Help with plant/kin

[Docmetal]

Being rather new to trying to figure out how to optimize a controller build I was wondering if someone could help me with a build for a plant/kin controller. I see a lot of builds with kinetics in them but mostly with fire I have been trying to plan one on Pines but never seems to get anywhere probably just me trying too hard to figure it out. Thank you in advance

[Justisaur]

https://web.archive.org/web/20120906194707/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=283772

 

There's one from Local Man in there, I actually found it didn't work too well as it doesn't have enough +to hit and would fail against +3 and +4s. 

 

I made my own build based off of that where I added a kismet +6% to hit and some purples for the + accuracy and traded out some of the recharge for +accuracy (probably too much, need to figure that bit out) which casually wiped out +2s, and did fine against +4s other than taking forever to kill the bosses. 

 

I'm still refining it and testing things, and made a new one where I'm almost at s/l defense cap 44.something% and not using purples (I think I left 1 proc in though)  moved a lot of slots around and traded out some powers, especially dropping inertial reduction for tactics helped a lot.  I'm torn on making it a farming build or a teaming build, and currently made it a teaming build with a little more emphasis on single target damage debuff by going with mace mastery for poison ray and the arachnos spider pet.  For farming I'd probably stick to earth mastery as LM has it, Earth's bastion is really nice for when between groups or your heal didn't connect on that, and Earth Armor has higher s/l defense making it easier to cap s/l and focus more on recharge.  I haven't actually tested it out, as I need to get the sets on live (I'm hoping only a day or two to get the inf and get them) and justin was down, and I may have been a bit too aggressive on my rework leaving some of the powers with too few slots.

 

I'm curious what others think of LM's choices for Incarnates, and what to get first, since I seem to be gathering a bunch of threads and am not sure what to do with them.

 

I don't really like the character as it's extremely busy, the plant side feels pointless on the big teams - everything that I could AoE/control just dies instantly, but the controls don't do anything to AV's and it's way too slow on ST damage to make any difference, so it feels like I might as well not have a primary.  But it's my only 50 so I keep working at it and hoping I'll get to a point I do like it.  It feels like it'd be really good at farming (just not bosses) so I might give that a spin too.

 

I'll try to post the code dump (for some reason I can't get it to put out the text version, probably have to uninstall everything and reinstall it, which I haven't gotten around to)

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Weird, well I guess short instead of long works... now I know what to do (Edit: removed nasty text build info, see below for much better build.)  That's what I respeced to slot wise, I don't have all the IOS yet. 

 

I could always post what I had on Justin that worked, but I think it's probably a much worse build.  I just can't try this new one yet. 

 

Let me note a couple more things about this build

 

No accuracy in fulcrum shift - fulcrum shift auto hits, so even though it takes accuracy, it's unneeded (unless it doesn't auto-hit secondary targets, not sure on that, didn't see any to hit check on a group beyond the auto-hit, edit: ah I see it summons a psuedo pet, not sure if it'll work right without accuracy, need to try to test it somehow, but it doesn't show hits/misses, just the auto-hit) 

 

The two extra slots in combat jumping with the +resist and scaling resist aren't actually needed, but I figured 10% more resist would be nice. 

 

Transference and Stamina may be under-slotted, so need to test if it's workable as is. 

 

It may be too much +acc & +to hit (that I'd rather have as +rech if it is) but it's about the level of my previous working build, and I'd rather have it work than not.  I need to figure out exactly how much I need for +4s... or possibly just +3s if I get the level shift incarnate.

 

Burnout probably isn't needed, and could be traded out for another attack like disruptor blast or kick though it's already really busy and there aren't enough slots, or hover (you could reduce s/l reists then) or putting back in increase density (which is a questionable power, I've never had anyone ask for it, and it's too short duration for a click.)  I just wanted to try out burnout, with some vague idea of possibly casting it and getting a couple arachnos spiders and carrion creepers (not sure if possible) or doubling up on fulcrum shift or something, casting transference to get some end too.

