WindDemon21

Cool, seems odd with how the devs coded that but any little bit helps i guess. Still doesn't change though that they should be giving the extra radius as the AT bonus though, without the extra area factoring into the damage calculations. Still their choice, there isn't some magical overlord making them be forced to calculate it in.

Not prior. Prior the procs were calculated based on the orignal area of the aoes. Gauntlet, was a separate buff that boosted the radius, while proc calculations were still based off the original area of the aoe. So per area, procs were much more effective on big mobs than they are now (50% more so) as per damage, yeah you still want to enhance the actual attack for damage too, but saying for each proc, it would get that extra benefit of more procs in the larger area. Not that what you said about brutes isn't true, but it was extra so for tankers with how they worked before, so it's really a double or triple nerf that tankers got now, and just feels awful. Also, enemies do cluster around you but will also still have a max saturation that they can be in that immediate area (especially think big box enemies like freaks), but the increased radius would still help cones greatly (especially those wider ones) in many situations. Again, this is all regarding that they keep the damage the same like they should, and not recalculate the damage based on the new area, as it should be an AT bonus. And also, man does it really suck to not have the increased radius for extraneous powers like armor aoe powers like dark regeneration and epic aoes, especially for aggro'ing. Really hurt that too.

Yes I knew that part, that's what the actual problem is with them changing the powers themselves instead. Now, if they wanted to take it away from that, because I KNOW they wanted to hurt it for procs specifically, that's fine. But this should still be a special case where it gets a larger radius, without that extra radius factoring into it's damage. It's scary honestly to hear that they planned for WORSE nerfs, but not surprising sadly.. End point being though, they should still increase the cone sizes without changing the damage they do. Edit: And honestly, with the larger radii, or even arc angle on the cones before, tankers were actually FUN because of that, and now they feel just as bad as any other AT with the smaller cones, and really just hurts a lot of the fun 😕

Ok that's the point right there though. They SHOULDN'T decrease the base damage, since it's meant to be a bonus of the AT. Meaning it should be as part of the inherent so it's not affecting the damage. Even though they increased the aoe radius, they SHOULD have still left the damage the same. This is entirely on the deva for screwing that up. They need to just do it properly. Again. You don't lower base damage for scrappers because their inherent gives them more damage. Or blasters for the same reason. Only outlier is brutes because they did it wrong where their base should be higher but fury give less. But they need other things fixed too so that's a other thread.

Right, well see response above about the extra area not factoring into the damage formula since it's an AT bonus. But on the cones, the extra radius on the pbaoes are nice, but i honesty enjoy by AT at least, the larger size on the cones because it makes some sets so much more fun especially with the larger target caps. Now without that, it's almost pointless for the cones to hit more targets because most of them won't ever reach any extras except a very select few cones. I honestly wish, across all ATs, that these powers had more of an adaptive damage/end/rech. So if the cone hit only 2 enemies instead of 5, it would do more damage to those two versus the damage done to each 5 enemies. This would honestly be really nice across the board, but especially for melee cones, and also really help some sets out who are low on single target damage. Just imagine if jacob's ladder, or proton sweep, or even psy blade sweep, did high damage when it would hit just a single target. I think the recharge could not have to be adaptive, but the damage/end would per target hit, and it would make those cones so much nicer. Edit: especially Ripper! Could you imagine how much that would help spines out if ripper was doing 1.5x damage or whatever when hitting only one target. Would really help out spine's poor ST damage. But yeah, these base cones without any boost just feel awful now on tankers 😕

Also just if you missed the response Psy, the increased radius specifically shouldn't have to factor into the damage formula. That's why it made more sense for it to be an outside buff that increased the areas the way it was before (like all other inherent abilities). It was only mostly changed recently to be the powers themselves because the devs hate procs and this lowered the proc chances due to the larger area (which is still stupid, but won't fight on that part). Though the base damage of the power, shouldn't be affected by the increased radius. Hence why it's an AT bonus. You wouldn't lower a scrappers base damage just because they have the ability to crit, or a blasters base damage because their inherent stacks up extra damage bonus. The only odd outlier here are brutes which IMO their base damage should be higher but just lower the buff provided by fury which would make a lot more sense, but talking about tankers here, the aoe increase really should be just a bonus of the AT, it doesn't affect the pbaoe base damage due to the larger area, so it shouldn't have to factor into cones with a larger area on tankers either. Unless i missed that they lowered the damage on those pbaoes due to the larger area, but that was not mentioned anywhere i saw, and i didn't screenshot any values prior to page 28 to verify now either (i know the additonal targets damage was lowered, but that was just to make the extra targets not hurt as much, it wasn't changing the base damage on those powers)

Exactly which is why those powers should have the -kd in them. That's mainly one of the whole reasons they should already have it in them. It's not "too good" or anything if grav/elec have it. It's just how the immobilizes should work. Especially for grav and elec immobs for the reason I mentioned. They should have it, all the others do even if it makes less sense Thematically for those others.

Yeah regarding the st hold tier placement that's all I'm doing. Just saying it should be in the tier 2 spot. This is already done with kb-kd in the sing, so this is for the immobilizes that should have them already anyway for other cases why they have them, more control. Gravity pulling down, and elec causing static to stick you to the ground make a lot more sense to have the -kb in them than say a circle of fire or some fireworks on the ground so they should definitely have the -kb.

I'm not saying lift shouldn't be in the set, but it shouldn't be forced between it and crush. I've made many grav builds where I wish you could skip it cause I'd rather focus on other powers. And you're not slipping the st hold ever anyway, so it's just to open it up so you're not forced to get lift I'd you don't want to. You can still pick it is at level 2

Too much for one thread and that wouldn't make sense, when the other threads already had exactly what they needed on them. That's really not the reason to use down vote. Those are to respond to the actual content of a post. There was nothing wrong with responding to older posts. If you don't like them then just ignore them, but they're all still valid. Edit: I figured as much as well since you seem to be in cahoots with golstat who is doing far worse(or are another acct of his wouldnt surpise me) Again that's not how you use downvote or other reactions. If you think there is an issue with doing what I did (which there isn't) then report the behavior if it's valid to do that, but do not downvote a post of content for that. That's not how that's meant to be used and negatively affects the true reaction to an actual post itself. You can see how otherwise they would see the downvote thinking you're against the content when it had nothing to do with that.

Please @Ghost. explain why the 26 end cost on rain of fire when the other rain powers do more but only cost 15 end makes sense. (And no it does nowhere near more damage to account for that, that's literally nuke level end cost)

That would be something to look into (though still not ideal, those first two hits are literally just nimble slash so just cast it before if you want it to look the same), but base issue still existing of its recharge needing to go up, and it's damage would have to go up even further than I suggested to match the longer animation time.

It is much better now, but still doesn't change that the st hold should be the available option for tier 2 so you can pick it out of the gate and skip the others if you want to like all other control sets.

You missed the idea. I'm not talking little Beams. I'm talking big blasts. It is for energy blast after all. The actual projectiles would remain the same. This is just mainly changing how they come out of the body, or rather eyes.

This fix wouldn't improve the st damage at all actually. It would just make the power actually worth taking and using. It'd still be middle of the road dpa after the specifications i gave (yes it really is that bad lol). But the main intent is to make it useful for an actual combo that uses it without seriously debilitating your damage, and make it actually worth using for lower st dps, but to actually be able to use its knockdown for survival against a single target without SUCH a serious dps loss by using it versus attack vitals.