Zeraphia
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Posts posted by Zeraphia
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I'm going to give a review of the set and a comparison to other blast sets pretty soon before taking someone else's opinions and "running" with it. My initial impression towards this set is that it is niche, but good at what it's trying to be good at.
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I hate to be that person, and while I want to say I do not oppose the idea, my two cents opinion is that some sets are called "Battle Axe" or "Broadsword" because you're using Axes and Broadswords. You're not supposed to just use swords for BAs. It doesn't make sense, just play the other set at that point. Given however this set is named "Dual Blades" the idea of a "blade" is ubiquitous and encompassing. There are lots of themes and directions one could take while categorizing a weapon as a "blade" of some fashion. Therefore, I'm open to this idea. +1
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On 3/30/2023 at 1:11 AM, ClawsandEffect said:
What I'm getting out of that table has nothing to do with Water Jet.
Shout needs some love. There is no reason a power that takes that long to cast should have such poor damage. The only balancing factor I can think of that could explain it is the presence of -res all over the set Shout is in. But I still think a power that slow should hit like a truck.
This is a suggestion for another topic. However, the developers in HC have already modified Sonic Blast values iirc, and as such the set is appropriately "balanced" as seen fit.
Personally, I was not happy with the change. But not in the direction you liked, I was unhappy because the only reason (for me) to choose Sonic Blast was because of its -res effects. I didn't like the reduction in -res values. I personally would not be in favor of another nerf to the -res portion, as there exists several other powersets that deliver more damage as alternatives.
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Not that I find the original CoX writing bad, but generally when I create heroes for myself, I prefer ones with an original identity, and I don't seek to replicate other people's works. Sometimes I draw inspiration from artworks (as many do) but I usually give it a unique and very differentiating twist along with its own unique identity.
However, I did when I was younger enjoy creating some characters with themes that were closely related to CoX characters. One however, was the Praetorian variation, Shalice Tilman. I got lucky with the name, and actually was able to get Shalice Tilman as a name on HC before it was "dinged" and I was forced to change it. The idea behind it was basically my imagination of what Shalice would look like and be like without merging with Aurora Borealis. Shalice was rather easy, she had no use for FF in Praetoria, as evidenced by the Aurora Borealis version, so Mind/Psionic Dominator made sense. I gave her black and purple hair, along with a medium purple outfit.
Lord Recluse I imagine is one of the hardest ones to actually make a character for. The closest fitting one would probably actually be a Crab Soldier, but I think they're still very far off from being close enough to relate to him in a sincere way.
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1 minute ago, Astralock said:
Considering that many hard mode groups only allow support characters with either Cold Domination, Nature Affinity, Kinetics, or Thermal Radiation power sets on their teams, I wouldn’t call Nature Affinity underrated.Yes, but I rarely ever encounter anybody running a Nature. I've seen plenty of Kinetics and Cold, some Therms, but rarely ever Nature. It's very underrated IMO even without taking into account 4* content. The set was amazing even before then and was definitely a staple for me to keep my Nature/Sonic Defender.
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Nature. Does. Not. Get. Anywhere. Near. The. Credit. It. Deserves.
Absolutely insane utility. Absurd AoE damage boosts, more healing than empathy, much better buffs, and those buffs are exotic and hard to find in many support sets. Fantastic AoE hold aura. It is practically the most useful defense set for 4* content, amazing on iTrials, and great for pugging with friends.
Some may argue it's a little more mainstream than other options, but relative to how often I don't see them, I would say that set is massively underrated.
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Just now, Rudra said:
And waht about any other player that wants to pursue debt for any reason? Like badgers?
Oh hun, it was a joke haha
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Rudra I think you might just need a really unoptimized, very defenseless Fire/Fire Blaster build!
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You're intentionally putting yourself at a disadvantage, and requesting a change few people if any would want and benefit from. I just cannot see this realistically existing.
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I just don't feel strongly enough for this suggestion to really push for adding it.
