Dark Current Posted January 25 Author Posted January 25 (edited) On 1/23/2025 at 9:12 AM, Uncle Shags said: I saw this quote below posted in the General section in a thread addressing armor toggle costs. OP caught flack for the data not being robust enough. I found this sarcastic response to the criticism hilarious, and it reminding me of the work here you've done here. Your data is friggin awesome, and way, way, way beyond anything I've seen here. Holy shit I joked early on about requesting a statistician....ummmm...that's you! LOL. But hey, could your sample size be bigger? Sure. But who's got time for that?! This is for fun in a video game forum! You're obviously already putting in a ton of time and effort. Jeezus I hope you enjoy doing it! That's one point: this isn't a peer reviewed publication, so we can chill out. But I am also making another point that I think is more important. If all you were doing was showing numbers, that would be great, but then the sample size criticism would be pretty valid. But that's not all you're doing! To me, you've dealt with that issue by including serious and well thought out QUALitative data and analysis. Sure, there are the numbers, but what are the observations, what are hypothesis we can draw from these observations? You've done that in spades. It's friggin awesome. You're a bad ass. We live in a world of numbers and data and sometimes think that's the pinnacle of knowledge. HARD SCIENCE RAWR! And of course a bunch of video game geeks love to focus on that (no offense, I include myself in this group). But there is a whole lot of value that can be gained by combining quantitative and qualitative data. Where would we be without the Jane Goodalls of the world?! I hope people haven't dismissed this work you've done because of the sample size issue. I think it's a distraction from all the great things happening here. I also hope you haven't found it discouraging. That would be a damn shame... I do feel bad because I haven't personally gotten into this and engaged with you. My excuse is I'm mostly a melee guy, and the few defender/controller powers I've gotten into haven't been covered. So much of this is greek to me. But I will give you the collegial slap on the back! Good work! A++. Appreciate the support and you seeing the value of the combined data here. It's not just on-paper evaluation, which marks most comparisons of this type of question. And it's not just a one-time mission or taskforce observation. It's a sum of multiple missions and multiple builds with multiple teams and maps and foes. It's a combination of quantitative measurements combined with qualitative experiences and supported by the videos and posted stats that anybody else can comb through and come to their own conclusions. I know the initial response was critical, but it was based on a single presentation of the first data set, which I think ignores what's been added since and the overall scope of the study. With that said, I present DEFCON 3... Time Manipulation! DEFCON Level 3 pits a Dual Pistols / Time Manipulation / Ice Mastery Defender against a Gravity / Time / Energy Controller in a battle for supremacy over the timestream. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Starting in the Blue Corner... the Tycoon of Time, Marquis du Temps! MIDS Build: Marquis du Temps 2 - Defender (Time Manipulation).mbd ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ And in the Red Corner, the Queen of Crushing Death, Mistress of Time and Space... Bhootakash MIDS Build: Bhootakash - Controller (Gravity Control).mbd Edited January 25 by Dark Current
Dark Current Posted January 25 Author Posted January 25 Marquis du Temps unwinds with his build and solo showcase: Time is luxury he can afford!
Dark Current Posted January 25 Author Posted January 25 Bhootakash demonstrates why she is known as the Crushing Death!