[Justisaur]

That post is getting a bit long, just a slight update, Fulcrum Shift is auto-hit but only on the original target, so it looks like it still needs accuracy, until I get a better build, just take the last 2 slots off of combat jumping and place it in FS with accuracy.

[blazingcoconut]

Controllers have always been in an odd place.  On good teams, you're too slow to really contribute... but on good teams, you don't need to worry about doing much anyway.  There will be times when things go south that your controls will be appreciated.  Otherwise, no, you don't have a great place on a team.  So use your KIN to buff and let other people do the damage.  Toss out roots to keep things nice and tidy and have the creepers follow you around.  It's not an insignificant contribution.

 

Some slotting thoughts:

* Tactics probably would do better with either of the other sets.  One gives a 2% damage buff, the other gives S/L resistance.  Both are better than a runspeed buff

* I like LoTG in defensive slots to be combined with Red Fortune, which at 2 slots has S/L Resistance and 3 has F/C resistance.

* I'm not sure I would slot boxing, you have so many better things to do than that.

* In Tough if you get rid of the Karma slots and three slot the Gladiators Set, you get better bonuses and free up a slot since the Gladiators has a KB protection, you can free one slot

* This one is a toss up, but 5 slotting Posi in Carrion creepers gives you more damage and if you keep up 2 Siphon Speeds you'll have it perma anyway.  Plus +6.25% more recharge

* Not sure on the value of Burnout.  I'd probably rather have Disruptor blast to do something more with all the +DMG that you get from FS

* Sprint is a great place for Celerity + Stealth

* If you replace Combat Jumping with Stealth, you get the same defense and with Celerity now have invisibility to just about everything

* The defense bonus from Edict of the Master only applies to the Tarantula and Audry, not you.  You probably knew that, but I don't see a ton of value in that IO, it won't help the pets much and you could use the slot to help FS.

[Justisaur]

(edits made) Thanks for all the help blazingcoconut.

 

Gausian's is in tactics for the chance of build up, I'll take one out and frankenslot for lower cost, certainly won't need runspeed for this.

 

LotG is 4 slotted for accuracy, which plant needs, if I get more accuracy elsewhere then I can trade it out.  Total of 27% accuracy from 3 sets.

 

Gladiator's is really expensive - around 10m each if I remember, not out of the realm of possibility, but I was trying to avoid anything too hard to get (I'm actually finding the LotGs not that big a deal with converters, but you can't convert to a PVP set if you don't start with one.)  I actually need to find something to replace the one that's in tough, but need to make up the 3% def elsewhere.

 

Boxing was slotted for s/l in LG's original build, I've just left it, I assume it's there for another quick single target attack too - I'm going to try it out (I didn't in my test as I didn't realize that's what it was there for), but will definitely consider getting rid of the slots if it doesn't seem to add much.

 

Carrion Creepers was again in LG's original build with the procs, so I left it, I wasn't too sure about that one myself.  The build wasn't that far back from the end, but it might have had legacy procs from before PPM when procs were really good.  I'll change it to get rid of the hammis there and elsewhere.

 

Combat Jumping some people find pretty valuable for positioning  I don't think I've been using it much though. Don't you get half the defense when visible with Stealth, so it's not as good as CJ? Full invis would be pretty tempting though. 

 

Does two Celerity's +stealth stack?  I thought you could only have one?  I can't see giving up super speed, I went without it last time and I felt so slow until I could hit something with a siphon speed.

 

I didn't realize that the edict of the master only applied to the pets when I did that build.  I moved that slot to fulcrum shift for the next iteration.

 

I don't think the Disruptor Blast would add much as there's so much area damage already, but I'm still working on getting all the parts of what I have to test it out I've got the money now, it's just a matter of me being frugal and not wanting to spend more than I have to (not sure I'll be able to get the hammis though, those are very expensive so might frankenslot some there instead.)  I was actually thinking of trading burnout for kick 15% base damage to it and boxing, and one more ST attack.  There aren't enough slots to properly slot another attack either.

