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Posted (edited)
On 1/23/2025 at 9:12 AM, Uncle Shags said:

I saw this quote below posted in the General section in a thread addressing armor toggle costs.  OP caught flack for the data not being robust enough.  I found this sarcastic response to the criticism hilarious, and it reminding me of the work here you've done here.

Your data is friggin awesome, and way, way, way beyond anything I've seen here.  Holy shit I joked early on about requesting a statistician....ummmm...that's you!  LOL. 

 

But hey, could your sample size be bigger?  Sure.  But who's got time for that?!  This is for fun in a video game forum!  You're obviously already putting in a ton of time and effort.  Jeezus I hope you enjoy doing it!

 

That's one point: this isn't a peer reviewed publication, so we can chill out.  But I am also making another point that I think is more important.  If all you were doing was showing numbers, that would be great, but then the sample size criticism would be pretty valid.  But that's not all you're doing!  To me, you've dealt with that issue by including serious and well thought out QUALitative data and analysis.  Sure, there are the numbers, but what are the observations, what are hypothesis we can draw from these observations?  You've done that in spades.  It's friggin awesome.  You're a bad ass.

 

We live in a world of numbers and data and sometimes think that's the pinnacle of knowledge.  HARD SCIENCE RAWR!  And of course a bunch of video game geeks love to focus on that (no offense, I include myself in this group).  But there is a whole lot of value that can be gained by combining quantitative and qualitative data.  Where would we be without the Jane Goodalls of the world?!

 

I hope people haven't dismissed this work you've done because of the sample size issue.  I think it's a distraction from all the great things happening here.  I also hope you haven't found it discouraging.  That would be a damn shame...

 

I do feel bad because I haven't personally gotten into this and engaged with you.  My excuse is I'm mostly a melee guy, and the few defender/controller powers I've gotten into haven't been covered.  So much of this is greek to me.  But I will give you the collegial slap on the back!

 

Good work!  A++.

Appreciate the support and you seeing the value of the combined data here. It's not just on-paper evaluation, which marks most comparisons of this type of question. And it's not just a one-time mission or taskforce observation. It's a sum of multiple missions and multiple builds with multiple teams and maps and foes. It's a combination of quantitative measurements combined with qualitative experiences and supported by the videos and posted stats that anybody else can comb through and come to their own conclusions. I know the initial response was critical, but it was based on a single presentation of the first data set, which I think ignores what's been added since and the overall scope of the study.

With that said, I present DEFCON 3... Time Manipulation!
 

DEFCON Level 3 pits a Dual Pistols / Time Manipulation / Ice Mastery Defender against a Gravity / Time / Energy Controller in a battle for supremacy over the timestream.
 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Starting in the Blue Corner... the Tycoon of Time, Marquis du Temps!

image.thumb.png.65553c619718614d3a564c7f3b952b3c.png

 

image.png.6d6771114789476ff578b142a70e6a79.png

 

MIDS Build: Marquis du Temps 2 - Defender (Time Manipulation).mbd

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

And in the Red Corner, the Queen of Crushing Death, Mistress of Time and Space... Bhootakash

image.thumb.png.ff3d2a86d060956efa5c89bde9d876a9.png

 

image.png.6d6771114789476ff578b142a70e6a79.png

 

MIDS Build: Bhootakash - Controller (Gravity Control).mbd

Edited by Dark Current
Posted (edited)

DEFCON 3 Time Manipulation Defender - Team Trials

 

Marquis du Temps (Time / DP / Ice) winds up a steady team of 5 for 5 straight missions, ending in a 30-minute romp through the streets of Peregrine Isle in defense of the citizenry:

 

 

Stats: Rates = per minute calculations; Indexes = per teammate calculations

1. Survivability

Mission

Personal Defeats

Time

Teammate

Survivability Rate

Survivability Index

 

1

0

8

5

0.00

0.00

 

2

0

12

5

0.00

0.00

 

3

0

6

5

0.00

0.00

 

4

0

16

5

0.00

0.00

 

safeguard

0

30

4

0.00

0.00

 

Total à

0

72

 

0.00

0.00

ß AVG

 

2. Risk

Mission

Ally Defeats

Time

Teammate

Risk Rate

Risk Index

 

1

1

8

5

0.13

0.20

 

2

0

12

5

0.00

0.00

 

3

0

6

5

0.00

0.00

 

4

0

16

5

0.00

0.00

 

safeguard

3

30

4

0.10

0.75

 

Total à

4

72

 

0.05

0.19

ß AVG

 

3. Lethality

Mission

Kills

Time

Teammate

Lethality Rate

Lethality Index

 

1

42

8

5

5.25

8.40

 

2

53

12

5

4.42

10.60

 

3

26

6

5

4.33

5.20

 

4

31

16

5

1.94

6.20

 

safeguard

127

30

4

4.23

31.75

 

Total à

279

72

 

4.03

12.43

ß AVG

 

4. Threat

Mission:

1

2

3

4

safeguard

Attack total:

