Expand Praetoria’s Level Bands

[Chris24601]

This is pretty self-explanatory. Even with the slight bump in level bands Homecoming added, you still have to turn off your XP bar to run more than one faction’s arc set (i.e. Warden, Crusader, Loyalty or Power) and possibly even during that single arc if you end up with any significant patrol XP in the process without out-leveling the ending moral choice.

 

True story; I ran as a Warden, got a full boat of patrol XP due to Altitis and when I came back that was enough to ding me up to 11 before I got Dr. Arvin’s moral choice mission… which, because it’s a separate arc, meant I had out leveled and could only come back after leaving Praetoria to unlock Oroboros.

 

The same happens in Imperial. You come in with a quarter of one bar of XP into level 10, run just the Warden arcs and if I had had any patrol XP going in I would have out-leveled Seer 1381’s moral choice too.

 

I really started to notice the issue after the change to the exploration badges adding proportional patrol XP rather than fixed (and tiny after you have a few levels under you) regular XP and how many exploration badges in Praetoria you can run into without even trying.

 

So, I’d like to suggest the level bands be expanded enough that a single-faction run through won’t need to disable earning XP just to actually finish out a single arc.

 

Say… Nova 1-12, Imperial 8-18, Neutropolis 14-24 (keep the exit missions at 20 for those who do get it without out leveling things) would probably do it.

 

You’d still need to turn off XP to run multiple arcs, but this suggestion is more to smooth things out for normal players than making completionist runs the standard.

 

It also means you don’t have to adjust First/Night Ward levels since First Ward already runs up through level 29.

 

Anyway, that’s my suggestion.

[Kakuyon]

I think this would be a great idea but I still don't think it solves the overall problem that you lose contacts because you leveled up to much... it feels like a punishment for playing the game, contacts(Especially story arc's) shouldn't have level cut off's... i mean when you enter mission zones it scales to your level anyway(at least from my experience I think), I keep having this problem with all of my praetorian's but it honestly doesn't seem like anybody really cares, the advice I always get is just "shoulda turned your XP off" or "just go to Oroboros".... I mean yea I guess I could go to Oroboros but then I lose out on being a resistance or loyalist and can't go back... and more so the immersion of going through the story itself, and again and people always argue this it seems, but turning off your experience "Is a punishment"... I'm stopping myself from gaining new powers or increasing my slots simply just so I don't get kicked out of honestly one of my favorite zones, oh and the kicker of if you're trying to follow a path but get sidetracked because you wanna play double agent cuz you think it might be fun to only come back and find you locked yourself out of the path cuz the quest giver was removed because of what happened in the last story arc you sidetracked on without looking it up... that's really bitten me in the butt recently and I really don't wanna start it all over again since I spent two days gaining "no exp" just to follow the traitor stories and well... it didn't feel like I was having as much fun as when I was gaining new powers when I was leveling, Powers that would have helped in certain missions when they have a lot of strong enemies. I mostly played solo and now that contact's mission I was hoping to do isn't even showing up in the Pillar thingy(my attempts at a Praetorian solution since I refuse to leave praetoria just because I can't access Oroboros), tho I have never used the pillar before, I can see the missions I've completed, but not sure how to make him appear cuz he ain't in the world no more and I can't  even start it(Dr . Steffard btw).

It's not just Praetoria tho, Rouge isles and Paragon can be like that too... you're playing along and suddenly you're cut off halfway and told "move onto the next zone now champ, nothing else for ya here bucko" but... my badges? my enchantments and cool temp powers? my immersion and completionist self?!... it sucks.

Bumping could be nice, or just getting rid of the level cap for contacts... not the level requirement, or even giving Praetorians access to Oroboros would be nice... but i know it's asking a lot of this beautiful but old game, the fact she's still kicking around is a miracle all on it's own, and to have a huge community it still has is saying what a mistake the original owners made when they first shut 'er down, I know I rambled a bit here, especially in an old post from June so not expecting any feedback, just agreeing something should be changed tho again know it's asking a lot.

