. I see nothing wrong with people being able to increase their personal difficulty past +4. But you are right, it wouldn't be the end all be all solution. It would have to be part of a larger solution.
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23 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:
The only issue here is that the level shifts are optional on the player's end, and fighting beyond +4 for those who we cannot guarantee are shifted is simply a slog and a half.
The option to raise our own difficulty beyond +4 would also be optional though. And mobs that are level shifted would only be in incarnate zones, where you wouldn’t want to go unless you were level shifted.
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Since it is a bit off topic and a different discussion, I opened a thread to discuss adding more difficult content to the game:
Just FYI in case anyone wanted to take that discussion there, so that this thread can remain about proc balance. 😄 No offence to anyone intended.
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So in the discussion about procs it seems there are a lot of us out there that would like to see more difficult content added to the game. I would like to start this thread to open that discussion here.
Ideas that have been discussed elsewhere:
1) More Incarnate content, and zones (like Dark Astoria).2) More missions/story arcs with complex task that require a well coordinated team. (not just HP bags!)
3) More content that requires a fully balanced team (meaning you will NEED control, you will NEED melee, or you will NEED stealth, or whatever etc etc) to complete.
4) More missions that cap the team size below 8 but still maintains an 8 man difficulty.
5) More mobs that are level shifted themselves!
6) Let us raise our own difficulty past +4!
What other things do you think could be done? Which of the above would you like to see? Which of the above would you NOT like to see?
Let's discuss! 😄
(politely)
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1 minute ago, Bill Z Bubba said:
But the mobs aren't level shifted in DA. You are. Fighting +4s in DA while you're level shifted +3 means you're fighting +1s where in PI fighting +4s you're fighting +3s and I would have to argue that Carnies/Arachnos at +3 are more difficult than DA Banished Pantheon/Tsoo at +1 even with their baked in +13%ToHitBuff. Especially given that I'm still getting +4 rewards either way.
That's what I mean though, add in more +1, +2, etc level shifted mobs in some zones, or let us raise the difficulty past +4.
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Add procs with secondary effect buffs, so that Corruptors/Controllers/Masterminds and make up some ground buff/debuff wise vs Defenders. Add more chance to hold/disorient/sleep procs in the game and increase their effectiveness and even make some of them AOE so that non-control toons can make up some ground vs control toons. It seems the dmg procs help low dps toons make up ground so why not do it in reverse also? This way any AT can encroach on any other AT's performance with a sufficient build, instead of just a few having that ability. In the name of build diversity!
As far as the incarnate level shift stuff: Make more incarnate content where that would be a requirement! I know it is a huge ask, but add more end game high level content and zones (like Dark Astoria) where all the mobs are also level shifted. Add more complex missions that require real teamwork to finish (not just smash and burn content that can be run through in minutes with a team of fire/fire blasters... 😒). Ideally you would add content to the game that would require a full team of highly coordinated incarnate builds to finish, give some sort of awesome accolade at the end for finishing some set of them. Look at how Hami raids work (outside of a Hamikaze!), there are certain Mitos that can only be killed by melee, some by range, some under the affects of cc. Make more content like that! That requires a well balanced team, because you will NEED control, you will NEED range, you will NEED melee, etc etc to finish it. You can get even more creative with it than that, that is just an example. Heck even content that limits you to a team of 4 or you cant do the mission! Just brainstorming here...
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55 minutes ago, Super Atom said:
Honestly, after seeing a lot of people express their opinions and how they build and enjoy the game, nerfing procs on a whole would be a detriment to the game. However, there are a small number of procs that could be nerfed a little and some that could be beefed a little still.
like that dang guassians
I think you are hitting the nail on the head, this may be more about tweaking things instead of a straight nerf.
I’d say introduce more procs that do different things (like -tohit, -def, -reg, -rec, -hp, -end, or the opposite for player buffs), buff up the procs that are barely used so that they are more interesting and more likely to be used over a straight damage proc, and find a way to balance out damage procs (and Gaussians) so that they can’t be abused so heavily. I don’t mean nerf them entirely, find that happy medium where they can still be used to great effect but not completely abused to insanity. Especially for some of the powers mentioned here. I know people keep saying oh but that end/acc/rech is bad because of the procs blah blah so it’s a trade off blah blah but let’s get real here those things can be accounted for with incarnates and IO sets VERY easily. Not a hard mountain to climb, I do it all the time.
