powerset suggestion Doppelgängers

[dbri]

Doppelgängers

 

Basic Idea: A mastermind primary set that summons clones of enemies hit by its attacks.

 

How it may work:

• The powerset contains 3 summon powers: Minion Doppelganger, Lieutenant Doppelganger, and Boss Doppelganger.
• Unlike other MM sets, these summon powers are ranged Single Target attacks.
• When these powers hit an enemy of the valid type, a doppelganger of that enemy will be summoned at the player's side as a pet. The power also stores the enemy's info for later.
• If these powers are used without an enemy target selected, they will instead use stored enemy info to summon a doppelganger pet but at a higher endurance cost.
• Doppelgangers have the same powers and appearance of the enemy they were cloned from but have their levels adjusted relative to the player's combat level.  (-2 for minions, -1 for lts)
• If the enemy hit cannot be adjusted down to the appropriate level then a pet is not created and enemy info is not stored. This also applies to stored enemy info. This is to prevent low level or exemplared MMs from using high level pets that can't drop down to their level.
• The player can have up to 3 Minions, 2 Lieutenants, and 1 Boss depending on level like other MM sets.
• Summoning a new doppelganger will replace the oldest of the same type if already at maximum for that type.
• Minion Doppelganger has 3 different slots for storing enemy info while Lieutenant Doppelganger has 2. This is for storing a variety of different enemies to these powers. Boss only has 1.
• Each use of these powers will cycle through their slots one at a time. If on slot 1 when used, Minion Doppelganger will only summon or replace the enemy info of slot 1 then step to slot 2 for the next use.
• Doppelgangers will spawn behind the player without needing a target location, similar to the way Energy Font pets are summoned from the Controller's Overpowering Presence ATO.

 

What about the other powers?

The attack powers could be magic ranged attacks that use the Dark Blast or Energy Blast animations, something that would appear fitting in most factions for theme builds. The Equip powers would not grant new powers but instead be generic and permanent buffs to base stats for the doppelgangers, such as increased HP.

 

Custom AE enemies?

If the enemy storing system works then this could be an alternate way to have custom MM pets. Create your pets as enemies in AE, run a test mission, then store their enemy info by attacking them with the appropriate powers. This would also save the need to create a new costume/ability editor just for custom pets. Because of custom powers, AE pets will no doubt be broken and overpowered without limitations in place. Perhaps a filter could be added to prevent the use of AE enemies if their Experience Value is over 100% for the MM's combat level. This unfortunately may require frequent adjustments to the custom enemies when sidekicking or exemplaring.

 

Will it be overpowered anyways?
Yes. Somebody will inevitably find a really good combination of enemies to clone but I don't think it'll make the game less fun. It will be really entertaining to see what doppelganger teams people will come up with, or themed teams such as all Longbow or Family. There are also some really interesting enemies out there to consider like healers, enemies with summons of their own like Sky Raider Engineers, enemies that have on-death mechanics, or the Possessed Scientists that can cast Fortitude on allies.

 

The game Path of Exile has a spell with a similar functionality called Summon Spectre, which summons a clone of a nearby dead enemy to fight by your side. These clones are stored to the ability like I described above so you can re-summon them if you disconnect or change zones. People have found really good and almost game-breaking combinations of spectres to use. It's quite fun to experiment with.

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by dbri

[MTeague]

Well, you're up-front about the "Will this be Overpowered" question.  Points for honesty there.

I would say this would have to dismiss pets and clear pets if you stop being sidekicked at anytime.

 

Otherwise I can be a lvl 1, hop into somoene else's lvl 50 mission, and grab a Malta Zues, Malta Gunslingers, and Malta Sappers, keep them "saved", then quit out and go back to Atlas Park.... and make my own personal Malta crew for levelling from 1-50?

That's INSANELY overpowered.

 

You should not be able to "store" enemies who's minimum level to appear exceeds your own combat level by more an a few levels.

Any stored enemny should not be able to use any attack OR defense power that exceeds your own combat level by more than few levels.

 

And I realllly don't like the idea of being able to store custom enemies in AE.

 

If you only captured the enemies APPEARANCE?  I'd be much more willing to talk turkey.

If you're capturing an exact clone with access to all the same powers as the mob you're cloning?  No way. This is INSANELY overpowered.

Say I create custom pets who THEMSELVES are masterminds.  My 3 T1 pets now all summon thier OWN pets?  Some limitations are needed here.