Praetorians are People/Robots/Aliens/Mutants/and so on too!

[Rudra]

33 minutes ago, Kakuyon said:

. i mean when you enter mission zones it scales to your level anyway(at least from my experience I think),

Zones don't scale to your level. Neither do mission maps. Contacts give missions at your level as long as you are in their level range. As long as you are a valid level for the contact, the mission will be at a valid level for you. Once you out-level a contact though, even if you have a mission from them, the mission will not scale up to your level. If you simply level up but are within the contact's range and you already have a mission from the contact, the mission is still a lower level than your new level even if you have not started the mission yet despite having it.

 

33 minutes ago, Kakuyon said:

but turning off your experience "Is a punishment"...

Turning off xp is not a punishment and I am sorry you feel that it is. In order to do more content than the game is set to give you for your side, you will need to turn off xp to stay in range. At the really low levels, you may need to turn off xp to not out-level your contact simply because HC gives more xp than Live did. And in Praetoria, since the mobs are more difficult than in blue side or red side, you run into an even higher xp reward which exacerbates the concern. So turning off xp isn't a punishment, it is a tool to be able to do more content in a given level range than would normally be possible.

 

33 minutes ago, Kakuyon said:

I mostly played solo and now that contact's mission I was hoping to do isn't even showing up in the Pillar thingy(my attempts at a Praetorian solution since I refuse to leave praetoria just because I can't access Oroboros), tho I have never used the pillar before, I can see the missions I've completed, but not sure how to make him appear cuz he ain't in the world no more and I can't  even start it(Dr . Steffard btw).

If you have a personal base, you can place a Crystal of Fire and Ice in your base and access Ouroboros functionality even without going to Ouroboros as long as your character is at least level 15. Dr. Steffard's arc is in the 15-19 range in the crystal (because his max level for content is 15, not 14) as the "Self Restraint (Imperial Warden Ch. 3" entry.

 

Edited November 24 by Rudra
Edited to correct "Restrain" to "Restraint". And again to correct "in your level range" to "at your level".

[Chris24601]

5 hours ago, Rudra said:

 So turning off xp isn't a punishment

Not a punishment perhaps, but it should also not be required to turn it off just to not out level the moral choice at the end of a normal single faction playthrough just because you accidentally got too much patrol XP.

Which, as a reminder, is the ask… smooth out the level bands enough that you don’t have to resort to turning off XP just to do a complete single faction playthrough.

 

You’ll also note I don’t think it takes a radical shift. 1-12 for Nova, 8-18 for Imp and 14-24 for Neutropolis. Keep the exit missions at 20.

[Chris24601]

Ask aside, the main reason for contact level bands is that, with certain exceptions, most of the mob groups are themselves level locked and built for certain levels in both the number and choice of powers.

 

Even with scaling hp and damage, no mob with just a pistol and punch attack like the starter Hellions and Skulls have would be threat to a character in their mid-20s.

 

That’s why villain groups that have a long time presence have different mobs in different level bands.

 

One reason the Praetorian mobs hit so hard in the early game is they’re built to with all the powers they’d need to be a challenge all the way up to level 24, but you’re facing them with a single digit level tool kit.

 

Now, with that in mind, I could see an argument for expanding certain contact level bands… to the max level of the mobs they send you against.

 

Ex. Clockwork can spawn at up to level 20, so let the early contacts that deal with the Clockwork give out their missions until you reach level 20. Vanilla Banished Pantheon* spawns from 21-29 so let the contacts handing out missions for them do so through level 29, etc.
 

* while they have no current missions in the 30-39 range, the BP do pop up again in 40+ content so, if such an approach for contacts were done, it might be worth building some intermediary BP mobs to fill that range as a sort of lead up to the BP ultimately supplanting even the Circle of Thorns (whose story arcs end with your defeat of the Envoy of Shadows pre-level 40.

[Rudra]

4 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

Not a punishment perhaps, but it should also not be required to turn it off just to not out level the moral choice at the end of a normal single faction playthrough just because you accidentally got too much patrol XP.