Dark Current Posted January 25 Author Posted January 25 (edited) DEFCON 3 Time Manipulation Defender - Team Trials Marquis du Temps (Time / DP / Ice) winds up a steady team of 5 for 5 straight missions, ending in a 30-minute romp through the streets of Peregrine Isle in defense of the citizenry: Stats: Rates = per minute calculations; Indexes = per teammate calculations 1. Survivability Mission Personal Defeats Time Teammate Survivability Rate Survivability Index 1 0 8 5 0.00 0.00 2 0 12 5 0.00 0.00 3 0 6 5 0.00 0.00 4 0 16 5 0.00 0.00 safeguard 0 30 4 0.00 0.00 Total à 0 72 0.00 0.00 ß AVG 2. Risk Mission Ally Defeats Time Teammate Risk Rate Risk Index 1 1 8 5 0.13 0.20 2 0 12 5 0.00 0.00 3 0 6 5 0.00 0.00 4 0 16 5 0.00 0.00 safeguard 3 30 4 0.10 0.75 Total à 4 72 0.05 0.19 ß AVG 3. Lethality Mission Kills Time Teammate Lethality Rate Lethality Index 1 42 8 5 5.25 8.40 2 53 12 5 4.42 10.60 3 26 6 5 4.33 5.20 4 31 16 5 1.94 6.20 safeguard 127 30 4 4.23 31.75 Total à 279 72 4.03 12.43 ß AVG 4. Threat Mission: 1 2 3 4 safeguard Attack total: Bullet Rain 4993 6468 2959 4179 12845 31444 Dual Wield 372 647 105 2211 5877 9211 Empty Clips 3324 4102 3222 1177 25104 36929 Executioner's Shot 374 587 449 832 3636 5879 Hail of Bullets 6302 10451 1032 6121 2806 26711 Piercing Rounds 681 2480 992 1714 7934 13801 Pistols 130 462 294 314 4624 5824 Suppressive Fire 238 272 271 175 131 1086 Distortion Field: Impeded. Swiftness 865 2043 465 1032 3226 7631 Slowed Response: Shield Break 1597 474 206 1781 2798 6856 Time Stop: GW’s Embrace 30 161 84 112 320 706 Time Stop: Gladiator's Net 54 322 93 1363 799 2632 Time Stop: Unbreakable Constraint 251 1142 93 261 224 1972 Doublehit (Hybrid: Assault) 727 1054 1778 488 1795 5842 Ion Radial (Judgement) 14360 10095 3428 13734 25791 67408 Ion Total Radial (Judgement) 1197 2687 738 1768 1615 8006 Mission Total: 35493 43446 16207 37263 99526 231935 Pet Damage Output Mission: 1 2 3 4 Safeguard Pet Total: Ice Elemental (Ice Mistral Torment) 293 4778 1178 1334 10262 17844 Laser Drone Essence 4637 4628 2945 3482 8833 24524 Shield Drone Essence 2081 3328 1496 2555 5948 15407 Mission Total: 7010 12733 5618 7370 25043 57774 Combined Damage Output Mission DMG out Time Teammate Threat Rate Threat Index 1 42504 8 5 5313 8501 2 56179 12 5 4682 11236 3 21825 6 5 3638 4365 4 44633 16 5 2790 8927 safeguard 124568 30 4 4152 31142 Total à 289709 72 4115 12834 ß AVG 5. Resilience Damage Type Taken Type: 1 2 3 4 Safeguard Type Total Cold 0 0 0 0 335 335 Energy 0 1517 0 0 794 2310 Fire 2307 0 0 624 2148 5079 Lethal 1476 77 13 1037 5280 7882 Negative Energy 0 0 0 154 531 685 Psionic 0 788 0 0 3576 4364 Smashing 891 120 0 534 1042 2587 Toxic 2601 123 519 262 0 3505 Mission Total: 7274 2624 532 2611 13706 26747 Overall Damage Taken Mission DMG in Time Teammate Resilience Rate Resilience Index 1 7274 8 5 909 1455 2 2624 12 5 219 525 3 532 6 5 89 106 4 2611 16 5 163 522 safeguard 13706 30 4 457 3426 Total à 26747 72 367 1207 ß AVG Edited January 25 by Dark Current
