Illusion/Storm Help

[Brand Echh]

Hello!

I'm doing my first Illusion/Storm controller and I'm honestly at a loss of how to squeeze out that extra bit of recharge to get my PA to perma. With the FF procs it is perma, but I figure I shouldn't rely on those.

I do want to keep the Sorcery Power Pool, but I don't necessarily need every power from it.

If someone is able to help a bit with refining this build, I'd truly appreciate the help. I'm not married to Fire Mastery as an epic, if something would solve the issues I'm facing.

Thank you!

Edit: Attached is the build, as I can't seem to get the Export Function to work on Mids. Maybe one of you has a solution.

 

Controller (Illusion Control - Storm Summoning).mbd

Edited January 8 by Nomad Trash

[Psyonico]

Looks like you forgot to attach your build.

 

I've got an Ill/Storm/Leviathan that has perma-PA without any Force Feedback procs, so I know it's possible.

 

On my phone now, happy to post my build later if you want a look at it.

[Brand Echh]

33 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

Looks like you forgot to attach your build.

 

I've got an Ill/Storm/Leviathan that has perma-PA without any Force Feedback procs, so I know it's possible.

 

On my phone now, happy to post my build later if you want a look at it.

I'd love to see it! My build should be attached though. I did edit the post to attach it so you may have seen it before the edit went through.

[Psyonico]

You left a lot of recharge on the table because of proc bombing, here's a build that is technically perma before alpha, though you really need either spiritual or agility alpha slotted to get it effectively perma.  I've also attached my Ill/Storm/Leviathan, again, it really needs Spiritual Alpha to be effectively perma

Controller (Illusion Control - Storm Summoning).mbd Havoc Crier - Controller (Illusion Control).mbd

[Wimbochismo]

You've got all the basics squeezed into your build, I think you just needed some refining and more LotG mules. I took your build and only made a few quick changes. Since you're going the ranged defense, perma Hasten route I emphasized that a bit more and cleaned up your endurance management.

 

This build already has a lot going on with getting perma PA and Storm's high uptime demands. Some reasoning for my cuts/changes:

• Enflame is kind of just an end drain on top of Storm's prohibitive end and isn't totally amazeballs. Dropped it.
• Spirit Ward vs O2 Boost vs Gale. I like having the Prev Med absorb proc so I prefer a heal. O2 boost gives mez resistance.
• I rarely like taking the long cooldown aoe Hold, it's barely ever up, but can if you want it.
• You really needed your toggles slotted for resistance/defense/endurance.
• Don't forget to add two +5 recharges to Hasten to max its recharge.
• Getting those 5 LotG's helps a ton.
• Freezing Rain/rains don't proc very well. You mainly want it for double stacking the -res effect.

With this you have 2.6s off of perma Hasten and 5.5s off perma PA. One shot of FF proc should be enough to perma you in combat. Ranged defense at 42% now.

 

What I'd like to see, or area's for further optimization:

• Steamy Mist also slotted for resistances.
• Spectral Terror for -tohit.
• A slight bit more accuracy, Blind is the lowest at 86% accuracy against +3's. Otherwise it's just solid enough.

From here you should have a more solid base to make whatever additional changes you need.

Controller (Illusion Control - Storm Summoning).mbd

Edited January 9 by Wimbochismo
spelling

[Brand Echh]

Thank you both for the advice! This is the first build I've tried to put together since Live, so I greatly appreciate it.

 

2 hours ago, Wimbochismo said:

Since you're going the ranged defense, perma Hasten route I emphasized that a bit more and cleaned up your endurance management.

One thing I want to ask -- I was building with Ranged Softcap in mind, however...is that even necessary with Perma-PA? Since they tank the hits, mostly.

[Wimbochismo]

7 hours ago, Brand Echh said:

Thank you both for the advice! This is the first build I've tried to put together since Live, so I greatly appreciate it.

 

One thing I want to ask -- I was building with Ranged Softcap in mind, however...is that even necessary with Perma-PA? Since they tank the hits, mostly.

 

It depends on if you're solo/group or fighting AV's specifically etc. 

 

If you're solo or fighting AV's then it becomes more important to have perfectly perma PA and defense may matter less. Even then, with the knockdowns and other tools Storm provides, it's not terrible to be off perma or have less defense.

 

If you're doing harder content and trying to be self sufficient, it's generally a good idea to have some defense. If there is a gap in PA tanking or if you just take some hits in group chaos it's nice to have a buffer. Otherwise you get into the defense vs resist/mes resist debate. Both have their pros and cons. I'd play with it as you go and see what works best for your playstyle as you enter final build tweaking.

[Brand Echh]

So, now that I'm 50 and working on Incarnate stuff, I'm trying to incorporate the advice I got from both of you. It's very hard getting the Perma-PA and Softcapped defense together, so I can see how this is a heck of a tight build.

I'm considering dropping sorcery altogether and just using regular Flight. I think I might have to do that.

[Brand Echh]

So, taking advice from both @Wimbochismo and @Psyonico this is what I've come up with for a build. Please, I welcome ANY and all critiques. I'd love to get perma Phantom Army without needing the Alpha Slot. With this, I'm able to solo +4/x8 Arachnos/Malta/Carnies so far, but I feel it could be better.