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15 hours ago, GM Crumpet said:
Originally the way SG mode was coded meant you only got half inf while in SG mode. We kind of fudged it so you can be in SG mode for SG purposes (costume, emblem etc) and no longer lose the inf, but you also don't gain prestige. From what I can tell turning off that part was easy, but anything more complicated would more than likely hit the spaghetti code and need a lot of work and maybe even need to start from scratch. It's not a bad idea, but it hits the criteria of "What's a good idea that devs willingly spend months of coding on that will enhance the playing experience for the maximum number of players, and what's niche and will be used by a very small percentage of players". We have a small team of superb devs, but the key word is small. We don't have the resources or staff to make quite large changes unless it's going to be widely used. What we need is a team of unpaid interns we can throw something at and say "Have fun, you have till Friday" 🙂
I don't mean to be rude here, this is a sincere question, why not add more open source projects or resources? I know it's not quite as cool as "hiding the objects behind the curtain and letting the public see the changes after" that's the current method of production, but since the team is so small, why not invite the extra help in development?
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12 hours ago, nuII said:
AE is a legitimate way of playing the game and as such any fully functional LFG system would have to incorporate it.
I've been defending AE and emphasized my concern over the state its been in and how many nerfs it received in a series (justified or not.) I'm sorry, LFG does not need to serve AE. It never has, and never should. AE is its own form of advertisement, and was never intended to replace traditional content in its entirety and I'm sure if you asked any of the original CoH developers, they'd never tell you they wanted 40%+ of the LFG chat to be "LF AE farm" all day long.
The point is to actually have a way of finding teams, especially when you're recently logged in and maybe didn't see the message about a task force you wanted to join being 7/8 sports filled, 20 seconds before you load the game. That happens all the time. Sure, you could get an AE-only tab people could use, but it should be entirely segregated from traditional content such as iTrials/TFs.
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17 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:
wow guys wall of text crits for over 9000
but seriously even if you dont agree with OP (and i do sorta) the sudden acceleration set is broken. literally every other piece provides an ungodly amount of KB and then the proc removes it all? Can we globalize the proc or repair the rest of the enhancements in some way cause otherwise slotting the entire set is kinda pointless.
Unfortunately, while I love to keep things short, I have to get the point across on why some "solutions" aren't really solutions at all, and what would define being a plausible solution. It was really long and I apologize, I just wanted to actually get something out there for people who wanted a set that was actually worth slotting and not just "another crappy alternative."
Sad but I don't think anybody really likes any of my ideas. It's okay though. I did try.
I do agree though that the KB set doesn't make tons of sense as it is though and could definitely use some auditing.
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2 hours ago, Rudra said:
I'm going to go out an a limb and assume you meant you're not looking....
I hear you. As I said earlier, I understand the opposition's stance. Yours is more... I want to say benign, but that is the wrong word... I don't know.
However, if you look back through the threads, each time this comes up, it is because Lord or Lady Almighty Powermonger is upset that slotting SA's KB to KD proc hinders their uber build. However, SA gives some really nice bonuses. It is a single damage enhancement behind dedicated damage sets and gives comparable set bonuses, including set damage bonus and global recharge bonus. The bonuses are a little weaker than the best damage sets, but those small percentages are negligible. Except in the eyes of those that need to squeeze every last bit of efficiency out of their builds. So they claim "enhancement tax" because they can't build as uber as desired. Solution to that? Make sets that have a KB conversion proc that has either better bonuses, at the cost of having a higher minimum level, or grants bonuses more in line with what they say they are losing. And the response to that? No. Give us the ability to get rid of KB that doesn't use enhancement slots. Non-negotiable.
And I don't know about you or anyone else, but it is extremely frustrating when you sit down and make a character that you absolutely enjoy and you take the time to learn all the nuances and gimmicks of the powers and the moment the team you eagerly join finds out what you are playing gives you the boot. Or demands that you go and buy the KB to KD procs and slot them, right now, lack of funds notwithstanding, or leave the team. That is not a KB problem. That is a perception problem. The perception that KB is a useless mechanic that can only cause problems for the team or slow down their efficiency. Which even you have claimed with your 30-50% reduction if you add in manipulation sets statement. (And I would appreciate evidence of that, because I really don't believe it. At all.)