 

I'll probably add your other suggested changes, but need to look over the full effect, and I still need to figure out exactly how much +to hit and accuracy I need, and if I want to bother with making everything soft capped, vines is .8 base accuracy, roots .9 and SoC is 1.  I'll probably start with vines soft capped, although I'm not sure where the .8 goes in the equation exactly.

 

After the below accuracy calculations, I found I only need one accuracy in both siphon speed and fulrcum shift, so that left one slot.

[Justisaur]

I did the chance to hit math for +4 content.

 

Vines I came up with 96.4% chance to hit, so right on the edge.

 

Roots currently has 103% to hit, if there was some way to do so, you could drop up to 14% accuracy and still be at soft cap.

 

SoC and other attacks only needs an added you only need 16% accuracy from direct enhancements at this point, so you can pretty much trade any accuracy out in the enhancements as long as you have 1 in one of them. However it's still not enough to drop tactics due to the multiplication in the formula, if you dropped tactics, SoC would only have a 90% chance to hit with it's current 73% enhancement. 

 

It would be enough if level shifted against non-incarnates though, however Vines would only reach 93% chance to hit, so you could consider trading out the 1/3 accuracy frankenslotted essence of curare for a 1/2 slotted dropping the hold or recharge which would get to the cap, Roots is still at cap as is for that.

 

It's also worth considering that since Vines is so inaccurate either dropping it or just accepting it's going to miss a lot more and not really be as useful for what it does, which in my use is either as a 'extra group agroed' button or for stacking a hold on a boss.

 

I like to be prepared for any eventuality, and hated running the original LM's build without enough to hit/accuracy, so I'll stick with it, but may trade out some accuracy here and there since I know I only need 16% on most things.

 

Sorry if I hijacked the thread as I'm working on my Plant/Kin too.

[Greentea]

Nice build you have there. Just letting you know Kick is much better than Boxing and the mace ST have redraw. I. Hate. Redraws.

[Justisaur]

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962

http://www.cohplanner.com/

 

Click this DataLink to open the build!

 

Covfefe: Level 50 Mutation Controller

Primary Power Set: Plant Control

Secondary Power Set: Kinetics

Power Pool: Fighting

Power Pool: Speed

Power Pool: Leaping

Power Pool: Leadership

Ancillary Pool: Stone Mastery

 

Hero Profile:

Level 1: Strangler -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold:30(A), BslGaz-Acc/Rchg:30(3), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold:30(3), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:30(5), BslGaz-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:30(5)

Level 1: Transfusion -- TchoftheN-Heal:50(A), TchoftheN-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg:50(7), TchoftheN-Acc/Heal:50(7), TchoftheN-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen:50(9), TchoftheN-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:50(9)

Level 2: Roots -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg:50(A), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx:50(11), PstBls-Dmg/Rchg:50(11), PstBls-Dam%:50(13), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(13), TraoftheH-Dam%:50(15)

Level 4: Boxing -- KntCmb-Knock%:35(A), KntCmb-Acc/Dmg:35(19), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx:35(19), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(21)

Level 6: Siphon Power -- Acc-I:50(A)

Level 8: Seeds of Confusion -- Prp-Acc/Rchg:50(A), Prp-Rchg/Conf:50(21), Prp-Acc/EndRdx:50(23), Prp-Conf/Rng:50(23), Prp-Acc/Conf/Rchg:50(25), Range-I:50(25)

Level 10: Super Speed -- Clr-Stlth:50(A)

Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(27)

Level 14: Siphon Speed -- Acc-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(27), RechRdx-I:50(29)

Level 16: Combat Jumping -- Ksm-ToHit+:30(A), LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(29), Rct-ResDam%:50(31)

Level 18: Vines -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold:30(A), BslGaz-Acc/Rchg:30(31), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold:30(31), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:30(33), EssofCrr-Acc/Hold/Rchg:30(33)