Dark Current Posted January 25 Author Posted January 25 (edited) DEFCON 3 Time Manipulation Controller - Team Trials Bhootakash (Gravity / Time / Energy) gathers a force 5 worthy guardians to restore order to the streets of Peregrine Isle. Mission Retrospective Mission 1 (Arachnos rescue, Hollow Point) = 25 minutes with 4 teammates Mission 2 (Carnies boss) = 28 minutes with 4 teammates Mission 3 (5th Column boss, Maelstrom) = 22 minutes with 4 teammates Mission 4 (Council boss) = 15 minutes with 4 teammates Safeguard (Carnies, Malta, Arachnos, Critical Mass) = 41 minutes with 4 teammates Total Time = 131 minutes DEFCON 3 Stats: 1. Survivability Mission Personal Defeats Time Teammate Survivability Rate Survivability Index 1 1 25 4 0.04 0.25 2 0 28 4 0.00 0.00 3 0 22 4 0.00 0.00 4 0 15 4 0.00 0.00 Safeguard 0 41 4 0.00 0.00 Total à 1 131 0.01 0.05 ß AVG 2. Risk Mission Ally Defeats Time Teammate Risk Rate Risk Index 1 2 25 4 0.08 0.50 2 1 28 4 0.04 0.25 3 1 22 4 0.05 0.25 4 1 15 4 0.07 0.25 Safeguard 4 41 4 0.10 1.00 Total à 9 131 0.07 0.45 ß AVG 3. Lethality Mission Kills Time Teammate Lethality Rate Lethality Index 1 91 25 4 3.64 22.75 2 101 28 4 3.61 25.25 3 45 22 4 2.05 11.25 4 45 15 4 3.00 11.25 Safeguard 87 41 4 2.12 21.75 Total à 369 131 2.88 18.45 ß AVG 4. Threat Personal Damage Output Mission: 1 2 3 4 Safeguard Attack Total: Crushing Field 4034 3342 1351 1475 2731 12934 Impeded Swiftness 1831 1258 481 658 745 4973 Positron's Blast 1431 1051 726 340 1018 4565 Superior Will of the Controller 3160 2097 891 1641 2096 9884 Trap of the Hunter 1347 1527 522 513 1007 4917 Energy Torrent 6706 8680 3384 1863 7580 28213 Gravity Distortion 3344 4311 3057 1948 6309 18970 Apocalypse 1317 2130 1280 757 2987 8471 Lift 3362 5877 3664 2948 7254 23105 Power Blast 812 1315 1268 813 2580 6789 Propel 5699 8097 5635 4311 8286 32028 Time's Juncture (Ice Mistral's Torment) 2160 3123 1429 1059 2931 10701 Weaken Resolve (Shield Breaker) 641 224 203 30 382 1480 Cryonic Total Radial Judgement 15109 15015 11365 6474 21655 69618 Mission Total: 50952 58046 35256 24830 67562 236647 Pet Damage Output Pet 1 2 3 4 Safeguard Pet Total: Energy Font (Distortion Field) 2720 4761 1095 746 2881 12204 Singularity 19792 16844 7758 9530 11322 65245 Storm Elemental 5843 6932 1880 3206 9616 27477 Tempest Elemental 14773 16540 2769 12726 19044 65852 Mission Total: 43129 45077 13501 26208 42863 170778 Combined Damage Output Mission DMG out Time Teammate Threat Rate Threat Index 1 94081 25 4 3763 23520 2 103122 28 4 3683 25781 3 48758 22 4 2216 12189 4 51038 15 4 3403 12760 Safeguard 110426 41 4 2693 27606 Total à 407425 131 3152 20371 ß AVG 5. Resilience Type of Damage Taken Mission: 1 2 3 4 Mayhem Type Total Cold 0 0 510 69 1575 2154 Energy 4083 342 261 101 791 5578 Fire 176 383 4278 1310 3113 9259 Lethal 306 33 1896 156 1832 4223 Negative Energy 0 187 232 3277 389 4084 Psionic 4655 5016 0 0 8450 18122 Smashing 318 151 490 74 1016 2048 Toxic 1972 0 327 0 0 2299 Mission Total: 11511 6112 7993 4986 17166 47768 Overall Damage Taken Mission DMG in Time Teammate Resilience Rate Resilience Index 1 11511 25 4 460 2878 2 6112 28 4 218 1528 3 7993 22 4 363 1998 4 4986 15 4 332 1247 Safeguard 17166 41 4 419 4291 Total à 47768 131 359 2388 ß AVG Edited January 31 by Dark Current
Dark Current Posted January 25 Author Posted January 25 (edited) For comparison, I present Marquis du Temps stats with Time Manipulation vs. the previous 2 defenders (Ampere Avenger and Skreaming Tree) with Electrical and Nature Affinity. From this data, it seems that this build with Time is superior in multiple ways to the previous 2 defender builds. How much of that is due to Time Manipulation itself vs the defensive strategy of the build (massive -SPD and -RCH debuffery) remains to be seen. The controller data with the same sets could give insight into the answer if Bhootakash likewise shows the best results with her Time build. Edited January 25 by Dark Current