Which, as a reminder, is the ask… smooth out the level bands enough that you don’t have to resort to turning off XP just to do a complete single faction playthrough.

 

You’ll also note I don’t think it takes a radical shift. 1-12 for Nova, 8-18 for Imp and 14-24 for Neutropolis. Keep the exit missions at 20.

My response was specifically to the person I quoted. That person was complaining that they were not able to do all of both the Loyalist and Resistance arcs without turning off xp. That is akin to complaining that you have to turn off xp to do all hero and villain content in a given range. If that person's version of the request existed, then players would have to do both sides or farm to level up through the level ranges.

[Kakuyon]

5 hours ago, Rudra said:

My response was specifically to the person I quoted. That person was complaining that they were not able to do all of both the Loyalist and Resistance arcs without turning off xp. That is akin to complaining that you have to turn off xp to do all hero and villain content in a given range. If that person's version of the request existed, then players would have to do both sides or farm to level up through the level ranges.

Hi yea I'm that "Complaining" guy and that was my first post on the forum and you proved my point exactly, you didn't actually read what I said, you immediately jumped on defending your bias's... especially when I mentioned the experience issue, but it really doesn't matter, you said that the contact missions zones arn't scaled to your level, I learned something cool because of that so thank you, but I only thought that it scaled because I can ONLY do missions at my level and in the level enemies were always either same or a couple levels higher/lower then me and usually when I out level my contact but I'm in the middle of a mission it just cuts the mission line... like mongoose's on mercy island or tunnel rat when needing to be introduced to Arvin, thus why it felt like that.... but my point was it should scale to it... since each mission that makes you enter a building or cave or whatever is an instance zone, separate from the main map, and to remove the contacts level cap just so you can at least complete their mission line, but again... you didn't care to think of that especially since this is a "suggestion board" simply you said what it already is and denied my suggestion outright.... simply because I stated... once again "HAVING TO GIMP YOUR EXPERIENCE GAIN JUST TO PLAY MISSION TO MISSION IS A PUNISHMENT", You're somebody I guarantee that probably hops into xp farming groups and generally don't care about the stories or the lore of the game, which is fine I'm not judging you even if you arn't that person, everyone has different ways to play the game. And I'm not trying to deny your opinion if you feel it's not a punishment, it just feels like an unnecessary step that the player has to take if they want to enjoy the world they're exploring and story's their playing, it's not even for doing all of the missions... the OP is saying how even following ONE story line can end up with you out leveling the contact unable to complete the morality mission because of the restrictions, and I've had that happen to me before(Twice in Nova, once in Imperial, 3 times on mercy). and I agreed with their suggestion of even bumping as an option for players to at least finish one line of the story, again tho it doesn't seem like you cared what I said and immediately had to defend your bias.

And to answer the last thing in the first post you quoted, That's exactly what I thought to try and do but his mission isn't appearing in the list on the stone because I wasn't able to "START" it... at least I think so... I have stars on all the other missions including imperial wardens ch 1 and 2 but 3 isn't there, even tho I have him in my contact list... I think I might have bugged it, which isn't the games fault but a personal one that I will figure it out. I mostly added that part because I was still pretty heated when it happened because I was literally looking up a fix or solution and was frustrated and happened to spot the OP's post and agreed with it and felt like suggestion other possibility's and venting my grievances in the situation. I'm gonna try to finish up the rest of imp and then level out of his contact range to maybe shift him to de-active and pray that works otherwise I don't think I can complete his mission arc and do wardens ch 3 or 4 cuz she isn't on the list either, but those are my own problems.