Yes, KB powers can be used to troll teams very effectively. However, a troll will find a way to troll their team without needing power sets that are KB heavy. They do so every day in the game. How do you deal with such a person? You boot them. Done. You can't turn to others and say "you can't use these power sets or effects because they can be used to troll us". That is unfair to the player that is just trying to play the game and be helpful. And if the player is causing problems for the team but is not doing so intentioanlly? You either help that person improve or tell that person "I'm sorry, but htis just isn't working out. Can you swap characters, stop using the problem effect, or maybe take some more time practicing with that character?" And if they prove to be a problem, you boot them.
The answer is not to give those who prefer maximum efficiency a better means of telling those that enjoy KB characters that they have to play without KB. There are better solutions. I've tried to present multiple solutions in this thread. And they can even be used together. So here you have a "KB is good" player trying to work with the players in this thread that claim KB is bad, but the only one doing any negotiating in this thread trying to find a solution that meets your needs without stepping on my concerns, is me. Does that seem like an agreeable situation to be in? We already see KB players getting told they have to slot the KB to KD procs or be booted. We already see players getting booted jsut for having Energy Blast as their primary, though fortunately a lot less often than back on Live. So answer this to me please. What option would you, as in those in favor of the OP, be amenable to that does not grant such expansive ability to kill KB?
I apologize for getting back a little bit late here, but yes, it was meant that way haha, thank you! Good catch!
I cannot speak for the experiences of others. In my view, out of the thousands of hours I've played CoH (granted, I only played a few characters with substantial knockback components) I never once came across a situation where a person with KB was actually told that they would need to slot in KB->KD enhancements in their build while in a mission or before beginning a mission or else they would get the boot. I cannot imagine it's a frequent occurrence, but maybe someone who plays something noticeably more knockback-y in a much more chaotic fashion sees different results. The only times I've seen people get genuinely kicked from a TF over it happened when someone went out of their way to be extraordinarily troll-y with it even after being warned several times it was a problem and several team members complaining about it in team chat. I don't think the "assholes taking over" thing is as big of a problem as some on the forums would make it out to be. I could however of course be very wrong.
I see a couple of different ways to combat the issue, some are more "tame" in approach than others, but they're going to be markedly "strong" in the sense that they are not going to compromise the reason to even make a change in the first place. What I mean by that is, the problem regarding EB is typically its effectiveness is boggled down in a substantial way by its effects acting counter-productively when attempting to use melee or aoe-centric powers. @Galaxy Brain pointed out a good point in a post where he says "tbf, this is a content problem more than a player/power problem. The way the game is structured favors AoE over anything else," where inherently so much of the content is designed around quickly aoe-ing down mobs of enemies, KB poses a significant hinderance to its users and teammates potentially making tasks longer to complete. As to how much longer it takes to complete, this tends to vary in experience, enemy group, level differences between player and enemy, etc. where some will just get instantly one-shot by Nova, and others will be far more resilient where the KB starts to create significant issues.
My goal then with those issues would be to address them in a way that allows EB to retain its KB-centric identity whilst providing an alternative to players who vastly prefer to transform the set into a KD-centric one because of these issues. Giving people who desire to retain KB the powerset they wanted, while granting people who are disgruntled with KB an alternative. I would try to ensure that the alternative meets the following conditions:
- Provides a KB->KD globalization in some fashion without having to use sudden acceleration or an IO into nearly every power of a set with copious amounts of KB.
- Does not decrease set diversity and aims to only increase the diversities and build complexities.
- Allows users who prefer KB to know that when making an "Energy Blast" character, that they are getting the advertised KB that they chose on the screen. It IS the default, and to get KD, you must do some personal leg-work to achieve those effects. Therefore, people who currently have EB on their characters who do not want KD at all on their powers, they have free reign to just not seek out these changes.
- If possible, an IO that even once you've decided "hey, I'd really prefer to have the majority of my powers KD, but maybe I just want this specific power to KB." To have the ability to slot a new enhancement that turns KD->KB. Basically, a reverse Sudden Acceleration that does KD->KB. This also further opens up build diversities.