Dark Current Posted January 31 Author Posted January 31 (edited) Bhootakash vs her controller peers: Edited February 6 by Dark Current
Dark Current Posted January 31 Author Posted January 31 (edited) What happened? What do Marquis's stats mean? My stat breakdown and telestrated reaction to the Marquis's team trials Edited February 6 by Dark Current
Dark Current Posted January 31 Author Posted January 31 (edited) What happened? What do Bhootakash's stats mean? My stat breakdown and telestrated reaction to the Bhootakhash team trials. Edited February 6 by Dark Current
Dark Current Posted February 6 Author Posted February 6 (edited) The Verdict is in! DEFCON 3 goes to the Defender!!! Edited February 6 by Dark Current
shortguy on indom Posted February 6 Posted February 6 LOOKS KINDA CLOSE. ARE DEFENDER YOUR FUN PICK AS WELL OVER CONTROLLERS? PvP Capture the Flag! Bring some fun into it....
Dark Current Posted February 8 Author Posted February 8 On 2/5/2025 at 8:31 PM, shortguy on indom said: LOOKS KINDA CLOSE. ARE DEFENDER YOUR FUN PICK AS WELL OVER CONTROLLERS? Matchup was very close, but Defender gets the nod for more offensive contribution. He had a statistically significant higher number of foe defeats and damage output over his 5 missions compared to the Controller. The two were virtually identical in defensive measures - self defeats, ally defeats, damage taken. Defenders were my original go-to on live, followed by dominators when CoV launched. However, I've grown to enjoy controllers with HC launch a few years ago. For me, the combinations are what matters. I can make either AT work effectively and enjoy their contributions. I have favorite builds of both ATs and wouldn't necessarily pick one over the other.
Dark Current Posted February 8 Author Posted February 8 (edited) DEFCON 2 is here and it's time to compare Kinetics! DEFCON Level 2 has a Kinetics / Radiation / Psychic Defender squaring off with an Earth / Kinetics / Earth Controller in a winner-take-all matchup. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In the Blue Corner, we have Chakra a mental guru whose decades of meditative training have exposed the universal strings connecting all matter in the universe, which he plays to move objects outside the timestream causing them to accelerate and decelerate, as well as snap the connections to unleash bursts of cosmic energy against his foes. MIDS Build: Chakra - Defender (Kinetics).mbd Build Discussion and Solo Showcase Video: RELEASING 2/18 !!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- And in the Red Corner, we have Deimos, a Controller of Tech Origin whose power suit is fitted with rare tectonite crystals that redirect seismic forces and telluric currents in a localized area, giving him the ability to warp stone and alter its magnetic fields. MIDS Build: Deimos - Controller (Earth Control).mbd Build Discussion and Solo Showcase Video: Edited February 15 by Dark Current