[dbri]

26 minutes ago, MTeague said:

Otherwise I can be a lvl 1, hop into somoene else's lvl 50 mission, and grab a Malta Zues, Malta Gunslingers, and Malta Sappers, keep them "saved", then quit out and go back to Atlas Park.... and make my own personal Malta crew for levelling from 1-50?

That's INSANELY overpowered.

That's why I specified this rule:

• If the enemy hit cannot be adjusted down to the appropriate level then a pet is not created and enemy info is not stored. This also applies to stored enemy info. This is to prevent low level or exemplared MMs from using high level pets that can't drop down to their level.

I checked and Malta have a minimum level of 41 (according to AE) so a MM below that cannot clone them or use a Malta enemy's info to create doppelganger pets.

 

A full Malta team would be really fun to have though while leveling through your 40s.

 

Edit:

I just considered a few things about what you said about T1s with their own T1s. As hilarious as that sounds (that alone is 12 pets) those pets would be garbage. T1's operate at a -2 combat level to their MM, so their T1's would be at another -2 modifier, so they'd be at a -4!! That's pretty bad. I can't imagine lvl 46 wolves doing anything against monsters in a 50+4 mission, even if there's 9 of them. Also keep in mind that AE MMs do not have access to Equip powers.

 

However, a ban rule for AEs with MM pools may be necessary just for server stability and for the sake of teammates in cave missions.

Edited April 28, 2020 by dbri

[MTeague]

Fair point.  I missed the "not stored" rule when skimming your list above.  As long as that's covered by something like that.

 

AE custom enemies could still be created going down to lvl 1 though, .... I admit, I'm fuzzy if you could give them the exact same attacks.... I don't do a whole lot with AE mission creation / custom enemies myself. But would want to make sure that wasn't a back door to gve yourself a squad of Illusion Controlelrs, or a squad of Fire Controllers until you have 15 imps from all your T1 pets and T2 pets, flooding the area, or .... I'm sure some wild and crazy combos can be made. 

 

I mean, I like the idea in principle.  It's just I also understand MM's are currently fixed sets only because that makes them far more controllable and balance-able.

[Nanolathe]

4 hours ago, dbri said:

 The power also stores the enemy's info for later.

I am not certain of course. I don't have any insider knowledge on the code. But I don't think this is actually possible as presented, within the confines of the CoH engine. While an interesting idea, it may be technologically very difficult, if not actually impossible to hack into the system we have. Especially on log-out. There are a lot of odd engine quirks that are seemingly impossible to get working. Allegedly, "math" stored and manipulated by the character avatar on the fly, is one of them, which is why we can't have a reflect damage effects for example. 

 

I'm not someone learn-ed in the code, but Doppelgangers that you can "keep"... even between zones and mission doors is something I'm not sure is possible. The MM already re-summons new versions of the pets under their command each time you go through a loading zone, re-equiping them with their upgrades, but voiding all other buffs, like shields or similar. You may have seen the upgrade animations playing every time you go through a loading screen, and seen the pile of dead pets when a MM on your team zones ahead of you, and then seen them reapplying their pet's buffs when you enter the mission.

 

I don't mean to rain on your parade, really... but this just might not be feasible.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Nanolathe

[dbri]

22 hours ago, Nanolathe said:

I am not certain of course. I don't have any insider knowledge on the code. But I don't think this is actually possible as presented, within the confines of the CoH engine. While an interesting idea, it may be technologically very difficult, if not actually impossible to hack into the system we have. Especially on log-out. There are a lot of odd engine quirks that are seemingly impossible to get working. Allegedly, "math" stored and manipulated by the character avatar on the fly, is one of them, which is why we can't have a reflect damage effects for example. 

 

I'm not someone learn-ed in the code, but Doppelgangers that you can "keep"... even between zones and mission doors is something I'm not sure is possible. The MM already re-summons new versions of the pets under their command each time you go through a loading zone, re-equiping them with their upgrades, but voiding all other buffs, like shields or similar. You may have seen the upgrade animations playing every time you go through a loading screen, and seen the pile of dead pets when a MM on your team zones ahead of you, and then seen them reapplying their pet's buffs when you enter the mission.

 

I don't mean to rain on your parade, really... but this just might not be feasible.

Storing enemy info is definitely the most "iffy" part of the whole concept. I don't know the code either but I think it would be worth looking into. There are many variables, both server and local, tied to each character (name, costumes, power selection, enhancements, badges, friends, macros, ui, etc.) so there is bound to be ways to store this information.

 

Heck, you could likely save your cloned minions locally as .critter files like AE does. Hit enemy > create or overwrite .critter file based on hit enemy > spawn pet based on .critter file.