With those goals in mind, my ideas would be something akin to the following options:
- A free no cost toggle, that allows you to set all of your KB powers to a KD value. When turned off, all of your powers KB again. Default when not turned on will always be that the set KB's, and further if you wish to not have this toggle shown on your screen, you can just not put it in your power tray. Or if the need be, Null the Gull just removes the power from your power selections and would act like it never existed until you talked to Null to re-enable it.
- A 6-slot IO set that at the 6th bonus, reduces all KB effects to a KD value. Default is always KB, but if you go out of your way to get this set and 6-slot it, it's pretty clear you want KD, and are not seeking to KB at all. Keeps both camps happy. I could see that possibly that maybe you need to slot this set twice before it KB->KD's and the initial 6th slot bonus just does nothing until you slot the second 6th slot bonus.
- Take the IO idea further (not sure if it's possible to code it like this) and make a global KB->KD IO that when slotted 2-3 times in unique KB powers, you have all of your KB powers set to a KD value. Adds build diversity and interesting power selection choices, while making EB+melee-centric manipulations more viable.
All of these would be strong solutions that are better than having to slot every single KB power with a KD enhancement to get it to be all KD for all of the users who just wish they could do so. I personally favor the first option, but would be fine with any of the other options. I'm also open to creative new ideas, but they have to actually address the problems without being just crappy "what's the point?" alternatives.
Further, when implementing these features, I believe it would be a welcomed message from the HC to remind others to be kind to one another. Being rude to another person because they're using a power effect you don't like is just not okay. Reminding people that these alternatives are there to exist as that, alternatives. And they are not to be intended as "if someone does not use them, they are breaking the rules or griefing."
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1 hour ago, Rudra said:
This is not a question of the "KB is good" crowd trying to force their play styles on others. This is a question of the "KB is suckage and needs to die" crowd getting even more opportunities to tell others that they are not allowed to use KB. The option to turn KB into KD is already available and can be expanded upon. To the benefit of the "KB is suckage and needs to die" crowd. The OP is a capitulation to the "KB is suckage and needs to die" crowd that will be used to further restrict the abilities of KB players from using KB, even when used to directly benefit the team. So it is a question of the "KB is suckage and needs to die" crowd's imposition of their play style on others. Which the OP will make much easier for them to do.
I guess that's your interpretation of the crowd's attitude towards a subject. Personally, my thoughts were in the category of these statements:
"Yes, KB honestly to me does suck, especially when used improperly, and too many cases are far too easy to go from 'good use' to 'really bad use.'"
"Do I support removing KB entirely as a feature entirely and replacing it with KD? No I don't at all.""Would I like an option that's more encompassing than having to destroy all of my builds with EB to make them perform at adequate levels relative to literally anything else? YES."
I'm not looking to make some "ultra god mode" build, I'm just trying to actually have a non-gimmicky secondary for a very interesting looking powerset that could function adequately. I'm not looking to destroy KB from the game. I'm not looking for excuses to clock teammates on TFs for not using it. I'm not looking for something personally to antagonize other people or take away their playstyles. I'm looking for something that generally pleases the enormous crowd that would prefer literally other than KB (self-included) for their own enjoyments without having to completely eviscerate the potential of a set. Something that doesn't make knockdown the default, you have to actively select that you want that, and keeps KB as the default, meaning if you login to any KB character you made, it still KB's without needing to change any setting, just if you want different you have an option to seek it.
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9 minutes ago, Rudra said:
It may not be overpowered, but a set that does that already exists. Making sets work the same robs them of individuality. The "single power set, different flavors" thing I was commenting on earlier.
You cannot rob something of individuality if the option that "keeps its identity" would theoretically be accessible at any given moment the user wishes to go back to the original design.
This is the same argument people will use against graphically updating a game in an older section versus leaving it how it is. The developers give a compromise solution where there's an option for the older mode and the updated one. Both were happy.
You don't have to always force everyone to play your preferred original way and deal with dramatically decreased performance as a result.
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8 minutes ago, Captain Fabulous said:
So, to recap:
"Hey, I'm loving my Energy Blaster, but I'm finding all the knockback really hurts when I team. Is there anything I can do about this?"
"Sure thing. Just put an extra slot in every power and then put in a special IO enhancement that converts the knockback to knockdown."
"Oh. What are IO enhancements and where do I get them?"