Bullet Rain

4993

6468

2959

4179

12845

31444

Dual Wield

372

647

105

2211

5877

9211

Empty Clips

3324

4102

3222

1177

25104

36929

Executioner's Shot

374

587

449

832

3636

5879

Hail of Bullets

6302

10451

1032

6121

2806

26711

Piercing Rounds

681

2480

992

1714

7934

13801

Pistols

130

462

294

314

4624

5824

Suppressive Fire

238

272

271

175

131

1086

Distortion Field: Impeded. Swiftness

865

2043

465

1032

3226

7631

Slowed Response: Shield Break

1597

474

206

1781

2798

6856

Time Stop: GW’s Embrace

30

161

84

112

320

706

Time Stop: Gladiator's Net

54

322

93

1363

799

2632

Time Stop: Unbreakable Constraint

251

1142

93

261

224

1972

Doublehit (Hybrid: Assault)

727

1054

1778

488

1795

5842

Ion Radial (Judgement)

14360

10095

3428

13734

25791

67408

Ion Total Radial (Judgement)

1197

2687

738

1768

1615

8006

Mission Total:

35493

43446

16207

37263

99526

231935

 

Pet Damage Output

Mission:

1

2

3

4

Safeguard

Pet Total:

Ice Elemental (Ice Mistral Torment)

293

4778

1178

1334

10262

17844

Laser Drone Essence

4637

4628

2945

3482

8833

24524

Shield Drone Essence

2081

3328

1496

2555

5948

15407

Mission Total:

7010

12733

5618

7370

25043

57774

 

Combined Damage Output

Mission

DMG out

Time

Teammate

Threat Rate

Threat Index

 

1

42504

8

5

5313

8501

 

2

56179

12

5

4682

11236

 

3

21825

6

5

3638

4365

 

4

44633

16

5

2790

8927

 

safeguard

124568

30

4

4152

31142

 

Total à

289709

72

 

4115

12834

ß AVG

 

5. Resilience

Damage Type Taken

Type:

1

2

3

4

Safeguard

Type Total

Cold

0

0

0

0

335

335

Energy

0

1517

0

0

794

2310

Fire

2307

0

0

624

2148

5079

Lethal

1476

77

13

1037

5280

7882

Negative Energy

0

0

0

154

531

685

Psionic

0

788

0

0

3576

4364

Smashing

891

120

0

534

1042

2587

Toxic

2601

123

519

262

0

3505

Mission Total:

7274

2624

532

2611

13706

26747

 

Overall Damage Taken

Mission

DMG in

Time

Teammate

Resilience Rate

Resilience Index

 

1

7274

8

5

909

1455

 

2

2624

12

5

219

525

 

3

532

6

5

89

106

 

4

2611

16

5

163

522

 

safeguard

13706

30

4

457

3426

 

Total à

26747

72

 

367

1207

ß AVG

Edited by Dark Current
Posted (edited)

DEFCON 3 Time Manipulation Controller - Team Trials

 

Bhootakash (Gravity / Time / Energy) gathers a force 5 worthy guardians to restore order to the streets of Peregrine Isle.

 

Mission Retrospective

  • Mission 1 (Arachnos rescue, Hollow Point) = 25 minutes with 4 teammates
  • Mission 2 (Carnies boss) = 28 minutes with 4 teammates
  • Mission 3 (5th Column boss, Maelstrom) = 22 minutes with 4 teammates
  • Mission 4 (Council boss) = 15 minutes with 4 teammates
  • Safeguard (Carnies, Malta, Arachnos, Critical Mass) = 41 minutes with 4 teammates

Total Time = 131 minutes

 

DEFCON 3 Stats:

1. Survivability

Mission

Personal Defeats

Time

Teammate

Survivability Rate

Survivability Index

 

1

1

25

4

0.04

0.25

 

2

0

28

4

0.00

0.00

 

3

0

22

4

0.00

0.00

 

4

0

15

4

0.00

0.00

 

Safeguard

0

41

4

0.00

0.00

 

Total à

1

131

 

0.01

0.05

ß AVG

 

2. Risk

Mission

Ally Defeats

Time

Teammate

Risk Rate

Risk Index

 

1

2

25

4

0.08

0.50

 

2

1

28

4

0.04

0.25

 

3

1

22

4

0.05

0.25

 

4

1

15

4

0.07

0.25

 

Safeguard

4

41

4

0.10

1.00

 

Total à

9

131

 

0.07

0.45

ß AVG

 

3. Lethality

Mission

Kills

Time

Teammate

Lethality Rate

Lethality Index

 

1

91

25

4

3.64

22.75

 

2

101

28

4

3.61

25.25

 

3

45

22

4

2.05

11.25

 

4

45

15

4

3.00

11.25

 

Safeguard

87

41

4

2.12

21.75

 

Total à

369

131

 

2.88

18.45

ß AVG

 

4. Threat

Personal Damage Output

Mission:

1

2

3

4

Safeguard

Attack Total:

Crushing Field

4034

3342

1351

1475

2731

12934

Impeded Swiftness

1831

1258

481

658

745

4973

Positron's Blast

1431

1051

726

340

1018

4565

Superior Will of the Controller

3160

2097

891

1641

2096

9884

Trap of the Hunter

1347

1527

522

513

1007

4917

Energy Torrent

6706

8680

3384

1863

7580

28213

Gravity Distortion

3344

4311

3057

1948

6309

18970

Apocalypse

1317

2130

1280

757

2987

8471

Lift

3362

5877

3664

2948

7254

23105

Power Blast

812

1315

1268

813

2580

6789

Propel

5699

8097

5635

4311

8286

32028

Time's Juncture (Ice Mistral's Torment)

2160

3123

1429

1059

2931

10701

Weaken Resolve (Shield Breaker)

641

224

203

30

382

1480

Cryonic Total Radial Judgement

15109

15015

11365

6474

21655

69618

Mission Total:

50952

58046

35256

24830

67562

236647

 

Pet Damage Output

Pet

1

2

3

4

Safeguard

Pet Total:

Energy Font (Distortion Field)

2720

4761

1095

746

2881

12204

Singularity

19792

16844

7758

9530

11322

65245

Storm Elemental

5843

6932

1880

3206

9616

27477

Tempest Elemental

14773

16540

2769

12726

19044

65852

Mission Total:

43129

45077

13501

26208

42863

170778

 

Combined Damage Output

Mission

DMG out

Time

Teammate

Threat Rate

Threat Index

 

1

94081

25

4

3763

23520

 

2

103122

28

4

3683

25781

 

3

48758

22

4

2216

12189

 

4

51038

15

4

3403

12760

 

Safeguard

110426

41

4

2693

27606

 

Total à

407425

131

 

3152

20371

ß AVG

 

5. Resilience

Type of Damage Taken

Mission:

1

2

3

4

Mayhem

Type Total

Cold

0

0

510

69

1575

2154

Energy

4083

342

261

101

791

5578

Fire

176

383

4278

1310

3113

9259

Lethal

306

33

1896

156

1832

4223

Negative Energy

0

187

232

3277

389

4084

Psionic

4655

5016

0

0

8450

18122

Smashing

318

151

490

74

1016

2048

Toxic

1972

0

327

0

0

2299

Mission Total:

11511

6112

7993

4986

17166

47768

 

Overall Damage Taken

Mission

DMG in

Time

Teammate

Resilience Rate

Resilience Index

 

1

11511

25

4

460

2878

 

2

6112

28

4

218

1528

 

3

7993

22

4

363

1998

 

4

4986

15

4

332

1247

 

Safeguard

17166

41

4

419

4291

 

Total à

47768

131

 

359

2388

ß AVG

 

Edited by Dark Current
Posted (edited)

For comparison, I present Marquis du Temps stats with Time Manipulation vs. the previous 2 defenders (Ampere Avenger and Skreaming Tree) with Electrical and Nature Affinity. From this data, it seems that this build with Time is superior in multiple ways to the previous 2 defender builds.
image.thumb.png.eb93c95e167db4e67e65254da42ed819.png

 

How much of that is due to Time Manipulation itself vs the defensive strategy of the build (massive -SPD and -RCH debuffery) remains to be seen. The controller data with the same sets could give insight into the answer if Bhootakash likewise shows the best results with her Time build.

 

image.png.bdc29041288cf020ddd9333f9f1470ae.pngimage.png.ef6db57e18f1f40cac6827d69ae81307.png

 

image.png.871247012786ed91a8ff94602706410a.pngimage.png.cdbd6aeddf905bc2104d9b7af085cdd0.png

 

image.png.5c6da1df4f6dc63498790d15cf482af5.pngimage.png.a2498a6ad4222b55c92c958852fa8981.png

 

image.png.3e8df9fe0c676a732ee53248b9b884d6.pngimage.png.2f778a0929abe4011f803a8c5c7f326c.png

 

image.png.8109c6b48267ac09f2ec4d51888d0d3c.pngimage.png.aa9acabd03db22b2252f4e96cefb0d2a.png

 

image.png.c88b97e9486ae5c670f795f6d4106392.png

Edited by Dark Current
Posted

Bhootakash vs her controller peers:

image.thumb.png.a1ad8cde2d47202c534ea42326ca03ad.png

 

image.png.582e772f07f1f2fe99beddece3bba517.png                image.png.e9710327f5b829b5abbc3bfe8cdc0ac3.png

 

image.png.476f788d7e64e75b9377f0ac1c73d649.png                image.png.5dfab12bfd48330326604f28c41c2126.png

 

image.png.6631370a22f5d3b9cec665580891cd96.png                image.png.4f4fe4438c8be937c814b7369ab5628a.png

 

 

 

image.png.8685157f379bf3889909644d87ea93fa.png                image.png.ecd8e42027591c27fb830e8503e91cff.png

 

image.png.392d2a172125435ea6b72052c37bbe31.png                image.png.7638c7f403aec7a17c941e40bccd42c0.png

 

image.png.b7e33051b644344ee0ea1276a36877fb.png                image.png.fc655d794799cc7cdce55abf73cd9e0c.png

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