WindDemon21

Nah that would be a LARGE margin of the power getting significantly weaker to being pretty much useless unless you max slot it with only /mez Hamis to max its stats for it to ever work properly in the later game if that was the case. I'm pretty sure it has to be a bug because that's way too specific and late game use for the power otherwise it wouldn't make sense.

As the title suggests, it's being affected by the purple patch which it shouldn't be, which pretty much invalidates the power and requires mez slotting (to which you have to wait till 47 for for hamis, why we need universal mez IO sets for earlier levels) just to keep it at the same or slightly higher mag. This should not be the case. Clearly the bug lies in the "enhancements increase mag of the power not duration", but i'd assume it's still a bug and not intended nonetheless as it basically forces the power to be max enhanced against higher level foes just to keep it doing anything.

Easier, not better. Better because they're easier, sure. We're arguing semantics there. I stated earlier in the thread that it was better due to that, but the actual values would still be the same (granted further convos with devs if nerfs are needed or not to do so)

I get that line of thinking, but that doesn't mean it's right, or at the very least has to mean that. Ultimately it would be up to the devs on the final decision, but this is to bring up HAVING it fixed to do so without any nerfing needed, as it's still largely a QoL upgrade. If the devs want to chime in on where that stands, then we can start an actual conversation about it and if it's worth it. Many would like to see them placeable on both ally and enemies alike. So it's not hurting to try to get that to happen, rather than turning it down BEFORE it even gets to the stage of what the devs would allow. Pre-assuming something has to be nerfed (again, when it's a QoL thing not actually affecting the power values themselves), is a really really weird way of thinking. Being AWARE that it might be a tradeoff is one thing, saying no before the devs even chime in, is another really, really weird thing.

They're not stronger though. They are just being changed what targets they can be placed on, ie QOL

As I said that would be a other thread. Determinations about radii if the debuff value would go down it's possible/likely which is why I said it would be a other thread. This one is specifically just to have them be placeable on both for all debuff toggles. This was never about everything you just said. And also, the rad debuffs are not balanced by being faster to use (nor really cheaper either, .52/s is a big cost and is factored because there are two of them). You forget they were made when the cast times were much longer before and then were turned down. For some odd reasons as well, we were strictly told that cast times do not factor into the balance of a power. So again, this is only about placing debuff toggles on both enemies and allies, to which no, they would not have to be nerfed in order to do so. To think they would have to be for what is a QoL thing is just weird and wrong.

You say advantage. And while yes it is, that's the entire purpose, but it's still a QOL change. That radius isn't 15 ft because of it being placeable on an ally, it's 15ft, well because the devs originally just decided that, but if anything because of what it does. Look at rad debuffs, while I'll argue they should be wider for sure, they are also only 15ft as well, but are currently placeable on enemies only at the moment. Bottom line, it's still a QOL issue for the most part. There is no reason this can't be done, and it shouldn't have to have them nerfed in any way just for that. If YOU think they do, well that's weird, really weird, but that doesn't mean they HAVE to be by any means. They are entirely capable to be workable on both without being adjusted in any way. Same thing goes for increasing their radius to 25ft, but that would be another discussion/thread.

Nobody said anything about the radii being nerfed. I actually said they should all be increased to 25ft. As to your intent, then you can't really explain sonic Disruption then either, and that works just fine as it is. It's just a QOL fix, it doesnt change how the power affects the targets, just where the toggle is placed.There doesn't need to be much more thought into it beyond that.

Sounded like you were saying that if they were placed on the tank, the tank would end up being debuffed by the debuff instead of the enemies, but that's not true because it already works with Disruption Aura without any issues. Add some -damage and it's just like enervating field. So no reason it can't work for those and others too and be flagged to work for both.

Except you're completely wrong. This code already exists in game and works perfectly fine for that via sonic disruption. So there is no issue with the coding of how to do that.

They definitely wouldn't have to do that. It's a QoL change, not a stat change. That would only be done if they would appropriately fix the radii to be 25ft like darkest night's, but not just being able to cast it on an ally, that's QoL.

Yeah but that's no different than other toggles, there's really nothing they can do about that with the elevators unless they gave toggles an infinite range before they drop off. Which i guess they could be able to do that but likely wouldn't since it doesn't impact much of the game. Being able to place toggles on both allies and enemies though, would make a much nicer improvement and QoL for those types of powers. Even ally toggles like sonic repulsion, when solo, being able to use that on the enemy mobs would be a helpful addition, obviously also for enemy toggles being able to place on your own pet on a controller or a melee type would also be the main intent.

So basically what buffs already are. Not a good enough argument. Plus you still have to manage the end cost which would now be 100% of the time with no downtime, can run the risk of the teammate or pet moving out of the area, and will still get suppressed when mezzed. The entire point is for it to be more beneficial/set and forget like buffs, but they still have all the same drawbacks they did before, only now with more end cost to compensate for the better ease of use.

Except this is wholly wrong in actual practice. Glittering, the taunt/ku only lasts a few seconds and doesn't stop attacking besides the short ku and some -to hit (dont get me wrong i love the power but it's far from a full control), meaning vulnerabilities to aoe attacks or If your teammate has their own taunt aura that will supercede it they'll still be attacked. The cone sleep only lasts a few seconds of deep sleep before they wake up (edit and it's confuse you can't use if you want to hit the whole mob with the sleep really due to the cone size/shape so that is a nice addition but only really matters when the mob is down to just a few enemies). The aoe hold (that fyi is target based not location based) isn't up often enough and THAT should be the power you're reserving for those "oh sh!t" moments, aoe immobilize is standard and useful but doesn't prevent retaliation and takes longer to work because of the chain nature versus a regular taoe. And then there's brilliant barrage. You can NEVER guarantee that it will control a whole mob, since you can't control what gets the stun and what gets the fear, which still doesn't change that it's stats are off in it's current form where it's recharge should be 60s being half fear, but anyway, at BEST you can do is target one side of the mob, and *try* to place the fear portion on the other side, and just HOPE that rng lucks out so that every one of the 16 targets gets either stunned or feared with no overlap, but in reality that's still impossible (and would still mean a 60s rech). And at every single instance, it still goes far into how wholly unreliable the power is even at that. Again, I'm not saying to take away it's usefulness of having the dual stun and fear in two areas, the issue again, is as it currently is, it's recharge should be 60 seconds since half of it is fear. But even more appropriately, the stun should still be 16 targets, even if the duration was only 2/3 it's current duration and then the fear should really be 16 targets as well, turning it into a "stun full mob now but shorter duration, that turns into a longer lasting fear," or "stun one mob and fear another, but focus first on the stunned mob because the stun won't last as long" but as it currently is, no, the power needs fixed without question in some fashion, even if at thr very least it's just making the recharge 60s which would be proper given its only a half stun, where only full stuns should have the 90s recharge. Fears have 40s recharges. And again, procs don't factor in to a powers base use and stats so that argument is also moot.

This whole thing is invalidated though because you're strictly ignoring the target cap issue at 1/4. Balance wise, the power is still a major fail not doing what it's supposed to do unless they either lower the recharge, or more aptly, increase the target cap for the stun to 16 targets. What you are basically saying, is you're not fighting enough enemies to begin with for it to matter, but that doesn't change thst the power is still ill-performing what it's supposed to do in normal large sized mobs which is the whole issue.