"They're a special kind of enhancement that you either craft or buy from the Consignment House."
":searches forum for info: Hmm, OK. I found them. Wow, they cost around 3 million INF each! And I need 7 of them! I'm level 34 and only have 1.1 million INF."
"Sucks to be you. You should start grinding for merits and learn how to play the market. And try not to be a nuisance until then. Learn how to control your KB. It's easy."
"How do I control an omnidirectional AoE knockback?"
"You can't."
"So what should I do until I can get all those IOs and enough slots for them?"
"Not my problem."
"There isn't an easier solution that's accessible to everyone? I mean, I don't really want to deal with IO sets or the market or anything like that. I just want to play and have fun."
"No."
"And it requires that I waste 7 slots, just so I'm not a detriment to my team? And that I need over 20 million INF?"
"Yes."
"Why?"
"Because."
"Because why? Why can't an easier solution be implemented?"
"It could, but I am vehemently against it. You need to suffer for your foolishness. You must be penalized and punished. I will broach no discussion. I have spoken."
Did I miss anything?Then you proceed to ask them why they are
They tell you some reason about it being "too overpowered,"
Then you point out that it's so viscerally not because there's a completely identical set with KD attached to it...
Then it proceeds to "well yeah you're right and you completely disproved all my arguments that it's overpowered, so just make that set instead."
Instead of just admitting that an optional choice that doesn't actually rob anyone of anything and won't powercreep anything, we just get well... this.
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17 hours ago, Greycat said:
It's a money sink. *shrug* (And no, I'm not particularly serious about it.)
Purchase a power - 10m, 50m, 100m, 250m, 500m, 1b.
Go to a zone with at least five people in it. Cannot be a supergroup base. Activate power.
There's a (very brief - 3-5 second) rain of cash. Each person gets 1000 inf just from what lands on them. (With a cap of 50 in most zones, yeah, this is burning cash...) And for the next *brief* period (3-5 minutes? *shrug*) burning piles of money appear on the ground, with random amounts if you find and click on one.
No, it won't ever equal what the person spent on the power. Though the cash piles *can* scale with the amount spent. Max in a pile is ... what, 1 million, say, at the 500m and up power. But that's rare.
Just for the person who has everything, including money to burn.
Heh I feel like this was a parody of my suggestion, but I love it!
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12 hours ago, Zect said:
I mean, this just shows your ignorance of the slotting strategy I am using as an example. Just because you aren't aware of how they work, or aren't able to make them work, and are only able to use a more conventional slotting, doesn't mean you can dismiss the balance implications for such builds out of hand.
My point was to demonstrate an example of the slot-efficiency that can be gained even when purple IO's are used, using highly effective procbombing builds as a showcase, hence making a powerful balance argument against this ignorant suggestion. Your attempts at nit-picking aside, you've yet to address any of my core points of 1) huge slot-efficiency gain for all builds by saving multiple KB2KD's and turning them into enhancng/set-bonus-granting slots; and 2) removal of the tension between 6th-piece bonuses and a KB2KD proc, which forces tradeoffs, choices and build diversity.
Lol. I'll address them for you:
What you showcased is an example of taking Apocalypse which is a 10% recharge set, and keeping only 2 of its enhancements as a set, and then taking a best-case scenario which forces an awkward build path where you don't receive actually optimal results for your character and would likely make things like perma-hasten more difficult to achieve, or even if you did achieve it, you likely lost efficiency elsewhere in your build in terms of defense or overall damage output via procs in other areas. I honestly have not seen even a single build that actually uses a slotting mechanism remotely similar to this except for one build I made with Thugs/Storm and that was a special case where I just literally did not have actual ranged blast powers I was going to use in an attack chain and needed to split the bonuses to achieve something for a specific task force segment.
The example provided voids an opportunity for 10% recharge, disables slotting of other blast powers effectively, and restricts your build in terms of availability to other opportunities, such is the same as having to use a KB->KD IO in nearly every KB power to actually eek out performance below other regular blast sets to actually have your manipulation secondary play "cover your ass" on a DPS class. Yes, it's a slot-efficiency gain, no one denies that, but arguing it's too powerful is straight up absurd when there's already Seismic which serves as just proof that KD-centric blast sets are balanced and given how starkly similar these powers are in DPA/animations/etc. there's functionally no balance-worthy changes necessary to make it not "too powerful."