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19 minutes ago, Lockpick said:
Procs are fine. IMO the devs should stop trying to "balance" the game and should focus on adding new features and content.
If adding harder content is on the table I am all for it! Especially if it’s content that isn’t just HP bags but more difficult mechanisms that take a knowledgeable team to pull off.
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32 minutes ago, wjrasmussen said:
Problems in your opinion.
In your opinion. 😉
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46 minutes ago, BlackHearted said:
you're using a different definition than the dictionary uses for optimal if you think there's multiple optimal ways to do something.
I'm sorry if your upset to learn your def cap builds aren't optimal but that's math, not an opinion.
And again please stop making assertions about me or speaking to me in gendered terms... i didn't tell anyone what they should do, only pointed out the facts about the math, there's no need to be rude.Lol not upset, 😂, wow…
I couldn’t care less, just pointing out the holes in your logic.
Also, there aren’t multiple optimal ways to do one specific thing, I never said that. There are different specific things all having a specific optimization. Let’s not get it twisted, okay? I can see you are clearly upset. I am sorry about that. I will leave this be now.
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32 minutes ago, BlackHearted said:
I feel like you don't know what the word optimal means asking me something obvious like weather or not i think fire fire is the optimal blaster.. or are just being a troll at this point....two things can't be optimal.. so if one is.. the other isn't.
Self soft capped builds aren't optimal for game play in general unless you plan to play under a lot of self imposed constraints like not using insperations or external buffs.. and even then it's not always the optimal thing to do.
I was talking about speed runs b/c it is a clear example of being able to define what is and isn't optimal in a setting....the goal is obvious and you can compare times to compare results...... and ppl wanted to challenge me on that example even though the evidence is glaringly obvious.. so i pointed out how backwards it is to claim a def cap build is optimal in a speed run setting... as is supported by the evidence of the builds used to achive the best times.
And please refrain from making assertions about my thoughts on other players or what they should do with their time/efforts, As i stated i don't care what other ppl do with their builds or what they play,So because you have a different definition of optimal than me somehow that makes me a troll? Seriously?
Okay, so you have your little fire fire blaster there set up for your optimal team build and you are sitting in PI and on lfg chat you say “blaster lfg” do you also add “lfg that has some +def and +res so I can reach my caps because I built this toon to be optimal for team play and thus rely on others!” ? No of course not, no one does that. People build for soft cap so they don’t HAVE to rely on others to get there, because in general play that isn’t alway reliable. They also do it because they want to be able to switch over to solo anytime without having to switch into a completely different build every time. People do it because it is the optimal way to make your toon viable in as many situations as possible and not just specific situations. It is optimal for the casual player. No it isn’t the optimal build for world record speed runs or for farming or for PvP or any other specific role, but people still build for it in mass for the reasons listed above. Stop trying to put everything into specific corners of gameplay. That’s not how this game works. If you want to build for speed runs, that’s great for you. If you want to build a fire farmer, go for it! If you want to PvP, that’s fantastic! But most people aren’t building for that, so stop telling people their builds aren’t optimal for YOUR style of play, because they may not be playing the game the same way that YOU do.
Wish you the best, though, bro! Have a good night!
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16 minutes ago, BlackHearted said:
Again, that's objectively not correct. Optimal team builds won't be self soft capped. If you wanna say they work just fine sure... and it is quite clearly a popular way to build... but they're not optimal, and there fore ARE sub optimal.. something being a popular idea does not make it the correct thing to do mathematically.False.
That’s just not how this game works. There are different builds for different things and no one build is the “correct” build.
Just look at the builds for those world record runs. See a pattern? All fire? Hmm looks like fire is great for speed runs doesn’t it? So only Fire is optimal then? You keep bringing up speed runs but all you have show is fire builds. So I am left to assume you believe Fire is the only thing a blaster should ever play because everything else is suboptimal.
Again, you are using a very small subset of the entire gameplay to make a point and you aren’t making the point you think you are making. Try a different approach.
Look, I get what you are trying to say, but you don’t seem to be listening to what I and others are saying.-
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38 minutes ago, BlackHearted said:
My point is that people should be realistic about math. Being over the soft cap is superfluous for a squishy AT, and that's what's gonna end up happening in a team setting if there's any buffs at all being applied to an already softcap'd build.