Also, I'm not sure how to copy/paste builds here anymore. I can only attach them.



 

NewIllusion.mbd

[Psyonico]

I don't think you're going to get any more recharge out of it than the couple of small changes I made... at least without losing defense.

 

The big thing that I saw is that your Ragnarok in Psi tornado past the "rule of 5" meaning it wasn't giving you a bonus, so I switched that to a Positron's Blast.  I also moved a few slots (don't need the KB->KD in Psi tornado, it does knock up, so the io doesn't do anything) and got the cherished  8.75% global recharge bonus out of O2 boost.  With those two changes, you're down to ~59 seconds without Alpha slot.  Note that this is *NOT* technically permanent, because of cast time.

NewIllusion.mbd

[Onlyasandwich]

I'd consider living on the edge and ignoring defense. What are your controls for, after all? Illusion is especially well suited to this with permanent pa. 

 

You'll then be much more free to juice recharge and squeeze procs into every corner. You can still layer some solid resists with this shift in focus. Defense takes more dedicated slotting. 

Edited January 17 by Onlyasandwich

[Brand Echh]

17 hours ago, Onlyasandwich said:

I'd consider living on the edge and ignoring defense. What are your controls for, after all? Illusion is especially well suited to this with permanent pa. 

 

You'll then be much more free to juice recharge and squeeze procs into every corner. You can still layer some solid resists with this shift in focus. Defense takes more dedicated slotting. 

I had worked towards that, at first, but I noticed that the ranged defense HAS come in handy, even with my PA being up at all times. I was doing the Bane Spider Rescue hero morality at +4/x8 and there were a few times that the mobs were so large that they attacked me for a moment and that defense saved me.

[Onlyasandwich]

3 hours ago, Brand Echh said:

defense saved me.

 

It is certainly useful!

 

On most of my builds these days, I find building towards defense softcap a bit too limiting. It is still a very good and valid build focus, however.

 

If you get adds, there are other strategies, especially with storm:

• Reserve backup controls like thunder clap and flash to pop on incoming.
• Mega spam your storm powers (Tornado, LS, Freezing Rain) so you have constant elements disrupting mobs, regardless of what is currently active.
• Hurricane chaos. Pop Hurricane and start running in circles, tagging everything in sight. Let your summons/pseudopets handle the damage and cleanup. As long as you resummon, you'll find they chew things down over time when you are going wild with hurricane.

[Argentae]

On 1/8/2024 at 6:35 PM, Psyonico said:

You left a lot of recharge on the table because of proc bombing, here's a build that is technically perma before alpha, though you really need either spiritual or agility alpha slotted to get it effectively perma.  I've also attached my Ill/Storm/Leviathan, again, it really needs Spiritual Alpha to be effectively perma

Controller (Illusion Control - Storm Summoning).mbd 43.3 kB · 24 downloads Havoc Crier - Controller (Illusion Control).mbd 45.1 kB · 18 downloads

After playing Illusion/Dark for a bit I'm thinking more and more about Illusion/Storm. 

Seems like a really good pairing.

 

Psyonico, 
I pulled up your Havok Crier build, as I kind of agree that Waterspout is just a natural fit. I really like the build. 🙂

Kneejerk reaction, I wanted to proc out Blind for more ST damage that I control directly, but that's not compatible with Spiritual Alpha. Took me a sec, but I see the point.

One question I had with Waterspout slotting though: You have a Sudden Accel KB -> KD. Waterspout doesn't really need it in my experience, as it just does knock up? Am I missing something like I almost did on Blind?

I'm not an Illusion specialist, and haven't really played with Group Invis. I love the non-suppressing nature of Superior Invis, does Group Invis do the same?

 

Anyway, the idea of Illusion/Storm is growing on me, appreciate all the recent discussion about it! 

[Psyonico]

RE: water spout... I've never tried it without the kb->is.  I believe in game it says knock back, but looking at CoD it is clearly knock up.  I'll have to try the build without the io and make sure.

 

Hmm, now what can I do with the extra slot? I'm on my phone now, so can't see the build to decide.

 

Perhaps the soulbound chance for build up in phantom army

[Argentae]

🙂

it’s like a tiny little Christmas when you suddenly have an extra slot in a super tight build! 
 

What do you think of swapping Gale out for O2 Boost to hold Pev Med +absorb? Do you use Gale at all? Not sure if it’s useful or not, maybe as a quick counter to Pet KB effects.  I’m guessing not that, as you have KB - KD slotted to prevent most of Pet KB.

 

And of course casting Lightning Storm up high helps there if needed. I often use it to help watch my back for the odd boss that hovers at the edge of Hurricane (if it’s running).
 

Endurance use is the main thing I would worry about. So many pet/pseudo pet summons with all that recharge. I assume the +5 End from Atlas is a must… 
 

 

 

 

Edited January 19 by Argentae
Typo

[Psyonico]

Since I'll have to respec to move the slot, I probably will go O2 boost for the absorb proc.  It has saved a few toons multiple times.