Regardless whatever I say it doesn't exactly matter, it was simply a suggestion from my own "PERSONAL" experience dealing with it on multiple characters on multiple servers on MULTIPLE sides, on blue and red and gold, and it was just my opinion, I only recently came back after a 5 year hiatus and it was still like this back then to so I know it won't be changing anytime soon, Gold sider's getting called "complainers" is just the usual, especially by guys with "Rude" in the name.(tho just kidding about that last one I'm sure your a nice person just your view to the game is different from mine and my experiences, you did give a lot of good points and feedback, but it seemed pretty hostile like you were defending your life, it's just a suggestion to let players do more, and see more, that's all... saying it like that it sounds pretty greedy but i mean the first character I ever made in the OG game back when it was sub based was a Villain so yea I might be pretty greedy).

Praetorian's are players too, that's all.

Edited November 24 by Kakuyon

[Rudra]

3 minutes ago, Kakuyon said:

Hi yea I'm that "Complaining" guy and that was my first post on the forum and you proved my point exactly,

Okay, first? Chill. I'm not attacking you. Complaining is the only word I can think of for saying you are unable to complete both the Loyalist and Resistance arcs on the same character without having to turn off xp.

 

7 minutes ago, Kakuyon said:

you immediately jumped on defending your bias's...

Second, I wasn't defending anything. I was attempting to explain those parts of the game since your presentation on them was in error for the scaling bit or something I felt needed to be clarified for the punishment bit.

 

8 minutes ago, Kakuyon said:

but I only thought that it scaled because I can ONLY do missions at my level and in the level enemies were always either same or a couple levels higher/lower then me and usually when I out level my contact but I'm in the middle of a mission it just cuts the mission line... like mongoose's on mercy island or tunnel rat when needing to be introduced to Arvin,

While stand-alone missions from contacts will stop being provided by said contact if you out-level them, you can always finish their story arc missions. You know you are in their story arc if their icon in the contacts window shows an open book. However, you are correct in that most contacts will not introduce you to anyone after you out-level them. (Some do, but only for a specific contact, and those contacts are very rare.)

 

9 minutes ago, Kakuyon said:

but my point was it should scale to it... since each mission that makes you enter a building or cave or whatever is an instance zone, separate from the main map, and to remove the contacts level cap just so you can at least complete their mission line,

You can always complete a contact's mission line once you have started it even if you out-level that contact and are now level 50+3 but the contact is only for levels 1-5. As long as you have started a given contact's story arc (mission line), they will always give the next mission in that arc to you until the arc is complete as long as you are a valid alignment for that contact.

 

13 minutes ago, Kakuyon said:

You're somebody I guarantee that probably hops into xp farming groups and generally don't care about the stories or the lore of the game, which is fine I'm not judging you even if you arn't that person, everyone has different ways to play the game.

I don't power level. I play through the game's content. I turn off xp for characters that I want to do content for multiple sides at level for. So your assumption is wrong. The game's content is set up so that by the time you complete the content for one side in a given level band, you are the correct level for the next band and its associated contacts. So if you play a Praetorian and choose Loyalist, if you are level 10 and do the provided Loyalist content for level 10-15, should be at least level 16 at the end of the level 10-15 Loyalist content so that you can just go on to the next set of Loyalist content. Same with Resistance, Heroes, and Villains. Trying to do all the content for Praetorians at level, just like trying to do all Hero and Villain content at level on a given character, is not possible without turning off xp, and that is a good thing so that players that want just be Hero, Villain, Loyalist, or Resistance can keep doing their side's content without having to jump in a farm or go talk to Null the Gull to keep changing sides and grind out every mission the game has for them at level.

 

18 minutes ago, Kakuyon said:

it just feels like an unnecessary step that the player has to take if they want to enjoy the world they're exploring and story's their playing, it's not even for doing all of the missions... the OP is saying how even following ONE story line can end up with you out leveling the contact unable to complete the morality mission because of the restrictions, and I've had that happen to me before(Twice in Nova, once in Imperial, 3 times on mercy). and I agreed with their suggestion of even bumping as an option for players to at least finish one line of the story,

The only time I am aware of players out-leveling content without playing at higher than +0/x1 difficulty or doing the content for multiple sides is with Cleopatra. It is quite possible to just ding out of her solo morality mission just before she gives it to you. Yes, that is a problem. Her aside, I am not aware of players out-leveling content for their chosen side when they play their side's content unless they up the difficulty to get more xp. And at higher levels, even that won't typically have you out-level your contact before you can finish.