I don't personally have any strong feelings one way or the other about other people choosing to make sub optimal builds.Soft capped builds aren’t sub optimal, they just aren’t speed run builds. There is a huge difference and optimal depends on the situation. PUG don’t work like that and that is a far larger subset of the population than world record speed runners. I don’t see a reason to discuss this any further. The horse has been beat to death.
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8 minutes ago, BlackHearted said:
This is incorrect, as should be quite obvious, building to self soft cap on a build that is intended for team play is counterintuitive to the idea of team play and ignores all the other potential sources of defense and other buffs for the sake of this misguided notion that having a softcap build is a must.
This just isn’t how those builds work. No one suggested sacrifices to your powerset MUST be made to do this, you did. Building for softcap is never recommended at the detriment of your toons ability to actually perform. Not every build actually achieves this, the idea is to get as close as you can. I am beginning to understand the real problem here…
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1 hour ago, BlackHearted said:
Just b/c a build can solo Council radios on +4/8 doesn't mean it'll have that same performance in all content. The problem here is ppl saying "well sense i have to build for softcap it throws this that and this out of balance." B/c it's working under the assumption that building soft cap is mandatory.No, building for softcap isn’t the ONLY way you can build your toon. But it is widely accepted as the gold standard. Pretty much every PvE build out there when you search online, or in Discord, highlights how close to permanent hasten or softcap they are. Sure, you could go against the grain but let’s be real here, most people who get serious about their PvE builds are aiming for perma hasten and softcap (either range or S/L). Now this is for squishy toons, non-squishy toons it’s a little different, but perma hasten is desirable regardless of AT usually.
The idea that building around softcap is bad for teams is simply objectively false. Now, for PvP it’s a different story, because of DR. But for PvE, this is what most people are reaching for and it is for very good reason. Because it works.
@America's Angel No one has debunked anything. This discussion is still wide open. I do appreciate your positive tone throughout, though!
Most of the arguments I have seen for keeping things the way they are seem fall short of the main issue, IMO. Yes you don’t have to build for procs, but some powersets benefit far more than others and some AT’s benefit more than others due to their inherent build flexibility. This causes some AT’s to be mathematically irrelevant to other AT’s in all but only a few niche situations (like Corruptors chewing reds to out damage Defenders). No counter argument made has debunked this fact in any way.
Now, back to work! 😁
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So, I just thought of this, but has anyone mentioned the idea to have a damage proc’s actual damage scale with the AT’s base damage mod? So the same proc would do different damage dependent on the AT that uses it.
That would be a fair change across the board, would it not?
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Mind Control/Mass Confusion recharge needs a buff
in Suggestions & Feedback
Posted · Edited by th0ughtGun
So some ideas to fix Mind Control, they probably arent great ideas but just something to consider...
Mass Hypnosis:
Keep the power the same except, add a -tohit, -def, and a minor (short duration) unenhanceable slow, with a chance for an unenhanceable short duration mag 2 confuse when they are awoken from their sleep. Making this a little harder control than a simple AoE sleep. (Not for the epic version of this power, just for the Controller/Dominator version). The idea being they are awoken from a deep sleep they are going to be slower, easier to hit, have reduced accuracy and weaker minds may even be confused when they regain consciousness. Also, even if they are not slept immediately they will at least be a little groggy and thus slower/easier to hit/less accurate. I am not talking about a HUGE debuff, but something small like -5% and maybe -30% on the slow.
Mass Confusion:
Lower the recharge, add a chance for an unenhanceable mag 2 disorient. The idea being that the confusion is so potent that some weaker minds may even become disoriented for a short time. This will separate it from Seeds of confusion, especially being that this is a T9, needs some extra oomf.
Telekinesis:
Keep it the same, and either:
Remove the repel entirely, OR give the player the option to chose a location to repel them to at which point once they reach that spot, they STOP MOVING, this location can even be in the air, allowing the player to completely lift them up into the air. This would require adding a +fly component to the power for the duration of the toggle. Allowing the player to lift certain targets over a ledge, then detoggle the power to drop them, haha.
I am realistic though and understand if these changes would be too game breaking or impossible.