Newbie trying demon/pain

[Enigmaniac]

So due to invitation by a friend I thought I'd try out this game for a first time, and because I enjoy pet builds in games quite a bit I went with a themed build with my first MM.

I'm currently lvl 23(iirc) and I'm utterly getting my ass handed to me, unlike a blaster from similar level who is able to go one on one with something 5 levels higher and tear it down effortlessly. Pets are getting universally one- or twoshotted against anything over yellow or when facing more than 3 mobs in one go, and barely do any dps at all despite slotting for more damage and accuracy. Can't slot them for more health or cooldown, am already using leadership to further try and squeeze out some dps but quite frankly it's not enough by a large margin.

Had I to compare the experience from similar level MM versus blaster, I'd say stopping power is less than 20% of the blaster and I have no tanking capacity to excuse that kind of power difference. No matter how good I spec for heals, I can't heal what gets instagibbed.

Is this the expected result from demons, pain or MM in general? Because as it is I'm just not seeing how the hell I'm supposed to contribute with anything.

[tremor3258]

At least one point versus blasters, at 20 something they have AOE for groups.

Demons has one cone breath at this point so you just don't have the relative tools to drop minions fast. Though as the bad guys get more hold capacity that blaster will need to be more careful and have some less room to maneuver. 

 

The archetype to some degree is built around ablative damage. Pre IOs as CoV opened, MMs were more the Rogue Isles tanking class than brutes were.

 

The good news? At 23 you are near the end of the harshest period for all MM sets. 24 brings the second tier 2 pet, the Gargoyle is tough and has some contact auras to help focus attention.  Probably the most damage focused pet in the powerset.

 

And 26 has the tier 3 which comes with holds and slows which will alleviate pressure.

 

32 is a ways off but I usually feel the big divide. The second powerup tends to be a massive upswing for MM.

[StrikerFox]

I find Pain to be... not great on an MM. It usually doesn't heal enough or frequently enough to keep pets alive. Especially if they're being 1-2 shot to death. If your heart is set on healing, try Demons/Thermal. Demon pet's inherent damage resistance + Ember Demon's dam resist buffs + Thermal's shield buffs makes them very sturdy. This gives Thermal heals a better chance of keeping them alive.

 

You can pick all heals, shields and Ember Demon by level 12. Slot enhancements as soon as possible.

 

Or if you want to stick with Pain, play a tankermind style by building up your MM's defense, take Provoke, set pets to defensive-follow. Having high defense will make your MM hard to hit, Provoke to draw attacks to you, Bodyguard mode to redistribute damage you take across your MM + all pets. You and your pets will take less damage this way and give heals a better chance to keep up. You can get info on Bodyguard mode here:

 

https://cityofheroes.fandom.com/wiki/Mastermind

 

Tankermind is great and can be done early but it really blossoms in late levels when IOs are slotted, the MM's defense is high, and have all 6 pets to share incoming damage with.

 

Pet damage can be fantastic but it takes work and levels to get there. Slotting IOs/procs, incarnates, cracking the whip to apply damage resist debuffs, using Hell on Earth/World of Pain/Anguishing Cry etc. 

Edited January 20, 2020 by StrikerFox

[BGSacho]

On 1/19/2020 at 10:18 PM, Enigmaniac said:

So due to invitation by a friend I thought I'd try out this game for a first time, and because I enjoy pet builds in games quite a bit I went with a themed build with my first MM.

I'm currently lvl 23(iirc) and I'm utterly getting my ass handed to me, unlike a blaster from similar level who is able to go one on one with something 5 levels higher and tear it down effortlessly. Pets are getting universally one- or twoshotted against anything over yellow or when facing more than 3 mobs in one go, and barely do any dps at all despite slotting for more damage and accuracy. Can't slot them for more health or cooldown, am already using leadership to further try and squeeze out some dps but quite frankly it's not enough by a large margin.

Had I to compare the experience from similar level MM versus blaster, I'd say stopping power is less than 20% of the blaster and I have no tanking capacity to excuse that kind of power difference. No matter how good I spec for heals, I can't heal what gets instagibbed.

Is this the expected result from demons, pain or MM in general? Because as it is I'm just not seeing how the hell I'm supposed to contribute with anything.

It sounds like the people you are grouped with are kitted out with IO enhancements, while you're probably going along with the most basic stuff.

Higher level mobs are particularly dangerous to an MM(before we get all our enhancements in place), because the pets take increasingly more damage from them. I recommend sticking to +1 missions max, your pets will have a much easier time surviving even hordes of enemies, compared to a few really high level ones.

This is due to what is called the "Purple Patch"(https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Purple_Patch) - when you are a lower level, you both take more damage and deal significantly less. Your pets are -2/-1 levels below you, making it even worse.

 

I'd echo what the other guys said about pain, but I think the situation can't be that dire. You should be able to do just fine in less extreme circumstances. There's no way a blaster is thriving where your pets are getting gibbed if they have the same enhancements that you do.

From my experience levelling with similarly-geared characters(just using the basic crafted IOs you can get while levelling), MMs are incredibly tanky and produce mid-to-high DPS.
 

Edited January 21, 2020 by BGSacho

[Enigmaniac]

Thought I'd at least let people know I've decided to just try demon/fire; I do quite like the healing and think I'd prefer to go dark/dark dominator instead to get my creep-build out. Can't really claim I prefer it yet as it's still early game, but does feel smoother so far. Thanks for the advice thusfar and perhaps in time when I actually read in on what IO's even are I'll appreciate it even more. xD