Also, by it being optional, you actually increase build diversity by being able to actually slot things efficiently and access manipulation secondaries in a far more enhanced way than you would otherwise whilst still keeping the KB variation if desired, further given this suggestion, you could still choose to keep only a select few KB->KD powers if desired. These aren't removed, you don't decrease diversity, you increase and expand it.
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7 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:
Why not use your influence to buy inspirations either from vendors or the AH?
The problem arises during missions where the AH is unavailable, but you'd like to actually get large inspirations. Yes, you can theoretically email them to yourself, but the email system is still a bit chaotic and there is a risk of accidentally sending the wrong things and/or being limited by email constrictions. I also have several characters and am at the point that influence is entirely meaningless for me now, so I'd actually like to just waste my time/inf/whatever into things that tend to matter at all.
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5 hours ago, kelika2 said:
Explain this then.
While I am pretty sure I know where @Luminara stands in this argument, and likely disagree with the poster, I believe I understand what they're indicating.
They're saying that human beings would know better than to chase mobs around constantly dropping their "efficiency" in favor of trying to relentlessly run after something they should know better that is out of reach. Therefore, the people who are not smart enough to recognize this are of an intellectually inferior species, "cats." They're not talking about teammates actually quitting the TF or recommending actions to take. They're saying people should understand what's going on in a given scenario and stop making dumb decisions.
I just don't agree with the principle that other people should have to put up with other people's bullshit and slow everyone else down in favor of catering to their wants and desires, not needs. There shouldn't be a need to chase enemies around in the first place to as bad of a degree as KB causes is my opinion, and thus likely deserves a form of power auditing or workarounds that help to alleviate the issue where there are currently none.
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5 hours ago, biostem said:
Maybe the set could provide a global reduction in KB strength, which if stacked enough, provides the desired effect, like how other sets provide a small bonus to global recharge or something...
EDIT: To clarify the above, I mean that you'd need multiple of the bonuses to get the full KB->KD effect, and not just a single slotting of the set.
Then it would have to be one hell of a set, and provide some very nice bonuses like 10% recharge and the KB->KD better not be the 6th slot bonus.
The reason for the change is so that sets actually get decent performance that isn't a massive hit akin to having to slot several powers with sudden acceleration and kill most builds out of viability for their performances.
Also, KB magnitudes are not created the same, therefore this is a bit wishful thinking to reduce them all to the point that would properly KD. Implementation-wise I don't see how this works even if it went by percentages like 30% because some would still be over the limit needed to turn KB into KD, and some would even be so low in KB that there would be no effect whatsoever.
I don't see this as an actual solution overall.
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1 hour ago, Luminara said:
Yes, for the experiment, it is well done and I did not fault @Galaxy Brain's numbers. I think it's actually remarkable and very helpful information. The problem has already been stated though that the reason EB has not been doing well is because of gameplay effects associated with the secondary manipulation powersets, and it leads to too drastic of a performance drop once considered.
So when these variables do come into play because every single Blaster has access to a manipulation secondary, the results are far different. You'd see Fire Blast shoot up the ranks along with Psychic Blast because Fire Manipulation provides what those were lacking. Energy Blast actively goes against things that would help its DPS and efficiency performances. It demonstrably harms the user to utilize the effect. It is not a net-positive to use the KB on the powers. It is plain fact and there is data literally demonstrating that. If I had to just spitball a guess, it's probably about a 30-50% drop off given how anti-synergistic it is vs the 15% that's displayed.
Edit: Just for humor's sake, I bet it's probably better to just not use Energy Blast as a set AT ALL and only use your secondary manipulation powerset vs mobs until you only have one boss left assuming you kept the KB effects. The only way to seriously improve that efficiency and make your primary set worthwhile to use is to KB->KD many powers and cost so many proc opportunities. It's the reason I do not recommend EB as a set.
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1 hour ago, Galaxy Brain said:
The screenshots here (at the bottom cus mobile) may be a bit out of date, but I have had recordings of certain sets both with and without KB to KD.