Dark Current Posted February 15 Author Posted February 15 (edited) First up in the DEFCON 2 Kinetics Team Trials... my controller Deimos (Earth / Kinetics / Earth) gets the party started with a couple of the Best of the Worst. Watch to learn why you need to use audio confirmations with PuGs! Mission Retrospective Mission 1 (Malta, boss and glowie) = 6 minutes with 4 teammates Mission 2 (Arachnos, escort NPC) = 8 minutes with 4 teammates Mission 3 (Carnie, glowie) = 11 minutes with 4 teammates Mission 4 (Longbow, escort NPC) = 12 minutes with 4 teammates Mission 5 (Carnies, rescue officers, recruit Overdrive) = 20 minutes with 4 teammates Total Time = 57 minutes 1. Survivability = Personal Defeats Mission Personal Defeats Time Teammate Survivability Rate Survivability Index 1 0 6 4 0.00 0.00 2 0 8 4 0.00 0.00 3 0 11 4 0.00 0.00 4 0 12 4 0.00 0.00 5 0 20 4 0.00 0.00 total 0 57 0.00 0.00 ß AVG 2. Risk = Ally Defeats Mission Ally Defeats Time Teammate Risk Rate Risk Index 1 2 6 4 0.33 0.50 2 1 8 4 0.13 0.25 3 0 11 4 0.00 0.00 4 1 12 4 0.08 0.25 5 0 20 4 0.00 0.00 total 4 57 0.11 0.20 ß AVG 3. Lethality = Foe Defeats Mission Kills Time Teammate Lethality Rate Lethality Index 1 24 6 4 4.00 6.00 2 42 8 4 5.25 10.50 3 55 11 4 5.00 13.75 4 33 12 4 2.75 8.25 5 114 20 4 5.70 28.50 total 268 57 4.54 13.40 ß AVG 4. Threat = Damage Output Mission DMG out Time Teammate Threat Rate Threat Index 1 30271 6 4 5045 7568 2 32299 8 4 4037 8075 3 58663 11 4 5333 14666 4 47442 12 4 3953 11860 5 93463 20 4 4673 23366 Total à 262138 57 4608 13107 ß AVG Personal Damage Output Mission: 1 2 3 4 5 Attack Total: Boxing 79 102 0 86 0 267 Fissure 1724 2796 2595 765 3258 11137 Fossilize 467 1405 1918 2509 3406 9704 Seismic Smash 201 705 1287 406 1634 4233 Stalagmites 131 404 926 612 2341 4414 Bombardment 574 818 1610 1748 3895 8645 Positron's Blast 620 909 1575 1730 3790 8624 Stone Cages 302 1926 930 2178 3214 8550 Stone Prison 421 633 575 970 1317 3916 Volcanic Ground 541 499 862 414 1960 6624 Positron’s Blast 461 206 439 444 797 na Earthquake (Explosive Strike, Touch of Lady Grey) 537 1188 757 981 2058 5520 Quicksand (Impeded Swiftness) 563 722 509 760 1595 4148 Transfusion (Touch of the Nictus) 126 40 143 47 233 589 Volcanic Geyser (Ghost Widow’s Embrace, Neuronic Shutdown) 1181 681 1133 867 2313 6175 Pyronic Judgement 2912 7510 10461 12905 27755 61543 Mission Total: 10841 20544 25719 27421 59565 144089 Pet Damage Output Pet 1 2 3 4 5 Pet Total: Animated Stone 2735 11331 13857 8806 19210 55939 Anti-Matter Particles 5439 0 7350 2242 1883 16914 Builder Essence 4659 0 3364 3450 3025 14498 Dismantler Essence 6580 0 8279 4856 7825 27540 Energy Font 19 424 94 666 1956 3158 Mission Total: 19431 11755 32944 20020 33898 118049 5. Resilience = Damage Taken Mission DMG in Time Teammate Resilience Rate Resilience Index 1 1557 6 4 259 389 2 3773 8 4 472 943 3 2071 11 4 188 518 4 2739 12 4 228 685 5 4845 20 4 242 1211 Total à 14984 57 278 749 ß AVG Type of Damage Taken Mission: 1 2 3 4 Mayhem Type Total Cold 314 0 0 0 0 314 Energy 38 984 152 673 577 2425 Fire 426 119 192 329 210 1276 Lethal 681 0 0 1114 192 1986 Negative Energy 0 0 97 0 120 217 Psionic 0 2104 1508 215 3221 7048 Smashing 98 117 123 408 524 1270 Toxic 0 449 0 0 0 449 Mission Total: 1557 3773 2071 2739 4845 14984 Edited February 15 by Dark Current
Dark Current Posted February 16 Author Posted February 16 (edited) Reaction Time! Edited February 16 by Dark Current
Octogoat Posted February 18 Posted February 18 Still finding these analysis completely engaging please keep bringing them to us!
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