 

22 minutes ago, Kakuyon said:

That's exactly what I thought to try and do but his mission isn't appearing in the list on the stone because I wasn't able to "START" it... at least I think so...

That's not how the Ouroboros crystals work. Dr. Steffard specifically is available through the Crystal of Fire and Ice regardless of whether you did the Cutter Cain arc or not. If he isn't listed there, then I have to ask what level your character is. His mission in the crystal will not be visible unless you have either done his arc or you are level 20 or higher because of how the crystal works. So if you aren't level 20 or higher? Then look for him again when you are.

 

24 minutes ago, Kakuyon said:

I think I might have bugged it, which isn't the games fault but a personal one that I will figure it out

If somehow you are bugged, then contact a GM to have your character fixed. The Bug Reports forum or the support button in game are good tools for doing that.

[Kakuyon]

On 11/24/2024 at 7:02 PM, Rudra said:

That's not how the Ouroboros crystals work. Dr. Steffard specifically is available through the Crystal of Fire and Ice regardless of whether you did the Cutter Cain arc or not. If he isn't listed there, then I have to ask what level your character is. His mission in the crystal will not be visible unless you have either done his arc or you are level 20 or higher because of how the crystal works. So if you aren't level 20 or higher? Then look for him again when you are.

I will agree to disagree, I will agree that you have a much larger understanding of the games mechanics and features then me and you have been very helpful between the discussions, but I will still disagree about the xp toggling, it just feels like an extra step BUT I will admit... it is at least something for players to use, It coulda not been there and players would've been unable to do a lot of what is possible now, so I know it has it's uses and was a solution for the time, and I apologize in my assumption as well when I called you that, I didn't mean to retaliate aggressively with that comment, I was a bit hot headed and just assumed you might have been like those that don't really care about the... "Journey" but more the "results", that was my bad and I hope you will forgive that mistake, I don't have anything against those types of players either, we all play the game in our own ways. 

Also it happens more then Cleopatra's, it has happened in multiple missions where i just dinged 1 to much, the Dr. Arvin and I think in Imp it was... uhhhh a loyalist one I think, that was over 5 years ago tho, think responsibility, it was a different character then the one I was recently playing in any case. same thing with the other times it happened to me, the character i am currently having the issues with i was able to finish nova with xp off.

As to answer what I actually quoted from you,  I am level 15 so that might be what the issue is, I've never used the Pillar thing before and only recently learned of it because when I learned of Oroboros I tried to access it and was denied(Cuz I'm Praetorian and Oroboros is anti-nonrprimers, won't even let us vote or have jobs!) I then looked it up to find out about the pillar and all that, created a group simply so I can put one down, couldn't use it at first cuz I was level 14 lol, looked it up to learn you gotta be 15 to use it so then leveled up to use it, and well here we are, I didn't wanna level up more because I didn't want to get gated out of the next zones stories(not that 15 would do that but I wasn't sure if imp would continue at 15 or if I got kicked out so didn't wanna risk it) but if it is that his mission only appears on the list when I'm level 20 then that was EXTREMELY helpful and I thank you very much for that enlightenment, again I apologize for my assumptions but it was mostly due to lack of knowledge and my frustrations at the mechanics AND lack of my knowledge in them, I appreciate your feedback even if we disagree in some things but I will leave it at that, I hope you have a wonderful day... I got some stories to complete and leveling to do.

Praetoria, We can't be trusted with secrets.

(Update, turns out you don't need to be level 20, I just happened to check the Pillar at 17 and his mission popped up... can't confirm the exact level i had to be to get the mission to pop but i was able to complete it sooner then 20 but not at 15, currently working on the next warden step but wanted to let people know in case anybody ends up finding this and was curious)

Edited November 28 by Kakuyon
Just wanted to update