Level 20: Speed Boost -- EndMod-I:50(A)

Level 22: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/EndRdx:30(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(33), StdPrt-ResKB:30(34)

Level 24: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), RedFrt-Def:50(34), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx:50(34)

Level 26: Carrion Creepers -- PstBls-Dam%:20(A), PstBls-Acc/Dmg:30(36), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx:50(36), PstBls-Dmg/Rchg:50(36), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(37), Ann-ResDeb%:50(37)

Level 28: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx:50(37), RedFrt-Def:50(39)

Level 30: Tactics -- AdjTrg-ToHit:50(A), GssSynFr--Build%:50(39)

Level 32: Fly Trap -- ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx:50(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg:50(39), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(40), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg:50(40), BldMnd-Acc/Dmg:50(40)

Level 35: Transference -- EffAdp-EndMod:50(A), EffAdp-EndMod/Acc/Rchg:50(42)

Level 38: Fulcrum Shift -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(42), Acc-I:50(42)

Level 41: Fissure -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg:50(A), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx:50(43), PstBls-Dmg/Rchg:50(43), PstBls-Dmg/Rng:50(43), PstBls-Dam%:50(45)

Level 44: Seismic Smash -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx:35(45), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg:35(45), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(46), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(46)

Level 47: Rock Armor -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(48), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx:50(48), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(48)

Level 49: Earth's Embrace -- Prv-EndRdx/Rchg:50(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg:50(50), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx:50(50), Prv-Absorb%:50(50)

Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)

Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I:50(A)

Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I:50(A)

Level 1: Containment

Level 4: Ninja Run

Level 2: Swift -- Run-I:50(A)

Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)

Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+:40(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+:40(15), DctWnd-Heal:50(46)

Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%:50(A), PrfShf-EndMod:50(17), EffAdp-EndMod:50(17)

Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)

Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)

Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)

Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)

Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)

Level 50: Nerve Radial Paragon

Level 50: Pyronic Partial Core Judgement

Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface

Level 50: Clarion Core Epiphany

Level 0: Portal Jockey

Level 0: Task Force Commander

Level 0: The Atlas Medallion

------------

 

 

 

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[Justisaur]

(edited) Updated the build above, had to post separately as it said I exceeded the max characters.

 

This is probably what I'm going to try next respec.  Removed all the hamis, purples and pvp sets.  I also got it just above soft-cap for s/l, I was able to remove all but one of the lotg sets and get some slots in better spots.  I think that's about all I can do with this set without dipping into a lot more expensive sets, which I don't want to do without a lot more testing to see if I like this better.

 

I tested against an AE tunnel s/l farm, which I could do up to +4 x8 without bosses, but bosses were too hard and took too long to kill eventually killing me most times.  Against an arachnos paper mission at +4 x8 which destroyed me. Lastly against Freaks, which I was able to get to +4 x8 with some luck and/or good tactics.  I also tried to help in the comic con AE s/l farm, I had to pop at least 4 oranges and I ended up face-planting eventually even with those. 

 

I updated the above build and switched back to LM's original choice of Stone epic, the Poison Ray didn't seem to be doing much, and the spider bot wasn't up enough and died easily, I also found that burnout didn't reset the spider bot power, I tried with creepers, which I think it worked with, but it was hard to tell, and wasn't worth the power for an extra creepers once in a long while.  I had tried earth before and the heal/health increase was quite nice for when you want to get a breather from staying close for transference.

 

I also discovered that using gabriel's hammer (bought from the P2W store) did way more damage than all of my single target attacks combined, It was doing somewhere around 250 damage, vs. less than 50 for strangler and poison ray with fulcrum shift taking a large chunk (maybe 1/4th?) of a boss' health.  It's slow, but well worth the time.  So I strongly suggest filling up on that one if you can, it doesn't cost a lot from what I remember (5k?.)

 

I removed the builds with mace (I'll leave the original chunk for posterity) just to clean up the thread a little.