For context, these were data sets taken from running my "Mission Sim" AE map to try and isolate primary performance for Scrappers and Blasters. Both were done on SO builds with basic slotting per power (3dam, 1acc/end/rech, etc), with the exception being when I re-ran with KD I also included +Lvl damage IOs to emulate the same exact stats (generally a +3 IO would make up for the loss of a 3rd SO when combined with a lvl 50 SO). Scrapper results below were the averages of 10 runs per set / set variant at 0/3 difficulty. Blasters were the same but at 0/8 in the screenshots.
Of note, for Scrappers I saw Claws and KM speed up by about 11% overall at low difficulty with the only change being Shockwave/Repulsing Torrent knocking down instead of back. This was in an office map without huge target saturation and it still saw a notable average performance increase, even with knocking enemies into corners/etc for best effect.
On the blaster side we see more differences. Energy blast improved by 13%, Archery and Dark by 10%, old sonic by 11%, and AR by 14%. All shaved off nearly a full minute with sometimes minimal slot investment (Archery, Dark, Sonic all needed just 1).
Again, this was in an office map with plenty of walls, corners, doorways, cubicles, stairs, etc to abuse KB with. But between 20 runs total for each of the sets (10 with, 10 without), the KD was always faster to clear.
To me, this shows that KD seems to have more value than KB all other things being equal. A better analogy between the two may be something like an IO that turns a Slow into an Immobilize, or a Stun into a Hold. Both pairs do basically the same thing (limit movement, limit actions), but the method of doing so is better on one side than the other where they get rid of a "downside". Funny enough, all three examples have the downside of the targets moving about either forcefully or slowly via -Speed/Drunk Walk when stunned.
What makes KB controversial is that it is too easy to "troll" with it compared to nearly everything else either intentionally or not. We have all seen or likely been that player who picks up Storm and uses Gale every chance they get. In a team, talking to the person spamming it either leads to them getting better with KB (push them to the wall/corner/towards the tank!), or getting kicked for not coordinating with their team the same as somebody running off and trying to solo away from the group each chance they get and screaming at the team about it. Its not a matter of KB itself but how it is piloted, just like other "troll" tactics. Combine that with how easy it is to misuse and the detrimental effects it can have to the multitude of area specific powers and you have a recipe for frustration from how another player using their powers effects how you play.
That said, the measurable benefit of KD vs KB means I am in the camp that such options should have some form of drawback. It does not need to be harsh, as demonstrated with how I was able to get the same stats on the powers with an IO, but still something that players need to work with. If anything, KB should be buffed to have some sort of benefit to not only compete with KD/KU in the meta sense (making it more of a choice) but to also fit the theme. When superheroes get tossed 100ft across the room they definitely seem to be hurt more than if they were just knocked on their butts after all 😉
The only thing to note would be that this seems to test the Blast sets (correct me if I'm wrong) just based on either not that active secondary like Tactical Arrow which won't really vastly improve damage numbers and is also ranged, or almost entirely ignores that part of the conversation.
This is where shit starts to hit the fan for Energy where it becomes almost as bad as AR imo, because when you consider the biggest winner (Fire Blast) has nearly 100% synergy with Fire Manipulation the gap just widens immensely between what Energy can actually combo with without KD enhancements, and where other sets that didn't have to seem "bad" like Psy Blast, Psy Blast ends up doing very well for its ST chain and being able to do considerably better than these results would have you believe when paired with Fire Manipulation.
That is why Psychic Blast/Fire Manipulation is still a popular speedrunning build.
The problem is it's not just Energy Blast's synergy with Fire Manipulation alone, it's any sort of Manipulation set that likes to be in close range gets screwed by the KB sideways.
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Focused Feedback: Blast Power Set Updates
in [Open Beta] Focused Feedback
Posted
Overall I enjoy the changes, but I have to say, I do feel as if some blast sets were in relatively worse spots than the ones chosen.
I really think some of these 2 second not-snipe-but-heavy-hitter powers should get a glance at. Specifically thinking of Energy Blast and Radiation Blast in particular. AR definitely needed it though and I'm glad that it's in a better place.